Kyiv

[Habeed]

1. Read the FAQ. Pay for subscription. Then you can PM. Payments help to cover ISG site expenses.

2. Please do not bother PM me though. Read below. Besides I am definitely not a pimp. And flattery doesn't work on me.

3. Kiev seems to frustrate you. If you don't like it, go to Moscow. Or Tijuana. The latter one is very transactional. Truly well oiled machine.

I just wanted to shoot the breeze and or find how you found your stable. I am well aware that the 1 in 10 girl you find who is decent is a valuable commodity and I would not expect you to share without an equal or better trade.

I don't enjoy your tone in this message.

[Habeed]

Opinion different from yours doesn't mean incorrect. Seems to work for Ukrainians making money off of visitors for the last few hundred years.

Ukraine seems to have a number of businesses with "scam" level prices. That is, they charge between double and ten times but don't offer any more value for the extra money.

They would mostly fail in the USA. And you see them deserted of customers here. But I concede that the occasional foreign "whale" who falls for the scam obviously is very profitable for the business and they keep the doors open.

Or not, could be they are all money laundering, dunno.

[Jimm987]

Hi,

Which Kiev agency could you recommend?

Thanks.

Huh! The admiration is all mutual!

Agree with you. Precisely a year ago I had a negotiation with exclusive Kiev agency over Viber. Mamasan asked 9000 UAH for 4 hours. I countered with 4000. She responded with saying verbatim:

- My girls aren't prostitutes!

- I never said they are. Quality of their services speaks for itself. Yet I would rather go with one of my free girlfriends. 5000 for 6 hours? Let me know please, as I have a business meeting coming up.

- 6000 for 4 hours!

- Sorry, I have a conference call starting now.

- You're twisting my hands! 5000 UAH for 4 hours.

- Deal. I cancel conference call. How soon can she be here?.

[PhotoSlider]

I don't seem to be able to PM you. Photoslider are you in Kiev this week? Perhaps we could meet in person, I would very much like to learn from the master.

1. Read the FAQ. Pay for subscription. Then you can PM. Payments help to cover ISG site expenses.

2. Please do not bother PM me though. Read below. Besides I am definitely not a pimp. And flattery doesn't work on me.

3. Kiev seems to frustrate you. If you don't like it, go to Moscow. Or Tijuana. The latter one is very transactional. Truly well oiled machine.

[PhotoSlider]

Ukrainians seem to have a different (and incorrect) theory of economics.

Opinion different from yours doesn't mean incorrect. Seems to work for Ukrainians making money off of visitors for the last few hundred years.

[Habeed]

Sorry, man! Not online with a newbie. Nothing against you personally, but I exchange info either in person, or with those who already established themselves as respected contributors on this Forum.

I don't seem to be able to PM you. Photoslider are you in Kiev this week? Perhaps we could meet in person, I would very much like to learn from the master.

[Habeed]

Question for Photoslider: can you share with us the list of sites or methods you use to find girls? FINDING girls who I can communicate with (perhaps there is a translator I can hire?) who don't have GPS is a big problem here. A million hot girls but if you can't speak the language and you feel awkward approaching in the street.

So I am on week 3 of a 3 week trip to Ukraine. I started in Lviv, for personal reasons, but after trying for 5 days I took a train to Kiev. Lviv has jack shit. I found 4 different brothels. Two have a "taxi lineup" where several girls come crammed in a taxi to your place and you pick one. All are terrible. Out of 4 brothels, and about 15 girls I saw and 4 I fucked, the service was mediocre with all, and all were older and fatter. Also none had a pretty face.

Without an idea how photoslider did it, I went to a site I am familiar with in the USA, seeking arrangement.

So this site only works in Kiev, there are not sufficient girls yet on the site in any of the other Ukrainian cities. And the problem with most of the seeking girls is GPS. They have a hugely inflated sense of their market value. I have seen quotes for 1000 euro, 500 euro, 500 usd several times, and a couple for 300. Worse, if you offer something reasonable most will refuse. I also tried saying yes, and those girls harass me constantly. This is because they may set their prices this high, but they are getting very few sales at that price. Ukrainians don't seem to understand the relationship between price and demand.

Anyways, I eventually saw 3 girls. One met me at the mall and scammed me out of about $40. "let's buy a gift for my sister". The amount was so small that I didn't really expect her to scam me.

The second I fucked for 250 USD. She was the lowest quote I had seen and I wanted to at least see what that would buy me. Basically a hooker experience with DFK with that one. (not even a BBBJ).

The third I am still seeing. She's some poor unemployed student, about a 7 with great legs and butt. Far more GFE an experience, she comes over and watches TV with me and we cuddle and the sex comes naturally. And the first time I started handing her money and she stopped me at 2 k uah. I have given here 3 k uah each meeting afterwards, my choice, part of that "efficiency wage" theory of economics.

But she is kind of flakey, has school and raves and needs to visit her parent's house and other young people stuff.

So I think the obvious, most efficient way to do this is to find a couple of girls like this, where you have an ongoing mistress like relationship and see them several times a week (for a payment appropriate for local prices). You need at least 2 girls because of the flakiness of Ukrainian women. Get mutually tested so you can stop bothering with condoms. (I know, not foolproof, if you are really worried about it you can go on PreP).

I have also fucked a few of the apartment brothel girls. The way you find these brothels is there are touts who will take you to them around the Arena City entrance, the one by Vapianos. Try after 11 pm, guarantee you will find several.

I will observe that there are several price points for the brothels, but the price has little to do with what you will get. The 4 k UAH one I went to tonight, and it had one fat girl and one thick girl. I then went to a 2600 UAH place, and fucked the skinniest girl they had. She cheated me out of the rest of the hour, once I finished in 20 minutes she put her clothes back on. The 2100 UAH place, one that is near Mama Manana on the top floor is the actually efficient business. It has far more girls, they do lineups in lingerie so you can consistently pick the ones with the best bodies, and nearly all the girls will stay the full hour. Some do extra things like BBBJs and stripper slides and DFK, though most won't.

Naturally the most expensive places have zero traffic, you don't even see how they stay in business. Ukrainians seem to have a different (and incorrect) theory of economics.

[Arkiloko]

Since goldenpantheras' shooting down by police, I was looking online for some other salon.

I'd like to know if someone of these gentlemen never tried them.

Starting from Flirt club (club-flirt.com) near Maidan I suppose. From 1200 to 1600/ h.

Another one is hot-kiss. Club. It seems not bad 1600-2000 gvna/h

Last one Apelsin t. Me / ApelsinGirls they start from 800, if you dare.

Does anybody know something about them?

[Arkiloko]

Wish I was that unfortunate!

I'd also like it.

[TinyHippo]

Just wanted to share my method for optimizing the results of the P2 P efforts in Kiev. I have been chatting privately with PhotoSlider and we shared some ways of doing but I will keep that part pvt for us.

However, there is a solid method which is working very well for me. No magic but concrete, it requires a great effort.

You need time, a web browser and Internet connection.

Select a few sites which collect all sort of girls / ads, you know them all already.

1) Contact each of them and try collect their phone numbers.

2) Take a screenshot of the girl and s few crucial notes from their ads which you consider important (e. G. Age, breast size, services, taboos, whatever you like).

3) Create a new entry in your Google contact list for each of them and associate the pic / screenshot with the comments.

After some years of this effort, I have now a huge DB of numbers / pics which allows me to quickly separate inde from agencies (I am more after the former because I hate the bait / switch from agencies and don't like to have a dispatcher in the middle). 70% of the numbers I collect today are already in my DB and I can spot fakes and agencies very quickly (big gain for me). I also developed a quite good attitude in spotting fake pics from all the rest, new girls from pro, etc. It's very funny now to find numbers which are 2-3 years old still valid and working.

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead

I do something similar. I have a separate phone for mongering and just take a screen shot of their Mamba / Tinder / etc. And use it as their contact photo and their name will be something like "Vlada, 23, Kyiv" in my phone. So, Kyiv is searchable in my contacts. If I have met them already, I put them to the bottom of my contacts by changing it to "Z_Vlada, 23, Kyiv" for a rainy day. If I plan to not see a girl again, I will just delete the number. No reason to have 100 numbers. 20 is fine with me as I tend to pay for a few and focus on freebies.

[PhotoSlider]

criterion for economical mongering should be happiness (including happy memories) per dollar spent, not orgasms per dollar / "bang per buck".

Totally agree. While there is a correlation between ejaculation and happiness, it goes well beyond purely physiological release and expands further into psychological, mental part of it. Attitude, manners, personality, and especially her tenderness, feminine side means so much more to me. Still without good sex, the girl may last only if there is at least one more young lady currently available for satisfaction. I can handle multi-tasking.

I think many older guys who monger are looking to finally experience the type of ideal girlfriend (beautiful, always friendly and sexually available) that they wanted when they were younger....

That is precisely what I am looking for. Illusion of returning to Eternal Youth. Except I had that kind of girlfriends when I was significantly younger, and then, using your metaphor, my wheels fell off for about a decade. Took me another decade or more to get to a comfortable level of happiness that I have these days while in Kiev.

I don't see a problem, in itself, in marrying an ex-prostitute. Problem with me and my current Kyiv regular is the 30 year age difference. I'm at a point where I like being alone most of the time, so am pretty much unfit for marrying any woman, but especially unfit for someone who has her whole life ahead. I'm actually happy that she sees other men and never contacts me when I'm gone. Gives me the freedom to go off bicycling by myself in the desert like I'm doing now. When I come to Kyiv, she shows up reliably, is perfectly behaved for the several hours we are together, then reliably disappears. Like the girl in that television show "I Dream of Jeannie", who lived in a bottle until her master summoned her, then was supposed to shrink and go back into the bottle when master wanted that. Except Jeannie / Genie in that show was often troublesome (refused to go back into her bottle when so commanded, for example).

I'm planning on keeping my rental girlfriend indefinitely. But I'm aware that a girl so much younger might fall in love with a man closer to her age, or decide to have children, or otherwise disappear from my life at any time. So I prepare myself mentally for eventually having to seek a replacement. If she reaches age 40 (12 years from now), without marrying someone else, her book value might be close to zero in most men's eyes, but I might still find her attractive, based on having known her since she was much younger, so I might continuing seeing her until my own wheels fall off (sex no longer interests me) and handicapped spot is exactly what I'll be needing.

Strategic thinking at its finest!

I used to imagine that I want a dedicated high quality rental GF next to me for a long time. For multiple weeks. Then empirically I realized 2-3 days is a max. Freshness wears out, her orgasms become less artistic, and I feel the need for an "inlay" of hourly girls here and there while my long-term is away for finals at her University or is at beauty salon for a few hours.

I went further and over the last 2 years understood that the best modus operandi for myself is keeping a dynamic Harem of 3 to 5 readily available and well tested rental girlfriends. Some of them come for 2-3 days, some for 4-8 hours. The key must be their willingness to arive on a short notice, and to leave when asked to. Usually it is a time of arrival and departure agreed upon beforehand. Sometimes sudden change of plans forces me to ask the current attendant to leave sooner, for example due to unexpected meeting request from the girl whose priority is higher. In Kiev I certainly value how trustworthy girls leave without too many questions. Of course I do it in a respectful manner, occasionally providing better transportation with my personal driver and such. I certainly value their manners and attitude, yet still I work on seeking candidates to replenish the above Harem, as girls get married, move back home, graduate from University, change attitude, ask for more money than they are worth in my opinion.

I certainly have no illusions about them being dedicated strictly to me and no one else.

In my case it is many interlapping girls, indirectly competing for my time. That leads to occasional scheduling conflicts, and that is part of entertainment.

In yours, Kozerog, it is a firmly formulated personal choice of having one trusted girl. Makes it much easier in many respects.

[PhotoSlider]

...unfortunately my work is taking me to Kyiv...

Wish I was that unfortunate!

[PhotoSlider]

Much respect there PhotoSlider; care to share the contact / details. Thanks.

Sorry, man! Not online with a newbie. Nothing against you personally, but I exchange info either in person, or with those who already established themselves as respected contributors on this Forum.

That contact was given to me by another Senior Forum member a year ago, without the explicit right to pass it along.

Just so that you don't feel too bad about it, some of the girls were no good. One was great for about 10 minutes in bed, and 30 minutes later during our dinner together told me to "fuck off!" in a very unambiguous manner. She also did some other unacceptable deeds.

The other one tried to avoid kissing in the beginning, and became very close to GTFO. She quickly corrected her behavior though, and the morning after sleepover moaned loudly and rather sincerely. I had a cleaning maid arriving at 9 am, and 10 minutes before that, precisely at 8:50 am I asked for a BBBJ. She raised her eyebrow, and complied. Few months later she stayed with me overnight for free, not counting a nice dinner with few glasses of decent wine.

Two other girls were much better. One provided Greek for free and was lots of joy in many ways. The second girl is totally my favorite still today after more than a year. Both were ready to go on a short notice.

Anyway, Tits_Lover explained great working approach real well. Best of luck in building your own contacts DB, and sharing reports here. You can do it. Or go to Moscow instead.

[PhotoSlider]

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead

Precisely! Finally a wise man is on the Forum sharing my opinion that Kiev is terrible. The whole country of Ukraine is the armpit of Civilized World! It's a miracle that some of us have the courage to go there and suffer through bait and switch, and end up sleeping with old fat ugly overpriced Ukrainian women, while much much better options are available everywhere.

Go to Moscow. Or even better alternative, - Tijuana!

[Tits_Lover]

Just wanted to share my method for optimizing the results of the P2 P efforts in Kiev. I have been chatting privately with PhotoSlider and we shared some ways of doing but I will keep that part pvt for us.

However, there is a solid method which is working very well for me. No magic but concrete, it requires a great effort.

You need time, a web browser and Internet connection.

Select a few sites which collect all sort of girls / ads, you know them all already.

1) Contact each of them and try collect their phone numbers.

2) Take a screenshot of the girl and s few crucial notes from their ads which you consider important (e. G. Age, breast size, services, taboos, whatever you like).

3) Create a new entry in your Google contact list for each of them and associate the pic / screenshot with the comments.

After some years of this effort, I have now a huge DB of numbers / pics which allows me to quickly separate inde from agencies (I am more after the former because I hate the bait / switch from agencies and don't like to have a dispatcher in the middle). 70% of the numbers I collect today are already in my DB and I can spot fakes and agencies very quickly (big gain for me). I also developed a quite good attitude in spotting fake pics from all the rest, new girls from pro, etc. It's very funny now to find numbers which are 2-3 years old still valid and working.

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead