Kyiv

[Stevie69]

Yes. But why let it get to that point? Any advice that ends with "run screaming" is probably not sound advice. Let us go back several steps. First, If the photos are taken form a professional "nude models" site, are otherwise clearly professional quality, are too good to be true, or are otherwise clearly fake, then do not take the bait. Second, tell the girl to send you her photos on Whatsapp, viber, email or skype. Third, tell her once, twice, and three times, that if she is not the girl in the photos, you will send her back. Third, wait for her outside the apartment, sitting casually on a nearby bench. Presumably, she does not know how YOU look, and even if you have your photo on viber, surely you know how to blend in. If the girl who shows up is not the one in the photos, just text her to tell her "thank you but you are not the girl in the photo" (if you feel polite, as she wasted your time too! And immediately block her number. Finally, just move on with the next girl on your list.

How often does it happen? Very few semi-pros would openly advertise themselves on escort sites. On other sites that can pass as "dating" sites", the girls can pretend to be in for "dating" and only reveal themselves after you have made contact. The usual message is "I meet only for money". The the negotiation starts. Personally, I have had many fakes, even after insisting repeatedly that they will be turned away if they are not the real girl. Sometimes I have had a girl show up who was not the one in the photo, but close enough, or good enough. In many case, I have also had the real girl from the photo show up, exactly as promised.

About models, yes, real models look a little weird.

If meeting girls from mamba or untrusted agencies, there is a possibility (according to PhotoSlider) or likelihood (according to me) or certainty (according to DramaFree11) that the girl will be so far from what was promised that you feel justified in sending her away without taxi fare. However, she may be accompanied by a thug in the car, who gets out and demands taxi fare on her behalf. If a police station nearby, just run towards it screaming. (If the police ask why you were screaming in the street, say you arranged for a private Russian lesson in your apartment with a princess but a pig showed up instead. You can't tell the truth since prostitution is illegal in Ukraine.).

So that's a good reason to be near a police station..

[Kozerog]

... Google maps shows something that looks like a police booth close to the entrance of the building. Does this sound like a bad idea to you when it comes to having girls come over to the apartment? Or not?

If meeting girls from mamba or untrusted agencies, there is a possibility (according to PhotoSlider) or likelihood (according to me) or certainty (according to DramaFree11) that the girl will be so far from what was promised that you feel justified in sending her away without taxi fare. However, she may be accompanied by a thug in the car, who gets out and demands taxi fare on her behalf. If a police station nearby, just run towards it screaming. (If the police ask why you were screaming in the street, say you arranged for a private Russian lesson in your apartment with a princess but a pig showed up instead. You can't tell the truth since prostitution is illegal in Ukraine.).

So that's a good reason to be near a police station. My regular apartment is located 100 m from a police station and I am happy with that near proximity, precisely because of safety issues. Police bribery has been mostly eliminated in recent years for tourists (they may still target brothels, escort agencies and independent escorts).

Regarding models, did you guys know that true fashion models are mostly somewhat unattractive, if considered as women? Fashion models are chosen by gay men, whose ideal of human beauty is a 12 year old boy: narrow hips, flat chest, male face, etc. True fashion models typically resemble David Bowie more than a normal woman. My ideal of human beauty would be Playboy centerfolds from the 1960's, before political correctness set in. Those centerfolds would never make it as fashion models because they are too fleshy.

[Hecker]

I also agree with Dramafree. Now Kiev has become more difficult in comparison to what it was 2 years ago. Basically semipros have vanished from mamba,8's and above are reduced. All happened due to free visa to EU after June 2017.

Now to succeed with 8's and above you need serious cash flow at least 500 euro per day, Russian speaking skills, persistence and lots of experience with day game, night game. There are only two clubs which are good and the competition for the good looking girls is fierce.

But if one is compromised with 6's,7's there is no problem.

[BigBear7777]

Hello other Forum members,

I am new here.

Visiting next weekend Kiev.

What are at the Moment the places to Be in Kiev?

Top 5 Hotspots for Bar and discos.

What are good places to be at Friday / Saturday / Sunday: afternoon / Night.

Any other recommendations for visiting Kiev.

Greeting from Amsterdam.

[DramaFree11]

Because Dramafree is completely right- The top Levels girls are not available for sex starved tourist.

The culture of Ukraine is damaged one, customer satisfaction doesn't exist.

Language barrier is incredibly difficult, nightlife is very poor.

Mamba is hit and miss.

Tinder is full of scams.

You could py $300 for a takeout fro strip club, approximately #300 for 2 or 3 hours.

Myself and Dramafree have both been, and this is the reality, much better alternative.

People will continually say its amazing and they are banging models, but disregard this info as they don't provide t links to the girls or the places.

They can be find. Its a lie.

You'll find more accurate information in the North Korea thread, Ukraine ID Dead.

Thank you, appreciate it. Newbies need to pay attention, this information is coming from multiple sources, not just me. I will leave it at that.

[DramaFree11]

If a business pays above market rates to an employee, because that employee is worth more to them than market rate (such as because they don't have time to find and train a replacement, or employee's skills are specialized and so would not be as highly valued by market as by current employer, etc) does that mean employee is a financial submissive because he / she accepts above market pay? Too bad I didn't get abusively financially dominated like that back when I was working. We used the term golden handcuffs back then.

Similarly, lots of good reasons for overpaying a working girl. Maybe I'm not attractive enough to have experienced "you don't pay for sex, you pay them to go away afterwards" but I definitely understood the concepts of paying for a option on someone's time, paying to block potential competitors, paying extra so as to be first in line, etc. Those are more or less the reasons I pay my jewel list price of 4000 uah for 4 hours, with no regular customer discount, and additionally gave $1500 bonus at our last session of last summer. I want to make myself a valuable customer, so that she arranges her schedule so accommodate mine and otherwise tries to retain my business..

Glad you are back. Appreciate your feedback. One point of clarification. Girls from Kiev are not just going to Russia. They are moving all over the world. This is a major issue, first stop is Kiev the next is another country, Sorry Guys.

[Kozerog]

Admin2 posted a report today on the USASG that I feel is relevant to the recent discussion.

I travel all over the world and guys who pay more than market rate always seem to justify it the same way. It's my money I'll do what I want and they always subtly imply that it's too bad you can't keep up. All markets have expected norms, all of them, I don't care if it's for sweet crude oil or sweet tasty pussy, all markets have market rates. If you're paying more than market rate then you're being played. When I talk to guys who do it they always seem to be the simps that are trying to purchase affection more than sex. Not saying you are but just like you say "your choice if you want to go that route" I think it's yours to go your way. Why in the hell would you ever pay two hundred bucks for a pair of shoes you can buy for 80. I even know guys who insist on paying the chicks more than they charge.

As to the guys complaining, what he pays doesn't change what you pay, the chicks know the guys that do this are really buying financial domination and it won't effect your price so stop complaining about it.

Mis dos centavos.

If a business pays above market rates to an employee, because that employee is worth more to them than market rate (such as because they don't have time to find and train a replacement, or employee's skills are specialized and so would not be as highly valued by market as by current employer, etc) does that mean employee is a financial submissive because he / she accepts above market pay? Too bad I didn't get abusively financially dominated like that back when I was working. We used the term golden handcuffs back then.

Similarly, lots of good reasons for overpaying a working girl. Maybe I'm not attractive enough to have experienced "you don't pay for sex, you pay them to go away afterwards" but I definitely understood the concepts of paying for a option on someone's time, paying to block potential competitors, paying extra so as to be first in line, etc. Those are more or less the reasons I pay my jewel list price of 4000 uah for 4 hours, with no regular customer discount, and additionally gave $1500 bonus at our last session of last summer. I want to make myself a valuable customer, so that she arranges her schedule so accommodate mine and otherwise tries to retain my business.

Same reason I've arranged to pay my regular landlady her going airbnb rate of $26/ day, in cash and without asking for long term discount for 3 month stay. That relationship is also long term and I want to be seen as a valued client, rather than a penny pinching haggler who'd she rather not see again.

Shoe argument above is bad analogy because shoes are commodity products rather than one-of-a-kind services. Better analogy would be paying extra to get priority SERVICE from a custom shoemaker, for someone in a rush and who can afford the extra cost and who only wants shoes from that particular shoemaker for whatever reason.

I'm just catching up on the forum, since I've been away for a while. Where AntonySun1996 might be going wrong is trying to buy feelings, which are not really for sale, especially not love. What you can buy is behavior. For example, I expect my jewel to treat me with respect and to be compliant in bed: behaviors in both cases. I also expect her to feel physical pleasure from the sex. That is a type of feeling, and thus not for sale, but rather I have to earn it. (Incidentally, I can tell she is feeling pleasure, or at least arousal, because of her smell, which I don't notice while we are in progress. After she leaves for the shower, I open the doors to the balcony and step out to look around. When I return to the room, Wow!, young woman in heat smell is overpowering. Noises can be faked, but not smell, I don't think.).

My jewel and I do have an emotional connection, simply because of the time we've spent together, but whether it's love or hate she feels I don't much care. Probably neither. Boredom possible, maybe mixed with a little fear. Maybe she finds me slightly repulsive sexually. Maybe secretly despises me for being so desperate that I have to pay women for sex. It doesn't matter what's in her head. What matters is that her external behavior is respectful and she feels physical pleasure. I notice she closes her eyes during sex, so maybe she is thinking of another man. Fine with me.

If Antony has a similar attitude to that girl of his, fine, regardless of how much he pays (note that $60000/ year is small compared to what Jeff Bezos paid his ex-wife, similarly for other divorced men). But if he's paying to make the girl love him, he's in the wrong track. Marriage to that girl would be a big mistake, IMO.

Also, I discussed this before I regards to Antony, back when I ranted about him paying big lump sums in advance (it later was revealed that he promised in advance but paid at the end). Big spenders do NOT ruin the market. More big spenders means more girls chasing those big spenders. Gossiping by girls about big spenders is good. DramaFree11 asserts that all the better girls in Kyiv have fled to Moscow. If so, then more guys like AntonySun1996 in will bring then back. More demand (by big spender mongers) creates more supply (of working girls). Most of that supply will NOT find a rich sugar daddy, since men as rich as AntonySun1996 are uncommon. Disappointed girls will then either abandon dreams of easy money entirely (unlikely) or accept realistic rates, which still provide reasonably easy money by Kyiv standards.

[MagicSheep74]

Why are you always hard on pushing tourists away from Kiev?

Because Dramafree is completely right- The top Levels girls are not available for sex starved tourist.

The culture of Ukraine is damaged one, customer satisfaction doesn't exist.

Language barrier is incredibly difficult, nightlife is very poor.

Mamba is hit and miss.

Tinder is full of scams.

You could py $300 for a takeout fro strip club, approximately #300 for 2 or 3 hours.

Myself and Dramafree have both been, and this is the reality, much better alternative.

People will continually say its amazing and they are banging models, but disregard this info as they don't provide t links to the girls or the places.

They can be find. Its a lie.

You'll find more accurate information in the North Korea thread, Ukraine ID Dead.

[DramaFree11]

Why are you always hard on pushing tourists away from Kiev?

1. Too Many Scams and everyone lies. (Lying is a sport in Kiev, both male and females take part in this.

A. I got tired of watching friends getting screwed over.

2. Zero Night Life.

3. Way too many low end Sex Tourists pretending to be Italian Dudes.

4. Top Tier and Educated leaving the country.

A. Never talked about by the so called experts on this site, amazing. Major problem.

5. Strip Clubs and Top end Agencies major rip off to bang 6's or even lower, for $150 an hour or more, no way.

6. Why would anyone fly around the world to bang 5/6 for more money, then they would pay in there native country, makes zero sense.

Good Things.

1. City is Cheap.

2. Most People very nice, the further you get away from the center even better.

3. Food is above average.

4. Safe.

5. Opera / Theater is amazing.

6. Many things to do during the day, city empties a night.

[Gargano19]

Avoid Kiev altogether.

Why are you always hard on pushing tourists away from Kiev?

[Riina]

Whatever happened to Barba? He was always generous sharing his Kiev contacts.

[DramaFree11]

[Deleted by Admin]

[DramaFree11]

Did you meet them via mamba? Stripclubs? Please help, have a trip lined up and only 48 hours to play!!

Avoid Kiev altogether.

[Boofer]

Did you meet them via mamba? Stripclubs? Please help, have a trip lined up and only 48 hours to play!!

Completely delusional, not sure why he makes these statements, I guess to try and make himself look good. He is the last person to listen to in Kiev. Anthony started off bad, but now is giving real good advice about Kiev, much better source.

48 hours since flying in, I had 5 girls. All 5 tried hard to please. 3 had great bodies, 2 were model quality. Eye candy on the streets is everywhere, even underground on subway trains.

I guess I am banging Super Models and Actresses, no I deal in the real world, not some fantasy world I have created, real sad.

[Sofiy]

IMHO it's not good choosing a country from false or at least potential untrue escort website.

I meet romanian girls only in FKK and they can be super.

I meet also Bulgarian girls, really great, but when I was in Sofia it was a total delusion.

Agreed. I've been to Germany and Spain and banged a few hot Romania and Bulgarian girls at FKK's and brothels for around 70-80 euro.

I went to Romania and Bulgaria and it was hard to find and not a great place for mongering.

If you want Romania and Bulgarian girls, go to Athens. You can go to the 20 euro street and find them easily there. I even found the deal of my life at one of the apartments where it was 20 euros for one really cute Romanian girl, or 20 euros for her slightly less hot friend. When I asked them difference, the hot one said, with me, it's covered BJ and normal sex. With her, you can do anything you want.

I chose the less hot one got an uncovered BJ, standard sex then did anal, all for 20 euros. This is Romanian girls in Athens. Never happened in Romania. The only problem with Athens is it's quickly Tijuana style. You're in there 15 minute max. No showers. Nothing. In and out.

Kiev, and Ukraine in general I like because you get 1 hour, there are both massage HJ places and sex, and prices start at 450 uah ($17) for HJ massages and sex is usually 1,000 uah ($37) on average for 1 hour.