General Info

[Member #4581]

One part of it may be that management has been told not to intervene with the girls as much as before too. So the girls aren't getting proper training at customer retention.

I do however know that many girls read this forum, so perhaps they might want to read this article too:

https://www.quicktapsurvey.com/blog/...eat-customers/

And the last problem I see is that at our point in time, 50 really is too cheap and 100 really is too high given inflation, spending power and market competition. But girls don't want to settle in the middle at 60 or 70 (because small notes are worthless? And nothing is worse than hustling about money if you want a repeat customer. So prices should be static and guys should know before entering and never have to discuss it with the girls. As soon as money is brought up in the conversation, alarm bells are ringing in the heads of every guy there, and negative impulses arise.

As an ex sales person myself with several years of experiences in it, I know that every negative impulse you give takes three times as long to fix. You need 3 positive impulses to fix any negative impulse. And every impulse is a price driving force. So as soon as you mention 'money', or word 'extra' from the girl (the guy should know about 'extra' policies when entering, and never discuss it with the girl) the willingness to pay falls, and the chances of having a return or repeat customer falls even lower. Right before a sale is locked, it is the worst time in the world to come with a negative impulse. So why in the world is this happening? Why is money brought up? Lack or experience among the girls, or poor training and knowledge is my only guess.

Lastly, the prices for 'extras' sounds out of touch. Who would pay 50 or even 30 extra for fingering? Who would pay 50 or even 30 extra for kissing and then see that only the bad kissers are the ones not including it for free. Or anal or BBBJ or whatever they try. An extra is never +100% or even +60% of the base price. An extra is normally +20% for single items, or maximum +40% for full extra bundles of 3-4 added items. This is plain micro economics to add maximum income. And if the girls really are there for maximising the income (as some openly suggest), then why don't they follow these simple rules?

Good points! Well articulated.

I think one explanation, as RN mentioned, is that these girls are not well trained sales people looking out for maximization of long term earnings, but looking to take as much as possible in the immediate future from many punters. And they don't have any mentors to tell them differently. If anything, they learn from other girls who were there before and behave the same exact way.

[Pistons]

How much cardio are you doing? I think you are spot on. My refractory period is terrible. I know every single trick in the book but I am not able to solve it. I think it's part genetic, part fitness condition.

Well, I never do hard cardio more than 20 minutes at a time (max length of most sex sessions), but try to do some gym 5 times a week with varying amounts of cardio. But my 20 minute runs is what I added these past months that I feel did the trick. Stair climbs in particular, but I hear spinning can give good results too. Not sure how running works as you don't lift your knees high enough. The thighs are important for sex after all.

[ExpatLover]

Salaam Pistons, I totally agree. The girls do not act in their own economic self-interest at all.

In fact I would go further and abolish the concept of "extras" entirely. There is just too much cheating and ill will around the concept. Customers don't come back when upselling occurs, so there is a huge loss of income for the girls. It's a hidden loss, so that's why it continues. The short-term gains of upselling are more visible and give a rush of pleasure like winning the lottery on those rare occasions they are successful, so girls can get hooked on it. But those gains are erased ten times over by the loss in repeat business.

Maybe there are a couple of things that could legitimately be called extras like watersp0 rts and BDSM, but it would be safer to have these in a different type of session entirely.

Most of the girls are not the queen of strategic marketing, they just follow their basic instinct sometimes under negative influence of alcohol, drug, pimp. But by visiting prostitutes are we not also following our basic instincts.

Most of the girls have low education, usually one of the parents is dead, or they are divorced, some of them are pretty but don t expect too much from them. If the girls were clever they will never work in a club or a brothel, may be we should never forget this point, advice some of you to meet real German escorts, personally more than 100, to really feel the difference of level and ask those escorts if they will work in a FKK club.

[Optimist]

Salaam Pistons, I totally agree. The girls do not act in their own economic self-interest at all.

.....Customers don't come back when upselling occurs, so there is a huge loss of income for the girls. It's a hidden loss, so that's why it continues. The short-term gains of upselling are more visible and give a rush of pleasure like winning the lottery on those rare occasions they are successful, so girls can get hooked on it. But those gains are erased ten times over by the loss in repeat business.

Perfectly put. I know that by upselling you mean charging for extras which should be part of a basic service, and not offering to sell services which were never any part of basic service (as you suggest, [CodeWord117], fisting, SM and so on).

Unfortunately in some clubs clients have allowed the girls to succeed to a large degree. And in these places the hidden loss probably become much less. Maybe I am a weirdo, but I know that in my case the hidden loss to the girls can be quantified as being about 4000 euros this year so far

Pistons, as far as I can make out Oase management is encouraging girls to offer only suck and fuck for 50, so I doubt they will intervene, especially as the club seems to be on a high

[Sirioja]

How much cardio are you doing? I think you are spot on. My refractory period is terrible. I know every single trick in the book but I am not able to solve it. I think it's part genetic, part fitness condition.

To recover faster, no smoke, nor alcohol, but sport and being fit. If club have a swimming pool, swimming is good because relaxing, playing football at Oase or LR is also good.

[Polyamorist]

Lastly, the prices for 'extras' sounds out of touch. Who would pay 50 or even 30 extra for fingering? Who would pay 50 or even 30 extra for kissing and then see that only the bad kissers are the ones not including it for free. Or anal or BBBJ or whatever they try. An extra is never +100% or even +60% of the base price. An extra is normally +20% for single items, or maximum +40% for full extra bundles of 3-4 added items. This is plain micro economics to add maximum income. And if the girls really are there for maximising the income (as some openly suggest), then why don't they follow these simple rules?

Salaam Pistons, I totally agree. The girls do not act in their own economic self-interest at all.

In fact I would go further and abolish the concept of "extras" entirely. There is just too much cheating and ill will around the concept. Customers don't come back when upselling occurs, so there is a huge loss of income for the girls. It's a hidden loss, so that's why it continues. The short-term gains of upselling are more visible and give a rush of pleasure like winning the lottery on those rare occasions they are successful, so girls can get hooked on it. But those gains are erased ten times over by the loss in repeat business.

Maybe there are a couple of things that could legitimately be called extras like watersp0 rts and BDSM, but it would be safer to have these in a different type of session entirely.

[Rogue Nation]

One part of it may be that management has been told not to intervene with the girls as much as before too. So the girls aren't getting proper training at customer retention.

There's never been any customer retention training" for the girls. Girls are brought into the club, dumped there to make money. That's the only guideline. Make as much money as possible. Then they develop a strategy to achieve that. One way is good service at the standard rate to get repeat business. Another one is to make guys fall for you and milk them as good as you can. Or just try to rip guys (preferably tourists) off and take as much money as possible in a session with lousy service knowing the guy will never repeat and move on to the next victim.

Some clubs have set clear rules, others haven't. The effect of the new law is not as strong as members here might think.

[SaratogaX]

- Obesity is going up, and the average man don't exercise enough. Especially cardio. Before my latest venture into FKK land for me, I did some more cardio than I have done for some years. It resulted in me averaging 4 sessions a day for the first 4 days. And I had no issues finishing every time. On previous visits with less cardio, I have fallen down to 2/3 finishers.

How much cardio are you doing? I think you are spot on. My refractory period is terrible. I know every single trick in the book but I am not able to solve it. I think it's part genetic, part fitness condition.

[Pistons]

One part of it may be that management has been told not to intervene with the girls as much as before too. So the girls aren't getting proper training at customer retention.

I do however know that many girls read this forum, so perhaps they might want to read this article too:

https://www.quicktapsurvey.com/blog/...eat-customers/

And the last problem I see is that at our point in time, 50 really is too cheap and 100 really is too high given inflation, spending power and market competition. But girls don't want to settle in the middle at 60 or 70 (because small notes are worthless? And nothing is worse than hustling about money if you want a repeat customer. So prices should be static and guys should know before entering and never have to discuss it with the girls. As soon as money is brought up in the conversation, alarm bells are ringing in the heads of every guy there, and negative impulses arise.

As an ex sales person myself with several years of experiences in it, I know that every negative impulse you give takes three times as long to fix. You need 3 positive impulses to fix any negative impulse. And every impulse is a price driving force. So as soon as you mention 'money', or word 'extra' from the girl (the guy should know about 'extra' policies when entering, and never discuss it with the girl) the willingness to pay falls, and the chances of having a return or repeat customer falls even lower. Right before a sale is locked, it is the worst time in the world to come with a negative impulse. So why in the world is this happening? Why is money brought up? Lack or experience among the girls, or poor training and knowledge is my only guess.

Lastly, the prices for 'extras' sounds out of touch. Who would pay 50 or even 30 extra for fingering? Who would pay 50 or even 30 extra for kissing and then see that only the bad kissers are the ones not including it for free. Or anal or BBBJ or whatever they try. An extra is never +100% or even +60% of the base price. An extra is normally +20% for single items, or maximum +40% for full extra bundles of 3-4 added items. This is plain micro economics to add maximum income. And if the girls really are there for maximising the income (as some openly suggest), then why don't they follow these simple rules?

[Chongmal]

Sayyid Pistons: it's not because the market is saturated that there are no new FKKs. It's because in 2017, the German government sent a big signal that it is hostile to FKKs. It increased raids, restricted immigration, imposed registration, etc. No sane moneymaker would want to start an FKK in this adverse legal climate.

Time for mongers to get the message and move on. Evolution is about adaptation and migration.

I understand your statement about the German government sending a big signal that it is hostile toward FKKs, but I can also see things slightly from the governments viewpoint. Since their inception, FKK / Sauna Clubs have operated largely outside the realm of legal businesses. No regular industry; bar, restaurant, construction, etc. Would have been allowed to so openly operate outside the law for numerous years. The entire BBBJ section of the law is different. I know as an immigrant worker in Europe, I was required to register with the city, region and country. I also had to register with a professional guild. The company I helped establis and worked for had to register and undergo compliance reviews. I think the only reason the clubs were allowed such a long free run was they were not so numerous and many government officials were among the clients. I feel the rapid expansion of the clubs and heavy involvement of criminal elements in ownership and control of clubs forced government officials to take steps to bring about compliance on an equal level with other legit businesses.

[Optimist]

Pistons. Yes the tendency is to romanticise a mythical past (in politics this takes a very dangerous turn). Personally I think some things are better now than they used to be (whatever the timescale), but on certain objective measures I am sure that FKK is now a caricature of its glory days.

Just my way of seeing.

[ExpatLover]

Sayyid Pistons: it's not because the market is saturated that there are no new FKKs. It's because in 2017, the German government sent a big signal that it is hostile to FKKs. It increased raids, restricted immigration, imposed registration, etc. No sane moneymaker would want to start an FKK in this adverse legal climate.

Time for mongers to get the message and move on. Evolution is about adaptation and migration.

Right the message is not only against FKK but the prostitution in general, they are willing to strongly reducing the offer what is already taking place, so many girls are complaining about their incomes for about 2 years and are trying to do something else or to move to other countries.

[Polyamorist]

The FKK scene has peaked. Until 2 years ago you saw new FKK's popping up every 6 months. Big FKK's, and there was a boom in the market. Now the market is saturated.

Sayyid Pistons: it's not because the market is saturated that there are no new FKKs. It's because in 2017, the German government sent a big signal that it is hostile to FKKs. It increased raids, restricted immigration, imposed registration, etc. No sane moneymaker would want to start an FKK in this adverse legal climate.

Time for mongers to get the message and move on. Evolution is about adaptation and migration.

[Pistons]

'Everything was better in the past'. We've all heard this statement a million times before. Sure the BBBJ rule has something to it, but aside from that, it is mostly in our heads.

Why the past allways seems happier than the present:

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/987726

- The FKK scene has peaked. Until 2 years ago you saw new FKK's popping up every 6 months. Big FKK's, and there was a boom in the market. Now the market is saturated, and there are perhaps one or two clubs too many to spread the girls around at. Leaving the impression that the clubs are having problems. The real story might just be market normalization after a boom period. Adding girls from all the FKK's together, the overall options haven't fallen at all. It is quite stable.

- Obesity is going up, and the average man don't exercise enough. Especially cardio. Before my latest venture into FKK land for me, I did some more cardio than I have done for some years. It resulted in me averaging 4 sessions a day for the first 4 days. And I had no issues finishing every time. On previous visits with less cardio, I have fallen down to 2/3 finishers.

[Optimist]

Polyamorist. My German, french, and Romanian with English accent makes them laugh and sows confusion. They even have asked me what part of Romania I come from.

Mind you my English has become a bit syntax strange.A girl pointed out to me yesterday that I was speaking English with a German or Romanian (I forget which)sentence structure

I don't think they discriminate. It is just trying to profile which guests are high earners. Any US visitor is laden with money they think, simply because he has to pay the airfares. When I tell them my airfares are 100 return I can see them recalculating their profile of me a bit.