German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Takedown]

I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her. I can add Kity, but Katea for sure would be happy to still get now my business. Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.

What's your secret? Really. Is it the poetry? Secret moves in bed? Or one must be blessed with a 0.5 m cock to have your skills with prostitutes?

[Pistons]

By definition, empathy means to feel what others feel. Some sociopaths just learn to mimic emotions. They understand what behaviors are rewardable and act accordingly. For instance, my neighbor could be a highly functioning sociopath. If my neighbor accidentally kills my dog with his car, he can apologize and extend his condolences, because he knows that is what is socially acceptable, but deep down he may not give a shit. Likewise a murderer may pretend to feel remorse simply to obtain a lighter sentence.

So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. In other words, the WG may view the client through a different lens. In the case of fly-in clients who spend all their free time in FKK clubs or locals who spend every weekend in FKK clubs, she can rationalize "This monger is a lonely man who has nobody in his life. He would fall in love with any woman who reciprocates his affection. If I don't take, advantage of him, someone else will. " She feels no remorse when asking for a sum that would put such a monger into debt, because in her mind, "he deserves it". She simply reasons "he desperately wants to fall in love and to be loved, so I am simply giving him what he asked for"..

That is your best post of the year. And the best regarding empathy I suppose. Needs a repost, so here is the bump.

[CaneUppHosAss]

How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!

You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?

Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel.

Hello Herr G,

You are right to observe that the illusion is in the monger's head, his property. My analogy would be that this illusion is a sculpture brought out of a rock. The sculpture was already in the rock but it takes the sculptor to chisel out the shape from the rock. Without a sculptor, the rock just remains a rock. That is the role of a good WG. Empathy, sympathy and other -pathy's are her tools to bring this illusion to fruition. A monger falling in love with a WG is, to me, like a client commissioning a sculptor to create a beautiful stone figure for him, finds it so life like and falls in love. In the end, it is still just a sculpture, an illusion, not a real woman.

[Pistons]

Has there been life on earth before someone talked about "game theory"? Smiley.

You don't need to talk about game theory for it to have existed since the beginning of life itself. You don't need to talk about a round earth for the earth to have been round since life started developing on the planet earth.

I also think everyone here understands the difference between sympathy and empathy. And we all hold empathy ethically in higher regard. As I have mentioned before, my take on a girl at an FKK is that she is something of a quasi psychologist we men pays to be with. And a good psychologist manages to display empathy. A not so good one may show more traces of sympathy. It is easier to turn this mental idea around towards the women due to the men coming in as customers, and paying them for their time.

This story has been posted here before by someone:

https://nypost.com/2017/11/11/sex-wo...n-really-want/

[Pistons]

Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them. Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.

I totally agree with what both you and Takedown said regarding this. And as Takedown says, you can frame it as sympathy, empathy or whatever you want. But I still think as a global phenomenon in all sorts of different contexts, empahty as a trait is a better mindset than the other things you can frame it as. Be it a techniques of extracting money or whatever. My example of empathy here was mainly to link the discussion to the sex topic. I could just as much have turned it around and said that empathy from guys towards girls would be to hand them money after having sex for just 3 minutes if her pussy hurts. Then I suppose my comment would seem less selfish to the general critical sensationalist I suppose.

[McAdonis]

By definition, empathy means to feel what others feel. Some sociopaths just learn to mimic emotions. They understand what behaviors are rewardable and act accordingly. For instance, my neighbor could be a highly functioning sociopath. If my neighbor accidentally kills my dog with his car, he can apologize and extend his condolences, because he knows that is what is socially acceptable, but deep down he may not give a shit. Likewise a murderer may pretend to feel remorse simply to obtain a lighter sentence.

So if a WG pretends to be in love with her client, so that she can over the course of months put him into heavy financial debt--is she a sociopath? Not necessarily. Such WGs have the capacity to feel and share the pain of people in their personal lives, but with their lovesick clients, this conscience may not be present. In other words, the WG may view the client through a different lens. In the case of fly-in clients who spend all their free time in FKK clubs or locals who spend every weekend in FKK clubs, she can rationalize "This monger is a lonely man who has nobody in his life. He would fall in love with any woman who reciprocates his affection. If I don't take, advantage of him, someone else will. " She feels no remorse when asking for a sum that would put such a monger into debt, because in her mind, "he deserves it". She simply reasons "he desperately wants to fall in love and to be loved, so I am simply giving him what he asked for".

Rationalization is incredibly powerful. This is true for cybercriminals, unscrupulous WGs or any other type of scam artist from a poor country. There are many ways that they can absolve themselves from guilt or justify their wrongdoings. "he is rich, he won't miss it". "he is from a rich country, he will have other opportunities to recover financially. " or "His parents will die soon and he will bounce back financially after he gets his inheritance" or "Insurance will cover their financial losses". "Everyone else I know is doing it". Many other ways to dehumanize their marks or victims.

[Takedown]

How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!

You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?

Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel. And astonishingly not about the empathy of the mongering men that visit the brothel, but about the empathy of women who work there!

Optimist, if you had that "genuine" empathy yourself, that you admire in those women, could you convince these women in a brothel to fuck with you without them asking you for money? Because they realised you are the best illusion maker and you know how to creep in the heads of women?

Which leads to the question: do many of us constantly need to pay for women because we breed an overboarding illusionary trait, but suffer from a terrible lack of empathy? Smiley!

I think defining empathy and distinguishing it from sympathy is in order:

Empathy. Noun. The ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

One can understand and even share that feeling without having benevolent intent. As stated, selfish intent is the goal of many girls. Empathy is used as a tool because with these feelings, they can better manipulate their clients.

On the other hand:

Sympathy. Noun. Feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.

The feeling of pity perhaps negates the ability to manipulate; however, we're talking about empathy not sympathy.

[Takedown]

Sharky? You pay 200 e for a 3-some sub 1 hour session. I pay 15 e extra cause my phone died and I was out of battery. Still I call this all laissez-faire thinking and doing, and I don't judge like stereotypically seems to keep doing. Making silly defining words like 'nutjob', and thinking your own mind is special and so much more educated and well informed. Even claiming contradictions where it might just be you not getting the entire picture.

I confess that I choose to live in the fantasy inside the clubs but make an effort to keep my mind rooted in objectivity in the real world. Some great benefits can be taken away from the clubs but keeping sensibilities in the world we live in 90% of the time has served me pretty well but I guess my experience is just mine and should not be expected from others. That is fair.

Sorry I lost 10 minutes times 2 since I finished at the 45 minute mark. I guess I should have made the girls stay in the room for the full 15 minutes to make sure they earned the money instead of the casual 5 minute cigarette and chat.

Is Palace entry only 65 euro or is it 75 euro? My math leads me to believe that missing early special specials puts one 25 euro in hole. Oase's early entry saves one 20 euro and Shark's Wednesday and Sunday specials saves one 15 euro.

Terrible session at Oase and not doing a session at Palace after a 75 euro entry, that is quite an unfortunate series of unforced errors. 125 euro unfortunate, perhaps 130 considering fuel.

Maybe you might want to reread that post I made, cause your makes no sense at all. And stop assuming. It just gets silly. P.S.: I didn't mention KK myself. (Not going to explain my post further cause it was a rather funny incident).

KK was also under the impression that you were attacking him. Perhaps we are both illiterate?

My question is what did KK ever do to anyone to deserve this bad mouthing? That random Sharks guy is a terrible judge of character. But posters looking to make sure he gets his message across could benefit from the use of commas and semi colons.

I have had 8 or 9 rooms at GT. From 5 visits I believe. You can find some of my earliest reports if you feel like searching.

Bfsie can think what he wants, but my take on it, although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.

Sorry perhaps my memory failed me and you have been to GT many times. My sincerest apologies. Again, please continue the anti GT crusade and boost Oceans as much as possible. It is entirely within the rights of all posters to have their opinions. Again, I am very sorry for this mistake.

As for the other points, I kinda see your point regarding the power of paradigm shifts. Some call it reframing. In this case I call it reinventing scenarios. It seems to be a very effective survival mechanism.

I have never once in my mongering life said anything bad about another monger to a WG unless she brings it up first. If she says something about another monger, then I might just agree with her or laugh along with her. If it protects someone's ego to make up in their own mind that WGs refuse to go with them because of other monger's words, then I suppose that survival mechanism works. I just think that self examination would be better in the long run as it leads to self improvement.

Is it all that strange to lose interest in a girl when you see her being intimate with another dude, tongue down each others throats, 3 meters away? The illusion was lost. Seems normal to me but perhaps I am the strange one here. If sharing is the game, I guess seeing CIM on a girl should not make one feel any apprehension with kissing her right after.

FKKs are quite interesting places but I think social graces generally still apply. I think it is rude and insulting to other clients to interject when he tells you that he is about to session with a WG. When a fellow monger tells you that he is about to session with a girl, I think it would be appropriate to let him continue instead of interjecting in the approach. At the very least it is disrespectful. At worst it compromises his bargaining power with the girl. That's a social grace that I think most people would find to be common sense.

Perhaps you are right and I am cruel and I should let the french monger continue his fantasy. It would help if the boasting and proclamations of grandeur was toned down a bit.

Lastly, I have to ask Pistons and Polyamorist. In what nutjob cult was the FKK sauna club declared to be about kumbaya sharing of pussy? I was under the impression that FKK was simply the hijacking of the German term for free body culture implanted on a door in order to generate revenue for brothel owners, that the FKK sauna club designation served to informed the customers the infrastructure to expect and how the girls would make their earnings. I wonder if the Paradise group has a manifesto with a mission statement promoting polygamous love paradigm shifts.

[Nick The G]

But you won't get anything through in life without some game theory.

Has there been life on earth before someone talked about "game theory"? Smiley.

[Nick The G]

Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them.

How come they can make it better than you? These are your illusions, your property, not theirs!

You desperately look for a prostitute to show you how to become victimized by your own illusions?

Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.

Nice try, talking about "genuine" empathy, in a brothel. And astonishingly not about the empathy of the mongering men that visit the brothel, but about the empathy of women who work there!

Optimist, if you had that "genuine" empathy yourself, that you admire in those women, could you convince these women in a brothel to fuck with you without them asking you for money? Because they realised you are the best illusion maker and you can "display genuine feeling" and you know "how to creep inside the heads of women"?

Which leads to the question: do many of us constantly need to pay for women because we breed an overboarding illusionary trait, but suffer from a terrible lack of empathy? Smiley!

A link to an article on empathy vs. sympathy in "Psychology Today"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201505/empathy-vs-sympathy

for those who want to learn something about different levels of empathy, here is another link to a more scientific oriented paper:
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED371247.pdf

[Sirioja]

although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.

I agree, facts are to who girls choose to go, I remember a really funny Saturday evening at GT when so many guys were waiting for small German Lucifer and because she didn't forget what she discovered in her body nearly 1 year ago at Palace, she asked to the only guy who was not interested to repeat with her. I can add Kity, but Katea for sure would be happy to still get now my business. Guys talk and girls choose who they prefer to go with.

[Optimist]

To his point, it probably does take empathy but it is used selfishly, empathy nonetheless. That type of girl can have empathy but uses that understanding to extract more money. Empathetic but neither sympathetic or benevolent.

Well said. These girls can be the best illusion makers, and so easily get clients devoted to them. Because they have genuine empathy they can get inside the client's head and also display genuine feeling. Empathy is a great tool for a working girl.

[Pistons]

Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.

To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.

Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.

P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.

I have had 8 or 9 rooms at GT. From 5 visits I believe. You can find some of my earliest reports if you feel like searching.

Bfsie can think what he wants, but my take on it, although I hope you can take it as something to improve on instead of as an insult, is to be less possessive over the girls you like in an FKK. Be it either Carla (Oase) telling her other customers are idiots and then she avoids him right after, Lucy (aca / gt etc) getting turned off by her sitting with a fat German or discussing who she likes the most with other ISG'ers in pm's or on chat clients, Sophie (sharks) pushing away other clients just saying Hi, or Katea (Samya) where it is about ruining other mongers fantasies. It is not good for the girls if they want to make money from different customers instead of you, unless you want to pay quadruple, or for the general atmosphere here on ISG, or in FKK's. And it relates to all this 'sharing' we have discussed here. It has been going on for too long, and it related to not being able to shift into a new paradigm when entering the club environments. Possessiveness shouldn't have any presence in an FKK. And it can be dangerous. This is where the question of an enclosed mind comes in, and how and what we define an FKK to be.

[Pistons]

Thank you for the shoutout from Bfsie.

To KK's defense. There's a difference between people with social quirks being a little eccentric and nutjub trolls. One would have to be a complete societal outsider with a lack of awareness of social graces to consider Kosher Kowboy a troll. He is amicable in his writings and is one of the more pleasant posters.

Also there is a difference between thinking outside the box and being a contrarian.

P.S. I recall that you had a room at GT so I retract my statement that you had no experience there. My apologies. Please continue your anti Golden Time and pro Oceans crusade at your pleasure.

Maybe you might want to reread that post I made, cause your makes no sense at all. And stop assuming. It just gets silly. P.S.: I didn't mention KK myself. (Not going to explain my post further cause it was a rather funny incident).

[Pistons]

"Every political change caused by a nutjob". Difference between nutjob and well informed people who present practical ideas. The worst are contrarians who's main priority is not to present enlightenment and objectivity but rather to appear wise by constantly presenting contradicting ideas no matter how ridiculous and impractical. As an example of I'll-prove-you-wrong contrarian personality type, I'll refer to picking Sharky girls at Oase in face of strong recommendation to avoid and proceeding and failing to make and entry deadline despite direct recommendation not to do so. Ad hominem yes, but supports the point nonetheless.

Sharky? You pay 200 e for a 3-some sub 1 hour session. I pay 15 e extra cause my phone died and I was out of battery. Still I call this all laissez-faire thinking and doing, and I don't judge like stereotypically seems to keep doing. Making silly defining words like 'nutjob', and thinking your own mind is special and so much more educated and well informed. Even claiming contradictions where it might just be you not getting the entire picture.

Nick the G: LOL at the first one. But you won't get anything through in life without some game theory. The robotic definition on what empathy really is. You go on to basically describe this empathy as robotic as well in your second response. I suppose it is all a matter of how to frame it. Smiley.