German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[The Cane]

It's funny reading the sermons and pontificating from a few wise guys about the perils of marriage. I am not married but I wouldn't presume to lecture anyone which way is better to go. I don't see the married guys lecturing the unmarried guys to get hitched. But the unmarried guys (well, a couple of them mainly) constantly lecture the married folk about how smart they are to have stayed single. I wonder if these guys have a chip on their shoulders and feeling insecure.

I'm not here to pontificate to anybody about anything. It's to each his own and do what works for you. That's what I do, and that's what everybody else should do too. What I find funny is how some talk about the forum as a place to share info and ideas. But then when that's what goes down, they get upset when somebody has a thought, idea, or passion different from their own. People need to know how to agree to disagree without getting upset about somebody else's views that may differ from their own, even if those views are stated strongly. Be confident in you and what you do and believe in, and let the rest roll off of your back!

[Mongerer88]

Then in a follow up reply, I brought up paid monger sex (which Mongerer88 and others said is generally safe in the US), and then I also brought up the sugar daddy stuff..

This is a good article from USA Sex worker to other potential sex workers that really describes how it works in the USA When the system is safe for the customer and the sex worker.

https://jezebel.com/5955918/some-thi...e-a-prostitute

It wouldn't work for most guys who like the FKKs.

It is expensive, there is little or no anonymity, and there is definitely no club atmosphere where a guy meets many women and selects a few. Decisions are largely made by reading reviews and learning whose reviews you can trust.

Essentially, the key is for her to make sure the customer is not a cop or a dangerous person (which is done through screening that often includes his presence on review boards, and references), and of course for him to make sure she isn't a cop or a dangerous rip-off flake, which is most often done by reading her reviews, seeing who else the reviewer has reviewed, and seeing how she advertises. If she isn't a cop, and the customer isn't a cop, and if they are fornicating in a private place such as a hotel room or incall apartment that has no risk of police intrusion, there is really no risk.

Not exactly an ideal system, and of course most stray from it. But if you review arrests and busts, they almost never involve independent escorts who screen or a very small agency operating in a local area that screens and doesn't go overboard on publicly advertising. But for those that want to feel completely safe, nothing is safer than an expensive independent escort who does a lot of screening. The cops in the USA Leave those ladies alone.

[McAdonis]

Per Optimist comment and other available data, cost of living and general income levels in Romania are low. Hence, even if they saved just 30 grand in 18 months, they can use it as a base and build some regular life around it.

Probably half of Romanians only use cash. Partly this is due to tax avoidance. Bank accounts, pensions, insurances, tax-sheltered retirement accounts, stocks or bonds, or most things that compound in interest (or combat inflation) are almost non-existent.

I suppose Bitcoin is becoming a viable investment option (that both earns yield and is difficult for tax authorities to track). I would argue that is easier and safer to hide and transfer than say a safe filled with cash.

Romanians seem to have a different mindset when it comes to saving. Its hard for someone from a stable rich western nation to judge. Triple digit inflation back in the 1990's, high-levels of corruption and unemployment is just not our reality. Perhaps their mindset is to spend their money and enjoy it before the next time their government fails them. Also, we are talking about emigrants here. Disproportionate spending on visible goods and "conspicuous consumerism" tend to be higher in these communities.

[The Cane]

Sugar daddies avoid speaking about or handing over money. They prefer to give the sugar baby a credit card in her name, because otherwise it ruins the illusion. In an FKK setting, a monger is literally hovering at the money lockers watching his WG get paid by another customer. FKK customers know they are interacting with a prostitute, as much as they try to forget.

I don't ever try to forget LOLOLOL! I like the open, transparent nature of it all. No bullshitting yourself or anybody else! It is what it is, and that's what I like about it. And don't anybody forget that ha!

[Rogue Nation]

Making a lot of money leads to spending a lot of money for many girls. Taxi instead of public transportation, hotel instead of apartment, restaurant instead of home cooking, Prada instead of H&M.

There's "boyfriends" who take their girls out shopping to make them spend their money. So they have to stay and work. That's the money left after they paid their daily share of 300-500€. A strategy that works out for many guys.

[Akibono]

Don't know. You are the expert. However, whether they make 50 K or 100 K or just 25 K (after entry fee and living expenses and lover boy cut) -- whatever that amount is -- the point is, they seem to fritter it away. Per Optimist comment and other available data, cost of living and general income levels in Romania are low. Hence, even if they saved just 30 grand in 18 months, they can use it as a base and build some regular life around it. But so many of them run out of that money and back to selling T&A.

When you are in a situation where there are many poor people around you, they are constantly asking you for help. It is hard to turn away the various family members in need of help. We do not appreciate the vagaries of a poor life in a country without social services.

[Member #4581]

How many girls make 100 k per year after having paid entrance and living expenses? And how many of those are keeping the money they make?

Don't know. You are the expert. However, whether they make 50 K or 100 K or just 25 K (after entry fee and living expenses and lover boy cut) -- whatever that amount is -- the point is, they seem to fritter it away. Per Optimist comment and other available data, cost of living and general income levels in Romania are low. Hence, even if they saved just 30 grand in 18 months, they can use it as a base and build some regular life around it. But so many of them run out of that money and back to selling T&A.

[Smoke Light]

While "sugar daddy" system vs. "if you have game you can score" vs. "FKK" system often come up in the same dialog, the fundamental differences between them take root in the legality of each model.

"Sugar daddy" presents itself as a "relationship" system. It quickly stockpiles attributes like credit cards, expensive gifts (jewelry, cars), apartment rent payments, paid education expenses, and so on. Because relationships are legal, and prostitution is not.

"If you have game you can score" is a "relationship" by its definition. Legal with potential further allegations of sexual abuse, "MeToo" posts and more. Good luck with your game, gentlemen!

The FKK however, or any brothel, or a chica bar, are "sex fantasy" systems. Real physical non-virtual sex, because prostitution is legal. Never in my life a web site and jumping hoops to meet a girl can compete with a cohort of WGs sitting on the opposite couch in an FKK club. It's a land of pleasure incompatible with any relationship-based systems.

[Member #4581]

Don't give me too much credit. You used the word "game". So I wasn't sure if you were talking about civilian dating scene or a sugar daddy sponsoring a sugar baby.

You are right. My original comment, which was a response to someone else who was lamenting that sex in the US had become too hard to obtain and too dangerous to seek (due to the various reasons, including the feminist issues he referenced) -- I said that is not quite accurate; sex between consenting adults does happen after hooking up in bars, clubs, various other places. The "if you have game you can score" comment is related to that topic.

Then in a follow up reply, I brought up paid monger sex (which Mongerer88 and others said is generally safe in the US), and then I also brought up the sugar daddy stuff.

IMO those NYT and Atlantic mag articles should be read as providing some idea and outline but I am not sure we should read them literally. The thing to understand is that people try to get around the taboo and legal issues related to prostitution in the US through a variety of loopholes. For me, the takeaway was that pay for sex is not illegal if the sex is combined with something else -- companionship, a small unrelated service... you are paying for the something else part and the sex is incidental. When you can't have open FKK systems as in Germany, people get creative. But other than that, I would n't read too much else. If you take a quick look at the girls in a few of those sites, they are all over the place looking for a quick casual encounter to monthly allowance to a shopping spree or two or a travel to some nice location and what not. The only difference between these sites and a site like match.com is that girls understand sex is on the table within first few meetings and that there is explicit money for sex exchange.

[Rogue Nation]

Many of these girls have lousy spending habits. Some of them make 50 to 100 grand a year working in the clubs, after entry fee and living expenses in Germany. One would think that's plenty enough if they save it wisely and spend carefully back home; but they splurge on useless things and quickly run out of cash and back in the market selling tits and ass.

How many girls make 100 k€ per year after having paid entrance and living expenses? And how many of those are keeping the money they make?

[McAdonis]

Thanks McA. He is quite accurate in his read of my intent and my comment.

Don't give me too much credit. You used the word "game". So I wasn't sure if you were talking about civilian dating scene or a sugar daddy sponsoring a sugar baby.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/12/ma...daddies-t.html

But this Atlantic piece is more recent.

https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...cation/379533/

Remember how all the FKK girls claim to be studying in some university? Per this Atlantic article, and Atlantic is a pretty reputed publication, these are girls from NYU Colombia, and Princeton! Princeton for gods sake. And the amounts mentioned are not huge, ranging from a few hundreds to a few thousands. Many of the high rollers on this site are spending far more, I bet. But then some are the kind that BadIn talked of - men with several millions in bank. One guy just gave his credit card to his sugar baby. Hmm. That needs a lot of guts.

Reading your articles, I come way with this: the sugar daddy / sugar baby dynamic has less overlap with the FKK customer / WG dynamic than I previously thought.

One sugar baby noted that most of the men she met on the dating site were business executives, whereas FKK customers can come from almost any walk of life.

The article paints the picture that these rich men are looking for intellect, not a skinny, white, blonde sorority bimbo. Many men who attend FKK want this exclusively.

The author says the sugar daddies want sugar babies that understand what they do at work and can converse on topics that the sugar daddy finds interesting. In that sense, it makes, the illusion more real for the sugar daddy. I don't think most FKK customers want a smart girl to connect with intellectually. These WGs are street-smart and emotionally-smart, but not always book smart. Often, their English allows them to communicate, but usually their proficiency is not at the level that they are able to understand the nuances of say American or British humor. You certainly aren't going to ask the girl for advice on how to manage your investment portfolio.

Sugar daddies avoid speaking about or handing over money. They prefer to give the sugar baby a credit card in her name, because otherwise it ruins the illusion. In an FKK setting, a monger is literally hovering at the money lockers watching his WG get paid by another customer. FKK customers know they are interacting with a prostitute, as much as they try to forget.

[MyTwoInches]

It's funny reading the sermons and pontificating from a few wise guys about the perils of marriage. I am not married but I wouldn't presume to lecture anyone which way is better to go. I don't see the married guys lecturing the unmarried guys to get hitched. But the unmarried guys (well, a couple of them mainly) constantly lecture the married folk about how smart they are to have stayed single. I wonder if these guys have a chip on their shoulders and feeling insecure.

[Member #4581]

Many of these girls have lousy spending habits. Some of them make 50 to 100 grand a year working in the clubs, after entry fee and living expenses in Germany. One would think that's plenty enough if they save it wisely and spend carefully back home; but they splurge on useless things and quickly run out of cash and back in the market selling tits and ass.

[Pistons]

But they have to BBBJ during interview with employer LOL.

Once a tute, always be a tute one way or another, it is addictive job.

I hear, I will quit in x years, they never quit till they cannot do it anymore physically.

I always find same girls years after years claiming this is their last year, 90% or more, they never fully quit the job.

Every girl is a tute weayher she takes money directly or indirectly. And all guys are even more tutes than girls.

The reason why men and society don't care so much if men are tutes is that we use more our left half of the brain (logic) while women use heir right half more (emotions and feelings). So the logical thing would be two fuck around a lot to see who would be your best partner and experience different things. While the emotional thing would be to listen to what others deem to be good and nice behavior.

And many men in this world is sickening protectionist regarding siblings, cousins, women of their own country, race etc etc. And women listen because they are emotional.

[Mr Ho]

I care about the girls & their tough family situations at home. I really feel sorry for these women. It depends, but I've sent many poor girls western union.

Wow respect, I mean once I become regular, sometimes I begin to not have feeling, but I develop some kind of care, but then my conscious kicks in tells me not to as it can be dangerous that I get deeply involved than maybe I am supposed to.

However, furthest I went is to take them in my hotel room few times, which cost me ah. Much more than in FKK, maybe it was her trick LOL.