Kyiv

[DramaFree11]

Mcdounald's, is an option, but low end. Night Life is terrible, way over-rated. Fridays OK, but that is the only night that is decent. Caribbean club is option, also very average at best.

I'm heading to Kiev this week for the first time. I've seen old information on other sites about many bars and clubs being full of working girls. Is this still the case, everyone here just seems to talk about getting girls online.

If so which bars are good to visit.

I've also seen some older posts here about girls looking for guys at McDonald's in Kiev. Presumably there are a number of McDonald's in Kiev, anyone have any information on which one it is and if it's still worthwhile?

I know it's easier ordering a girl online from an agency but I actually find it more enjoyable to go out and find prostitutes / escorts.

Thanks in advance.

[Mpjsongs]

I'm heading to Kiev this week for the first time. I've seen old information on other sites about many bars and clubs being full of working girls. Is this still the case, everyone here just seems to talk about getting girls online.

If so which bars are good to visit.

I've also seen some older posts here about girls looking for guys at McDonald's in Kiev. Presumably there are a number of McDonald's in Kiev, anyone have any information on which one it is and if it's still worthwhile?

I know it's easier ordering a girl online from an agency but I actually find it more enjoyable to go out and find prostitutes / escorts.

Thanks in advance.

[Riina]

Two conclusions. First, getting rid of middlemen is key to lower prices. But getting rid of middlemen requires time. Agencies exist for a reason. Guys want to come to Kyiv for 3 days and have sex with a different girl every morning and evening, and most guys can't arrange that without an agency. Some guys might be successful using mamba semi-pros for rushed sex tours like this, but certainly not average guys. Most guys require a much more leisurely schedule to get success with true semi-pros.

I'm a big believer of cutting out the middle man. But when it comes to prostitutes, it's extremely inefficient to chase after individual girls.

[Riina]

What about that "intim-house" website? Some guy here wrote about them. They promote some salons and escort service. Saw their adds everywhere on the web.

Does nobody know them? How's the service?

http://relaxkiev.com/eng/

I think RelaxKiev is the biggest source of undercover agencies. We need some members to report links to specific numbers where the booker is making an reasonable attempt to vet girls.

[Arkiloko]

I wish we had some links to these secret agencies with no names.

What about that "intim-house" website? Some guy here wrote about them. They promote some salons and escort service. Saw their adds everywhere on the web.

Does nobody know them? How's the service?

[Riina]

I would think, if you google their number, it will show up on some kind of an escort site where you can post a link. No agency could exist without some form of internet marketing.

I wish we had some links to these secret agencies with no names.

[Riina]

Agencies don't have names. Even when the touts on the street give you "visiting cards" they just have phone numbers on them with no names.

I would think, if you google their number, it will show up on some kind of an escort site where you can post a link. No agency could exist without some form of internet marketing.

[DramaFree11]

I refuse to pay 200 taxi fee. 100 is good with 2000 girls.

Had 24 girls so far in 15 days. Had 3 days down sick with strep. Probably DFK or DATY.

Am healthy now.

3 girls were terrible:

1. From war torn Donetsk area. Visibly traumatized. Complained all the time. After she yelled irritated "It hurts! I pulled out my dick and told her literally "Get the fuck out now! Another one will be here instead of you in 30 minutes. " Lost 70 USD. Gambling money.

2. Two girls arrived for me and my friend. Paid them 2 K per. Right there in the street one started playing mama-san:

- Do you, guys, know the rules?

- ? Please remind us!

- No kissing. No touching private parts.

My friend and I looked at each other, and asked:

- What do you think?

- They can go to hell!

Got our money back, short of 100 UAH taxi fee.

3. This morning two girls arrived, very nervous newbies. Confidence and shame problems. Were rude. I turned and walked away. They yelled:

- Money for taxi!

Didn't honor them with response.

3 out of 24 - IMO not a bad ratio.

I have an unfair advantage though: this agency knows me. I speak fluent Russian and decent Ukrainian.

Warning: I do not have girls numbers to give away. I can explain my approach over Viber voice call. Cheers! Sorry, it gets very busy in Kiev.

Wow, P. Slider, I totally agree with your post. Welcome to the real Ukraine.

Nice Report.

[DramaFree11]

Agree, fighting with girls or a couple of dollars or few Euros is very bad advice. Pick you battles, there are many in dealing Kiev girls, just not worth it.

[Vitrea]

I refuse to pay 200 taxi fee. 100 is good with 2000 girls.

Taxi fee is likely to be 100 during the day and 200 at night. I am sure you can negotiate and if you know them well and they know that you are a good customer they will agree to 100 at all times. But for a newbie, who is my target audience here, they will ask 200. I personally do not worry about 3 vs 6 euros.

[Vitrea]

It sounds like you are having a good time. Which agencies did you contact for Tanya, Emma, Ilona?

Agencies don't have names. Even when the touts on the street give you "visiting cards" they just have phone numbers on them with no names.

[PhotoSlider]

Have a short message that I cannot send you.

[SuperLove]

Brother monger,

I am serious, getting tons of them at 7 plus for $$$200-250 a day.

It seems Ukraine is full of beautiful girls and most of them rely on their body to get them food. Things are changing.

Thanks Photoslider, I have contacted a few chick and they are all asking me 175-300. All of them are 7 and 7 plus.

7 and 7 plus in Kiev, highly unlikely, 6 if you are lucky. Try to deal in reality.

[Michi T]

...I decided to have a drink and there were few people drinking just few meters from me. I thought I will give it a try and found that it is some famous 1 euro drink bar where everything in the menu is for 1 euro. Sorry forgot the name of that place, but I guess you guys will know for sure what I am talking about. ...

Does anyone know about this bar? What is the name and where is it? It sounds interesting. I know one Euro bars from Poland only.

[Kozerog]

First of all, I am sad about the negativity in this forum. My experience was positive.

I think some of the negativity comes from lack of understanding of how things work in Kyiv plus lack of advance preparation for those using mamba. I know I had difficulties my first few years in Ukraine. Lack of understanding of pricing was one cause of my problems, which is why I'm making all these posts on that subject. I actually may have lost some excellent semi-pro prospects my first few years because I was offering too much money, not too little. I was still thinking of USA prices, and girls probably thought I was a big talking wanker who didn't actually plan to pay anything.

As I suggested in my last post, standard per hour price for quality escorts, not counting middleman fees, is 1000 uah for longer sessions. But then you need to add an upfront outcall fee of maybe 1000 uah for short sessions. Thus one hour sessions would be 2000 uah total, two hours 2500 uah, three hours 3000 uah, or something like that.

Those prices are for the girl. If a middleman (agency, pimp, strip bar, etc) is involved, then add their fee. Hidden agencies (agencies masquerading as independents on mamba and elsewhere) take 50%. So expect to pay double the above rates for agency girls.

Photoslider mentioned that he was paying 2000 uah total for agency girls, so no outcall fee, and my own experience in summer of 2017 was similar, 1700 uah for first as well as subsequent hours. Lack of outcall fee (outcall fee means first hour more expensive than subsequent hours) implies hidden agency girls are being worked hard: one client after another with little downtime in between. Not surprising that these girls often have a bad attitude and there is high employee turnover at these hidden agencies. Photoslider's 3 bad apples out of 20 total is better than most clients can expect. As Photoslider mentioned, he has advantages that other clients lack: long-time repeat customer at his preferred agency, speaks fluent Russian, much experience with the Kyiv mongering scene, apparently more sexually attractive to girls than average client. Many clients may only get 50% success rate, and of course this is an average. Quite possible for an unlucky newbie to get 5 bad girls in a row. No wonder some guys become so negative.

KEC / Gia agency is the only openly operating agency, but because they are operating openly, payoffs to police are higher, and agency cut is 60% rather than 50%. KEC / Gia incorporates an outcall fee in their pricing structure, which reduces need to work girls so hard. Supposedly, KEC / Gia girls see at most one client per day. Some girls are priced higher than others, but lets take Alina, who is priced on the Russian version of the site at 5000,7000, 9000 and 10000 uah for 1, 2, 3, and 4 hours respectively. Multiplying by 40% gives what the girl nets: 2000,2800, 3600,4000 uah. These numbers are not far from those I listed earlier for prices you can expect to pay for high quality outcall independents. Note that 4000 uah for 4 hours is also what I paid my jewel this past summer.

Two conclusions. First, getting rid of middlemen is key to lower prices. But getting rid of middlemen requires time. Agencies exist for a reason. Guys want to come to Kyiv for 3 days and have sex with a different girl every morning and evening, and most guys can't arrange that without an agency. Some guys might be successful using mamba semi-pros for rushed sex tours like this, but certainly not average guys. Most guys require a much more leisurely schedule to get success with true semi-pros.

Second, if you must use an agency, and you lack Photoslider's advantages, you might as well use KEC / Gia. Because if your success ratio is only 50%, versus Photoslider's 85% (17 out of 20), then 2000 uah for one hour with hidden agencies actually ends up costing twice that on average per good experience (and I'm not even factoring in the stress of the bad experiences). So that's 4000 uah on average per one hour meeting versus 5000 at KEC / Gia. If you usually extend good sessions to 3 hours, then each good session costs 2000 * 4 = 8000 uah at hidden agencies (3 good hours at 2000 plus average of one bad per good experience) versus 9000 at KEC / Gia. Then factor in that KEC / Gia girls are almost certainly better quality on average than girls at hidden agencies, and it just doesn't make sense for newbies to bother with hidden agencies.

I've never used KEC / Gia myself, but I did use hidden agencies in summer 2017 and I experienced their disadvantages first hand. It's clear to me that KEC / Gia fixes many of those disadvantages. So I were forced to use an agency in the future, I would use KEC / Gia. However, if at all possible, I would try to avoid agencies and other middlemen entirely. 20000 uah (two 4 hour sessions) weekly for 13 weeks = 260000 uah, or over 9000 usd. That's more than I want to spend, plus it would bother me that 60% of that money would be going to middlemen rather than the girl.

If I were the type of guy who liked lots of variety rather than the same girl over and over, I would definitely use KEC / Gia. I am confident that, if ever necessary, I could eventually replace my current jewel with another quality independent / semi-pro for long-term mistress relationship, but I am equally confident that I could not easily and quickly find quality independents / semi-pros for one-shot deals.