German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Free Dude]

Interesting. The Dutch have up till now found it hard to set up thriving clubs (resulting I believe to the way that they are taxed, which discriminates against establishments with many girls: I expect other members know the detail). If this club can get started then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws, which will give an edge over the German clubs.

There have been clubs in Emmerich before (Fun Garden, Lekker Ding), but they always struggle. Schuttdorf is near the border as well and Golden Dreams always struggled to get decent line ups, until they left. Just 20 miles down the A3 from Emmerich you have SC Venus and Gallardo (previously Marisol), all of which struggle to get anything going that resembles the bigger clubs (although Venus can be nice for a few hours). Simply put, (I think) that far north there aren't enough people to make clubs with many girls successful. Neither in Germany nor in the Netherlands. If you are travelling from the bigger Ducth cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam), you'll be on the road for a while anyway and the difference between Bruggen and Emmerich won't matter. Believe me, I do this a few times each month and normally I breeze past Emmerich and Hamminkeln towards clubs I want to visit. Or I cross the border at Venlo (smack in between Yin Yang and Golden Time).

[Optimist]

Thanks for the level headed post Optimist, as always.

Found out something today from a WG. Apparently a brand new club will be opening in the Dutch-German border town of Emmerich. Best part is the name, Golden Day. I have no idea if related to GT but I'm sure they are looking to siphon off some of that Dutch business. For now, it will be a 30 euro entry club.

Interesting. The Dutch have up till now found it hard to set up thriving clubs (resulting I believe to the way that they are taxed, which discriminates against establishments with many girls: I expect other members know the detail). If this club can get started then of course it will not be subject to the July 2017 German laws, which will give an edge over the German clubs.

[Tom525]

Thanks to all for their great posts.

This summer I have two weeks of free time and I thought it would be fun to tour Germany and Switzerland just to visit FKK clubs.

Having been to several clubs in Berlin and Stuttgart I enjoyed the experience but am curious about the large clubs.

Any suggestions are welcome and I plan to travel between cities by train.

Thanks again.

[Sirioja]

You make a good point about the girls covering their faces. I always have a question for the girls who send 1 k per month home, who take 3 months a year off work and spend it back home, who buy a beautiful new house with cash, who have small children that stay in their home country with their grandparents, and who say there families don't know what they do for work. Do you really think what you do is a secret from your parents. Do you think your parents believe a waitress, bar tender, hotel maid, etc makes 10 k per month in Germany? I tell them it's not a secret it's denial. The secret is that their parents are o with them working as a prostitute as long as they are providing for their families back home.

Some ladies are super protective of their real identities. Others, after a couple meetings will share a look inside their life with you. I personally take it with a grain of salt because the one thing I've learned via this hobby, some of the greatest illusionists in the world work in Sauna Clubs as prostitutes.

For sure, Romanian families prefer to play blind, enjoying the fast money. Which other job could make so much fast money? Modeling? But not many FKK girls are model look.

[CaneUppHosAss]

You make a good point about the girls covering their faces. I always have a question for the girls who send 1 k per month home, who take 3 months a year off work and spend it back home, who buy a beautiful new house with cash, who have small children that stay in their home country with their grandparents, and who say there families don't know what they do for work. Do you really think what you do is a secret from your parents. Do you think your parents believe a waitress, bar tender, hotel maid, etc makes 10 k per month in Germany? I tell them it's not a secret it's denial. The secret is that their parents are o with them working as a prostitute as long as they are providing for their families back home.

Some ladies are super protective of their real identities. Others, after a couple meetings will share a look inside their life with you. I personally take it with a grain of salt because the one thing I've learned via this hobby, some of the greatest illusionists in the world work in Sauna Clubs as prostitutes.

Hello Sir,

American Psychology Association talks about power of pretending. Several researchers have done work on this topic. Dr Paul Harris wrote a book called work of imagination. He discusses this in the context of children and role play, role play vs pretending but essentially while even a 3 year old may not have any understanding of theory of mind, the child is able to use role play to predict the actions and reactions and thought processes of others. I think this concept can probably be extended to the situation you described which is that the role play that happens between a working girl and her family in Romania and pretending to not know.

[CaneUppHosAss]

While I deffinately agree with you, I do see why girls can get tired of this constant greeting. Even I as a guy after just a few days in a row in FKK's start getting tired of smiling and greeting so many girls around every corner in an FKK. And a few girls have over the years even called me rude for looking through them as ether too. Maybe I am lucky, but in this closed off polygamous box the clubs are, greetings must be some of the hardest parts. Especially with all the sales impulses going on. Women does seem to be better at such multitasking than guys are, but still I bet it can make them loose focus sometimes.

Hello Sir,

Yes, an unending sequence of acknowledge and greets can be tedious and weigh you down but a simple smile should be easy enough-- one hopes.

If we are bumping into each 10 times in 5 minutes, it is not required to say and do much every time but if it happens a couple of times a day, a simple flash of smile will not hurt.

In any case, my thought is that those are things a monger can reasonably expect inside a club but outside the club our mutual privacy must be paramount unless there is some other understanding between the two parties involved.

My 2 cents.

Thank you.

[Takedown]

Thanks for the level headed post Optimist, as always.

Found out something today from a WG. Apparently a brand new club will be opening in the Dutch-German border town of Emmerich. Best part is the name, Golden Day. I have no idea if related to GT but I'm sure they are looking to siphon off some of that Dutch business. For now, it will be a 30 euro entry club.

[Optimist]

Nice points everybody. Yes it is a business relationship, but it is one where there is a direct personal interchange, and it is very easy, if both sides allow it to happen, for a personal relationship to develop. The range and depth will vary enormously but is almost inevitable if one repeats several times with any girl. Because it is business based, the girl, as Bfsie says, gives the man much more of a chance than is likely in her non-business life where peer group and social norms pressures mean she would only meet with men of similar age and nationality and culture. In clubs the girls get money, worship, and meet interesting men (as well as the opposite).

But as Nick says, once human relationships develop, the situation gets much more complicated and as Mr Ho implies, illusions can be mistaken for reality.

As Takedown says, we need to accept that the WG can choose to be seen just as a WG or as a human being. Like in any walk of life. Common decency and common sense.

[Optimist]

Nice points everybody. Yes it is a business relationship, but it is one where there is a direct personal interchange, and it is very easy, if both sides allow it to happen, for a personal relationship to develop. The range and depth will vary enormously but is almost inevitable if one repeats several times with any girl. Because it is business based, the girl, as Takedown says, gives the man much more of a chance than is likely in her non-business life where peer group and social norms pressures mean she would only meet with men of similar age and nationality and culture. In clubs ths girls get money, worship, and meet interesting men (as well as the opposite).

But as Nick says, once human relationships develop, the situation gets much more complicated and as Mr Ho implies, illusions can be mistaken for reality.

As Takedown says, we need to accept that the WG can choose to be seen just as a WG or as a human being. Like in any walk of life. Common decency and common sense.

[Sirioja]

Keep in mind, many girls do not even say Hi or smile back inside the club an hour after you had just fucked her. They walk by and look through you as if you are ether.

If I could change something, I would have more girls smile and say Hi in the club as we keep bumping into each other in such a small space. Not because I feel I am entitled to it inside the club but it is simple manners and good customer service. The good ones do, the lousy service providers don't.

Then no need they return to me. I also judge girls behavior, not only for introducing social time or in bed, but how they behave after I pay, most are smiling, some with sweet caresses after room. Behavior is more interesting for me than sexual performances.

[Pistons]

If I could change something, I would have more girls smile and say Hi in the club as we keep bumping into each other in such a small space. Not because I feel I am entitled to it inside the club but it is simple manners and good customer service. The good ones do, the lousy service providers don't.

While I deffinately agree with you, I do see why girls can get tired of this constant greeting. Even I as a guy after just a few days in a row in FKK's start getting tired of smiling and greeting so many girls around every corner in an FKK. And a few girls have over the years even called me rude for looking through them as ether too. Maybe I am lucky, but in this closed off polygamous box the clubs are, greetings must be some of the hardest parts. Especially with all the sales impulses going on. Women does seem to be better at such multitasking than guys are, but still I bet it can make them loose focus sometimes.

[Pistons]

FKK is merely a type of brothel, nothing more, nothing less. As good as FKK is, it merely place where you get your lust taken care of and brothel is not a place to communicate deeply with prostitutes, it is bit like going to restaurants or hospital or where-ever and expect waitress or nurse to take care of you more further than they are occupationally expected to do.

It is surprising that some mongers seek to communicate or practice social skill in FKK, but it is asking for wrong thing in wrong place or asking too much going beyond what prostitutes are expected to do, then I realize how crazy it has become for human society where some seek for such relation in brothel. Prostitutes has their own private lives too that they want to protect and that is why they are tuting, so I think it is polite to stay out of private lives of prostitutes.

I think a problem here is that most girls who make money in these FKK's are on a different mindset than most men are. And they don't really think of it as more than an ATM. There is therefore a problem with the feng shui at the FKK's. And this can cause most of the issues you have pointed at in your posts. Too bad for them really, since I deffinately believe that if the girls in general had been smarter about this, then there would be far more repeating customers. Both for the clubs and for the girls.

[Pistons]

I find some of this this talk about free thinking and paradigm shifts a bit ironic. For sure the common paradigm is that hookers are just hookers who are after your money and nothing more. While this is the case more often than not, a real free thinker would realize that this is not always the case. Real free thinkers would realize that working girls come in all varieties and that some are able to manage friendships and relationships throughout the entire clientele to personal relationship spectrum. If this were not the case then there would not be cases where working girls have quit the job to be with a former client. If WGs in clubs were just WGs, then these messages from WGs that I have never sessioned with must be a figment of my imagination.

A true free thinker would realize that such things are fluid. A true free thinker would realize that his own limitations often creates his reality because he cannot see over the horizon. A true free thinker would give the WG a chance to be a WG as well as a real human being.

P.S. I hate that these debates have made me write such liberal, love-the-world explanations that should really just be common sense and common decency.

The definition of a working girl or a hooker is just that. A definition. Framed negatively, for a certain purpose. We can all instead create our own word for it instead if we want, but by even thinking in terms of hookers and working girls, one gives the power over to the persons who pursues the same negative framing as the coiner of the terms. The historical biological context to it would be that taking resources in trade for sex is the natural way. So there shouldn't be the need for any framing of any term for it at all. Neither positively nor negatively. It should speak for itself.

If we want to get nerdy on framing here. Look up 'action framing' in this article:

http://comphacker.org/comp/engl338/f...-relations.pdf

Common sense is also fluid. And this common sense fluidity is at the core of what a paradigm change really is.

[Pistons]

This hobby is fun, but it needs to be also kept in a sandbox and seen in context of being quite an artificial set up: where else do have dozens of half or fully naked beautiful women constantly propositioning you? It reverses everything.

Well, only in today's societal context is this true. Change certain basic criteria, and you can have a paradigm change. It won't be exactly like in an FKK, but the world outside of the sandbox can move towards it. Future technology can be the cause of such paradigm changes. Politics another. And most likely we have slowly started changing the paradigm already. But it seems to take time. It changes faster in some countries than others (rate of religious population). And there can be different stages on the paradigm change that makes one whole paradigm change seem like several paradigm changes. While in reality one leads naturally to the other. Capitalism can even correlate to one such thing.

[Chongmal]

Muzein Wallah! I feel it in my liver, Sayyid Chongmal. She went out of her way to insult you. It is this kind of attitude that keeps me away from Europe. Although in Brazil there are no FKKs, it is quite normal to meet a girl in a sex club and carry on dating her outside. None of this phony superiority from the chicks.

In general I think sex is a great way to start a relationship. Any red flags, any hint of selfishness, any major incompatibility, you will see it right there -- before committing too much. (Although this did not work for you Chongmal: you put in a lot of cash before the mask came off!)

I wasn't trying to start a relationship, I was pay g a lady for sex. I got exactly what I wanted from her, sex acts purchased in 30 minute blocks. That day on the street I was simply being courteous to someone I recognized. I was surprised by her reaction. I'm not a 25 year old Adonis, or even a 55 year old Adonis. I'm not a super Mr Lover Lover like some men here claim to be. I'm a short, slightly overweight, balding male in my 50's. The women's only attraction to me is my wallet, cleanliness and personality. I know my personality gets distorted by the thickness of my wallet. I do realize these women are only mine when I'm paying for their company or figuratively when expressing my fondness for her, as in "she is my favorite lady at the moment" and if my favorite is reading this she knows who she is.

As for the lady I saw on the street, we didn't see much of each other after that day. I still think about her occasionally but don't think I would know her if I saw her in the club today. She has been replace several time and I'm OK with that.