Kyiv

[Riina]

I need two things to play sugar daddy in my US city. A really nice car and a really nice centrally located place. If you're in Kiev, you don't need the car, but you do need the place. Most of the girls I date live in the suburbs with family, I can hook them to hang around by setting up a personal crash pad in the city where they can break from the world and feel comfortable. Hostels and hotels would lower me to only transactions with hard prostitutes.

[PhotoSlider]

...I have few more downsides. I don't use smart phone therefore viber, tinder etc. Not my common grounds...

You have one advantage in your approach. Relative honesty. You are not going to Kiev strictly to get laid.

But without an apartment, smartphone, local language and adequate attire, - perhaps windows shopping is going to be the limit of your entertainment. There's a plenty of beautiful girls in Kiev, and you would be OK with just people watching, as long as you are not disappointed that none of them are yours, not even for a limited time.

The main question then, - why bother? There are other tourist locations in the world where there is no mongering.

Don't get me wrong please, Kiev is very interesting historically, architecturally, gastronomically and otherwise. But it is not cheap. Self-imposed artificial limitations means no sex. Ordering a girl for takeout at sauna is complicated, and with emergence of messengers it is an archaic approach, long time gone. HJ at massage place likewise is a mediocre substitute for a real thing. And enough said about clubs already. Kiev is not a Western city, it operates differently.

Miracles still happen, but without smartphone and local contacts you are bound to incur expenses without reaching the goal.

You want to spend 100-200 USD or EUR on a single pop, yet you are very cheap with the place where you are going to sleep. I would do the opposite, - AirBnB for an apartment, as Kozerog suggests. Yes you are used to stay at hostels, but $30-40/ night with superhost should be easy to arrange. Most of them speak passable English, no hassle with keys, not even for a 2-3 days trip. Then $50-$70 an hour for good call girls, and keep ordering them until a good one arrives. Based on my experience, should take no more than 3-5 takes, and you don't even have to pay 100 UAH taxi fee, if you don't like the candidates.

IMHO smartphone is a must though these days.

If it's too late to change your hostel plans, then simply enjoy tourist attractions, and come again in May, when girls are in shirt skirts and otherwise more revealing clothes.

[Tigers12]

Holy Shit! You guys are expert I am nowhere near to in the same league. OK thanks for the response and quick reality check. Just completed my bookings and spending 2 full day and flying to another city in Europe. And yes, I am staying in a hostel. Considering how little chance I have, I didn't really bother with the apartments because the logistics, getting the keys, etc seems much harder and complicated. I speak no Russian / Ukrainian either. I guess this one would be more like a checking thing out. I'll definitely let you guys know what I have observed. With that hostel move, I am limited to saunas or brothels if I can locate them and if they going to be less than average, well what the heck.

I have few more downsides. I don't use smart phone therefore viber, tinder etc. Not my common grounds.

Another one. I used to be a big time clubber in my younger days, dressing very sharp to impress and all that, which certainly works. Now days I take long tours in EU, moving swiftly from place to place more like a backpacker mode. I have no luggage therefore I carry very limited clothing with me. I can t pack a dress shoe or a slack pants or a blazer jacket. Single pair of shoe maybe few extra shirts, T-shirt. This strategy may bite me in the ass at the club doors. The Kiev club scene doesn't look promising anyway. Even the clubs own advertisements uploads shows limited crowd and sausage fest.

I'll do my best, if I can find a decent apartment brothel, it may be my best bet.

I 'l be spending some time in few other cities as well. Prag, Budapest. Few different cities in NL. Depending on my mood I can check some places in this cities as well.

The budget situation, I am not really broke but the way I travel, hostels works best for me. I pick the most centrally located ones and it makes walking around in a limited time doable. If you try to get similarly located hotels, forget it. I leave the place very early and come back late just to crush. Believe it or not I find them very sociable as well but being 42, you generally feel out of bracket. $100 or $150 for quick fix would do for me. A stunner? Maybe 200 but wouldn't do that every day. I can see myself enjoying the windows in NL or other German cities. Since I am not up to doing home work via internet, apps etc, this route and saunas massage parlors seems to be my type I guess. You guys rock though, respect.

[Kozerog]

Not looking for 10's or 9's either. Average looking are fine. I am 42, average looking dude.

I spot a decent looking working (better if she is part time and 20's) chick, approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.

Just how low is your budget? Cheap hostels in Kyiv are for young Ukrainian workers from the provinces. These are like $2/ day and people are wandering in and out at all hours because they work all hours. Like 3rd class "platskarta" on the railways. If you really want to see how the Ukrainian proletariat lives, a Ukrainian hostel is good place to stay. Don't expect anyone to speak much English.

There are also hostels that are as expensive as Airbnb apartments that cater to goofy westerners who like to run up their notch count of cities / countries visited. If the is any chance you will be meeting a local woman, get an Airbnb apartment. $30/ night has plenty of options.

It is possible to meet English speaking pros on the street. I was accosted by one this past summer. Mid 30's or older, overweight, not particular pretty face, pleasant enough personality, typical middle aged Ukrainian woman. I have no idea what she wanted in the way of money, since she didn't interest me, but $100 for a couple hours that afternoon would surely have been enough. Maybe $50. Maybe she needed drug money fast. Didn't look like a drug user, but you never know.

You are unlikely to get civilians in their 20's in 3 days. What you could get is civilians in their late 30's to mid 40's, the proverbial horny MILF trying to live it up one last time before menopause hits. But you'd probably need Russian, since English levels in that age group are poor. Plus you'd need to be a skilled seducer, because civilian Ukrainians have aversion to being considered "easy lays" and usually demand several dates before sex. Offering money just makes things worse, because now her aversion to being considered a prostitute is aroused. Most women fantasize about being highly paid prostitutes, but at the same time, civilians are usually terrified of the label. Short time frame you are operating under will likely cause her to take the safe way out of saying "Nyet!

If you really want to go after civilians, avoid city center. Get your apartment in someplace like Pozniaky and walk around there during the day, try to strike up conversations with middle aged women showing very strong indications of interest. Given your time limits, you need to be ruthless about dumping women who are not clearly down to f*ck immediately. Ask them if they want to come by your apartment right away and share a bottle of wine. If no, move on. This is known as "day game" among pickup artists, and amounts to walking around like a street peddlar crying "Any women want some dick! I got dick if any women want dick! Dick here, come and get it!" Given the low levels of English among these women, I predict you will get nowhere even if you're a master pickup artist.

Another possibility is couch surfing events. Those women are westernized and so may not insist on dating before sex. Young but as horrible as their hipster counterparts in the west: tattooed, short hair, nose rings, unbathed, etc. I see no reason to travel to Ukraine for that sort of human rubbish.

[DramaFree11]

The problem is: Kiev has no "Bahnhofsviertel" and no red light district. Strip clubs are everywhere. But the strip clubs are not at the price level of a "Laufhaus" in the Bahnhofsviertel of Frankfurt.

Of course you can live in a hostel and visit different model addresses. But the price of the girls will surprise you. In the center it is difficult to find a good-looking and (very) cheap hooker.

Walking around the city and looking for working women sounds easy. But you should not think that the city is full of cheap and willing girls. 20 years ago, you just had to walk near the big hotels. In the evening. There were always dozens of prostitutes on the roadside. Not today. Near the "Mc Donalds" (an advice in the forum) there are only normal, hungry people. Students who don't have to work as a prostitute. There might be the chance to find some awful milfs on drugs. But not the beautiful student who needs 1000 hrivna..

Very Good Repot. Guys should pay attention to this report. Detailed and honest. Thank you!

[PhotoSlider]

The problem is: Kiev has no "Bahnhofsviertel" and no red light district. Strip clubs are everywhere. But the strip clubs are not at the price level of a "Laufhaus" in the Bahnhofsviertel of Frankfurt.

...snip...

Internet? I hope you do not trust on various pages with beautiful models. These are all fakes. Many sites still have prices of 500 UAH per hour. With a call you will be told the real price. Which woman will come? A gamble. You call for an 18 year old, slim, blonde student. Who comes? A 35 year old MILF, 20 kilos too much. Maybe a little drunk. Or smelling bad. Or, suddenly, money is required for each additional service. Lick? + 1000 blowjob without a condom? +1000 and so on.

In 2014 or 2015, you would have had a chance. But today only the big show, expensive clothes and money counts.

It is not as bad, but outcome for Tiger12 would be the same: complete and utter failure.

3 days in Kiev? https://kievescort.club/ is one option, but it assumes you have substantial amounts of cash (more than average monger), and invite the lady of choice to your place. Hostel ain't going to work. You are daydreaming.

Visiting apartment brothels would also most likely result in disappointment.

Strip clubs are expensive, and are only good in extracting money from you, selling you the pursuit of happiness, not the actual happiness.

Going trough the streets, or visiting clubs? Why would the girls be interested in you? Most likely you don't speak local language. Another recipe for failure and disappointment. And not because everybody cheats in Kiev. But because your expectations are set wrong. Imagining a free paradise, but instead seeing empty streets, or face (shoes) control and closed doors, and rejection again and again.

I made 2 trips in the last 4 months: first was for 5 weeks with 1-2-3 call girls a day for 1500-2100 UAH / hour. Then second trip was for 3 weeks with 1 girl a day on average. The latter was mostly with contacts I established over years of travel to Kiev. The former was mostly with call girls, and again not through the websites, but rather scouting multiple agencies via Viber. And I am very happy with both trips.

I am significantly older than 42, and am average looking. There are other subtle differences though. I do not roam the streets, thinking of luring the beauties in my bed. In fact I tried, and nothing happened)) but I do have repeat visits with classy providers. Some of them I want to see again and again, and do not want to stop. Prices vary from 1500-2500 UAH / hour to 2000 for overnight for very decent ladies. That type of action is not achieved in 3 days trip, and nobody here on Forum will give out freebies.

Sightseeing in Kiev for 3 days. Yeah, sure, go for it. Great time. You ain't get much traction mongering wise though, unless approach is changed completely.

[Misterxxx]

Hi gents,

Looks like very seasoned hunters are gathering here. Please show me some direction. This spring I am going to tour Europe. Main purpose is sight seeing and the cultural experience but I am also attracted to the beauties of eastern Europe. Not looking for 10's or 9's either. Average looking are fine. I am 42, average looking dude. I have been to Frankfurt as a tourist before and hit the bahnhofsviertel and loved it. I mostly walk around sightseeing all day and when opportunity shows up, I take advantage. So with that being said, I ll be in Kiev for 3 nights. My usual accommodation was hostels in the past. What I read here and there about the Kiev suggest that I should def. Stay in an apartment if I want some ass. I can't decide if I should go to that route or stay in an hostel and hit the establishments to get some action. I also would like to see the club scene. I am not sure if it would be a problem to return to a hostel at 4 am in the morning. If I get an apartment I can go in and out whenever I want I guess. So generally speaking an advise about where should I stay in Kiev would be appreciated.

My plan is simple, walk the city and if I spot a decent looking working (better if she is part time and 20's) chick, approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.

Night time: Hit the clubs, see the game, enjoy the night without getting shitface. Approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.

This plan is somewhat based on what I was able to gather from the internet. If I get some action once a day I am all set. I usually don't rest just walk around visiting the museums etc, therefore I don't have the thirst or energy to do it like a jack rabbit. What you guys say?

The problem is: Kiev has no "Bahnhofsviertel" and no red light district. Strip clubs are everywhere. But the strip clubs are not at the price level of a "Laufhaus" in the Bahnhofsviertel of Frankfurt.

Of course you can live in a hostel and visit different model addresses. But the price of the girls will surprise you. In the center it is difficult to find a good-looking and (very) cheap hooker.

Walking around the city and looking for working women sounds easy. But you should not think that the city is full of cheap and willing girls. 20 years ago, you just had to walk near the big hotels. In the evening. There were always dozens of prostitutes on the roadside. Not today. Near the "Mc Donalds" (an advice in the forum) there are only normal, hungry people. Students who don't have to work as a prostitute. There might be the chance to find some awful milfs on drugs. But not the beautiful student who needs 1000 hrivna.

There is a street in the Podil district. And different exits on highways. There you will find cheap hookers. But to find these women you need a car. Many sex tourists think that every woman who looks at them is a hooker. Searching for clients. But in reality, most girl only think negatively: Another sex tourist. A weird guy. Another nasty Arab. Finally: Your plan will not work. Or you have to prepare well, search for a long time. And at the same time lowering your demands on the quality of women.

If a hostel is your budget then the girls in the clubs will be too expensive for you. $ 50? Forget it. The first offer is usually 200-300 dollars. Then it depends on you and the situation if you have to pay less. You look good and have good manners? Then the price goes down. Or the woman needs money. Very urgent. Still, $ 100 is the minimum in the clubs. Rather, calculate it with 150 or 200 dollars. But here too, it depends on the quality you are looking for. The really good clubs may not let you in at all. Doormen can be cruel.

Internet? I hope you do not trust on various pages with beautiful models. These are all fakes. Many sites still have prices of 500 UAH per hour. With a call you will be told the real price. Which woman will come? A gamble. You call for an 18 year old, slim, blonde student. Who comes? A 35 year old MILF, 20 kilos too much. Maybe a little drunk. Or smelling bad. Or, suddenly, money is required for each additional service. Lick? + 1000 blowjob without a condom? +1000 and so on.

In 2014 or 2015, you would have had a chance. But today only the big show, expensive clothes and money counts.

[Tigers12]

Hi gents,

Looks like very seasoned hunters are gathering here. Please show me some direction. This spring I am going to tour Europe. Main purpose is sight seeing and the cultural experience but I am also attracted to the beauties of eastern Europe. Not looking for 10's or 9's either. Average looking are fine. I am 42, average looking dude. I have been to Frankfurt as a tourist before and hit the bahnhofsviertel and loved it. I mostly walk around sightseeing all day and when opportunity shows up, I take advantage. So with that being said, I ll be in Kiev for 3 nights. My usual accommodation was hostels in the past. What I read here and there about the Kiev suggest that I should def. Stay in an apartment if I want some ass. I can't decide if I should go to that route or stay in an hostel and hit the establishments to get some action. I also would like to see the club scene. I am not sure if it would be a problem to return to a hostel at 4 am in the morning. If I get an apartment I can go in and out whenever I want I guess. So generally speaking an advise about where should I stay in Kiev would be appreciated.

My plan is simple, walk the city and if I spot a decent looking working (better if she is part time and 20's) chick, approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.

Night time: Hit the clubs, see the game, enjoy the night without getting shitface. Approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.

This plan is somewhat based on what I was able to gather from the internet. If I get some action once a day I am all set. I usually don't rest just walk around visiting the museums etc, therefore I don't have the thirst or energy to do it like a jack rabbit. What you guys say?

[Kozerog]

I don't mind paying upfront, but she since she didn't mention it, so I gave her the money in the last day.

And I don't mind when guys richer than me pay more than I can afford. Word gets out that there is big money to be earned from sex tourists and that makes more girls willing to be semi-pros, which is good for all of us. Yes, the rumors of $1500 for 3 days might cause some girls to raise their rates, but they will soon find the supply of big spenders is not that large and so lower their rates back to a level I can afford.

What I mind is when market participants encourage bad behavior, which exactly what paying in advance does. Losses due to bad behavior cause the marketplace to shrink as everyone adjusts prices to compensate (girls raise their prices, mongers lower theirs) so that the market no longer clears. Fine example is DramaFree11. Wants to monger, can afford going rates, assigns very high cost to feeling of being cheated, and since cheating is so common in Kyiv, finally abandoned the market entirely.

There is absolutely no reason to pay for three days in advance, and also no reason to delay payment until the third day. I wouldn't accept such delay if I was the girl. Pay one day at a time, money on the table until end of day. You were lucky this time, but you really need to put your foot down in the future.

The argument I plan to use, assuming I ever have to replace my jewel, is that only cheap restaurants like McDonald's make you pay in advance. At fine restaurants, you pay after eating. Does the girl think of herself as cheap takeout or fine dining? Before she can reply, I will offer to put money on the table until end of session, bills spread out out so they can be counted by eye. I didn't need to use the preceding argument with my jewel, since she understood immediately what I was up to: money was spread out on the table when she arrived, she had the good manners to leave it there until she was packing up to leave, and that's how we operated ever since. Back when I was using those hidden agencies, I also didn't use the preceding argument but rather had the girl call the agency and then shouted into the phone that either money remained on table until end of session or deal was off. Shouting like that not exactly the way to make a good first impression on a girl, of course.

And no, do not ever put money in an envelope. Either spread bills so they can be counted by eye or insist that girl count in your presence. Reason is YOU might make an error. If so and girl doesn't notice until later, then either she says nothing and feels wronged or she tells you and you suspect her of lying. Bad deal all around. Always count cash in front of the other person, for any type of business.

[AntonySun1996]

One important question though: did you pay her the whole fee upfront? I wouldn't.

No I don't. I don't mind paying upfront, but she since she didn't mention it, so I gave her the money in the last day.

[Kirch]

You are totally right Photoslider. Same for me, I am one of them who were trying to convince that Rio. In the end. Is the better deal. But no understanding and of course different tastes. I am here for 2 weeks again (after about 15 visits this year) and don't post anymore. I am more relaxed here and the same happens to me, I am not hunting anymore. I go out with friends here with no expectations and get to know new girls. And every once and a while I hit Rio like last week. She stayed entire Night and we left Rio at 08:30 pm (She left my Hotel at 01:00 pm next day. 400 USD for whole Night, that's 25 USD / HR. And she was (in my eyes) a 9! So I like Kiev nowadays, it has changed. But I like this change and I come even more often.

IMHO one of the frequent reasons for Senior members departure / disappearance from the Forum is simple. They establish a network of reliable female contacts in Kiev, and neither seek help anymore, nor see any sense in posting their reports here.

My last visit was yet again one of the best, although different in the way that I wasn't chasing them women anymore. The opposite happened.

Why didn't I post a report? Well, for many reasons. Would it be useful? Maybe as an essay on the subject, but certainly not as an information source. I cannot post WhatsApp or Viber phone numbers of my contacts. I do exchange with few well respected members via PM in a mutually beneficial manner, and am rather thankful to this Forum for such an opportunity.

The rest has been explained here over and over: GIA / KEC vs. Apartments vs. Rio vs. Websites and so on and so forth.

Waiting for the next visit.

[PhotoSlider]

...We agreed on an amount around $1200 for two days but later made it $1500 for three days. I knew some forum members would still say that I overpaid, but I'm still satisfied about this deal

Better rate than GIA / KEC. $200-300 is OK for 3-6-8 hours, but risky when the girl is new, and precisely for the reasons you explained below.

The first day she did pretty well. We had sex several times a day in nearly all possible positions that I could handle, with passion or horniness. The second day went less well. She was angry in the morning for not having slept well and was reluctant to sex

That is why I try booking an apartment with 2 bedrooms or good sleeping sofa in the living room. Then both myself and my visiting lady can get a good night's sleep. Or sometimes my girlfriend sleeps separately, and I have visitors in the relative privacy of my bedroom)).

but I took the initiate and she was happy again after a nice orgasm. However from the morning of the third day she became angry and refused to get up. She accused me of touching her boobs and fingering her pussy all night while she was asleep. That accusation, of course, was exaggerated since I just did it a few times because I couldn't control myself not to do that.

Hehehe. Exactly! I am the same, and try to sleep separately, or no one is rested in the morning.

In my many years only a handful of girls were constantly horny. One of them, employed at GIA at the time, was all smiles whenever I woke her up, but that is rare.

Another GIA-employee didn't allow me to depart to the other bedroom, yet towards the end of our 10 days "tenure", she asked literally:

- Don't you ever get tired of this? Where do you find this level of energy?

She likewise tried to decline on our last day right before leaving, then succumbed, but looked tormented during the act. Fortunately it didn't hurt my feelings or fragile male ego, but helped to decide not to seek this particular lady anymore. In fact I realized that 2-3 days together is realistically the reasonable limit for staying together.

And yet another GIA employee tried to extort cash while not delivering in bed, thinking too much of the control her beauty, femininity and sharp brains had over me. Her reckless behavior resulted in my sooner and more frequent than usual promiscuity, while she was at work in the office. This was followed by rather abrupt eviction and no further contact attempts.

Anyway, we had some fight and she went back to sleep for almost the whole day. We had a rough sex later in the evening though, when she was happy again.).

Make no mistake. She certainly liked $1500 she made, and wanted to leave a good final impression, so that you would return.

At least you were in Kiev, and could have diversified at any moment. Imagine how much more leverage she would have had over you, if it happened on the trip together somewhere else. Still I know one successful gentleman, who never hesitates to politely kick them out lazy cheaters, -- being it in Kiev, or Thailand (with Ukrainian girl), or anywhere else.

It is always a game of the girl testing how little she can get away with. Some are more open and passionate on the second encounter, while others became too spoiled and lazy. And I don't want to fight or explain. It is not my place to teach them a lesson. So much easier to say goodbye, ignore, block in Viber+IG, and invite another willing one. So far it's possible in Kiev.

One important question though: did you pay her the whole fee upfront? I wouldn't.

It is fine line though. Some of us pre-negotiate all the conditions in detail. I prefer to see how much I can gain, as the action unfolds. Than it gives me more pleasure. But few things are mandatory, and by quality of initial kissing and touching I can quickly assess how good it is going to be, even before we make it to bed.

Going on the tangent here, my favorite call girl 3 weeks ago in Kiev was on her first day working. After exiting from the shower, she took a seat on my bed, sipped champagne and said (with a noticeable concern):

- They do not let us kiss.

I responded in a very respectful manner:

- Yes, I most definitely understand and respect that.

Then touched her lips tenderly with mine, and in a split of a second we went for a long DFK. What can be better? Not even a DATY with the girl who initially firmly refused.

This September I had 3 new girls one after another progressing to a complementary DATY. Typically agency asks for 500-1000 UAH on top of the regular hourly fee. One girl had an audacity to demand an extra pay for touching her breasts. Or was it kissing them? Do not remember anymore.

And this November-December trip has been great in a sense that most girls were willing to meet bypassing the agency dispatchers. Again, complimentary DFK, DATY with half of them, and on some occasions, - a passionate 69 with BBBJ, twice even to completion.

With one beauty I didn't dare to come, and in the heat of the moment asked her:

- Do you realize how difficult it was for me to restrain myself, and not come in your mouth?

She smiled and answered:

- No, I actually do not.

I will still be in Kiev for next few days and will meet another girl from my previous trips. Will report if there are any useful stuffs.

Please do. You are sincere in your observations, which makes them worthwhile sharing.

[PhotoSlider]

What happened to Barba and little Joey?

IMHO one of the frequent reasons for Senior members departure / disappearance from the Forum is simple. They establish a network of reliable female contacts in Kiev, and neither seek help anymore, nor see any sense in posting their reports here.

My last visit was yet again one of the best, although different in the way that I wasn't chasing them women anymore. The opposite happened.

Why didn't I post a report? Well, for many reasons. Would it be useful? Maybe as an essay on the subject, but certainly not as an information source. I cannot post WhatsApp or Viber phone numbers of my contacts. I do exchange with few well respected members via PM in a mutually beneficial manner, and am rather thankful to this Forum for such an opportunity.

The rest has been explained here over and over: GIA / KEC vs. Apartments vs. Rio vs. Websites and so on and so forth.

Waiting for the next visit.

[Member #4722]

Does Mamba not allow VIPs to change location anymore?

[Member #4722]

What happened to Barba and little Joey?