General Reports

[Dena0]

"...
This excludes United Airlines, where Economy Class Passengers have the same status as garbage.
~BKKguru

Since garbage has preassigned location bins in their aircraft, it is entirely reasonable to infer that United treats Economy Class passengers worse than garbage.

[Dena0]

This is hilarious! Having flown on Qatar and Etihad, this has been my experience too. 100% true.

The Arabs do not discriminate. They will do (what you described) regardless of who is sitting in that Aisle seat: white, black, oriental, eskimo.
This how they behave. It is cultural.

However, in Business Class, there is no reason to put up with this.
I would have called the Cabin Staff and asked them to relocate me or the guy sitting in the window seat.

~BKKguru

If it is a super rich Arab that is affected, the less-than-super rich Arab will be as meek as a mouse. Now, that is cultural!

[BKKguru]

I have found that some arabs have quite poor manners. Have you flown an arabic airline and sat on the aisle? I have had many bad experiences. Often, they stand up most of the flight right next to you with their butt in your face talking with their buddies seated across the aisle from you. That has happened to me multiple times. One time in business class on Qatar airways, I had the aisle and some Arabic guy stood next to me the entire flight talking to another Arabic guy seated next to me at the window (talking over me the entire time). I nicely asked the guy next to the window to change seats with me so he and his friend could talk, and he refused saying he liked the window seat.

This is hilarious! Having flown on Qatar and Etihad, this has been my experience too. 100% true.

The Arabs do not discriminate. They will do (what you described) regardless of who is sitting in that Aisle seat: white, black, oriental, eskimo.

This how they behave. It is cultural.

However, in Business Class, there is no reason to put up with this.
I would have called the Cabin Staff and asked them to relocate me or the guy sitting in the window seat.

BKKguru

[BKKguru]

But I wonder what the profit margin would be if an Airline began flying a certain number of intercontinental flights charging more money for their tickets obviously, but designing the plane throughout with decent size seats and reasonable space between seats. Would the consumers support such an offering or is the public hooked on so called minimal pricing. I don't know, but it might be an interesting experiment for one Airline to try. Who knows? It might be profitable and then it could catch on.

Natty,

You got your wish. The new offering is here and it is catching on fast.

It is called "Premium Economy". More leg room, a better seat with your own two armrests and drinks served in real glassware.

Lufthansa launched Premium Economy in January 2015. According to its CEO, it has been a super hit. On Lufthansa, these seats sell out fast.
Cathay Airlines launched PE recently. United is a laggard, but they too sense the business potential and plan to launch in the near future.

On a 8+ hour flight, if you cannot fly Business Class, then Premium Economy is the way to go.
Your two suitcases will fly free. And yes, you can pick your seats in advance without paying $30 or $35 per seat assignment.

BKKguru

[Smoothy]

I have some reason to hate Arabs? I actually think Aussies, my nationality are noisier on planes and can't get my earphones on fast enough!

I have found that some arabs have quite poor manners. Have you flown an arabic airline and sat on the aisle? I have had many bad experiences. Often, they stand up most of the flight right next to you with their butt in your face talking with their buddies seated across the aisle from you. That has happened to me multiple times. One time in business class on Qatar airways, I had the aisle and some Arabic guy stood next to me the entire flight talking to another Arabic guy seated next to me at the window (talking over me the entire time). I nicely asked the guy next to the window to change seats with me so he and his friend could talk, and he refused saying he liked the window seat.

Just recently, I flew Lion air to Bali. Some Arabic guys (obviously not upper class or very well educated from the way they acted) were on the flight. As we were getting on the flight, they actually pushed past people to get to their seats. They would not wait in the cue, they literally forced themselves past people to get to their seats. So odd. Then when the plane landed, they did the same thing. They got up and forced their way past everyone in the aisle to get off the plane.

I don't mind Aussies being loud. At least they stay out of my face and don't crowd my space. Indians do that shit too. I can be waiting in a cue and if there is an Indian guy behind me, he will be pushing right up against me. I can ask them to stop it, but they don't. So I let them go ahead of me and push into the person that was in front of me.

[CzarNicholas]

I remember very fondly a flight with Singapore air with two stunning hostesses, and also one very pleasant with North West Airlines, the great hostess helps a lot.

I almost always have caught a virus after a flight of 9 hours plus. I expect it every time. I recover much quicker in Thailand than elsewhere, probably due to humidity and heat. Maybe diet helps. Kissing Thai hookers seems a lot less dangerous than long flights for catching viruses.

Beware the Air Asia may have a bad safety record for Indonesian and Malaysian Franchises. Just a warning from my aviation safety engineer buddy.

Flying from Bangkok to Manila.

A few minutes before landing the attendant starts spraying some very very strong chemical spray into the vents whilst walking past.

I am not easily bothered by these things, but I was choking uncontrollably as were others, I asked wtf are you doing?

She apologized and said it was health dept protocol? It was my guess they were aware of a very very ill passenger) it was very very strong, well before I even arrived to my hotel in manila I was getting very very ill and I didn't get out of bed for a couple of days.

I am not an infectious disease specialist, is anyone aware of any preventive measures that can prevent this? I was very ill, if not for the fact I was in manila.

And the admonition from mr tooms about medical "doctors" with crucifix wounds on their hands etc etc LOL I would have sought medical tx!

Post-script Thai hookers seems safe enough for me.

Its the ones in Mexico that get me really really ill.

Almost every visit!

[Smoothy]

Maybe this had something to do with it.

The carry on KLM had me check (and pay 84 euros) that one flight is the same size as the smallest bag on the right of this photo. I almost left it. The bag and it's contents was hardly even worth 84 euros. They did that because the first leg of the flight was from London to Amsterdam and the plane they used for that flight was a tiny little puddle jumper propeller plane with hardly any room. But when I was on the flight, there was plenty of room for that bag in the overhead. It cost 84 euros because I had to pay for it to be sent all the way to Indonesia. I felt it was absurd to have to check that bag.

[Syzygies]

But what I really don't like is sitting anywhere near someone who is sick and coughing. Wow that pisses me off more than just about anything. Hey take some medicine and cover your face, you ass hole.

But more important than all these pet peeves is the fact that flying used to be fun back in the day and it is a god damn pain in the ass now and the fault is mostly with the airlines.

I remember very fondly a flight with Singapore air with two stunning hostesses, and also one very pleasant with North West Airlines, the great hostess helps a lot.

I almost always have caught a virus after a flight of 9 hours plus. I expect it every time. I recover much quicker in Thailand than elsewhere, probably due to humidity and heat. Maybe diet helps. Kissing Thai hookers seems a lot less dangerous than long flights for catching viruses.

Beware the Air Asia may have a bad safety record for Indonesian and Malaysian Franchises. Just a warning from my aviation safety engineer buddy.

[Member #4698]

Some interesting conversations on flying, but I can't recall when I flew on any airline without a preassigned seat and I would be damn pissed off if my fully paid seating was altered at the last minute by the airlines. On intercontinental routes I fly mostly Star Alliance: United, Swiss Air, Thai Air, ANA, etc or Sky Team: Delta, Air France, Korean Air, and China Eastern. In Asia I fly Air Asia, Thai Air, Singapore Air, Cebu Pacific, Philippine Air ect, but again all with preassigned seating and under most circumstances except an emergency, I would not fly any other way. I like the aisle (more leg room) and up front as much as possible for faster entry and exiting. On the intercontinental flights I pay up for more leg room. One time a pretty passenger asked me to change seats so she could sit with her boyfriend. Her seat was a middle seat several rows behind my seat. I politely told her why I wouldn't trade. I also don't like sitting next to babies. Most, not all make a racket at some point in the flight. But what I really don't like is sitting anywhere near someone who is sick and coughing. Wow that pisses me off more than just about anything. Hey take some medicine and cover your face, you ass hole.

But more important than all these pet peeves is the fact that flying used to be fun back in the day and it is a god damn pain in the ass now and the fault is mostly with the airlines. They are ass sucking bastards and they don't give a shit about their passengers comfort or repeat business. They only care about maximizing profit on every flight so they design the planes like cattle cars sticking as many passengers on a plane as possible and they construct tight scheduling algorithms to minimize empty seats on every flight. They have it down to a science. And they are always devising new ways to charge their customers ie squeeze more profit per ticket.

I will say this, however, that there is still a palpable difference between the Western Nation Airlines and the Asian Airlines. The Asian National Airlines are better. My preferred way to fly to BKK from Florida, USA is the Euro route because it is a couple of hours shorter duration that the trans Pacific route and because the plane lands in BKK in the morning instead of 9:30 or later in the evening with the Pacific flights. So, I often fly on a United Airlines ticket: Swiss Air MIA to Zurich and then Thai Air to BKK. The difference between flying Swiss Air or any Western country airline and flying Thai Air is amazing. The Thai stewardess are nice and actually try to make passengers comfortable. What a novel approach. 555. On my last trip I flew the Trans Pacific route free with miles on a Delta ticket. Delta was Delta per usual no surprise, but China Eastern Airlines which I flew from BKK to Shanghai on the 1st leg of my return flight was surprisingly nice. Will wonders never cease. But leaving BKK at 2 AM really sucks. Another reason why I don't like the trans Pacific route.

But when I am in Asia I fly all the local Asian carriers, again always with preassigned seating. So as for BKK arrivals and departures, I hate Swampy. Who doesn't? Their immigration lines are outrageous. To make visitors wait in line, sometimes up to an hour just to get their passports stamped so they can enter Thailand and spend money in the local economy is an insult. Compare it to Singapore or even Jakarta immigration. It is unbelievable. I realize I can buy fast track Thai entry. I might do that next trip although I have noticed on numerous entries that the lines are not that bad on the Thai Airlines arrivals from Europe. Anyway, to avoid the long immigration lines I tend to fly Air Asia in and out of DMk a lot for short flights to neighboring Asian countries. Much less hassle at DMK although when you fly that way you are stuck with mostly Air Asia. LOL. You can't win! They won't let you win. 555.

So this is my aviation blues. I hate flying. It used to be fun. It used to be adventurous. Shit, I remember before 9/11 I used to bring weed on board planes and smoke in the plane's bathroom. Hell, I remember when smoking cigarettes was allowed on planes and planes were usually only 75% full. Back then I used to fly Miami to Ams lying down, fully stretched out sleeping in my own entire 4 seat middle row. Those were the days. I would then lay over in AMS for a couple of nights, get stoned in the coffee shops and wander around the red-light district. And then fly off to BKK arriving on a half full plane in the morning BKK time. Nowadays, I don't care what WESTERN airlines you are flying with, it's flying by cattle car. But we put up with it because we don't have much choice and because we know that when we arrive in SE Asia we are actually arriving in the land of milk and honey. But I wonder what the profit margin would be if an Airline began flying a certain number of intercontinental flights charging more money for their tickets obviously, but designing the plane throughout with decent size seats and reasonable space between seats. Would the consumers support such an offering or is the public hooked on so called minimal pricing. I don't know, but it might be an interesting experiment for one Airline to try. Who knows? It might be profitable and then it could catch on.

[Mr Enternational]

Maybe this had something to do with it.

[BKKguru]

I have seen hostesses ask guys to change seats to facilitate others.
<snip>
If people wish to sit together, they can pay the premium to do that.

"If people wish to sit together, they can pay the premium to do that. ".

You are missing the point. Three years ago, there was NO fee to select a seat in Economy Class.
It does NOT cost the Airline any extra Dollars to assign seats in advance. This is a ploy to grab more Dollars from the Economy Class passenger.

To be clear, I am only talking about full fare airlines, not Budget Airlines like Air Asia, Ryan Air etc.

As you point out, this does put an additional burden on the Cabin staff.
This excludes United Airlines, where Economy Class Passengers have the same status as garbage.

BKKguru

[PedroMorales]

I do not see why you have to pay a premium to sit families together? If they increased the fares to incorporate grouped seating I wouldn't notice an increase of $20 in $5000 worth of fares.

As far as protecting my family I will go "Rambo". You do not know my family dynamic's and I will not explain them here so I do take offence that you are quick to judge me and imply that I have some reason to hate Arabs? I actually think Aussies, my nationality are noisier on planes and can't get my earphones on fast enough!

The other passengers did gladly change seats but I do not see that as their responsibility because the airline does have a duty of care and I am sure that extends to more then just taking off, flying properly and landing safely.

In regards to giving others a bad name I haven't had an experience of a mid air punch up so maybe I am not such a big ass hole as you imply.

If you decide to start your own family revisit this situation and tell me you would allow your child to sit next to a total stranger on an overnight flight with the airline telling you to suck it up.

Most airlines allow you to buy seats together for a premium. If your seats are not allocated together, too bad as you did not pay extra to get them together. Although children, the old or the infirm are reasons to sit together, people always try to bend the rules so the airline has to be rigid. Some crew are ruder than others. Most are fed up of a minority of passengers bending the rules in ways big or small. My last flight, crew were complaining out loud of the huge size of the carry on luggage of the usual parasitical suspects. The future of airlines is budget and pay for every and all extras. Penny pinchers are making the same complaint about them (paying extra to be seated together) as you are here.

I was assaulted on a plane. Luckily I had one of the crew as witness and got the scum bag arrested (pushed over and then had my face squeezed when passing him). I have changed my MO and fly less often as I find those with entitlement issues to be pains both in the airports and on the planes.

The only upside, as I say, is I get to bone a few crew. And wonder why they put up with all the BS of their horrible job.

[Rob Jones]

I am bonking two airline hostesses on a P4P basis. Our pillow talk consists of stuff like the above. The airline sells you getting from A to be safely. All others are incidental they tell me. That includes seats. If there are children involved, most people would gladly change seats. I have done it several times and seen it done many times more. I have seen hostesses ask guys to change seats to facilitate others.

You, on the other hand, want to go all Rambo straight out of the traps. You sound like one of those guys who object to Arabs or others speaking Arabic on flights and definitely the type of guy who starts trouble and gives mongers a bad name.

If people wish to sit together, they can pay the premium to do that. I've had to sit beside grossly obese people who are so disgustingly fat one seat belt is not enough for them. I've been in punch ups on flights. All the airlinbe wants to do is move passengers from A to be and land in one piece. It is a crap job dealing with ass holes. It's only upside is I get good bonks at a cut price rate out of it.

I do not see why you have to pay a premium to sit families together? If they increased the fares to incorporate grouped seating I wouldn't notice an increase of $20 in $5000 worth of fares.

As far as protecting my family I will go "Rambo". You do not know my family dynamic's and I will not explain them here so I do take offence that you are quick to judge me and imply that I have some reason to hate Arabs? I actually think Aussies, my nationality are noisier on planes and can't get my earphones on fast enough!

The other passengers did gladly change seats but I do not see that as their responsibility because the airline does have a duty of care and I am sure that extends to more then just taking off, flying properly and landing safely.

In regards to giving others a bad name I haven't had an experience of a mid air punch up so maybe I am not such a big ass hole as you imply.

If you decide to start your own family revisit this situation and tell me you would allow your child to sit next to a total stranger on an overnight flight with the airline telling you to suck it up.

[Banana Boi]

I still fly KLM because there are the odd flights KLM has that are dirt cheap. One example is Kuala Lumpur to Jakarta in business class with lay flat seats for 3600 baht. Jakarta to KL is slightly more at 4000 baht. Includes 2 free check in and 1 carry on bag. Economy is 1215 baht but with only 1 check in bag and a carry on. Pretty impressive price for a 2+ hour flight.

If other airlines offer true business class at these rates please let me know.

[Smoothy]

My company once booked me on KLM to USA as was supposedly cheaper. Unfortunately as I was a long time away from home, I had significantly more than the standard luggage allowance and maybe got charged 200 euros for extra luggage, making it not cheap at all.

Funny, that's the exact same reason I haven't flown KLM in 20 years. They charged me a bullshit 84 euros for a tiny carry on bag that I have never had to check with any other airline ever. I bring it with me everywhere even to this day. I told them at the time that if they wanted to do that, I would never fly KLM again. They didn't seem concerned, so I have not flown them again and hopefully never will.