German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[McAdonis]

I finished my BA and MA in the USA and also studied in Sweden. I call tell you that the US education system is far superior, at least at the university level than most European systems.

Where does your alma mater rank? The top ranked American universities are still exceptional and considered amongst the best in the world. The other 90% of American universities produce graduates that are hit-and-miss. Also, grade inflation is a more recent phenomenon so if you graduated two decades ago perhaps this does not apply.

As for high schools, there is such a wide range. Yes, inner city schools may be failing, but at the same time there are thousands of schools which are truly outstanding. Just remember, these same high school students go into American universities and if they were so ill prepared in high school they would be flunking out badly in college but they are not.

I agree that there is a wide range. Elite high schools in the US are feeder schools into the elite American universities. But as with my answer above, the other 90 percent of American high schools will pass anybody with a pulse (okay slight exaggeration). Despite being ill-prepared, they are not flunked out because at "Party University", students can earn degrees with minimal effort because in the past few decades universities have become commoditized and students are treated like consumers:

"When you treat a student as a customer, the customer is, of course, always right," he writes. "If a student and parent of that student want a high grade, you give it to them. ".

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/0...-Get-s-College

The main driver is that students fill out evaluation forms at the end of the semester, and it's simply a fact that instructors who are hard graders get lower evaluations. And those evaluation numbers have an influence, often a very strong influence, on the faculty member's yearly evaluation and pay increase. I. e. Instructors have a quick and direct monetary incentive to give high grades.

This exact point is made here: https://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr1997/TROUT-ST.html when he proposes the "the elimination of student evaluations".

I have personally witnessed parents in school, yelling and screaming at teachers because their child received an average grade. The next day, my children told me the child was bragging because their grade was raised.

This exact point is made here: http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/top_p...collapsed.html "In other countries, grades are the result of a student's performance on an externally graded test. Everyone gets together to help Junior meet the high standards. In the USA, the land of second chances and wobbly standards, it is far easier to put pressure on the principal to put pressure on the teacher to give Junior the grades required to get into college. " The author also proposes his own theories about why vocational schools disappeared.

[Member #4581]

By saying that student debt is okay, I think you are being excessively pro American at all costs. Why compare the US to Italy and Spain, those are obviously not the prime examples. Why don't you compare the US to Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark. Compare Louisiana and Arkansas to Italy and Spain, and how many great jobs are there in Louisiana and Arkansas?

20 to 40 K is the recent average? Where is the trend going? 40 K tuition average at private school is insane. The University of California's instate tuition is now around $14000, are you really saying all is fine and well in the homeland?

How much a person decides to borrow is that person's own decision. It is not upto me to say that is OK or not. When I say the debt is OK, it is at a systemic level. If Sallie goes belly up, then the tax payer has to bail it out, that's no good. I am against providing a backstop to poor lenders.

I already said sensible kids can pay less tuition, go instate and get great education in a subject that is lucrative. So, I am not justifying this by any means. If a rich dad wants to splurge and send his kid to a elite private school studying Arab Lit and medieval music history, so be it.

But the key source of the problem is the easy money in the system. When rates are kept artificially down for decades, asset price distortions happen.

As for doing selective comparisons A quick search shows US per capita GDP is still comfortably ahead of Germany or Netherlands. And the gap has grown in favor of US take a look at how those numbers were 10 years ago and today.

And no, I am not being excessively pro American at all costs. This debate started when people started dumping on US and how poorly educated we are etc. Really? I ask again, why is all that impressive education not translating into economic gains or new company formation in Europe, especially in technology given all their vaunted math prowess. Someone else even said Trump election is somehow indicative of Poorly educated Americans. Hmm. We just had Sweden Democrats winning a big vote share, LE Pen almost winning in France, AFD gaining strength in DE, Orban in Hungary, far right gaining in NED, not to mention Putin. But let us bash Americans, why not?!

I am pretty happy to trash our sex scene. Most Americans here are happy to admit FKK is numero uno, and how lucky Germans are. I have nothing but respect for Germans, their clubs are super awesome. But no need to dump on Americans on other topics.

[Polyamorist]

By saying that student debt is okay, I think you are being excessively pro American at all costs. Why compare the US to Italy and Spain, those are obviously not the prime examples. Why don't you compare the US to Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark. Compare Louisiana and Arkansas to Italy and Spain, and how many great jobs are there in Louisiana and Arkansas?

20 to 40 K is the recent average? Where is the trend going? 40 K tuition average at private school is insane. The University of California's instate tuition is now around $14000, are you really saying all is fine and well in the homeland?

Alas, Mr. Indigo's points are indisputable. A chart:

http://lenkiefer.com/img/charts_may_...0with%20ed.gif

In short, health and education costs have ballooned since the nineties. And I remember there was already a big problem in the nineties.

It's why I wouldn't want to raise a family in the US. And that's without even getting to the Sex Prison aspects.

[McAdonis]

If American boys and girls are so uneducated, how are the best tech firms all in the US land -- for the most part, these are staffed with many youngsters who were deemed to be behind their Korean and other counterparts in the recent past.

Much of the tech talent at USA Firms are not produced domestically any more like it was in the 1960's.

Close to 75 percent of engineers in Silicon Valley are foreign citizens, including 79% of the female engineers: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/...e-report-says/.

Percentage of international students at USA Graduate schools (81% electrical engineering, 79% computer science): https://www.insidehighered.com/quick...tem-enrollment.

And exactly how did US GDP per capita and average net income grow muchh faster than the rest of G8 over a decade and more?

One article I skimmed said the decline in education started within the last 45 years in the USA. Around that same time is when the USA Military began funding for a research project that would later become the Internet. Can we agree that the Internet is the "Industrial Revolution" of the 20th century? And that America is still reaping the economic benefits of technology it harvested back then? Britain was the first to industrialize and became the richest nation on earth as a result, did their economic advantages and infrastructure investments disappear overnight? America is still the richest nation and still has its "brand name" to be able to attract skilled foreign workers.

Artificial Intelligence (and related by-products like self-driving cars) is predicted to be the next technology shift. Some industry insiders believe China might take the lead in AI within a decade and reap the economic spoils. Can the USA afford to abdicate the lead there?

STEM is also a matter of national security. USA, Russia and China are all funding research quantum computing research efforts. This is essentially the Manhattan Project of the 21st century. For obvious reasons, you would not be able to use immigrant scientists for this type of work, not without a great deal of scrutiny anyway. "The fall of modern cryptography would disrupt the economy as well as the balance of power across nation states. " https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbl...n-you-realize/.

[Delta Indigo]

The average student debt is ranging from 20 grand to 40. Is it too much, just oK? That's the average. And not everyone has debt at the time of graduation. If you go in state, it is much cheaper. A smart student with common sense might study Electrical Engineering at the local state school and graduate with very little debt and obtain a great job paying 60 grand right out of gate. Someone with less common sense might pay an arm and leg to obtain a degree in gender studies or Arabian Lit or some such subject from out of state school or a prestigious Ivy League, graduate with 200 grand debt and bleak job prospects.

https://ticas.org/posd/map-state-data

On the whole, I think debt levels at graduation are high but not outrageous. Our system is still providing great jobs. What's the point of spending 4 years in college as they do in Spain or Italy or other places, find no job, go back to school to park yourself for another 3 and then another 2 and so on till mid 30's? When the education leads to a well paying job, that education is worth paying for.

The underlying reasons for debt increase are far more complex. Our system is flooded with easy loans. In addition to Sallie, there is tons of easy private money for student loans. An 18 yr old who has no clue about future debt burden signs up for these loans because it is so easy to get them. Schools found it easy to raise tuitions because so many students were able to borrow and pay up. Not different from how easy money fueled the housing crisis of 2008. And there are easy loans available because every institution and central bank in the world parks their reserves in dollar and then look for microscopic yield advantages. This is a privilege and burden that comes from dollar being world's reserve currency.

Secondly, we have millions of foreign students who come from the richest families in their countries and willing to pay whatever tuition American schools charge. To some extent, thy set the upper end of the price range.

As for high schools, there is such a wide range. Yes, inner city schools may be failing, but at the same time there are thousands of schools which are truly outstanding. Just remember, these same high school students go into American universities and if they were so ill prepared in high school they would be flunking out badly in college but they are not.

By saying that student debt is okay, I think you are being excessively pro American at all costs. Why compare the US to Italy and Spain, those are obviously not the prime examples. Why don't you compare the US to Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark. Compare Louisiana and Arkansas to Italy and Spain, and how many great jobs are there in Louisiana and Arkansas?

20 to 40 K is the recent average? Where is the trend going? 40 K tuition average at private school is insane. The University of California's instate tuition is now around $14000, are you really saying all is fine and well in the homeland?

[Mongerer88]

Hungry, sorry I didn't read in your Vegas comments that you described the 100 Proof agency experience. The last two ladies I saw at 100 Proof were as good as most (not all) Montreal providers I have seen, but neither of the 100 Proof ladies are as good as my favorite Vegas independent. We are all different, but to me it is worth it to pay the higher USA Costs if I am in Vegas. I don't like sitting in my hotel room in Vegas alone when I know I can have a pretty girl over who does BBJTCIM and multiples in the hour. I don't get much enjoyment from calculating how much more I will have for a future international trip by foregoing fun now. And as bfsie pointed out, some of us would prefer let's say 10 sexual encounters spread out over months instead of 10 sexual encounters spread out over a few days. To each his own.

If I sat in my hotel room alone and studied, maybe I could figure out this math in the student loan horror story. I guess my American education fails me.

He went to school, entered a respected profession, earns $225,000 a year, and apparently claims he cannot pay back $1 million of student debt. A guy working for 30 years at $225,000 will earn $6,750,000. Paying back the student debt, even with interest, would leave him with a $4-$5 million profit.

The median household income in California is $80,000 or so. That is household, not individual, but let's be very generous and say a guy with no advanced education and no student debt can earn $80,000 a year (which I think is high). $80,000 times the same thirty years of work is $2. 4 million. Less than the dentist earns even after paying off his student debt.

The problem is accepting this bullshit that the Dentist can only pay $18,000 a year back from his $225,000 a year salary. Most people in California (assuming the $80,000 a year household income is for two people) make $40,000 or so each.

I think this helps non-US guys understand why top US escorts charge so much and get so much per hour. The incomes and costs of living are higher in the US.

Try to go into a bank and get a mortgage. You have to prove you don't need the money in order to get it! Compare that to student loans. If you want to go to a privte school and borrow 30 K a year so that you can get a degree in Left Handed Puppetry, you will get that loan and then end up tending bar trying to pay back 120 K at 6. 5% interest while making 18 K / year. It is the next housing crises waiting to happen.

Read about Mike Meru, an orthodontist who graduated from University of Southern Cal's dental school and owes over $1 Million in student loans. He makes $225 K / year and he pays about $1,500 a month and that isn't enough to cover the interest. His debt grows by 130 $/ day. I don't think he sees escorts. In two decades he will owe $2 Million. What an idiot! Who loaned him all this money?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-me...pen-1527252975

[Java Man]

Give me Germany and Western Europe any day over the rest of the world. For now. However, I have several friends some on here trying to drag me to Thailand maybe I will give in but several trying to sell me on Hong Kong too. Hong Kong and Shanghai I want to see before I die so some day will sample.

Add Macau to your list. They have Termas there, with an Asian Flavor. After visiting Frankfurt and Berlin, Thailand is still #1. Germany has more variety of things to do, but I get more bang for the buck in Thailand. The Philippines is GFE central.

Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal.

This was my #1 issue with Germany. I need to visit Montreal. I luv me some French-Canadian babes. Oh-La-La!

Totally agree on LV as garbage in fact even for gambling ( Casinos litter the USA now all over no need go NV) Either way, for those here who do go to Brazil and speak no Portuguese how does your English and Spanish (if speak it) hold up with the girls? My ' issues' with Brazil and Colombia are one in the same. I am not scared but why fuck around there when Germany is so safe, IMHO worth the premium. Every time I consider Colombia or Brazil and start reading I always come across a ' Only take cabs the hotel calls you' or ' After 6 PM only take taxis even between hotels' or ' Only use cash stations in banks where police stand guard' or ' at night do not walk thru the park' and so on.

So for those who do visit both Germany and Brazil how would you compare safety as well as getting by with just English / Spanish. Colombia would be an easy slam dunk to negotiate and navigate thru but no interest in downgrading from Europe. Brazil, on the table and I wouldn't mind if anyone plans a trip tagging along. I do want to try it but would prefer to go there with a experienced monger who knows the lay of the land.

Better gambling odds in Las Vegas vs the Other US Casinos. I'm Latino and speak Spanish fluently. (That does NOT go hand in Hand for US Latinos.) I first went to Rio in 2001. Speaking Spanish didn't really help me. The locals understood me better than I understood them. Speaking Portuguese helps with the freelancers. The prices are set in the clinicas and Rio's Termas. On that first trip, I met a non-pro and was motivated to learn Portuguese. Subsequent trips became better as I was now able to communicate with the locals.

I've seen all those safety precautions before. I don't think I've ever followed them. Because I'm Latino, I blend in. (Remember, the Locals are the ones who primarily get mugged.) I've never had any safety issues while in Rio, and I've walked alone at all hours. You have to be vigilant on your surroundings. Don't be flashy wearing jewelry. Don't whip out your expensive smartphone on the street. And Most Importantly, Don't get Drunk.

[Kosher Kowboy]

Brazil remains my favorite destination. I have studied and practiced the language for several years but I am still not fluent. Rio is a bit more dangerous but set up for tourists. . Having said all this Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal.

Vegas should be at the rock bottom of everyone's TDL for this hobby. The US is a sex prison. Long live Germany (and Brazil and Montreal).

Totally agree on LV as garbage in fact even for gambling ( Casinos litter the USA now all over no need go NV) it is not needed anymore unless one likes to bet on sports and sit and watch the giant screens other than that can use a bookie here in Texas. Two major sports teams now, all commercialized, no longer that Oasis in the Desert it was.

I have spoken with this Claudia at Sharks a few times whose Spanish is as fluent as any native Spanish speaker although Portuguese is her native tongue (if she really is Brazilian) but she has told me if you speak English and Spanish one should have zero issues with communications in either of the two main Brazilian monger destinations. So many words are similar in fact she spoke a tad Portuguese to me and I replied in Spanish, she kept it quite simple but I think she was trying to show me Spanish will allow you to 'get by' down there if the girl doesn't speak English. I use this Romanian / English translator on my phone for communications across the oceans between trips and I notice tons of Romanian words mirror their English and Spanish meanings although variances are there. It is not like Spanish and Portuguese are like comparing Chinese to Hebrew; the two are so similar although many say Italian is closest to Portuguese.

Either way, for those here who do go to Brazil and speak no Portuguese how does your English and Spanish (if speak it) hold up with the girls?

Is service / deals enhanced? I found in my journeys to Latin America speaking Spanish greatly enhances times and the girls like being able to enjoy a date, short or long being able to actually communicate. I saw tons of idiots passing a phone back and forth, I also know several pay more. Claudia outright told me the girls in Rio will hose guys who can't communicate. I read what many of the posters who do not speak Spanish pay in Panama in reports and it is less than the Spanish speaking johns by at least 25-50 bucks an hour!

My ' issues' with Brazil and Colombia are one in the same. I am not scared but why fuck around there when Germany is so safe, IMHO worth the premium. Every time I consider Colombia or Brazil and start reading I always come across a ' Only take cabs the hotel calls you' or ' After 6 PM only take taxis even between hotels' or ' Only use cash stations in banks where police stand guard' or ' at night do not walk thru the park' and so on. In Panama (considered very safe and it was) there were still heavily armed paramilitary police standing outside of the brothels (la Mayor and Bocatorena) as well as every supermarket, bank, Chinese restaurant, casino and even shoe stores and Wendy's and McDonalds. They aren't there for shits and giggles they are there because if they weren't the police fear issues. Police control points littered the city too and PTY is a much safer city than others in that region. Even when in licensed taxis I felt like I needed to ' watch my back' whereas in a German climate controlled Mercedes taxi I can simply relax and not worry about him pulling in to some back alley and 5 guys grabbing my ATM card. When guys post ' If going to Colombia make sure you keep a low debit card balance in case you get mugged' I simply have to ask myself why bother going when one can go to Europe? Just my opinion, to each their own.

I have spent enough years seeing armed guards cruising the streets of Mexico and elsewhere all seated in the back of usually Nissan Frontier's or Toyota Tacoma's, IMHO this is still third world and I am not knocking other mongers' choices to go to these countries it is just I have reservations and hesitations. Honestly she probably isn't even in the same boat or even close as most in Brazil but I would rather go to Sharks and stuff 100 Euros in Claudia's hands to have a Brazilian or go to a piso in Barcelona for 60/100 and fuck tons of Brazilians and Colombianas for that matter as well as Cubans and every other South American country than deal with the crap I read about.

Every place has issues but I have yet to see 10 armed guards in a beat up shitty pickup cruising the streets of Frankfurt and unless they are eating there I have yet to see the German police standing guard outside of any Doner shops or places with cash. Same in Spain. In Mexico, Central or South America every 'Rewe' would have an armed guard, probably for a good reason. Make that two of them.

So for those who do visit both Germany and Brazil how would you compare safety as well as getting by with just English / Spanish. Colombia would be an easy slam dunk to negotiate and navigate thru but no interest in downgrading from Europe. Brazil, on the table and I wouldn't mind if anyone plans a trip tagging along. I do want to try it but would prefer to go there with a experienced monger who knows the lay of the land.

I think Turgid and HungryStud and I am sure a few others are both well schooled in Brazil and given I have read their numerous posts here and have a point of reference to go off it would be nice even if in a PM to get their perspective not on the quality or pricing of the girls but on the language barriers if any as well as any safety issues. I know there is much info on that forum but sometimes when you are familiar with a poster it is much easier to put in perspective their thoughts than posters you have no clue about.

[Mongerer88]

Be fair, Hungry. If I recall correctly, you had a good time with Hobby Shop and with a 100 Proof agency lady I think I recommended who looked like Mila Kunis. Granted that 100 Proof agency is now $500 an hour but she was cute and full GFE. The original question presented was whether someone who is in Vegas for work or finds a very inexpensive domestic flight is better off spending $900-$1,000 on two ladies, or should he incur much more significant travel costs by choosing to fly outside of the US to go to an international destination with much better prices for the same service and less screening hassles. It is a legitimate question. I do Vegas and I do international. If you choose properly in Vegas (quality independent or with the one or two legitimate agencies), I get the same thing as overseas, just at a much higher price, obviously.

Brazil remains my favorite destination. I have studied and practiced the language for several years but I am still not fluent. I get better every time I go. Rio is probably the best place for someone who doesn't know any Portuguese. I love the termas but they are probably not as good as the FKKs if I remember correctly. You usually just go with one girl but she will really love you for the money and sometimes even go home with you off the clock. What I really like are the clinica scene in Sao Paulo where the past few visits I have been doing interactive 3-sums for the equivalent of 80 $ USD / hour. However, you have to have some understanding of the language or a guide and you have to be a little more careful as Sampa is intimidating. Rio is a bit more dangerous but set up for tourists. My Paulista friends are afraid of that city. Having said all this Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal..

[HungryStud101]

I grew up in the District, was a hidden secret until the late 1980's and we had brothels all over but they all got shut down. I respect your eagerness to find new spots

I think you are doing well in Germany, only change a losing game, to add in the USA for this game is flushing money down the toilet.

Brazil remains my favorite destination. I have studied and practiced the language for several years but I am still not fluent. I get better every time I go. Rio is probably the best place for someone who doesn't know any Portuguese. I love the termas but they are probably not as good as the FKKs if I remember correctly. You usually just go with one girl but she will really love you for the money and sometimes even go home with you off the clock. What I really like are the clinica scene in Sao Paulo where the past few visits I have been doing interactive 3-sums for the equivalent of 80 $ USD / hour. However, you have to have some understanding of the language or a guide and you have to be a little more careful as Sampa is intimidating. Rio is a bit more dangerous but set up for tourists. My Paulista friends are afraid of that city. Having said all this Germany is such a safe place and the FKKs are still quite the deal. I have no complaints except it all feels more transactional than my other favorite places such as Brazil and Montreal.

Vegas sucks in comparison to all these places. An acquaintance went to the Chicken Ranch and he said they brought out a line-up of 8 girls that he wouldn't fuck for free. He never said how much they charged but only that they wanted some stupid amount of money. A few years ago I was in Vegas for a work convention and I had a girl coming over for 500$/hour. We were talking for two weeks. I asked her to dress up like one of her photos and she said that will cost me an extra 100$. I said you got to wear something, don't you? For 500$ she arrives in jeans and curlers in her hair? I refused to pay the extortion fee and she didn't show up or call to cancel. So I had 100 Proof send over a girl for 400 $ who was OK but not the quality of girls I get in Montreal for the equivalent of 150 $USD. I went to the Hobby Shop for 350 $ and saw a Korean girl. That was nice. But not like the other places I go. When the economy tanked in 2008 in the US some of the local strip clubs (non-Vegas) I grew up with became full service. I checked it out and it was so but it was not sustainable. Feminists (who are usually the fugliest women one will ever encounter) had persuaded LE to bust all those places so women are not exploited. Now those women work minimum wage jobs. I digress.

Vegas should be at the rock bottom of everyone's TDL for this hobby. The US is a sex prison. Long live Germany (and Brazil and Montreal).

[HungryStud101]

Try to go into a bank and get a mortgage. You have to prove you don't need the money in order to get it! Compare that to student loans. If you want to go to a privte school and borrow 30 K a year so that you can get a degree in Left Handed Puppetry, you will get that loan and then end up tending bar trying to pay back 120 K at 6. 5% interest while making 18 K / year. It is the next housing crises waiting to happen.

Read about Mike Meru, an orthodontist who graduated from University of Southern Cal's dental school and owes over $1 Million in student loans. He makes $225 K / year and he pays about $1,500 a month and that isn't enough to cover the interest. His debt grows by 130 $/ day. I don't think he sees escorts. In two decades he will owe $2 Million. What an idiot! Who loaned him all this money?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-me...pen-1527252975

[Kosher Kowboy]

I mongered once in Washington dc and quality of girl was limited. I wonder if there is good mongering destination in USA?

I went to Vegas but long time ago when I was a kid, so if I have chance to go there for holiday or business, I will definitely monger there, but for mongering destination I stick to German FKK for now while it last as it is and I hope it last as it is for life time.

I grew up in the District, was a hidden secret until the late 1980's and we had brothels all over but they all got shut down. I respect your eagerness to find new spots just like I do you look at the map and do your research in hunt of new places. ' Take a hint' from the Americans on here who not only go to Germany but the vast majority of American mongers are going to go to Sosua in the DR (shithole, could write me a check to go I would rip it up), Costa Rica (inflated pricing now) , Panama (hot, humid and either really cheap pussy or overpriced girls who also work CR and Colombia for less than they ask in Panama) , Colombia itself with 3 cities maybe 4 in specific and none of them on my docket as of today, Brazil is very popular and I am researching it but have hesitations that do not exist in Germany and behind all those places is Asia mainly Thailand and I have more interest in the food and street cart vendors I see on the Food Network and Anthony Bourdain's old show (may he RIP) than I do in their scene. We also have the islands off our south east coast but SXM is rebuilding still and prices have gone up and quality down but the Dutch side of St. Maartan used to be great, the other Dutch Antilles suck.

Give me Germany and Western Europe any day over the rest of the world. For now. However, I have several friends some on here trying to drag me to Thailand maybe I will give in but several trying to sell me on Hong Kong too. Hong Kong and Shanghai I want to see before I die so some day will sample. I know little of India but one of my former clients is from India and knows my game and tells me I must as he words it go to this place called Goa in India. It is a fancy beach area and although not a monger destination it is full of girls many hot who apparently hang out in the hotel bars working for not much targeting mainly British men or whoever might be there. I wouldn't say these girls are cheap but if one wants to sample a ' James Bond Quality Indian Lady' this place is probably where one can find her, everything here is I am told 4 and 5 star quality for food and lodging and safety not an issue at all.

The USA never was a monger destination per se like a Brazil, a Thailand or a Germany nor will it be. If already in the USA is worth looking but to come here to monger is a waste. At this time the best pussy can be found for good pricing still in Texas (mainly DFW / HOU), Florida is still up and rolling (Southern FL, massive downward pressure on pricing from the Cuban girls) , Denver is as good as it was prior, great pussy town! That being said if you really want a vacation here and get a hooker than I say go skiing or rafting in Summit Country CO and spend your first night and last night downtown Denver. There is also a casino area called Black Hawk about 30 miles west of Denver on I-70 near Idaho Springs full of hotels and restaurants and not loaded up with White Trash gawkers like Vegas is. Fun place still has that old west ' gold mine' feel to it. I recommend the Crowne Plaza off the 16th Street Mall area as it allows smoking in a dedicated area and go get the Colorado rack of lamb at Elways even if it is over 60 bucks, and try out some Rocky Mountain Oysters at the Buckhorn Exchange (bull balls) they are actually pretty good. As protein packed as a Gypsy's vagina but probably not as moist and flavorful

I think you are doing well in Germany, only change a losing game, to add in the USA for this game is flushing money down the toilet.

[Member #4581]

The average student debt is ranging from 20 grand to 40. Is it too much, just oK? That's the average. And not everyone has debt at the time of graduation. If you go in state, it is much cheaper. A smart student with common sense might study Electrical Engineering at the local state school and graduate with very little debt and obtain a great job paying 60 grand right out of gate. Someone with less common sense might pay an arm and leg to obtain a degree in gender studies or Arabian Lit or some such subject from out of state school or a prestigious Ivy League, graduate with 200 grand debt and bleak job prospects.

https://ticas.org/posd/map-state-data

On the whole, I think debt levels at graduation are high but not outrageous. Our system is still providing great jobs. What's the point of spending 4 years in college as they do in Spain or Italy or other places, find no job, go back to school to park yourself for another 3 and then another 2 and so on till mid 30's? When the education leads to a well paying job, that education is worth paying for.

The underlying reasons for debt increase are far more complex. Our system is flooded with easy loans. In addition to Sallie, there is tons of easy private money for student loans. An 18 yr old who has no clue about future debt burden signs up for these loans because it is so easy to get them. Schools found it easy to raise tuitions because so many students were able to borrow and pay up. Not different from how easy money fueled the housing crisis of 2008. And there are easy loans available because every institution and central bank in the world parks their reserves in dollar and then look for microscopic yield advantages. This is a privilege and burden that comes from dollar being world's reserve currency.

Secondly, we have millions of foreign students who come from the richest families in their countries and willing to pay whatever tuition American schools charge. To some extent, thy set the upper end of the price range.

As for high schools, there is such a wide range. Yes, inner city schools may be failing, but at the same time there are thousands of schools which are truly outstanding. Just remember, these same high school students go into American universities and if they were so ill prepared in high school they would be flunking out badly in college — but they are not.

[Delta Indigo]

"In the US, there would be riots in the streets if teachers and school staff told parents that their 13 year old child has no chance to go to university but should instead focus to become an electrician, plumber, baker, etc. ".

This is a rhetorical point. Teachers are not telling parents in general anything about the careers of their 13 year olds. That is not the business of the teacher anyway. And they are not. And no, riots will not start either. If you read the comments pages on WSJ, a publication generally patronized by the higher income bracketed, many people bemoan that more kids are not going the professional apprentice route into the careers you mentioned.

And the broader point about bashing American education system: those kinds of doomsday predictions have been around for 30 to 40 years, if not longer. Russians were gettig ahead, then Japanese, then Koreans, the Finns, etc etc. There is more to an educational system than rote learning. Yes, the Koreans and Finns score better on standardized tests at age 16 perhaps, but by the time they are 25 all their creativity, innovative thinking, risk taking ability seem to disapppear. The brightest of the brightest in Korea go work for Samsung, which is great in commodity semiconductors due to their massive capital investments but all the brightest kids of Korea can't write code worth shit. As for Finns, did I miss the demise of their one tech firm? If American boys and girls are so uneducated, how are the best tech firms all in the US land -- for the most part, these are staffed with many youngsters who were deemed to be behind their Korean and other counterparts in the recent past. And exactly how did US GDP per capita and average net income grow muchh faster than the rest of G8 over a decade and more?

I think the original issue is getting confused here. I finished my BA and MA in the USA and also studied in Sweden. I call tell you that the US education system is far superior, at least at the university level than most European systems. I agree with Jnpr30 here. So please don't accuse me of inane america bashing, I speak from a lot of experience.

But McAdonis is right about a few things, and one of his points is actually quite different. The cost of higher education is increasingly expensive and it is not longer the key to El Dorado. My original point was not that quality of the US education system is not good, at the university level I reiterate, I can not vouch for US high schools, although I do think critical analysis and creative thinking is am American strength in education, is bad.

Rather I meant that due to increasingly inequality and the sharp increases in the cost of higher education and health care, that life in the US was increasingly unlivable. I am not only talking about the infamous "middle class" here, but also about people who are relatively affluent.

The way America is structured makes life very difficult, higher education and health care are virtually cost less in the vast majority of European countries, we can argue about the quality, but these two things will not financially destroy you.

Where McAdonis is totally right is that higher education costs an arm and a leg in the US and it is essential for a barely reasonably quality of life and not just an extravagant one. Yes, so the education might be great, but it is harder and harder to keep your head above water in the US. I really think this is quite apparent and not "america bashing. ".

[Chongmal]

"In the US, there would be riots in the streets if teachers and school staff told parents that their 13 year old child has no chance to go to university but should instead focus to become an electrician, plumber, baker, etc. ".

This is a rhetorical point. Teachers are not telling parents in general anything about the careers of their 13 year olds. That is not the business of the teacher anyway. And they are not. And no, riots will not start either. If you read the comments pages on WSJ, a publication generally patronized by the higher income bracketed, many people bemoan that more kids are not going the professional apprentice route into the careers you mentioned.

You missed my point. In Europe, based on performance in the classroom, children are funneled toward the education path and careers for which they show more aptitude. Your heavy response toward my comments is evidence to me how unacceptable this concept would be to the general population in the USA, when it is widely accepted in much of the civilized world. It's amazing to me that the USA focuses so heavily on athletics and other extracurricular activities and less on actually teaching critical skills. In the late 80's almost all votech classes were eliminated in the state where I attended school. Gone were the days of small engine mechanics, automotive mechanics, wood working and home economics due to budget constraints but at the same time provisions were made to expand the extracellular activities. In Europe extracurricular activities are not related to the school but are instead private club activities. School is reserved and focused on education. I believe I have a good understanding of both the USA and European education systems having gone through the USA system myself and my children going through the European system for the majority of there schooling. My son returned to the USA in his 9th year. He was required to take tests for evaluation and placement in classes because his European reports showed mostly 6's and 7's except for English, Netherlands and German which were higher. After the tests were graded and evaluations made because he answered some science and math questions in Latin and French, they promoted him to the 12th year classes where he earned perfect scores. Unfortunately, he required another three years of credits to graduate so he was encouraged to take a kickback year and then signed up for online classes in Chinese, University level mathematics, science, etc. Where he also earned perfect scores. This is a personal example that I witnessed, not a statistical report pulled from somewhere. Yes, I'm hard on the USA education system but I don't feel I bash it. I feel that I provide it with an honest assessment.

Some people may question my loyalty to my country. My loyalty is unwavering but my mind is open. Yes, my skin is so white I must be privileged. My children say I'm so patriotic that I'm socially unacceptable.