Bangkok Reports

[LittleBigMan]

Yes, LittleBig Man. When I had my short twelve hour stay in
Bumrangrad this past January I had a feeling that they were looking for every excuse possible to get me to stay longer. However, my insurance company reimbursed me after I submitted my receipts so think they were just eyeing my credit card to pay for any extras or for a longer stay. Quite rapacious, actually.

As far as rent costs and paying 27k bt for a place. I paid this amount for a 70 meter apt. in central Bangkok but as we all know, it is considerably cheaper to live in Pattaya. From rental costs to mongering, everything is much less in Pattaya.

To each his own but sq 70 meter I can and have lived in a 28 sq meter bungalow with a small cooking and sitting area outside, with exercise area and pool with free strong wifi. 70 meters I don't need that much room to get a running start off the balconey if things get bad or tough.

I pick up a Condo in Jomtien nothing fancy 8 stories ten years ago for 800,000 baht made sure it was a end unit did some modification guess it is around 28 Sq like a studio I upgraded some stuff and place it for rent cutting my price by 2000 baht, 5500 a month compare to others in the building but I was looking for a specific renter long term like me travels and lives light. Although it is under my wife name I have a life estate to the property if something happens to her down the road I plan to move in and when it is time and I have a major health problem I'm just going to jump and call it a day.

[Tomasb]

Yes, LittleBig Man. When I had my short twelve hour stay in
Bumrangrad this past January I had a feeling that they were looking for every excuse possible to get me to stay longer. However, my insurance company reimbursed me after I submitted my receipts so think they were just eyeing my credit card to pay for any extras or for a longer stay. Quite rapacious, actually.

As far as rent costs and paying 27k bt for a place. I paid this amount for a 70 meter apt. in central Bangkok but as we all know, it is considerably cheaper to live in Pattaya. From rental costs to mongering, everything is much less in Pattaya.

[LittleBigMan]

I have lived in 4 different apartments in popular tourist/expat areas of Bangkok over the past 7-8 years requiring an apartment search each time. My most recent move was during normal times about a year ago. I would say a clean, small box type place you referred to, what we called a studio apartment in the USA, very livable, nothing fancy, mostly furnished, in a safe, clean, well managed building with a kitchen, pool, fitness center and located easy walking distance from the red light bars and shops on lower Sukhumvit can be had for 15,000 baht per month, give or take 2,000 baht on either side of that.

I am talking about during normal times.

Add a generous average monthly electric bill with air conditioning in the 2,000 baht range, another couple of thousand baht per month to cover phone charges, internet, soap, deodorant, shampoo, detergent, etc, public transportation minus taxi runs, even annual retirement visa renewal costs.

I am 67, non smoker, no alarming pre existing conditions, generally good health and my monthly premium for 1,000,000 baht hospital in-patient and out-patient health insurance coverage is about 5800 baht. But that coverage exceeds the minimum required amount for my retirement visa. If I reduced it to the minimum required amount my premium would probably be about 4500 baht per month. Pacific Cross, the insurance provider company, states in writing that I can renew my coverage until age 95, after which they will renew on a case by case basis. Future premium costs are unknown to me.

I feel you can treat yourself to a normal amount of western menu food and drink comfortably for 1,000 baht per day on average. But that is western style food and normal drinking only for yourself. If you are picking up the tab for others or lifting a glass or bottle every 30 minutes throughout the day and into the evening it is going to be a lot more than 1,000 baht per day. Cooking breakfast or a quick lunch for yourself in your apartment, eating local Thai fare and so on can reduce the costs considerably.

So, before expenses for pussy and factoring in only comfortable but not lavish or upscale impressive living conditions for yourself, my calculations tell me 55,000 baht per month covers just about everything you need. Barring the unexpected health issue or sudden need to purchase the latest iPhone or 85" flatscreen tv.

Now, assuming your income stream is the minimum required 65,000 baht per month for an O-A Non Immigrant long stay retirement visa, that gives you 10,000 baht per month left over to cover the cost of 10 Short Times with 10 Sukhumvit/Soi 4 street girls or 4 Short Times with 4 Thermae girls or 2 Short Times with 2 go-go girls plus LDs, etc before you'll need to tap into additional income for your fun and pleasure.

I'm not trying to criticize or suggest other live in quarters like a box I guess I'm just out of touch with prices in Bangkok guess I'm spoil with the prices in Pattaya. Not being cheap or out of my budget if that is what I want to spend but 27,000 baht just glares at me?

I don't eat a lot of western meals basically at the start of the morning two cups of black coffee fuels most of my day. When alone I can get pretty much by on 5 baht of rice, 40 baht of steam vegetable, a grava green apply and top that off with a ice cream bar. My budget for GoGo is pretty much unlimited although I rarely partake just like to enjoy the view and relax at night.

When it comes to insurance from my experience it is one of the biggest rip off! When I first came here at 55 years old I purchased a 1. 5 million policy with an Expat club of course their biggest thing is " Pre-existing conditions " I had none but I noticed the policy went up 4 thousand a year told to get out since I was in good health and never use it since Expats in groups use it a lot reason the premium jumps so much. Through the years I been with companies like LMG, Bubba, CSV, AXA, all the fine print is pretty much the same " pre-exiting " policies ranging from 1 million to 1. 5 if not more as I got older the premium went up by the time I got to 60 I was paying 50,000 baht a year for 1. 5.

One day I found another expat policy with AXA 1 million for 29,000 baht great two years later AXA decided to discontinue the expat offer of 1 million 1. 5 if you wanted to stay with AXA they now wanted the same money 32,000 baht but they were now reducing their coverage to maximum 700,000 talking about a fuck job!

Underwriter said no problem we got a new company Pacific Cross, going to cover you 1 million 1. 5 million same coverage I had from AXA but now the premium was going to be as you noted 65,000 baht a year but also a catch take a full physical 8000 baht at a private hospital like Bangkok / Pattaya have the dinner fill out the form if everything is okay They will cover you. The only want people who pose no risk to their bottom line now if you are conditions they will still gladly accept you for the same price but it isn't covered. The line policy really jumps one you get into 65-70 range do to complaints the last year they put in place deductibles the more you take the less the policy becomes example: If you are something like 70 years of age if you take a 25,000 deductible your policy drops like 25%.

As noted when I did talk to the agent she told me they will carry you to 90 plus but when you do the mat how the prices goes up based on your age if you do make it to 90 what is your policy premium going to be 130-200,000? From my own experience I simple don't trust any of these companies you don't have the consumer rights you have in the USA For example. Ten years ago, I had a policy for my wife two years when she came down with cancer they decline the coverage making up some lie. Reason that the problem runs in her family and that she knew about it. I had to really contain myself and not load up on a full metal jacket. Ten years I was buying insurance from various companies never once have I had to use it two years ago I finally had enough of these guys and decided to ship a million baht over to cover my medical expenses.

I have first hand incidents from private hospital like Bangkok Pattaya, my brother was paying cash up front to this place never had a problem they knew his insurance in the U.S. was making coverage back to him, had him in the computer "VIP" his wife has a C-section cost 80-100,000 when a local Thai was paying 45,000, one of his kids needed an simple surgery just as they were going to roll her in they sent a representative to stop her to surgery and ask for a deposit of 100,000 baht, if I didn't restrain him not sure where this guy would still be alive. A good friend visiting had insurance back home got sick here they actually set up a direct billing he was diagnoised he needed a new pace maker he was taken care of VIP style for a week waiting for some response from U.S. as to whether they will pay for the pacemaker the hospital wanted 2 million baht, a week later still nothing we contacted the insurance back home find out no one has even made a request they were milking the stay at 15-20 baht a day some of it in ICU, saying he wasn't fit to travel back hom once we got the word back the insurance wouldn't pay for the surgery the price dropped to 800,000 baht. Once we started to dispute of the cost all of a sudden he was healthy enough to travel he went home back at Stanford it wasn't his Pace Maker but his kidney found out a 1st year med student could have made the right call. Instruction from family was to stop payment to Bangkok Pattaya.

Medicare? Because I first applied for Medicare since I was living here I decided for my area in California to get on a HMO, for all my supplement needs so far so good at zero monthly cost, whenever I know I'm coming into town I contact my Doctor get all my schedule test while in town it will even cover in Thailand but it is consider out of network which is 50% of the schedule cost if you do use it you will need to just say you were on vacation and shit happens. From my experience if you are putting in constant claims in Thailand it will sooner or later raise a red flag that you are staying there 6 months or longer.

As for private they are clean that is the impression but once they see you are a farang have insurance that is when they will milk you to no end, test this test, stay extra night, get more attention if you stay ICU, every Doctor on the staff will come see you that is 600 baht extra for them. When I came to Thailand use Bumrungrad it was world known not expensive but today it is nothing more than business the vision is if it is clean and nice therefore it equats to be the best.

[Tomasb]

I have United Health care Plan G also. I pay $135 per month at age 71 and it provides 80% coverage overseas with a $250 deductible. The premium price is dependent on your address and the cost of living index in the state where you live. My home state has 4 regions and I picked the least expensive region and organized a post office box and used a friend's home address in that region so I could be billed at the least expensive rate of the four regions. In my actual region, the monthly cost would have been $175 so a decent savings by doing this.

I had to stay one night (or 12 hours) at Bumrangrad Hospital this winter due to a sudden illness. It's actually quite expensive and though I still felt sick when I left, I decided to check out because of the cost. I arrived in ER around 6 am and left at 6 pm. If I stayed longer than that I would have received a higher bill. A doctor visited me twice while in semi private room, which is the norm and is part of the room cost. I also had to see a GI specialist a few times, which was also covered, and took an expensive $300 test to look for rare tropical disease infections. These were also covered by the plan.

But I was reimbursed for most of my charges by United as specified in the coverage parameters. Just remember to keep your receipts and also your travel itinerary. I think you are covered for 90 days while overseas traveling from date of arrival so that is why they want your airline travel itinerary. Since I arrived on Dec 25 and was in the hospital by Jan 3rd, I was well within their time requirements. The bill also has to be submitted within a certain (Considerable) period of time though I can't remember how much time you are allowed. Of course, drug coverages outside the hospital visit is out of pocket.

The monthly fee is largely based on where you live and your age. I pay $168/ mo at age 69 in California. Plan G is usually the way to go vs. Plan F. As mentioned Plan F is being phased out by many companies. I appreciate hearing how the supplement helps when in Thailand. My Plan G has the emergency medical benefit but I like hearing how it actually works.

Another question: Do you guys buy travel insurance when you go to Bangkok? Is Bumrumgrad Hospital as costly as US hospitals?

[Allover]

It sounds like you selected Plan F, which I also bought through United Health Care. Your $135 per month is much lower than mine, which may be attributed to where you live. Regardless, people can renew Plan F, but it will no longer be available to new subscribers. There may be other plans that offer overseas coverage.

The monthly fee is largely based on where you live and your age. I pay $168/ mo at age 69 in California. Plan G is usually the way to go vs. Plan F. As mentioned Plan F is being phased out by many companies. I appreciate hearing how the supplement helps when in Thailand. My Plan G has the emergency medical benefit but I like hearing how it actually works.

Another question: Do you guys buy travel insurance when you go to Bangkok? Is Bumrumgrad Hospital as costly as US hospitals?

[Beijing4987]

My local insurance company that sells me the Medicare supplement helped me get reimbursed for treatment in China, minus a deductible. I was told the Medicare supplement has a $50,000 lifetime cap. I buy additional insurance by the day, priced according to deductable and total payout. A typical 60 day visit with $ 1,000,000 coverage costs $300.

[HorseTrader]

As far as health insurance, I have medicare, which, of course, is useless overseas but covers 80% of health care costs in the US. However, I also have a supplemental policy, which covers the remaining 20% in the US and costs me about $135 US a month. I also discovered that my particular supplemental policy with United Health care has a program that covers 80% of health care and hospitalization costs overseas with a $250 deductible. I know this works because I was hospitalized for a brief illness at a well known hospital in Bangkok this winter for a one night stay. And as someone else commented, if you want top care, it will cost you more than you might expect in some parts of Thailand. However, my supplemental policy did step up and pay these costs just remember to keep your receipts, air ticket itinerary, etc.

It sounds like you selected Plan F, which I also bought through United Health Care. Your $135 per month is much lower than mine, which may be attributed to where you live. Regardless, people can renew Plan F, but it will no longer be available to new subscribers. There may be other plans that offer overseas coverage.

I also had some Thai medical expenses in 2017. The policy required me to pay the Thailand hospital and later I was to be reimbursed. Due to improper language on my hospital receipts, getting the reimbursement from United Health Care turned into a pain in the ass. After 2 attempts at getting the proper documentation from the Thai hospital to United Health Care, I just gave up. In my case the reimbursement would have only been about $100 and it wasn't worth further effort on my part. Had it been more money, I would have pushed further and probably have gotten some reimbursement.

[Tomasb]

Yes, I agree with your numbers for monthly living expenses in Bangkok. The amount of 55 k bt per month is a reasonable amount per my estimation as well. My housing is a bit more than yours as I find a studio too confining and opt for one bedrooms, which costs more like 25 bt - 30 k bt with air, cable and other amenities.

I usually aim to break even on my winter stays in Bangkok. I rent out my home in the US through Air BNB, or other short term rental services, and net out about $500 US after my mortgage, my social Sec is about $1,500 per month, and I have a modest pension of $1,400. The latter amount is my mongering Budget though rarely reach that amount. If I was younger, I would probably exceed it for what it's worth.

As far as health insurance, I have medicare, which, of course, is useless overseas but covers 80% of health care costs in the US. However, I also have a supplemental policy, which covers the remaining 20% in the US and costs me about $135 US a month. I also discovered that my particular supplemental policy with United Health care has a program that covers 80% of health care and hospitalization costs overseas with a $250 deductible. I know this works because I was hospitalized for a brief illness at a well known hospital in Bangkok this winter for a one night stay. And as someone else commented, if you want top care, it will cost you more than you might expect in some parts of Thailand. However, my supplemental policy did step up and pay these costs — just remember to keep your receipts, air ticket itinerary, etc.

[Sunlover2]

Also adverse currency fluctuations can be lethal. Figure any currency can rise or fall 25% to 30% against the Baht in a 10 year time span.

Excellent point and an important planning consideration. I have read that many British ex-pats qualified for a retirement visa on a fixed pension income, and when the GBP-THB exchange rate significantly moved against them their income no longer met the qualifications. That is cutting it way too close on multiple levels.

What I would do to address that possibility is to deposit the 800 k THB in a Thai bank account and be done with it. Think of it as a security deposit (which it really is) for living long term in Thailand.

Then I would keep 6-12 months of living expenses in THB in a liquid form (locking in today's rates) and replenish it by the amount spent each month in order to dollar cost average into the future exchange rates movements. That would help mitigate the short to medium term currency risk.

SL.

[Banana Boi]

My thoughts are if you have enough cash to retire then do it sooner than later. Why wait? I have seen far too many people work until 60+ and by the time they decide to retire they aren't healthy enough to enjoy many things. All the money in the world but no use for it.

Medical and insurance costs, dollar value, inflation, costs of girls, etc are real. Look at the rise of the baht in recent years pre-COVID. It's risen 20% in 5 years against some currencies.

Natty, will take you more than a couple of years living in Thailand to decrease the number of girls you see. Sure you may not do a girl every single night but you may have days where you hit a G club, Soi 6, gogo, and disco and find 4 different girls. You are correct that you may find the same girls and bars repetitive but that's when you hop on a cheap Air Asia flight to many other options a few hours away. The main difference between tourists and expats is that things come for free for expats way more often than you may think. I personally try not to take advantage of this but I know guys who solely seek freebies. I don't respect that but that's just my opinion. Barfines are also a thing of the past as an expat if you want. See girls on their days off, after work, etc.

[EihTooms]

I unexpectly retired at 55 for a number of reasons. I expected to work until 60 no one told me directly but by 50 I was debt free. Personally I know only Pattaya I don't have a clue what you can get in Bangkok in terms of accommodations. I'm not telling anyone what they need or to give up but I do understand that everyone is different and have a certain life style. I can live in a small box as long as it is clean and have the convienances so 25,000 plus expense stand out to me.

Example I had a friend who visited started to visit Thailand particular Bangkok twenty years ago regularly one day he said he is retiring and moving to Thailand (Bangkok) the kind of guy stubborn think he knows everything got a sizable pension he purchased a condo off Ekamai 2. 5 million baht. Kind of guy that can't let his old possession go so he brought everything lived a life like he was rich and famous although Chinese American he ate mostly Western food after a year he started to get bored his entired mongering life styled changed then the fighting started in Bangkok with Red and Yellow he got locked down and said fuck it. Drove himself crazy said everything he purchased here in Thailand furniture etc had to be brought back to the USA I thinking to myself " are you crazy " that being said if you aren't a pack rat need to have all your own furniture I think even in Bangkok as for accommodation you can get by spending much less?

One of the things I've learn if you are retiring that is often missed is health insurance and if you are retiring and they are offering consider yourself very lucky! Living in Bangkok you have so many options private even public far better than what is offer in Pattaya. I retired knowing full well I wasn't getting any whether I continue to work or not. I've had insurance my whole life now I was going without it I took it for granted things here in Thailand would be the same medically and I had a rude wakeup as to what it cost and how much the coverage. I know a lot of expat retired here have great insurance back home don't even bother to take advantage of it or even take care of themselves with a checkups they live for today and forget about tomorrow. Insurance is pretty much impossible to get here after the age of 60 years if you are willing to pay expect in the range of 60-120,000 baht a year if you can get it if not start to put money away for a rainy day. People think they can go on forever but even if you are fucking 3 times a day everyday no matter how much you take care of yourself or juice yourself up we all are one tick away from disaster!

I know many think once they are on Medicare if sick they will fiy home but what happens if you can't that is the big question many expat think about here that I know. I go with the principal just because you are retired don't mean you don't continue to save or invest for tomorrow things change?

I have lived in 4 different apartments in popular tourist/expat areas of Bangkok over the past 7-8 years requiring an apartment search each time. My most recent move was during normal times about a year ago. I would say a clean, small box type place you referred to, what we called a studio apartment in the USA, very livable, nothing fancy, mostly furnished, in a safe, clean, well managed building with a kitchen, pool, fitness center and located easy walking distance from the red light bars and shops on lower Sukhumvit can be had for 15,000 baht per month, give or take 2,000 baht on either side of that.

I am talking about during normal times.

Add a generous average monthly electric bill with air conditioning in the 2,000 baht range, another couple of thousand baht per month to cover phone charges, internet, soap, deodorant, shampoo, detergent, etc, public transportation minus taxi runs, even annual retirement visa renewal costs.

I am 67, non smoker, no alarming pre existing conditions, generally good health and my monthly premium for 1,000,000 baht hospital in-patient and out-patient health insurance coverage is about 5800 baht. But that coverage exceeds the minimum required amount for my retirement visa. If I reduced it to the minimum required amount my premium would probably be about 4500 baht per month. Pacific Cross, the insurance provider company, states in writing that I can renew my coverage until age 95, after which they will renew on a case by case basis. Future premium costs are unknown to me.

I feel you can treat yourself to a normal amount of western menu food and drink comfortably for 1,000 baht per day on average. But that is western style food and normal drinking only for yourself. If you are picking up the tab for others or lifting a glass or bottle every 30 minutes throughout the day and into the evening it is going to be a lot more than 1,000 baht per day. Cooking breakfast or a quick lunch for yourself in your apartment, eating local Thai fare and so on can reduce the costs considerably.

So, before expenses for pussy and factoring in only comfortable but not lavish or upscale impressive living conditions for yourself, my calculations tell me 55,000 baht per month covers just about everything you need. Barring the unexpected health issue or sudden need to purchase the latest iPhone or 85" flatscreen tv.

Now, assuming your income stream is the minimum required 65,000 baht per month for an O-A Non Immigrant long stay retirement visa, that gives you 10,000 baht per month left over to cover the cost of 10 Short Times with 10 Sukhumvit/Soi 4 street girls or 4 Short Times with 4 Thermae girls or 2 Short Times with 2 go-go girls plus LDs, etc before you'll need to tap into additional income for your fun and pleasure.

[LittleBigMan]

I unexpectly retired at 55 for a number of reasons. I expected to work until 60 no one told me directly but by 50 I was debt free. Personally I know only Pattaya I don't have a clue what you can get in Bangkok in terms of accommodations. I'm not telling anyone what they need or to give up but I do understand that everyone is different and have a certain life style. I can live in a small box as long as it is clean and have the convienances so 25,000 plus expense stand out to me.

Example I had a friend who visited started to visit Thailand particular Bangkok twenty years ago regularly one day he said he is retiring and moving to Thailand (Bangkok) the kind of guy stubborn think he knows everything got a sizable pension he purchased a condo off Ekamai 2. 5 million baht. Kind of guy that can't let his old possession go so he brought everything lived a life like he was rich and famous although Chinese American he ate mostly Western food after a year he started to get bored his entired mongering life styled changed then the fighting started in Bangkok with Red and Yellow he got locked down and said fuck it. Drove himself crazy said everything he purchased here in Thailand furniture etc had to be brought back to the USA I thinking to myself " are you crazy " that being said if you aren't a pack rat need to have all your own furniture I think even in Bangkok as for accommodation you can get by spending much less?

One of the things I've learn if you are retiring that is often missed is health insurance and if you are retiring and they are offering consider yourself very lucky! Living in Bangkok you have so many options private even public far better than what is offer in Pattaya. I retired knowing full well I wasn't getting any whether I continue to work or not. I've had insurance my whole life now I was going without it I took it for granted things here in Thailand would be the same medically and I had a rude wakeup as to what it cost and how much the coverage. I know a lot of expat retired here have great insurance back home don't even bother to take advantage of it or even take care of themselves with a checkups they live for today and forget about tomorrow. Insurance is pretty much impossible to get here after the age of 60 years if you are willing to pay expect in the range of 60-120,000 baht a year if you can get it if not start to put money away for a rainy day. People think they can go on forever but even if you are fucking 3 times a day everyday no matter how much you take care of yourself or juice yourself up we all are one tick away from disaster!

I know many think once they are on Medicare if sick they will fiy home but what happens if you can't that is the big question many expat think about here that I know. I go with the principal just because you are retired don't mean you don't continue to save or invest for tomorrow things change?

[Franciscass]

Biggest variable if you retire here are health costs.

Never need hospitalization, die suddenly at 90 preferably from trying for that second pop with the 20 year and you can live well on 100 k a month. I know a number of heads in Pattaya who actually manage on their social security checks.

Get sick, need procedures, days possibly weeks in hospital and lengthy follow up therapy without insurance you can quickly have 6 and 7 figure balances on your MasterCard.

Key is having insurance where as we know premiums are dependent on age, coverage, deductibles and the small matter of whether you have preexisting conditions.

Not at all cheap if in your seventies. Hospital costs have gone up more than most other items I'm aware of during my 20 plus years here. In contrast occupancy costs not if buying but if renting have moved very little. Increases in food, depends where you eat, you can still enjoy a plate in Villa for less than a 100 baht, Increases in entertainment, go go's yes but oilies little changed, still about 2 k for an hour.

Changes in exchange rates can be significant, the '97 crash sent the $ to 50 from 25, now back to 31. Sterling from over 80 post crisis to 40 now. Going forward the trend would suggest a strengthening of all Asian currencies I. E. Less baht for your home currency. Lots of chatter around a weakening dollar.

Ok so WTF am I saying. In my opinion Thailand is the best country in the world to retire in, the people the food and the girls, just don't get sick unless you are covered by insurance or have your own resources.

[Member #4698]

"Perpetude?" Is that anything like pulchritude? Cause I know Natty loves his pulchritude.

You know it. I love pulchritude in perpetude. Endless beauty.

[Bunky]

Even Superman cannot do 11 girls / week in perpetude and not get tired of it.

"Perpetude?" Is that anything like pulchritude? Cause I know Natty loves his pulchritude.