Kyiv

[Kozerog]

I think and analyze while learning by process of trial and error. Price is not that high and practice is the best criteria for logical assumptions.

Haggling about money with a potential mistress is a very bad start to things, makes the man look stupid and / or cheap, which is why I'm trying to think everything out in advance. Probably going to go with 2000 hrv per meeting, 2 meetings per week, or over 16000 per month. That is a respectable enough offer for an LTR, but not so high as to intimidate woman or make me look like a foolish foreigner, since even well-off locals can offer that amount. 2000 is below the point at which I would start to feel uncomfortable, so leaves room for occasional bonuses or other expenses. Better to under-promise and over-deliver than the opposite.

[PhotoSlider]

How can I get to this Chernigov by public transport from Kiev city center?

I can get to Kyiv bus station.

Try maps. google.com.

Directions from Kyiv to "Myru Ave, 35, Chernihiv, Chernihivs'ka oblast, Ukraine, 14000".

There are trains, taking about 4 hours.

Taxi is 2 hours. Bus is 4-6 USD and under 3 hours:

https://infobus.eu/en/bus/route/from-kiev-to-chernihiv

Respected Forum veterans advise to have the girl come to you in Kiev for multiple reasons.

You may have an adventure of your life In Chernihiv with young Juliette spending few wonderful days for a total of 2000-3000 UAH. Miracles still happen, and there is a chance you'll be the happiest man alive.

Or she may not show up as previously agreed. Risk vs. Reward.

I would cancel apartment reservation and have her travel to you. Unless you are in Ukraine for a month or longer and enjoy exploring less developed corners.

[Deer1234]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your information about how to get to Chernigov.

I booked an apartment in Chernigov following a suggestion from a girl.

The address is:

Prospekt Mira 35.

Chernigov,14000.

You wrote there are two towns of confusing names. How can I get to this Chernigov by public transport from Kiev city center?

I can get to Kyiv bus station.

You wrote Chernigov. It's not so far away from Kiev. About 2 hours in the bus. Not 4 hours. I did the tour 2 years ago. The bus starts near to the trainstation in the center. But there is another stop at the Lisova Metro. In the east of Kiew and at the other side of the river. That makes the trip much shorter and more comfortable.

If somebody told you about 4 hours in the bus, it must be a different city. Or you asked for the wrong bus. Anyway you must be sure that it's Chernigov und not Chernivtsi. Even booking.com made this mistake. When I tried to book my accomodation, I found some Chernivtsi Hotels in Chernigov. Guess they already fixed this problem )))

About the apartment: There are several apartment agencies that operate as a "mini-hotel". With concierge. Theatre Boutique Apart Hotel for example. But also Partner Guest House has a lot of apartments in Shota Rustavelli 44 with janitor.

[Deer1234]

Good word!

Not sure if it's brave or assumed anyway. Guess they heard it all. In those immigration forms they give on the airplane I state: "Pleasure".

[PhotoSlider]

The music and dance social activities are much too important to risk causing scandal, so I've decided to leave those girls alone. I sometimes talk to women over age 50 in the group, but I definitely don't any sort of affair with them plus they are the biggest gossipers of all.

If their gossiping concerns you, then they will gossip feeding off of you. But you already simplified the whole thing by making a good decision to isolate and compartmentalize.

As for your suggestions about flirting, one thing I did learn from that idiotic PUA forum is the term "congruency", meaning don't pretend to be something you are not, and that's what would happen if I tried to flirt. No one loves unsmiling old men like me, but we are respected. And unsmiling old men with money are recognized as valuable allies.

Sorry for not explaining my thoughts clear enough. I certainly meant her flirting with you, not vice versa. If she doesn't flirt then why bother? There's enough fish in the pond. Whose next please?

Also, I don't really want a young women loving me or hanging around me too much. My independent escort was no trouble at all. Always arrived exactly on time, always same preparatory routine including turning smartphone off, quiet and easy to get along with as a cat, always gets up to leave after exactly 3 hours. She's from a village and evidently was strictly brought up. However, I would like some variety, either from agencies or a non-pro mistress.

With the latter you will learn if they are worth keeping emotions wise. Keeping it simple with the former is undeniable advantage.

So now I need to think of what to pay a non-pro. My general rules for any long-term recurring business dealings: don't pay more than I comfortable with or I'll feel resentment; don't try to drive price down too far or other person will feel resentment and I'll also be angry at them for caving in too much and making me feel like a cheapskate; be systematic and logical about prices. If I pay the pro 4000 hrv for 3 hours, then either 2000 or 3000 for the non-pro sponsorette makes sense. 2000 implies over 16000/ month assuming 2 meetings / week, which is generous given that semi-skilled wages (receptionist, etc) are like 6000 hrv. Indeed, even 1000 per 3 hour meeting or 8000/ month would be plenty. But it's hard for me to justify driving a hard bargain given my income. 3000 guarantees that every normal girl will be happy with my offer, whereas top-tier girls might balk at 1000 or even 2000. Girls with 6 inch heels and mouth swelled up like a monkey's anus might scorn even 3000, but I want to be scorned by those women. If fact, driving off those types might be a reason for going with 2000 versus 3000. Have to think more about this.

I think and analyze while learning by process of trial and error. Price is not that high and practice is the best criteria for logical assumptions.

[Kozerog]

Does anyone has any experience with ukrgo? Specially with the ads that states "not a brothel".

You never know what you are getting there. Photos often fake or out-of-date or heavily photoshopped or taken from an angle to hide flaws and excess weight. Few of the girls / women speak english. But some real gems in this bargain bin. Specify the link and let us look it over.

[Kozerog]

First you need to decide for yourself how much longer do you expect to participate in this social activity? Any returns during your future visits to Ukraine? What happens if, in the unlikely event, some of your dear friends turn a cold shoulder, - would it bother you? If yes, than continue outside of this circle.

The music and dance social activities are much too important to risk causing scandal, so I've decided to leave those girls alone. I sometimes talk to women over age 50 in the group, but I definitely don't any sort of affair with them plus they are the biggest gossipers of all.

As for your suggestions about flirting, one thing I did learn from that idiotic PUA forum is the term "congruency", meaning don't pretend to be something you are not, and that's what would happen if I tried to flirt. No one loves unsmiling old men like me, but we are respected. And unsmiling old men with money are recognized as valuable allies.

Also, I don't really want a young women loving me or hanging around me too much. My independent escort was no trouble at all. Always arrived exactly on time, always same preparatory routine including turning smartphone off, quiet and easy to get along with as a cat, always gets up to leave after exactly 3 hours. She's from a village and evidently was strictly brought up. However, I would like some variety, either from agencies or a non-pro mistress.

So now I need to think of what to pay a non-pro. My general rules for any long-term recurring business dealings: don't pay more than I comfortable with or I'll feel resentment; don't try to drive price down too far or other person will feel resentment and I'll also be angry at them for caving in too much and making me feel like a cheapskate; be systematic and logical about prices. If I pay the pro 4000 hrv for 3 hours, then either 2000 or 3000 for the non-pro sponsorette makes sense. 2000 implies over 16000/ month assuming 2 meetings / week, which is generous given that semi-skilled wages (receptionist, etc) are like 6000 hrv. Indeed, even 1000 per 3 hour meeting or 8000/ month would be plenty. But it's hard for me to justify driving a hard bargain given my income. 3000 guarantees that every normal girl will be happy with my offer, whereas top-tier girls might balk at 1000 or even 2000. Girls with 6 inch heels and mouth swelled up like a monkey's anus might scorn even 3000, but I want to be scorned by those women. If fact, driving off those types might be a reason for going with 2000 versus 3000. Have to think more about this.

[Kozerog]

Thank you for touching this matter. It is worth to discuss. I prefer Cialis for a few reasons. I saw both original Cialis and Tadalafil generics in Ukrainian drag stores. Also, I heard that some medications in Ukraine could be low quality or even fake. I am not sure whether it is true or not since I always care my medications purchased in Canada. However, Cialis is over-the-counter in Ukraine. Sometimes I have no time for a doctor appointment just to get prescription. Buying Cialis in Ukraine easy.

My questions:

- Can I be confident in the quality of branded Cialis or Tadalafil generics purchased in Kiev?

- What Apteka chains should I avoid when buying Cialis or Tadalafil generics?

I don't know what Cialis / taladafil costs, but genuine Viagra / generic sildenafil costs are like $15 / $1 in Ukraine. $1 is also what a liter of milk costs retail. Does it make sense for a grocery store to sell watered down milk rather than the real thing so as to save 50 cents wholesale cost of that liter of milk? No, because extra profit is trivial and they lose repeat customers since watered down milk is so easy to detect. Fake sildenafil is also easy to detect for those of us who've used it extensively. Also, those generics are themselves branded (potenciale, etc) and the brand owner has an incentive to put real sildenafil and not sugar pills in the box. I would indeed be suspicious that genuine Cialis or Viagra sold in Ukraine might actually be generic in counterfeit packaging, though this is just speculating.

Counterfeiting occurs when the genuine article has a huge profit margin versus generic which looks / feels / works identical. Examples, Rolex watches, Hermes handbags, all fiat currencies. Nobody counterfeits $5 watches and handbags from the discount store or ordinary writing paper because it's not worthwhile, assuming seller has an established storefront and so depends on repeat customers. Buying a huge quantity of $5 watches, etc as a one-time transaction (going out of business auction, etc) is another story.

[TheDriller]

Does anyone has any experience with ukrgo? Specially with the ads that states "not a brothel".

[Jymondor]

I've been reading the forum back to Feb 2014 (page 304 as of right now) or 4 years ago and the topic of Viagra / sildenafil came up a few times but there was never a definitive discussion, which is why I am adding this report now.

Thank you for touching this matter. It is worth to discuss. I prefer Cialis for a few reasons. I saw both original Cialis and Tadalafil generics in Ukrainian drag stores. Also, I heard that some medications in Ukraine could be low quality or even fake. I am not sure whether it is true or not since I always care my medications purchased in Canada. However, Cialis is over-the-counter in Ukraine. Sometimes I have no time for a doctor appointment just to get prescription. Buying Cialis in Ukraine easy.

My questions:

- Can I be confident in the quality of branded Cialis or Tadalafil generics purchased in Kiev?

- What Apteka chains should I avoid when buying Cialis or Tadalafil generics?

[PhotoSlider]

I also have a social activity (involving music performance) that I participate in while in Kiev that puts me in contact with young women, and lots of them send hints that they are interested in me, but I'm a little nervous about that. First, I feel like a proverbial dirty old man sex tourist trying to arrange a date with a civilian girl 40 years younger. Second, assuming there ever was a date, I'd feel even more embarrassed bringing up subject of sex for money, even in a roundabout way ("you know it's normal for older men to give gifts to girls they go with, otherwise people would think the man a cheapskate and the girl a fool if he didn't give anything, but of course I don't want to offend anyone by such gifts. " Third, if things don't work out, I've crapped where I eat. Even if things do work out, there might be gossip in the group unless I am careful never to be seen in public with the girl. Fourth, my Russian wasn't at B2 level (fully conversational) until recently. Fifth, I was busy with the agency and independent professionals so really didn't have mental energy for dealing with semi-pros as well during previous visits. I'm reading this ISG forum now for hints on how to deal with situations like this. There are some PUA forums with (mostly idiotic) advice on how to "game" younger Ukrainian women when you're a younger man yourself, but not many sites giving advice for older men who want to be sponsors

Well, the best part is that many young women in Ukraine do not mind such a contact at all as long as it's mutually rewarding. Due to already mentioned lack of acceptable candidates for sponsorship Ukrainian society is much more tolerant. Showing up at the restaurant in Zurich or Vienna with a lady even 25-20 years younger is almost a taboo. I didn't reach 40 yo difference yet, but getting there. Some say that their grandmothers are only couple years older than me already) and strolling around with those "granddaughters" doesn't turn any heads in Kiev, except for envious wives of visiting tourists and expats, scared to death that their days are numbered.

First you need to decide for yourself how much longer do you expect to participate in this social activity? Any returns during your future visits to Ukraine? What happens if, in the unlikely event, some of your dear friends turn a cold shoulder, - would it bother you? If yes, than continue outside of this circle. You achieved sufficient success that way. If overcoming your sense of age is insurmountable, then go with those independent professionals, they might be far better for creating the illusion of happiness and joy.

I would not stop though and focus on the girl I want to have, ignoring others just like everybody else in Kiev. This is social activity, this is not your permanent job. Forget about the age difference and guilt, it never occurs to me while admiring new or old girlfriends. Be honest to yourself first of all, didn't you sign up for that salsa to find ladies? For me anywhere is hunting grounds and open season, even if I am already with one of the girls.

If the dancing partner that you fancy sends unambiguous signals, ask her out for a closer activity, something that you can do one-on-one, to feel her out. Ask her to teach you Ukrainian language. It is beautiful. Let her explain in Ukrainian how to ask the lady out for a date. Possibilities are endless. I ask to teach me different parts of female anatomy. Offer to pay for classes at some neutral territory at first. I would do it at my residence and see her reaction.

That allows to see if she means business or simply plays with you just because she is young and subconsciously wants attention from anybody of the opposite sex. It is to be decided who seduces who).

Do not offer sex for money, unless she starts this conversation. Be a gentleman, treat the lady properly, she'll pay you back and more. Let it flow, but do not let her abuse it. Beware that often even serious flirting doesn't go beyond couple expensive dinners, and at the point of no return she may decline your advances. That is why semi-pros and student girls on mamba are much easier to deal with.

What gives you more pleasure? Spending time with her outside of the bedroom, learning more about each other, winning her heart and soul slowly, or immediate access to the ultimate prize? Is it time, or proverbial bang for the buck? Do you want more girls of certain rating within each day and allocated budget or you want a relationship? I do both interchangeably. 2-3 days at a time for an interesting partner is probably my limit. And I like them waking up in my bedroom, having breakfast together, while she is in my t-shirt, morning kiss and first tender hug. I like a quickie with a new fresh peasant girl running out of my door in 1 hour just as much.

Remove your own mental barriers, sky is the limit. Think of it as a rehearsal, and if it doesn't work out then there are so many options to compensate.

[AntonySun1996]

Hi gents,

How are you? I hope you are doing well.

I just filmed my first ever AV in my lifetime with my Ukrainian girl and I feel awesome. I was recording with my phone when having sex with her and she was totally fine with that except was a bit shy. The video is of much higher quality than those recorded with the facetime camera on mac.

It was a little weird at first, when I saw myself in a porn, but I really enjoy it. She is smoking hot with long legs in stockings and how her boobs wave up and down is really amazing. Masterpiece!

Holding a phone while making love is a bit physically challenging though, but I'm not sure if hiring a cameraman would be a good idea, hahaha.

Happy Spring Festival.

Anthony.

[PhotoSlider]

There is absolutely no reason to distrust the quality of generic sildenafil, any more than for distrusting generic aspirin, as long as you are buying from an established pharmacy. Why would the pharmacy sell junk and ruin their reputation when the real thing costs them maybe $0. 50 wholesale? There just isn't that much of an financial incentive for selling junk. By contrast, there IS an powerful financial incentive for selling generic sildenafil (worth $0. 50 wholesale) falsely labelled as genuine Viagra manufactured by Pfizer (retail price $15), not that I am accusing any pharmacy in Ukraine of doing this. In short, I see no reason to be afraid to buy generic sildenafil versus brand name Viagra, at least from an established pharmacy in Ukraine. By contrast, buying cheap dick pills on the street in Cambodia is another story.

Obviously, as with any other pharmaceutical or food product, there will be occasional scandals at the factory, where an accident occurs and the line worker or manager decides to cover the accident up and so impurities get into the product, but you have the same issue with products made and sold in rich countries now and then, like the famous Tylenol and peanut butter poisoning scandals in the United States. Maybe some generic brands have better quality control than others, or maybe Pfizer has better quality control than generics, but who can say for sure?

Kozerog rules!

Thorough essay by educated expert on important matters.

I do not use any, not because of exceptional masculinity or prowess, more of an attitude (sometimes leading to ladies leaving not fully pleased, and I'm OK with that). Have no disrespect for those who partake. Hell no! The more female and male orgasms the merrier! I stubbornly prefer to try on my own. It's a version of a research study titled "Effects of 18-22 yo females on male libido of an individual observed over multiple decades globally".

Used Ukrainian doctors in Kiev for multiple reasons with great success, and they commented on rampant problem with fake medications in Ukraine across the board. Even plastic or glass ampoules may not contain expected ingredients. Ready to use sealed syringes are more expensive to manufacture, and therefore are likely to be genuine. Kozerog's impeccable analysis of counterfeit pharma philosophy supported by his field experience with sildenafil is undoubtedly a valuable contribution to the subject.

[AntonySun1996]

Thanks for the previous post about pills. Just to add one more:

Konegra is another substitute of Viagra in Ukrainian. It is cheaper and works just as fine. Haven't experienced any side effects.

[Guntherus]

That sounds very professional, thanks to Kozerog for this input about sildenafil and taladifil. I've experienced headache as a side-effect and my response was to chop one pill and let 30 min pass between swallowing each half. I now realise that maybe it was the increase in water that saved me!

Let me add one advice: buying from the Taboo- or Intim-shops is not advices. I've had to throw those pills away.

Let me also add thanks for many valuable inputs in this forum recently, both from respected and beginning (soon to be respected) writers. Kiev is constantly changing its ways for mongers.