SC Sauna Club Living Room - Kaarst

[Kosher Kowboy]

Yes basically. A man doing an illegal action is the responsible one. The club is not responsible.
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Optimist,

I would like to sincerely apologize to you. Under false pretenses you met my younger brother. I have never been to Germany. The guy you met likes to go to Dietzenbach for the sole purpose of fucking the most hideous god awful ugliest women with the filthiest most disgusting over worked pussies Germany has ever seen. I have told him to try other places and pay up for attractive girls but he simply will not listen to me. He will only ride the S2 ' Creampie Express' not because he creampies in Dietzenbach in fact he always wears a condom even for handjobs!!

I am flat broke, my brother makes all the money. I call it the Creampie Express because my brother found a bakery in Dietzenbach that makes these great cream filled desserts. I just enjoy writing, one day I too hope to go to Germany for covered sex like my brother.

[Smoke Light]

Typically during razzia music stops and all "normal" club sounds disappear. That might be a signal for you to become vigilant and expect unwelcome visitors when in a room with a girl.

Any attempts by police to enter without warning I consider a harassment of the sex worker. If no established probable cause of criminal activity exist, the government should not be entering private rooms without timely knocking on the door and substantial verbal warning before entering.

[Pistons]

however you also posted the key word, the word that makes IMO all this ISG paranoia unwarranted.

All we ever do in life are assumptions. Assumptions that what we see and hear is not just a part of our own mind. Assumptions that numbers and words we are being given are not forged. Assumptions that we are not just playing a part in an intergalactic reality drama broadcasted live to 200 trillion people across the galaxy.

[Optimist]

If illegal acts happen, they are still illegal regardless of how many reasonable measures are implemented by the club owner; no?? The fact that the club took reasonable measures to enforce the law **might** count in its favor if it ever comes to a trial and penalties. But unclear why that would change the facts, i.e. an illegal act, or many illegal acts were committed on the premises (assuming they happened)

Yes basically. A man doing an illegal action is the responsible one. The club is not responsible.

The club would be presumably committing separate offence if it facilitates such offence.

[Member #4581]

Optimist: if illegal acts happen, they are still illegal regardless of how many reasonable measures are implemented by the club owner; no?? The fact that the club took reasonable measures to enforce the law **might** count in its favor if it ever comes to a trial and penalties. But unclear why that would change the facts of the case, i.e. an illegal act, or many illegal acts were committed on the premises (assuming they happened)

I agree with Kosher about reports on a fantasy board as he puts it. I and others have made the same argument many times. Members can make up stories, embellish them, completely falsify them, make up reports about visits and sessions that only happened in their wet dreams, assume a hundred fake avataars and create a thousand penthouse letters. Even if the all upstanding and honest members of this forum adhered to the "shut up and keep quiet" policies, there is no guarantee whatsoever that others won't post what they may post.

[Kosher Kowboy]

People here wrote doing AO sex in Dietz. How is that complying with the law, assuming what the members reported is truthful.

I think you make a good point however you also posted the key word, the word that makes IMO all this ISG paranoia unwarranted.

The word ' assuming' ; facts to make a case need hard evidence, they can not go off assuming.

Dietzenbach club is taking all reasonable measures to ensure it complies with the law. So I think RN is correct about that.

As you say, the raid at LR proves nothing, except that Police are aware of the law, and it seems they were on that occasion not trying to enforce its condom requirements

I think both you and RN are very correct about Dietz complying. Most clubs probably are.

I believe it is not the responsibility (I stand corrected if I am wrong) of the club (Ao or not) to enforce the condom usage laws but do need to make it aware to the girls and the men what the law is and signs are posted in the clubs including Dietz. Big ones. They are in compliance. They may have a duty to report if they are told of an illegal act. If BBBJ and AO are going on in the clubs our posts on a ' fantasy board' mean diddly squat. Who is to say Member XYZ was even in Germany? Perhaps Poster XYZ is a guy at home simply writing fantasy and is in reality in a wheelchair unable to fuck? Perhaps I have never been to Germany and all my stories are fabricated? Where is the proof?

To think the police are not aware of AO or BBBJ taking place is naive, they know. I see it live at some clubs in the hot tubs. Others have seen it happen in kinos. Are the police stupid? I think not. They can see it live in hot tubs too if they wanted especially if I can as a infrequent visitor. To think the police need the internet or the ISG to build a case or find out is silly. They already know and can find out without our posts which are at the end of the day ' unproven acts ' on a ' fantasy board' what is posted is not fact, fact can only be found out in person. How many men have been busted in 6 months or locked up? If they wanted to the accrued fines since July 1 (or major lack of) could be massive and the jails full. They are not. Their payday is coming January 1. They will have their money. They will have records of who the girls are and where they live. They will have the control they want and the funds they want. They do not give a shit about AO or BBBJ although they might make a token bust in the new year (hopefully not I) somehow to show they mean business on the registration / tax part and to install fear in men but I would bet if they do it will have nothing to do with anything ever posted on the ISG.

The club is also required to make sure the girls who work there are legal as are all clubs. This they can and will enforce and the clubs need to as well ensure their girls are legal and registered. That is what this raid was about, storm in to a smaller FKK (lower costs than raiding a massive club) and send a loud warning shot across the bow to the girls. It worked. The female cop who said ' use a condom' was there for the raid on registration not to bust BBBJ recipients. How many men were charged or hauled in? To the best of my knowledge all girls that will be at Dietz and other clubs who will be working are complying and getting registered.

So how is Dietzenbach itself not in compliance?

I think people are paranoid about nothing and should be more worried about girls not returning, girls under 21 maybe not returning, quality of girls in the FKK's, perhaps a new batch of unseasoned girls will fill up the spots of the departed? Perhaps someone's ATF will depart? Will there be enough pussy for all the men still?

Guys IMO need be worried about the upcoming Hurricane to hit January 1, not the hurricane that passed 6 months ago and where is it now? IMO long gone. The paranoia remains.

All just my opinion, perhaps my fantasy, like our posts.

[Pistons]

As far as the proposal you make at the bottom. Sorry, can't accept, but if you feel strongly about it you should go ahead with it yourself. Solicitation is illegal where I live. Writing about BBBJ on ISG is not. In fact, discouraging other members from writing about BBBJ is against forum rules. In effect, by arguing that people should stop writing, you are flouting one forum rule here and when I object then you are asking me to commit another illegal act in my state. Not very logical.

That is not at all true. My proposal was about you standing at a shopping mall with signs advocation the liberalization of prostitution. It is clearly not the same as soliciting in a society where it is illegal. I didn't say you should have sex with someone at the shopping mall. Nor did I say you should have sex with the poster.

And this is not a discouragement of posters on ISG. Nor was the former post I made half a year ago that gave me a red dot. They are liberal thoughts on self censorship. You can disagree if you like, but censoring my liberal thought is just as much censorship as self censorship is. Then again, the world is unfortunately not an utopia, and if we like to have room sessions abruptly interrupted in the middle of sexual acts like at LR, then sure, its got absolutely nothing to do with postings on the world biggest prostitution forum. Absolutely. Because cops don't know about this hidden part of the internet.

[Rogue Nation]

Writing about BBBJ on ISG is not.

Nobody said it's illegal. Maybe it's not very wise to do so. Most members here think it is wise to report about BBBJ and it will not have any effect. Maybe yes. Maybe no.

[Optimist]

People here wrote doing AO sex in Dietz. How is that complying with the law, assuming what the members reported is truthful.

I hope I can make a helpful post

Dietzenbach club is taking all reasonable measures to ensure it complies with the law. So I think RN is correct about that.

If ISG members write about doing acts that are illegal then that is, I think not illegal.

The on going debate about the effect of such reporting has been continuous and ISG members are quite rightly ( for clarity here, I am saying members according to the forum rules are allowed to post as they wish on the relevant activities) making their own decisions on this

(My judgement is that reporting can only be deleterious, but others will say I am suffering an excess of extreme caution)

Whether what we write makes even the tiniest difference or not, only the long passage of time will tell. As you say, the raid at LR proves nothing, except that Police are aware of the law, and it seems they were on that occasion not trying to enforce its condom requirements

Cheers

[Optimist]

Ahhh yes. Government intervention for public good. I love big government. They can solve all our problems, right comrade? Intervention is intervention. Stay the fuck out of our lives!

Hi. You refer in replying to me as "comrade", apparently as an insult. Maybe you were erroneously thinking I was supporting the government. Just to be clear, as I have previously written many times, I am extremely concerned about the encroaching power of governments in the name (they say) of the public good. As another member, Horny Harry, frequently pointed out, look at Sweden and its path, now proposing criminalising its citizens who buy sex abroad and establishing a legal presumption of guilt of anyone accused of sexual harassment or [CodeWord123]

I was merely trying to say the German state was becoming more interventionist and describe what it saw as its rationale.

I hope that clears up any misunderstanding

[Member #4581]

Different states. Hessen vs NRW. Plus Dietzenbach is officially complying with the law, GT and LR are not.

People here wrote doing AO sex in Dietz. How is that complying with the law, assuming what the members reported is truthful.

[Member #4581]

Sorry Pistons, you covered so many topics there that I am afraid it is impossible to have any meaningful debate. If you want to debate your philosophy on every topic from war to sex to religion to politics and polygamy dadada , it is easier to do one at a time.

As far as the proposal you make at the bottom. Sorry, can't accept, but if you feel strongly about it you should go ahead with it yourself. Solicitation is illegal where I live. Writing about BBBJ on ISG is not. In fact, discouraging other members from writing about BBBJ is against forum rules. In effect, by arguing that people should stop writing, you are flouting one forum rule here and when I object then you are asking me to commit another illegal act in my state. Not very logical.

[NNC1701]

Different states. Hessen vs NRW. Plus Dietzenbach is officially complying with the law, GT and LR are not.

In which way are LR and GT not complying with the law?

[ExpatLover]

Yes, the police read the reports here and decided to raid. Very direct cause and effect link. Definitely.

Why not raid Dietz? There are dozens of reports of AO sex there.

It's been almost 6 months. There must have been at least a few million blow jobs given in all this time in all the clubs of Germany.

Even if only half were w / o condom, that's still in milllions. How many men were booked so far?

Sorry to repeat it again but the target of the police in not the condom, they don t care about it, this is just the cosmetic aspect of the law the real target is to reduce the offer and especially to force the girls to quit the scene and I believe it is already starting to work at least in the big club I am feeling that more and more girls are veteran prostitute moving from one club to another or country to another but I am not seeing many new young girls joining the clubs in the last 3 weeks. Let us see what will happen in January when many girls will have to come back to earn money now it is Christmas time.

[Pistons]

What I can never understand is the rush to tie any incident anywhere to the comments on ISG and trying to shut down freedom of writing. It's a bit funny for people to be lamenting about Gestapo tactics and then demand that members should shut up and stop writing

Again I am referred to as 'people'. Well then, the two of us will make this proposal:

Nothing is better than full freedom. Even allowing all sex acts. (Well duh). But the world is a place where you have to navigate other idiots with different meanings. Sometimes in higher up positions or who has lobbied the world into certain laws. And so the world turns into a police state because people feel they need help from society (ugly single people who don't like men or women to pay for sex). Or as I believe is the main reason: religions trying to win wars, so they make marriage important while we all are more or less polygamous. In such a world of corruption, believing that full freedom of speech is a 100% certainty in every situation is at worst idiocy and at best naive. Or if you disagree, I would advocate you to stand out in your local shopping mall with signs saying 'I love prostitutes', 'BJ for 50 $?' and 'the best form of international aid'.