Kyiv

[PhotoSlider]

Is it normal to pay the same fee for a walk around town as for sex?

This is actually one of the FAQs with Kiev Agencies. And their answer is simple:

- You pay for the time with the lady. What you do during that time, watch a movie at the cinema, have a dinner, make love, or walk around the city, is up to you.

Make no mistake, girls want to make money to pay for rent, food, manicure, summer shoes with high heels or warm winter boots, so that they continue to look great and make more money. Even semi-pro mindset is not that far from yours, while you were driving a cab at a certain rate per kilometer and a minute. In that respect you answered your own question.

There is obviously a price difference between walking hand in hand admiring Kiev architecture, and having anal sex. That is why pros and semi-pros want to know how many hours, how much, and what is expected.

She may go with you for a walk, if trust has been established in prior visits, but even beforehand it should make sense to her. As Kozerog stated, be a good repeat customer. If she sees in you reasonable potential, that has been realized in the past, she will continue, as long as there's nobody better. It's constant hunting for a better suitor.

[DramaFree11]

Couple things you can change to get more success in Kiev:

The first one GDreams explained the best. Be concise, and do not give too much information, go straight to the point: "I am in Kiev right now. Would like to meet" No need to explain your age. The initial objective is simple. Get her phone number, and arrange for a meeting.

The second one Kozerog described in sufficient detail. Kiev ladies want respect and money. They can feel even a smallest hint of you lacking self-confidence, and you thinking badly of them. That is why many foreign visitors come to Kiev, expecting local females with no income swarming and begging to get fucked, and instead those visitors are ignored.

This is precisely why Riina found his gold mine of Ukrainian students in Chicago. He treats them nicely, and not just money-wise.

Going further away from the subject at hand, I never ask for a call girl's personal phone number when we are just starting in my apartment for the first time ever. I want her to feel that she is special. And to my taste, many of them indeed deserve to be thought of as special ones. Then my chances at great love making improve significantly, and if the lady is pleased, especially if she has orgasm, she may give me her phone number upon departure, and as Kozerog said, I may eventually turn her into my LT GF..

Very good post, honest and sincere. We may disagree about a lot of things about Kiev, but I do appreciate this post. Good job.

[PhotoSlider]

As an aside, lots of guys categorize women on a scale of 1-10. I use 3 categories myself: (A) does not attract me sexually; (B) attracts me, but I would hate to be stuck with her for several years; (C) attracts me enough that I would be willing to see her frequently for at least several years. Category (B) I now try to avoid, because it means I am going after a woman I really don't think that highly of, either for looks or personality, and she will detect that and resent it, guaranteeing a bad experience. Much better to keep going until I find a woman from category (C).

Great concept! That is perhaps what I use subconsciously as well while casting the call girls in the cab or on a sidewalk.

There are those that I want badly (C), those that I will not have (A), and those that I do not mind having (B).

After we start interacting in my kitchen, and later on in the bedroom, (B) may magically transform into a (C) as I want her again and again.

Similarly (C) may get downgraded to (B), and very seldom even to an (A).

I do get an occasional misfire when the girl passes the initial screening. Due to the lowered guard (tired or drunk and desperately horny), I may ignore the first signs of her not being up to specs, and then get disappointed. Not really disappointed because I lost money, but mostly because I always try to not simply copulate and ejaculate, but make it work at a higher level, between two persons. Also because a couple hours of my precious time is lost. Picking 2-3 candidates via Viber, while making jokes with dispatcher, then 20-30-40 minutes for their cab ride to me, 60 minutes action at my place, and at least another 20 to restart the process.

Questionably, there exists also a fourth category (D). Those women that I wanted badly during the initial casting, that were good or even very good for the hour, except I am not interested in seeing them anymore. Most of the time it is either hygiene or their mental health related. Some of them try to control me, or try too hard to please, or are too submissive, or something else I can not explain. I may even have the fondest memory and no desire to see her again, period. It could also be the girl offering herself in the way that is too obvious, and I want to have an illusion of winning her over, impression that she is not as easy to get by anybody, and that I made the choice, even though ultimately the decision is hers. Also any attempt to establish monogamy or limit my freedom leads to rejection.

Well, enough self praise.

[FuckedUpSwede]

I just love the brutal honesty of you guys!

My meaning is really not to be "condescending" and when you display it this way I understand why I failed. I also failed to see thru the structure of online dating. I have done psychological tests and it turned out that I am extremely logical but have a hard time understanding emotions. Maybe that is the explanation. I will try to work the other way and only contact women that really attract me and are obvious semi pros. I just think it would be unnecessarily expensive, and a waste of their time, to have a walk around town with me and have dinner. I do not hire a surgeon to help me fix my car. Even if the surgeon could do it. I do not see my mechanic as a lesser being because I do not hire him to do a vasectomy. I did not intend to have sex with this women. I did nothing to even hint that. I cannot understand why she see that as a threat but I listen and learn from people who understands this game better than me. I understand machines, I am a mechanical engineer.

Is it normal to pay the same fee for a walk around town as for sex? I ask because I have had this argument when I was driving a cab (I did when I was studying). I got a call to two women standing beside a car with a flat tire. They wanted to go quite a distance to their home, approx 50 euro, I asked what the problem was. They replied that they did not know how to change tire. I said I could change the tire for 50 euro instead of driving them home. They got perplexed and asked "are you allowed to do this, you are a taxi driver" I said "my boss do not care shit as long as he gets a fair share to pay for the time of this taxi standing still and I do not really care what kind of work I am doing as long as it pays me at least the same as driving this cab" the agreed, I changed tire in approx 10 min for 50 euro and everyone was happy.

I also once let a really fat ugly old lady suck my dick while driving the cab to her destination. I got 50 Euro tip and was happy with this. I did do the mistake to tell my former wife about this incident (we was not married when the incident took place, I was single). She did not see this the way I did, as a funny incident that gave me some extra cash. She hit me with a load of disgust.

[PhotoSlider]

I listen and I learn from you more veteran mongers. Maybe I just go to Kiev to check it out, there is a club I want to visit there anyway "Closer" and that is for non mongering reasons, I just love trance music.

I can "pass thru" quite often since I travel a lot in Europe in business and no one will care if I go thru Kiev or Frankfurt or whatever.

What irritates me is that I targeted quite old women and this particular one claimed she was sitting at home alone on new years eve because there is no men in Ukraine.

I mean, if a reasonable looking female approached me on mamba and asked me if I could show her Stockholm and she would pay a fancy restaurant I would go for it just for fun. And I am not poor sitting alone in a 25 sqm flat. I partied my brains out in Seville on new year feeling a bit sorry for her! "I not have shoes" give me a fucking brake.

Couple things you can change to get more success in Kiev:

The first one GDreams explained the best. Be concise, and do not give too much information, go straight to the point: "I am in Kiev right now. Would like to meet" No need to explain your age. The initial objective is simple. Get her phone number, and arrange for a meeting.

The second one Kozerog described in sufficient detail. Kiev ladies want respect and money. They can feel even a smallest hint of you lacking self-confidence, and you thinking badly of them. That is why many foreign visitors come to Kiev, expecting local females with no income swarming and begging to get fucked, and instead those visitors are ignored.

This is precisely why Riina found his gold mine of Ukrainian students in Chicago. He treats them nicely, and not just money-wise.

Going further away from the subject at hand, I never ask for a call girl's personal phone number when we are just starting in my apartment for the first time ever. I want her to feel that she is special. And to my taste, many of them indeed deserve to be thought of as special ones. Then my chances at great love making improve significantly, and if the lady is pleased, especially if she has orgasm, she may give me her phone number upon departure, and as Kozerog said, I may eventually turn her into my LT GF.

Have one for almost 5 years now, and I meet her every time I am in Kiev. The very first time we went for a date, because her friend, a masseuse at Relax couldn't go out with me, and I treated that masseuse very well during massage instead of demanding to be pleased by lowly creature that is beneath me.

Another GF is with me 3+ years after initial encounter at Rio. Could have written a movie script about our first and second act.

Another one 2+ years. She herself is a different masseuse from Relax. Keeps writing to me, because she needs attention, and she likes our conversations. I do too. Highly intelligent lady. I like meeting with her in person even better, as words can not describe her skills!

Do I worship every Ukrainian girl that I meet? Certainly not. Still, if she passes the initial screening, I prefer to think that she is a good person, who I want to be with. This attitude helps me to open up better side of them. Maybe 20-30% do not live up to my expectations and fail the actual screening in bed. Well, you can't always get what you want. The World is far from being perfect. But more than 50% of those that I like, give me their phone number. A third of them later decide not to respond, that is easy to give away the phone number, and not respond. Another third respond, and never meet. And another third meet, and just like Kozerog explained, I retain them as LT GFs. This transition is difficult to execute in a short 3-5 days visit. I had it done, but it's difficult. Kiev girls want at least a resemblance of courtship.

As far as Kiev girls being afraid to be seen with us drooling mongers, yes, I had experienced that too. And some of them after learning that I am a decent human being, treating them with dignity and even sufficient well measured admiration they forget those precautions, and go out to Avalon and other equally public places. I do not go to Clubs at all though.

Best of luck to all who is continuing field research on the ground, and separate thanks to those who share and submit honest reports.

[Kozerog]

What irritates me is that I targeted quite old women and this particular one claimed she was sitting at home alone on new years eve because there is no men in Ukraine.

Above sentence comes across as "condescending", meaning you see yourself as having a lot more to offer than this woman, and therefore you are doing her a big favor by contacting her. Nobody likes being in the inferior position like that, and women especially hate the feeling of lacking sexual power over men, and that how she probably felt. You were not that excited by her, and she could sense that, so she acted defensively.

As an aside, lots of guys categorize women on a scale of 1-10. I use 3 categories myself: (A) does not attract me sexually; (B) attracts me, but I would hate to be stuck with her for several years; (C) attracts me enough that I would be willing to see her frequently for at least several years. Category (B) I now try to avoid, because it means I am going after a woman I really don't think that highly of, either for looks or personality, and she will detect that and resent it, guaranteeing a bad experience. Much better to keep going until I find a woman from category (C).

It's well known that online dating is mainly used by civilian women for attention. That is, civilian women mostly create profiles to see how many likes and messages they can get, so as to boost their ego, with no intention of ever meeting anyone. I fooled around with civilian online dating in Ukraine long ago and found out to be a big waste of time. By contrast, escorts (or their agencies) create online profiles to get real business. If they are sometimes abrupt, it's because they are defending against timewasters, meaning guys who contact sex workers for the excitement of talking to a live woman about sex, but then go off and masturbate without ever paying them anything.

[FuckedUpSwede]

I listen and I learn from you more veteran mongers. Maybe I just go to Kiev to check it out, there is a club I want to visit there anyway "Closer" and that is for non mongering reasons, I just love trance music.

I can "pass thru" quite often since I travel a lot in Europe in business and no one will care if I go thru Kiev or Frankfurt or whatever.

What irritates me is that I targeted quite old women and this particular one claimed she was sitting at home alone on new years eve because there is no men in Ukraine.

I mean, if a reasonable looking female approached me on mamba and asked me if I could show her Stockholm and she would pay a fancy restaurant I would go for it just for fun. And I am not poor sitting alone in a 25 sqm flat. I partied my brains out in Seville on new year feeling a bit sorry for her! "I not have shoes" give me a fucking brake.

[Kozerog]

I am 45 years old and reasonably fit. I created a profile on Mamba. I put in a phrase in English telling that I am a businessman travelling in Europe that want some intellectual, and maybe, physically stimuli when travelling thru Kiev.

If you are just passing through Kyiv, then you probably need to go after girls / women who have consciously accepted that they are escorts for rent on an hourly basis. That is, unless the girl makes it clear in her mamba profile that she's at least a semi-pro escort, don't bother. Then grind your way through a bunch of these escorts to find those with whom there is mutual attraction, then become a repeat customer.

How to find escorts? RTFF, last two years at least. Basically, consensus is there are 4 options: strip clubs, kievescort. Club, hidden agencies, true independents (from mamba and elsewhere). KEC is expensive but probably best choice for beginners who are short on time, unless you're the type who wants to see, talk to and touch girls first, in which case strip clubs best. If using hidden agencies, then you should strive to be a repeat and well-behaved customer of the agency, which is something I neglected to do back when I was using them, which is another reason I was not as successful with them as PhotoSlider. (he's definitely right about my lack of resilience / tolerance in the face of failure. My desire for sex is weak at this point, so it doesn't take much to make me throw in the towel and do something else instead.).

As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.

Yes. OP sounds like a lot of guys (including me) who want something more like a mistress (paid girlfriend) than just sex only. It's conceivable to turn a regular girlfriend into a mistress, or equivalently, use wealth to make yourself more attractive to civilian girls as a boyfriend. However, for many reasons, including being categorized as junky foreign sex tourist initially, I think it's easier to go the other way, and take an escort hired initially for one hour, and convert her into a mistress (paid long-term girlfriend with whom there is some emotional connection). That's what I did. By starting with a true independent, there is no problem of getting the agency or strip club out of the way, and the hourly rate stays the same, so no need to renegotiate.

[Kirch]

When I am too lazy and don't want to waste time in order to find some new girls, I go to Rio. Many discussions here about this club (including that I am paid from Rio to make advertising here. Haha). Read my posts, Rio is still the best place to get a very nice, slim, beautiful, clean girl for good money!

(Rio, Tootsie and Scarlette is the same owner).

I visited Tootsie Club a couple of weeks ago when they opened. The club is next door to Rio. I don't like it at all. The design, furniture, etc. Is way too cheesy and I don't feel comfortable there. Yesterday I went to Scarlette, I have been there a couple of times before but only because it is only 1 minute walk from my Hotel ALoft. I don't like the atmosphere either. Especially the tables are too far away from the dance poles. Yesterday it was me and one other guest! Girls were not pretty as well so I left for Rio. It was about 10:00 pm and it was crowded (still the basement area is closed). Every time I come here, the more fat and not so nice girls they have! But always you can find some skinny nice ones as well. Yesterday I saw Luda, Alina, Vlada and Isabella. But as always, weekends are not good. I noticed that during the week there are more pretty girls and on weekends some of the girls prefer to make their money with private dances, thus don't go to hotel. Within the week they go more likely to the hotel as there are not so many guests. Prices are 150 Euro for 1-2 hours, 250 Euro for 3-5 hours and 350 hours for the entire night. Well, sometimes I go there at 8:00 pm and I leave Rio at 09:00 pm with a nice girl for 350 Euro and she leaves next morning.

I still love Rio, maybe because I had the best times there over the last 7 years. But it is not easy anymore to find the new crazy girls coming from out of Kiev for some adventure. Too many business like girls.

[Kirch]

I did some work on Mamba for about 3 weeks last year as I had a lot of time travelling. I contacted maybe 300 girls. Some are fakes, some are real but when writing with them they come up with their real photos and this is disappointing. Some of them are really high class and beautiful but its expensive. Some only look for marriage. You find everything and as a result (after contacting 300 girls) I have 2 new 19 and 21 years old girls who just want to have fun and ask for some sponsoring. Both beautiful and slim body and their English is very good. So, it depends of what you are looking for? Well your name is "fuckedupswede" so I guess you are looking for fun. So I would suggest to be more straight but still a Gentleman. If you act like the nice guy, they will be unbelievable vampires! Sucking out your money and energy. Still CIS girls love more straight, dominant men but like a Gentleman!

I have read a good portion of the thread with great pleasure. I live in Sweden, as my avatar suggest, and I am not a seasoned monger.

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

[Kirch]

You are totally right Photoslider. But I guess I have to add something. Your friend in Kiev is working there and has a flat there. And the friends know this. In this case I agree with you. But if you are just a nice guy in Kiev, not there for work or living in Kiev, it looks different. I have some friends in Kiev and I know they doubt that I am here for work (what I pretend). So they don't introduce me to other friends because they are all afraid that their friends think I am just one of those sex tourists. I had 2 girl friends here and both introduced me only to some friends. Those friends had no bad opinion about foreigners coming to Kiev and have a girl friend here. I got in a big fight with my last girl friend because she refused to go with me to some (underground) clubs and festivals here as she knows there many people. When she was drunk she told me she is so sorry but she is afraid that her friends think that she is with a German guy only because of money and that they think she is kind of a prostitute. Certainly those 2 girls live on left bank, so they don't have much money. I know from other friends working and studying abroad and have rich familys, it is OK to meet foreigners as long as the story is right.

To find a girl for real relationship you need to go outside of Kiev city center! Or at least away from Kreshatik, Buddha Bar, Sky bar, etc. And you need to be nice, yes its true, you can be nice and a Gentleman! They love it because they are tired of the lazy and rude Ukrainian men (that's what they told me). (But as everyone knows, some of them still only fall in love with "assholes" as they can't control it). And you need patience! A lot of patience! If she is really interested in you it won't happen quickly that you end up in bed or kissing. My experience though is that the most adorable women don't speak English. I just experienced again after a friend asked me to visit a charity help. I loved it and do now a lot for this charity. The girls here volunteering for this organisation love to see me working there and donating money. I got in contact with dozens of new girls but not one single girl speaks English. Gosh, I want to learn Russian but its so complicated. Haha.

My expat friend has a nice residence and stays in Kiev most of the time. One of the nights we met for a late dinner, and I was going to order a call girl afterwards. Offered him to partake as well, to which he wearily responded:

And the moral of the story is exactly as Riina pointed out: Treat them Ukrainian ladies nice, and they will not leave you sleeping alone.

[Kirch]

Long-term prostitution with one man: a special case is the many girls in Kyiv, who do not prostitute themselves with many men, but who prostitute themselves with a series of rich men. The girls call these men 'my boyfriend' and insist that they are very much in love. If that were so, why do they live apart? In most cases the reason is that the man is married and thus places the girl in a centrally located flat to a) buy her and be) have a place to use her. It is a bit more difficult to find out about such girls, but it's also possible: clear signs are once again that she doesn't work, that she has a upscale flat in the center, that she goes all the time to expensive restaurants, that she lives alone and that she frequently travels outside of Ukraine (with her 'boyfriend' of course). Such girls have nothing to do all day, they go to the fitness studio, they visit café after café, they meet some friends and wait all week around for the time her sponsor comes to use her at his flat. Such girls will never have time to meet you for two reasons: the first is that in the evening they need to be available for their paymaster before he heads to his family's place, and the second reason is that usually his friends know about her and if she is found to meet another man for a date, she risks losing her job and flat. Only if such a girl senses that she is about to lose her current paymaster or that you are ready to take over as paymaster, she will become active and want to meet you; until then she 'is a busy girl', 'has so much to do', 'has so little free time', and so many other idiotic excuses why she cannot meet you, during the 23 hours of the day she has nothing to do.

Short-term prostitution with many men: another special case is girls, who have a series of boyfriends that change repeatedly and abruptly. These girls, like the ones above, have their own flat, they visit expensive restaurants etc. The main difference is that these girls rent their flats themselves, while the above live in flats owned or rented by their sponsor. To make sure that they have money for their flats they will continuously switch between wealthy boyfriends with the intent to secure money for rent and food. Relationships of 2-3 weeks are not uncommon and also these girls insist that they are in 'love'. These girls are most often the most diseased of the girls you can meet; while the long-term sponsored girls sleep with just one man and the full-time prostitutes use condoms with their clients, these girls sleep with their 'boyfriends' without condoms (they are in love after all!) and ignore the fact that such guys have a dozen 'girlfriends' at any given time. Also these girls might be in 'love' with many men at the same time. And if by the end of the month they did not manage to find their rent, you can find them at the-Lux desperate to sell themselves for the rent.

Mamba: mamba. Ru is where all prostitutes in Ukraine converge, looking for either a sponsor or for some quick hourly sex for money deals. A girl with a profile there is a prostitute; the few exceptions are in the single digits and leave the site quickly. Mamba is difficult to mine for information, but if you have the time it will yield endless information about professional hookers, the reason being that the girls while using fake names enter their true birthdays and use the same photos as on vkontakte. If you manage to find a girl you do like in real life on mamba, write her there under an assumed identity, and you can be sure to receive the prices, conditions and services she offers and also the list of her girlfriends she can bring along.

If you still want to date a girl, who fits all or some of the description above, feel free to do so. But be aware that she will be with you only as long it makes financial sense for her. Furthermore do yourself a favor and send her to the gynecologist before you sleep with her without a condom: vaginal bacteria are as common as iPhones with girls in the-Lux and furthermore none of them takes the anti-baby pill.

Per se these girls are not bad, but they are lazy. The reason these girls prefer to sell themselves is not, because they need the money, the sole reason is that they are too lazy to do any kind of work; work in any form is anathema to them, but at the same time they want a luxurious lifestyle without doing anything for it but pulling their legs apart and looking at the ceiling for twenty minutes.

If you wish to find a girl worthy of your affection and for a long lasting relationship, don't go out to the clubs mentioned at the beginning of the blog. There your chances to find a girl worthy of your time and energy are zero. Work and make friends with your work colleagues. They will take you along to their get-together, where you will meet their friends and their sisters. All of whom do work, all of whom will have little money, and among these you will find a beautiful, smart, sweet, wonderful girl that is neither lazy nor obsessed with money. Remember: any girl that has no job, but lives in her own flat is most likely to be a hooker. The girls you want to meet, date and love are those who study and work since they were seventeen years old.

And if you are really desperate for intimacy, then don't bother to go to the-Lux or Safe, or the like: go to Rio Strip Club next to the opera: there girls are friendlier, more honest, younger, available, cheaper and cleaner.

[Kirch]

If you are still unsure if a girl you met is a prostitute or not, then it is time for some research. Go to vkontakte to check the girls profile out. If you do not have vkontakte then this blog will be of little help to you as you haven't really arrived in Kyiv yet (www.vk.com). Find the girl: if she did not give you her full name, her birthday and first name will suffice. Girls have a habit to have much more racy and revealing photos on vkontakte than on facebook. An added bonus is that vkonakte's privacy measures are sloppy and friendlists are not hidden.

Travel Photos: First thing you do is to check out her photos: a lot of professional underwear and bikini photos are already a bad sign. A lot of travel photos from all kinds of exotic destinations all over the world are even worse. If you work in a normal job, if you are from a normal Ukrainian family you do not have the means to travel the world. You get 2-3 weeks of holiday a year and a holiday in Egypt, in Turkey or some bus tour of Western Europe is the maximum you can pay from your salary. Holidays in expensive and faraway places: e. G. Maldives, Dominican Republic, India, Thailand, Australia, etc. For example are always paid for by clients, or rich boyfriends (more about rich 'boyfriends' below). Repeated trips to the United Arab Emirates are an especially auspicious sign of travel prostitution; namely sex for a holiday. Trips to Israel, Dominican Republic, LOS Angeles, New York, etc. – maybe some ignorant local boys believe the girls' stories that male friends invited them to join them on these short trips, just because these friends are just very friendly; but you should not: if a Ukrainian girl is invited to visit the Bahamas it is only because the inviter can invite himself to all orifices of her body in return.

Type of Photos and Posing: One of the typical things girls from poor backgrounds will post are a ridiculous amount of photos showing them indulging in luxury. These photos are meant to showcase their coolness, and their friends in their little villages might be impressed by them. However when doing research these images are quite helpful as they show so much more than these girls intended. Images of a girl sitting in a luxury car means just that this is the car of the man that ordered her; Images of a girl in a flat with view of Central Park, just means that in this flat she will soon be used by the owner of the flat; Images of a girl putting a spoon of caviar in her mouth just means that she will soon swallow another reproductive liquid next; Images taken inside a Rolls Royce do not mean that it's her car, they just mean that she is dumb and poor and that this drive to her client is the first time she has come close to luxury. Photos on yachts and in private jets just showcase the type of a client a girl usually services and what prices she expects to be paid for having no dignity. The same rule applies for photos taken in airport business lounges and hotel rooms; none of these girls can pay for these amenities and you need to understand, she is just showing us her commute to work and her workplace.

Friendlists: Luckily vkontakte doesn't hide friendlists. One can only hide up to 15 friends. If one has been to Kyiv for some time one knows directly or indirectly a large number of prostitutes. Therefore after you have checked out her photos look at the friendlist: often you can find a 10-20% of the girls in a friendlist to be known prostitutes. One girl, who works and studies, might know at maximum 2-3 girls, who are involved in the trade. But when a girl has over 10 prostitutes in her friendlist then it is safe to assume she knows them from common work experiences. Another telling sign is the amount of much older foreign men a girl has in her friendlist on facebook – if the amount is more than 50% of all male friends, she is managing her client base through facebook.

Check-ins: thanks to smartphones, there is an inflation of girls checking into places: be it restaurants, clubs, bars, airports, etc. And they are some of the most revealing information one can find: girls that regularly check into expensive restaurants do so to announce their presence and current availability to their usual clients. As no Ukrainian girl has the means or the will to pay for diner in such a place herself, they fully expect some sucker to read the check-in and go to the place to pay for diner and extra for sex-services afterwards. In earlier times girls, instead of checking in, used to send sms announcing 'I am in the center. Let's meet at Safe in 20 min' and were actually angry if you dared to not rush there to pay diner for her and the friends she brought along to dine on the sucker's expense too. So check her profile for check-ins: lots of visits to Safe, SkyBar, Byblos, Velour, and the-Lux, especially during the week tell you all you need to know. Also check with whom they visit these places: checking in with a known prostitute is not uncommon. Furthermore check-ins at airports during the week for 2-3 day trips are not friends inviting her over to Cannes to go shopping with her at Burberry, but a client in need of a quality body.

Photos of flats: Rent in Kyiv is expensive. Even if one works full time it often is not enough to rent one's own flat. So check profiles on vkontakte for photos of flats. The dumbest girls take an excessive amount of themselves in their flat; very commonly in front of the mirror, an iPhone in hand, showing off new dresses, shoes, fur coats, etc. That they were tipped with. A luxury flat in the center can mean only one thing: a full-time prostitute or a wealthy, married sponsor, who pays for that flat in exchange for exclusive access to that girl's body.

[Kirch]

I have posted this about 7 years ago. I found it somewhere in the internet. It is still so much truth about it, I still have to laugh reading this.

If you've just arrived in Kyiv, chances are that you will quickly be informed by helpful work colleagues and business partners about the places to dine at and the places to party. They are but a few and they are full of stunning girls. So let's start our checklist by assuming you just went out for the first time and met this nice English-speaking girl, with an amazing body, who was so sweet with you:

Where did you meet her? If it was at the-Lux, SkyBar, Dante Park, Arena, Avalon, Shooters, Byblos, Serebro, Velour, Buddha Bar, Mokko, Richelieu, Ok Bar, Safe (to name just some of the worst places to meet a girl) , there is a strong likelihood that this girls is a hooker. If you met her at the-Lux, don't kid yourself – that's a *house with 80% working girls swarming its three floors. SkyBar is the same, but just on one floor, while Dante Park has a slightly lower hooker level, but still there are 2 chances out of 3 that she was there to work. Arena and Avalon have a lower class of hookers, but an even higher percentage of hookers than the-Lux. Shooters is a special case: students go there to dabble in their first sex-for-money experiences and also girls to ugly to pass the face control at the top clubs. Byblos, Serebro and Velour are the places where rich Ukrainians pick up their sex-snacks and so the chances that she speaks English are low, but she is likely to charge you premium prices for being so daft to have picked her up there. For a long time Buddha Bar used to be the prostitution center of Kyiv, but lately management has been clamping down strongly on the amount of hookers allowed to enter. Mokko, Richelieu, Ok Bar and Safe are favorite hangouts for some of the most expensive ladies one can find in Kyiv; sipping on one coffee for the whole evening and waiting for some rich man to invite them to share dinner with him and later share his bed. Safe and OK Bar are by far the worst offenders in this regard and any girl going there regularly is a girl to avoid. All these places have in common, that none of the girls can afford to actually be there, and if she is there it is so to find a man to pay for her: there and hers truly too.

What day of the week did you meet her? Has it been a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday? Remember that any Ukrainian girl, who studies or works will only in the rarest of circumstances go out during the week. Students at Ukrainian universities have an immense work load and must be at class early in the morning; therefore they do not go out during the week and if they do, they will be with a group of friends and head home early. Girls who work, work long hours, need to be at work early in the morning and receive paltry salaries – hence they sleep on weekday evenings and do not have the money to go out to such expensive places. A girl that can go to clubs and restaurants all days of the week is most likely there to sell herself, especially if she is still there after midnight.

What does she do in life? One of the first questions to ask is what a girl does in life; if she answers 'Student', 'Looking for a job', 'Undecided', 'Model', all alarm bells should start ringing at once! Students (see above) neither have the time to go out nor the money; a girl who doesn't work in Kyiv cannot survive in this city (unless her parents are rich– see point below); and if she claims to be a model then this is code for 'I think I am a model, because I am a tall and thin hooker!' Kyiv is a city with thousands of models, none of which earns enough money to pay for even a flat. True top models do not stay in Kyiv, they quickly move to fashion capitals in the West, where they can make more money. 'Models' in Kyiv are tall, thin girls, who sometimes dabble a bit in modeling, but as there are so many of them, none can actually earn her living and 95% of them also work in other ways with their bodies.

Maybe her parents are rich? Well, they might– and there is an easy way to find out: 'Do you have a car? ' if she confirms ask what car it is. A girl from a truly rich family will have her own car and not just some cheap little Japanese one, but a Lexus or Mercedes jeep or even a Porsche Cayenne. But then a girl from such a family wouldn't be found at a place full of hookers like E. G. Safe. She would be at one of the luxury restaurants foreigners don't even know about, and she wouldn't speak with you. Chances are high that a girl going out to the above mentioned clubs and talking to a foreigner with a car in the 50 k $ range got this car as a gift from one of her wealthy married lovers. But if she doesn't have a car and doesn't work, then she is very likely a prostitute. No middle class family in Ukraine has the means or the inclination to allow their daughters not to work after university, and if a girl doesn't have a car and doesn't work, then her source of income is between her legs, which pays nicely for life in Kyiv, but won't earn her enough for buying a car.

Phrases and keywords to look out for: There are phrases that if uttered are a clear sign that you should move on. The most obvious of them are: 'I like generous man' means 'I look for a sucker to pay for everything! '; 'I am not a girl for the average man! ' means 'My body is only for men from 100 k $ disposable income p. A. And up!' 'I am a popular girl!' means 'I already have a lot of clients, so if you want me – start the bidding! '; 'This is a real Gucci / Prada / etc. Bag / watch / etc. ' means 'See what other men paid for me, top them or I will move on. ' and my favorite 'I am not a prostitute' which actually means 'Your offer is to low!'

Other things to look out for: To much makeup, to low cut dresses, breasts hanging halfway out of the bustier, navel piercings – many hookers dress like hookers; but the most common single identification symbol is: not all girls in Kyiv with an iPhone are hookers, but all hookers in Kyiv have an iPhone! Always the newest model and always nearby to show they have it; naturally they had it presented to them by one of their clients, because none of them ever spends her own money on anything.

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...My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.

My expat friend has a nice residence and stays in Kiev most of the time. One of the nights we met for a late dinner, and I was going to order a call girl afterwards. Offered him to partake as well, to which he wearily responded:

- Thanks, but I am afraid I shall pass.

- How so?

- Well, I just returned from having both Svetlana and Oksana at their location. You know them.

- Yes I do.

- Right. I had them both, and as you might have noticed, Svetlana's ass is not for faint-hearted. She is rather demanding young lady.

- That she is indeed)) Did you change the condoms while switching between them?

- Yes I did. And the night before that full-bodied Ruslana invited her best friend Natasha, who just separated from her husband, and told her how happy she is with me. So went to hammam for a few hours, where I had them both as well, and they finished a bottle of cognac between the two of them, I didn't drink, and they took turns draining my energy. I am sorry, but I will pass tonight.

And the moral of the story is exactly as Riina pointed out: Treat them Ukrainian ladies nice, and they will not leave you sleeping alone.