Kyiv

[GDreams]

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

I have not been to Kiev for some time. When I was working in Africa I went a lot, racking up about three years of my life spent there and marrying a local. I kept it very simple. Put down the relevant info on your profile and send a message like. 'I will be in Kiev in 2 weeks, do you want to meet?

If the answer is yes then ask for a phone number. If you are going to ask anything ask what are some nice restaurants, what are your favourite places to visit etc. I still use that approach for other areas I visit and it still works. Most guys never turn up so girls will often do not want to invest time unless you arrive. When you arrive be prepared. Out of 10 girls 5 will not show up, 2 won't like you, 2 you won't like and there will be the one you hit it off with! Enjoy!

[DramaFree11]

Kozerog once mentioned something about grinding through a junk heap to find a gem. Well, it works the other way too. Girls have to grind their way to a good sponsor. As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.

My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.

Traveling from Sweden, to Kiev will be a major down grade. Let's try to give some constructive feedback.

[Riina]

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

Kozerog once mentioned something about grinding through a junk heap to find a gem. Well, it works the other way too. Girls have to grind their way to a good sponsor. As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.

My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.

[FuckedUpSwede]

I have read a good portion of the thread with great pleasure. I live in Sweden, as my avatar suggest, and I am not a seasoned monger.

Kiev is a short, and cheap, flight from Stockholm. I have never visited Ukraine before, I mostly travel inside Sweden for work and sometimes to the European cities for work and for leisure. I am 45 years old and reasonably fit.

I created a profile on Mamba. I put in a phrase in English telling that I am a businessman travelling in Europe that want some intellectual, and maybe, physically stimuli when travelling thru Kiev. I told my real age, told I am a bit overweight (80 kg /174 cm), high income (I suppose I have in comparison to Ukraine), put a nice photo of myself in a swimming pool drinking a Pina Colada and gave it a shot. I sent out a generic "Hi" to approx 20 females from 25-45 that accepted my age and spoke English (according to their profile).

Most did not answer at all, some put me on ignore and a few answered with bad English.

One that answered was 35 and directly started to try to control me, asking for photos in different angles and asked why I was bothering her. I told her that I wanted some company when in Kiev and she sent me a Viber number and told me to contact her when in Kiev.

The others spoke such bad English so I just deleted them. I do not only want to fuck, I want to hang out with them for a day and see Kiev.

Round 2.20 new candidates, same outcome. One with reasonably good English and also interest.

She is 40, lives with her grown up son in a 25 sqm apartment in a grey suburb earning $300 a month just covering rent. A bit old but looked nice and I told her I want to meet her and walk around Kiev for a day including lunch and a fancy dinner. I thought she would be super happy with this deal. No fucking was ever mentioned. Just walk around for a day with a nice gentleman from Sweden. She answers "I not have shoes for walking" "you buy shoes" "I have size 35" and then sends me a link to some shoes for 6800 UAH. I tell her, perfectly true, that I am not a poor guy, I earn over average in Sweden, but I drive around in a old Toyota and live in a small house in the woods. She replied with some rude comments and I ended conversation.

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

[Michi T]

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and their's a pace that can't be forced.

Having enough time, no pressure, is a "must".

[PhotoSlider]

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and there's a pace that can't be forced.

Golden words! That's why I do not go for 3-4 day trips anymore. Even 2 weeks is not enough. That could also be why AFAIK expats do not post here on our Forum. They establish relationships and stay happy without listening to nonsense about how terrible Kiev is.

[Riina]

I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and their's a pace that can't be forced.

[PhotoSlider]

This is so symbolic! One guys says:

- Dreams are your reality.

The other responds:

- Think what you want.

Is there a fool-proof way to assess the qualities of lady in question, those qualities that truly matter to a particular customer? Is there a role model lady that would satisfy the strictest requirements by everybody?

VK pix may not be as glamorous, but I tend to be on Michi T side, as obviously Julia made him proud and happy. IMO that is most important. She is not with MisterXXX, and as much as he is entitled to his opinion, and freedom to express it, unless he met her face to face, it doesn't matter.

I wouldn't call the girl ugly, and bottom line, as they said in "Pulp Fiction", personality goes a long way!

I had repeated visits from a young student, she took a train ride 3 hours one way, but that's beyond the point. Now looking at her pictures, I know MisterXXX would surely disapprove of her. Yet, currently she is my favorite. Does it mean I am omnivorous, indiscriminate? Well, that maybe I am but she is special in many ways even outside the bed, and the manner, in which she behaves, touches my soul beyond any hope for my recovery in the nearest future. To most on the Forum her photos would not mean anything, and to me she is the most beautiful. Her legs are so long, her smile, her eyes, and the way they change when we discuss something of extreme interest to both of us, her smile, and our first kiss at the small cafe, and how later in the cab it went slightly longer, and then deeper, and then I asked her:

- Do you want to come to my place? If you don't, that will not change anything.

And she responded in shy but persistent voice:

- Yes, I do.

How can you discern, recognize all of this magic in the picture posted on our Forum?

Pointless argument. Dreams are our reality indeed, and we'll think what we want.

[DramaFree11]

Had a great week in my home town with the girl from Kiev. Not a working girl, a normal girl which I met in real life.

Happy new year to all of you!

Nice looking girl, good job!

[DramaFree11]

And I've never been there myself. Also, I'm not really questioning DramaFree11's views. It's just seeing how he flips from black to white when going from Kyiv to Moscow is mind-boggling. I should have read the Moscow thread long ago, and highly recommend that thread to others here, just to get some perspective, even if you never plan to visit Moscow.

My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys. That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.

Sorry, I have to completely disagree, again. There is zero comparison. I will agree Kiev is Cheaper, but not by much anymore. Hard work pays off, that is why am successful in both Moscow and Parts of Mexico. You might want to read all my posts. Lived in Kiev, no way I can have the quality of girls that I am now having in both Mexico and Russia now. Please read all my posts. I am very critical of Kiev, because of the details you guys leave out about Kiev. (Too Many Sex Tourists, Scams, Lies, Lack of Quality Women, the City is dead after 9 pm.) I have always K said that Kiev is average with bellow average night life. If that is what you are looking then go. Why fly around the world to bang 5-6's, I can have that in America for free or all day in Mexico.

Again, I ask you guys to think about newbies, the details some leave out about Kiev is amazing.

[Michi T]

Had a great week in my home town with the girl from Kiev. Not a working girl, a normal girl which I met in real life.

Happy new year to all of you!

[DramaFree11]

And I've never been there myself. Also, I'm not really questioning DramaFree11's views. It's just seeing how he flips from black to white when going from Kyiv to Moscow is mind-boggling. I should have read the Moscow thread long ago, and highly recommend that thread to others here, just to get some perspective, even if you never plan to visit Moscow.

My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys. That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.

Sorry, I have to completely disagree, again. There is zero comparison. I will agree Kiev is cheaper, but not by much anymore. Hard work pays off, that is why am successful in both Moscow and Parts of Mexico. You might want to read all my posts. Lived in Kiev, no way I can have the quality of girls that I am now having in both Mexico and Russia. Please read all my posts, before you make they accusations. I am very critical of Kiev, because of the details you guys leave out about Kiev. (Too Many Sex Tourists, Scams, Lies, Lack of quality women, the City is dead after 9 pm.) I have always Kiev said that Kiev is average with bellow average night life. If that is what you are looking then go. Why fly around the world to bang 5-6's, I can have that in America or all day in Mexico.

Again, I ask you guys to think about newbies, the details some leave out about Kiev is amazing.

[PhotoSlider]

...My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys.

Perhaps also more tolerance and resilience. In this business I do expect a certain percentage of failures, mistreatment, and unprofessional behavior from providers. But my objective is not to fix their mean evil vile filthy practices. The objective is to have great time with ladies delivered to my door. And I am relentless and consistent in reaching that goal.

I am reasonably picky, and even with my consolidation dispatchers I am respectful and engaged in a civilized conversation with good portion of humor. Maybe that is one of the reasons why they try a little harder for me. Surely though, primary reason is monetary, as quite often I order 2-3-4 girls a day just for myself, plus sometimes for my friend, I do not negotiate much, and communication with me is clear and logical. They understand what I want. I treat the girls nicely most of the time, do not abuse. Visiting ladies spread the word upon returning to the base, and very much want repeat visits themselves. Those that leave me their phone numbers, visit later bypassing agency involvement, as they feel safe, and do not need to shell out part of their pay for protection.

That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results...

Agree.

I believe I hear your main point. I had similar reservations against girls in Russia, especially after so much pleasure in Ukraine.

In 2013 I traveled to the Russian side of Black Sea. Novorossiysk, Gelendzhik, Anapa, Krasnodar, and, stupid me, expected all that cheating and scams from ugly lazy fat asses. On the contrary! To be precise, the girls weren't exactly Russian, but mostly representatives of small and large ethnic groups in Caucasian mountains like Chechen, Ossetian, Adhyge and Abkhazian. Not sure if this affected anything, as I do not really care about ethnicity, nationality, religion, skin color, and so on. Ossetian one drained me completely! Extended her twice, borrowing money from the roommate, going almost non-stop and drinking champagne. The best one was the Chechen girl. After we were done, she laid on her back visibly satisfied, and exclaimed:

- O-hu-I-tel'-no! This was fucking great!

So I reversed my opinion. Yet again, to be honest this was not Moscow.

The area is a big melting pot, just like Ukraine, Russia, US or any large European country nowadays. In fact Ukrainian Cossack have been relocated by Catherine The Great from Zaporizhya to Kuban', and later on, part of Kuban' for few years have been included in Ukraine. There is still a strong Ukrainian accent all over the place, but that doesn't really change anything.

My statement is simple: I do not and can not possibly have an opinion about Moscow. Extrapolation from prior visits can not be trusted. Relying on Forums, chats, emails, what friends and others say, is of limited use. I am positive that there are happy sex tourists in Moscow. It is all in the eye of beholder, and as Kozerog rightfully stated, reaching success requires work and discipline. I would also add smart work and skill, just like in any business. Mongering is no different. Supply-demand in free market economy plus particular properties, features and qualities characteristic for Ukraine.

As many others, I am thoroughly happy about the state of affairs in Kiev, and not just for mongering. In fact, right now a friend of mine from Western country is in Kiev, and I am so jealous, and at the same time so happy reading his daily reports! He only speaks English. Empty streets and students going home for holidays didn't affect his mongering schedule. He didn't go to clubs or for strip entertainment, not even call girls, but rather relied partially on his prior contacts, and relentlessly worked on establishing new ones. As we exchanged our ladies, I can swear with my hand on the Bible and without any doubt that his ladies are top notch, he doesn't overpay, and he is doing great year after year.

YMMV, yet IMO rumors of Kiev demise are greatly exaggerated.

[Kozerog]

Cannot say anything about Moscow, as luckily (tongue in cheek) I wasn't there since 2002.
.

And I've never been there myself. Also, I'm not really questioning DramaFree11's views. It's just seeing how he flips from black to white when going from Kyiv to Moscow is mind-boggling. I should have read the Moscow thread long ago, and highly recommend that thread to others here, just to get some perspective, even if you never plan to visit Moscow.

My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys. That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.

[PhotoSlider]

...sounds like PhotoSlider here in this Kiev forum: mostly successes with a few failures. Meanwhile, another guy named CzarNicholas trashes Moscow the same way DramaFree11 trashes Kiev: websites all hidden agencies, fake photos, girl that finally arrives is fat pig who he only accepted because tired of fighting for something better, constant upselling and other ways to extract more money from clients, etc.

Cannot say anything about Moscow, as luckily (tongue in cheek) I wasn't there since 2002.

As far as upselling in Kiev, I see it no more than 1 in 10, and shut it down right away. In September of 2016 there was one highly intelligent and extremely hot student girl named Brittany that sold her DFK for 20 USD fifteen minutes into intercourse, and I wanted her so badly, that didn't even think twice. At that time in my life I did not push for extras and has been content with with whatever was on the menu, but she was so sweet and desirable, and I felt that she wanted to kiss, but deep down in her mind there was a price sticker for that!

Afterwards she was laying there under the blanket, covering half of her face, not believing her own eyes of what just happened with this guy 33 years older than her. And few minutes later she tried to explain her doubts about herself being a worthy person, to which I objected wholeheartedly and in the most convincing manner, as indeed she made me very happy.

Was this upsell a failure? Cheating?

Anyway. What is the trustworthy criteria for success versus failure? Certainly not 1-10 rating. Punctuality, on-time delivery seems important. I value my time, as there are things aside form mongering that make my schedule rather tight in Kiev. More than once I told my consolidation dispatchers to cancel the girls in-route, as I waited too long, and driver or somebody else lied about the estimated time of arrival. Couple times it pissed me off and affected decision making when the girls were finally at my curbside for casting, to the point of being too irritated to accept anybody.

At the same time one particular lady made a big deal about my demands and encroachment on her personal time. She took her sweet time to order taxi, and arrive, while texting all the usual Kiev lady lies about traffic and such. And yet I was happy with her. She is a great kisser, and even better in other matters. Once, after a few weeks of typical excuses, cancellations and no-shows, I had her beautiful derriere in my hands, and as we were already no less than 30 minutes into a great doggie style, I asked her in the most serious voice:

- Why you did not arrive earlier? What took you so long!

And breathing heavily, she sincerely exclaimed:

- I'll be better! I'll fix myself! -- Ya ispravljus'.

Was it a failure? I had her repeatedly for 3+ hours sessions and paid 2000 UAH for each. To me she is top 5 for the last 14 months, and not because of price, but as a perfomer. Met her by pure luck, when around 1 am one night she arrived as a roommate of my friend's girl. Yesterday received warmest NYE wishes from her and request to meet ASAP.

It is all subjective. I am sure ladies in Moscow are what you make of them. Mistreat and suspect, tell them they are cheaters, and service quality will deteriorate. AFAIK, Ukrainian ladies have stronger character, are less submissive, more independently minded, and that's the way I like them. Free spirited, feminine and after good foreplay no lubricant required.