German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Pistons]

I've met plenty of Romanian girls in FKK's in both Germany and Austria who has been where I live. Working. But for maybe just a trip or two. So consider Europe more as one large market. Anything else is naive.

[Pistons]

Are most WGs working in apartments or as escorts?

Thanks.

Incall / outcall. Most do both. But it is just more expensive to get outcall I suppose. Or does it make people feel better to name it escort instead of apartment worker? Some girls stay in hotels too, so they tour.

[Pistons]

Thanks a lot, Pistons.

I have several of last questions for you.

Are there less WGs now than before the law was implemented? I would think there are much less WGs now because men are afraid of being caught.

Are the WGs mainly from foreign countries like Romania? If Germany had Nordic model, do you think from your sense that vast majority of the WGs in Germany would still come from Romania (LOL)?

Are most WGs working in apartments or as escorts?

Thanks.

The numbers are identical as before the law was introduced. Only some nationalities have changed the past 20 years. Such as there is hardly any polish girls around nowadays, while the polish had plenty 1015 years ago. But the diversity is higher than in Germany even though Romanians (and Moldovan) are the majority. Some south american girls, Russians, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Czech etc. Previously the age was higher for the average girls, but it has gone down a bit the last 5 years at the same time Germany has deteriorated a bit. So the old ones feel a squeeze I suppose.

Mainly apartment ads and a few streetwalkers. Streetwalkers are clearly pimped I suppose, and only Rom / Bul, but some apartment girls may be on their own. There used to be Nigerian streetwalkers too, but the Nigerian crime syndicate got kicked out by some of the EE groups.

[Bfsie]

Cops are busy wanking. Heck, I believe 99% of all cases gets thrown away. This is seen as petty crimes. So unless there is a massive media hype around trafficking in single cities, cops won't spend resources on it. And from what I hear, locals are less of a target as compared to 'tourists'. But the fines can be large if you get one I suppose. Many girls also point out in their ads that they only take local customers also. And some target out certain backgrounds as not allowed. Such as African or Arabic for example. So selective ra* But there was more of that a few years ago. So it is a bit hard to say the reason for this I suppose.

Then again, prices have fallen since the laws were implemented. And its not good for the girls. But a lositive the last few years now is that the girls are getting prettier, as the general mindset is that Germany is less attractive. And the German market has historically attracted more girls.

Thanks a lot, Pistons.

I have several of last questions for you.

Are there less WGs now than before the law was implemented? I would think there are much less WGs now because men are afraid of being caught.

Are the WGs mainly from foreign countries like Romania? If Germany had Nordic model, do you think from your sense that vast majority of the WGs in Germany would still come from Romania (LOL)?

Are most WGs working in apartments or as escorts?

Thanks.

[Gino02]

Not knowing anything about Germany, I don't know how out of norm is that specific party in that province & how inline with all the other parties at the country level on this issue. In other words, how influential is their resolution in that one province before such a thing becomes the law of the whole land?

I think the 2017 law implemented some minor changes and very little has changed in terms of actual availability of sex in any shape. Several billion Euros are made every year and this industry provides employment and sustenance to several hundreds of thousands of people and an outlet to many many men seeking sex. I would not jump to any conclusion that their provincial resolution leads to any outright ban on sale and purchase of sex in the near term at the country level.

Also, even in the very worst case, the risk is to entities like FKKs and other overt symbols of sex trade. BFsie, from what you said, you are primarily using sugarbabes for sex of late, and perhaps other services that are not necessarily FKKs. Sex sale and purchase have been illegal in the US at a nationwide level forever with the exception of a few small pockets. But even in deep red states, sugar babe business is flourishing. I just checked and counted several dozen young pretty women online at this very moment in a smallish city like Salt Lake City, which is an extremely reliable GOP bastion..

Well, don't be so comfortable about the future of pay sex in Germany. You have already seen the effects of 2017 laws that unnecessarily destabilized the German standard pricing model to a price haggling model similar to USA and UK. You never know what happens when liberals go crazy; they will ban plastic straws but provide free plastic syringes to inject heroine. Or like in UK, they will hold a vote but will not respect the result of the vote if they lose. Someone might just start another #MeToo movement against all pay sex, including arrangements like Seeking.com. In fact, weren't the Harvey Weinstein cases actually the Sugar Babes arrangements of that era? Be careful out there brother.

[Bfsie]

Also, even in the very worst case, the risk is to entities like FKKs and other overt symbols of sex trade. BFsie, from what you said, you are primarily using sugarbabes for sex of late, and perhaps other services that are not necessarily FKKs. Sex sale and purchase have been illegal in the US at a nationwide level forever with the exception of a few small pockets. But even in deep red states, sugar babe business is flourishing. I just checked and counted several dozen young pretty women online at this very moment in a smallish city like Salt Lake City, which is an extremely reliable GOP bastion. I think the same is true for other bible thumping regional cities. With the internet and guys and girls getting matched up one to one through an exchange like sugar babe site (seeking.com or other), the number of interactions to monitor are in the millions per day. I am not seeing any evidence that federal authorities are either interested in cracking down on these one to one exchanges or pursuing legal charges against the guys or girls. As long as sex is not being sold at the traffic light stops by obviously looking prostitutes, things seem to be fine around here and I doubt very much that Germany becomes less tolerant and more draconian than USA in the near term.

It wouldn't affect me that much even if Germany adopted Nordic model as you alluded because I am mainly using sugarbabies now. I agree that Sugarbabe business is very difficult for the authority in any country to combat with and get any evidence of chargeable criminal offence.

[Bfsie]

How realistic is it for this law to pass though?

Not knowing anything about Germany, I don't know how out of norm is that specific party in that province & how inline with all the other parties at the country level on this issue. In other words, how influential is their resolution in that one province before such a thing becomes the law of the whole land?

I don't know. It seems to get the momentum now in the SPD, one of two biggest parties in Germany historically. Some smaller parties in Germany have already committed to adopt Nordic model, so did some lawmakers in almost all the parties.

I wonder how common was it prior to 2017 to see such articles and hear about political parties wanting to end prostitution in Germany?

And Mr Ho, Pessimist.

Not at all. In fact I have never heard of it before 2018. As I said before, the core problem is that those politicians are fighting a defenseless enemy, the sex industry which doesn't have any organization representing them politically unlike say the industries in USA. German sex industry with annual revenue of about 15 billions euro doesn't have a single political lobby group or its trade union representing the industry and every FKK club, brothel, monger and so on are on their own. Vast majority of the German parliamentarians are not die-hard opponents of prostitution and they can be either for Nordic model or against Nordic model. But if they don't face any resistance from sex industry, they will go along with a few die-hard politicians who strongly oppose prostitution and want to adopt Nordic model. A few politicians saw no reaction and resistance of the 2017 new law from sex industry and want to take advantage of the weakness of sex industry in Germany now unfortunately.

Lastly is Austria / Switzerland facing a similar attack against prostitution and are they also considering the shitty Nordic model?

I don't know anything about Austria and Switzerland.

[Pistons]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.

Cops are busy wanking. Heck, I believe 99% of all cases gets thrown away. This is seen as petty crimes. So unless there is a massive media hype around trafficking in single cities, cops won't spend resources on it. And from what I hear, locals are less of a target as compared to 'tourists'. But the fines can be large if you get one I suppose. Many girls also point out in their ads that they only take local customers also. And some target out certain backgrounds as not allowed. Such as African or Arabic for example. So selective ra* But there was more of that a few years ago. So it is a bit hard to say the reason for this I suppose.

Then again, prices have fallen since the laws were implemented. And its not good for the girls. But a lositive the last few years now is that the girls are getting prettier, as the general mindset is that Germany is less attractive. And the German market has historically attracted more girls.

[Pessimist]

Not knowing anything about Germany, I don't know how out of norm is that specific party in that province & how inline with all the other parties at the country level on this issue. In other words, how influential is their resolution in that one province before such a thing becomes the law of the whole land?

I think the 2017 law implemented some minor changes and very little has changed in terms of actual availability of sex in any shape. Several billion Euros are made every year and this industry provides employment and sustenance to several hundreds of thousands of people and an outlet to many many men seeking sex. I would not jump to any conclusion that their provincial resolution leads to any outright ban on sale and purchase of sex in the near term at the country level.

Also, even in the very worst case, the risk is to entities like FKKs and other overt symbols of sex trade. BFsie, from what you said, you are primarily using sugarbabes for sex of late, and perhaps other services that are not necessarily FKKs. Sex sale and purchase have been illegal in the US at a nationwide level forever with the exception of a few small pockets. But even in deep red states, sugar babe business is flourishing. I just checked and counted several dozen young pretty women online at this very moment in a smallish city like Salt Lake City, which is an extremely reliable GOP bastion. I think the same is true for other bible thumping regional cities. With the internet and guys and girls getting matched up one to one through an exchange like sugar babe site (seeking.com or other), the number of interactions to monitor are in the millions per day. I am not seeing any evidence that federal authorities are either interested in cracking down on these one to one exchanges or pursuing legal charges against the guys or girls. As long as sex is not being sold at the traffic light stops by obviously looking prostitutes, things seem to be fine around here and I doubt very much that Germany becomes less tolerant and more draconian than USA in the near term.

[MythoVirus]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.

I wonder how common was it prior to 2017 to see such articles and hear about political parties wanting to end prostitution in Germany? I got into the FKK scene in 2016, so I didn't do any research prior, is it really escalating quickly or was it the norm even 10-15 years to hear about some political parties wanting to ban the sex industry. Reading those articles just make me depressed, as we all know prostitution will never fade away or be hard to find, but legal brothels and specifically the FKK sauna clubs is just not comparable to escorts / street hookers and can certainly cease to exist if the Nordic model is enforced. Lastly is Austria / Switzerland facing a similar attack against prostitution and are they also considering the shitty Nordic model?

[Sirioja]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.

Prostitution is not illegal in France, but prosecution for clients, but when I find a attractive escort, unfortunately more and more rare, even with rdv4U, but now not on ex AMR or charme russe level, but then no problem in apartment or hotel. Also prosecution for clients in Sweden. Old Germans will be sad if they can't fuck AO anymore poor girls.

[Mr Ho]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html.

How realistic is it for this law to pass though?

I mean with all the FKK and other licensed brothels in Germany, it is unlikely such law will pass and I imagine most members of parliaments are men, so that also help a bit to go against such law. I hope.

[Bfsie]

The SPD (a German political party) in Baden-Wrttemberg wants to criminalize the purchase of sexual services. The members passed a resolution at the party convention in Heidenheim.

https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.spd-landesparteitag-in-heidenheim-spd-will-kauf-von-sex-unter-strafe-stellen.dfe17367-b5ae-45f5-9b5b-70307fe2c22c.html


BigBuddy69, Sirioja, Pistons (I assume you are from one of Nordic countries).

I am curious: how difficult and dangerous is it for French men and say Swedish men to buy sex in their countries?, what are the punishments if you get caught? Can you explain a little? Thanks.

[Pessimist]

Yeah I have to caveat things with the fact that I love having "girlfriends" and I love texting with girls every night. You'the think I was a millennial! So a lot of texting is good for me. I am always bummed if none of my cuties are around or up for a chat any given night.

Also I look for a real date and the escorts are not down to spend four hours with you. They might have a drink but are ready to fuck and get their cash. The non-pros enjoy the date itself (or are exceeding patient). My dates are usually 3-4 hours so you need a girl you have really established on line chemistry with.

I think I would be happy to have lot of dates as well except I have some other personal circumstance which makes too many public dates a little impractical and also while I enjoy the dates I want to know upfront that sex is on the table. Some girls also expect some payment for dates that doesn't involve sex. Clearly that does not interest me. I have time management issues so I like to keep these texting convos a bit short.

But I can totally understand enjoying texting with young pretty girls. Gives a feeling of GFE. If I could, I would do things like movies, museums, outdoor excursions, beach or hiking or boating etc but time is a huge problem. I am glad these things work out better for you.

[Steve 9696]

I have been on SA for more than 5 years although in between I took some breaks and tried other sites and even on Tinder. Seeking has been my best sugarbabe site so far and where I had the most amount of success, but other sites provided a few hits here and there.

That said, I have an different approach to yours. I treat this as a volume game. And the volumes are very large in my area. I'm lucky enough to live in an area of more than a couple of million people within 50 mile radius and it is also not super expensive. I. E it is not SF or NYC. Every day I see several dozens of new faces in my search and I look for just slim, 27 and mostly white girls (occasionally a Puerto Rican or Asian or other Latino). No offense, those are my preferred types.

The other issue is that many girls are active only briefly and do not login for days and many of them are so finicky that they delete their account and leave or they simply block you after a couple of innocuous messages. Trying to build up a huge rapport and relationship with a few chosen ones simply doesn't work for me, because those could leave anytime without a trace.

I liken this to catching small fish in an ocean. It is a porous net and the fish are easily slipping out. I have to cast a wide net, and not focus on a few premeditated targets.

I bring up the fact that I will give allowance in the first couple of messages. Almost all the girls are there on the site for money, so this should be made clear. This matters because from my discussions with many girls, a lot of guys are trying to cop free dates and even sex with girls without paying any allowance. Telling her that you will give allowance is an important confidence booster.

I also do not care if the girl is an obvious hooker or a genuine student trying to make a few bucks and then quit sugarbabing. I mean, if I'm happy to bang the WGs in FKKs, why should I discriminate against hookers on seeking.com? If the girl is young, fresh, and attractive she is those things, hooker or not. That said, most of the girls I have fucked are quite amateur and for 90% of them, I was their first sugar daddy.

I also don't try to hide my intention that I'm here for sex. I don't put it in my profile screaming "I want to fuck on the first meet", but when the girl asks what I want, I politely say that I want to get to know her, understand what she is open to and what she likes to do and go from there based on our mutual interests. She gets the point. They say a woman knows whether she wants to fuck a guy or not in the first 30 seconds after meeting him. The seeking equivalent is, a girl knows almost guys are there for sex, but only 50% of girls on seeking will have sex (the remaining want to be strictly platonic, or do pics and videos exchange, or dinners and dates for pay but no sex); the idea is for the guy to know what kinda category she falls into within the first 10 messages. I don't want to waste my time sending 200 messages to a girl who will simply not budge from "strictly platonic" stance.

Almost all the girls will ask what I am seeking within first few messages. Granted, I have had several dozen messages with *a few girls* who are simply not ready for FWB arrangements and are hesitant to even meet for a coffee. But then, I'm not paying for those messages, so I don't mind. But by and large, most girls come to the point in their first 10 messages and we move the discussion to phone or kik (for some reason, kik is the most favored app for these girls on seeking, way more than any other app).

In the end, your success rate and the amount you pay are largely decided by your location. I have used seeking to meet girls I other cities apart from home city when I'm on business travels, and it is very clear that this is largely a regional market, very much like housing. You can find depressed housing prices in a locality and overheated in a different region and same is true for sugarbabes. In that sense, I'm somewhat lucky where I am. My problem is trying to find enough time to juggle so many balls in the air and trying to manage the budget time and money wise.

Yeah I have to caveat things with the fact that I love having "girlfriends" and I love texting with girls every night. You'the think I was a millennial! So a lot of texting is good for me. I am always bummed if none of my cuties are around or up for a chat any given night.

Also I look for a real date and the escorts are not down to spend four hours with you. They might have a drink but are ready to fuck and get their cash. The non-pros enjoy the date itself (or are exceeding patient). My dates are usually 3-4 hours so you need a girl you have really established on line chemistry with.