American Politics

[EihTooms]

That's a very overly simple claim to say republicans have been responsible for all if even the most number of economic downturns. Most of economic situations during a sitting president's tenure are the result of the previous administration or optimism for the next administration.

While Trump took credit for the "economic boom" during his presidency, was it due to his policies? Mostly No, he merely took credit for the decent work of the Obama policies. They weren't perfect, but even a conservative policy leaner such as myself can admit that Obama generally did a fine job supporting the industries that were essential for American prosperity.

The stock market went bonkers during the last 3 months of the Trump presidency. I personally saw a 60% jump in my portfolio. Did Trump do anything that led to that? I think not. In fact, the crazy rally correlated with optimism for a future Biden administration.

Look at the 2008 economic downturn. What was the main reason for that recession? Deregulation of banking policies that led to irresponsible lending of mortgages. What policy allowed for that? The "repeal" of the Glass-Steagall Act that eventually led to commercial banks being allowed to dip into investment banking and insurance. Which president allowed for that to happen? Bill Clinton in 1999.

Reagan's superfluous spending and warmongering in key oil regions led to the early 90's recessions.

What caused the early 80's double dip recession? The ridiculously high inflation caused during the Carter administration.

The cycle goes on and on as you trace back economic trends throughout the 20th century.

But here's the reality, most of the 20th century economic crises were due to either world events that caused oil price shocks and various policies by the Federal Reserve, an institution more or less independent of the sitting President.

Point is, blaming or crediting political parties for economic success and failures for events during their tenure is both rudimentary and inaccurate.

Yes, I already observed those events in real time and further research on them is quite easy.

It is simplistic and inaccurate to say repealing Glass-Steagall in November 1999 allowed banks to do something Citi-Corp had been doing since 1992 due to enough loopholes in Glass-Steagall that allowed them to do it. Which was why Glass-Steagall was repealed and replaced with Gramm-Leach-Bliley, which did NOT give any banks or lending institutions permission to write bogus mortgage loans. That would have been the job of George W. Bush's Office of Thrift Supervision to supervise, monitor and prevent.

But, surprise surprise, the typically anti-regulation Republican administration had no interest in doing their job of supervising to enforce the regulations of mortgage lending. A thousand Glass-Steagalls in place would not have prevented a financial collapse if an administration's Treasury Department has no interest or motivation from the top to enforce the regulations in them. Particularly when an uptic in homeownership was about the only economic plus the Bush administration could crow about even if it was held together by spit and chewing gum.

Moreover, the repeal of Glass-Steagall was promoted (Republican Senator Gramm spearheaded the replacement Act) and approved by an overwhelming veto-proof Republican Majority controlled Senate (something like 95% passed it in the Senate) under a very lame duck then President Clinton at the end of 1999. No way could he have prevented it from being repealed and replaced.

The "ridiculously high inflation" under Carter was fed by wage inflation caused by too many jobs being created for too few applicants to fill them. We should only be so lucky to someday have such a terrible economic problem under Repub stewardship. It also happens to be one of the easiest economic "problems" to solve as long as you have a President with the nerve to appoint a Fed Chaiman to do what is necessary yet politically deadly to solve it; raise Fed Funds Rates/Interest Rates, raise the cost of borrowing money and cool down an overheated economy.

Being told bluntly by Volker what he would do to tame inflation was the reason Carter appointed him despite his knowing it could be political suicide. It was the right thing to do for the U.S. economy. So the Fed decisions are not as independent of the president who appoints him or her as some might think.

Which is exactly what Carter's Fed Chaiman appointee Paul Volker did beginning in the last quarter of 1979. By the second quarter of 1980 the rate of inflation began to decline and continued to steadily decline almost month over month with only 2-3 mild exceptions here and there for the next 3 years. Of course, Reagan was only too happy to take credit for it in his "Morning in America" 2nd term campaign ads even though he had absolutely nothing to do with accomplishing it.

"double dip recession"? No such thing exists in nature or anywhere else in economic history. That was a concept invented by Reagan supporters who wanted somehow to blame Reagan's Great Recession of late 1981-1983 on Carter. Volker's move did indeed purposely induce a mini recession in the first half of 1980. It barely qualified as a recession by the classic definition of one. There was one quarter of GDP contraction (as intended) at about -7% followed by a second quarter of contraction at a fraction of 1%.

By the time Reagan was elected in November 1980 and inaugurated in January 1981, Carter's recovery from that mini, controlled recession was producing a +7.5% GDP Growth quarter followed by a +8.5% GDP Growth quarter, a steadily declining rate of inflation, a steadily declining unemployment rate from a one month high during that mini recession of 7.8% into the mid/low 7% range that continued well into 1981. Nothing close to recessionary conditions by any measure.

Then Reagan's policies began to hit the streets. Following one of the best average annual jobs creation presidencies of all time (Carter), Reagan's unemployment rate began to climb under his Recession that did not even begin until the last quarter of 1981 and then took the unemployment rate into 10%+ figures for a whopping 10 consecutive months stretching through his second and third year in office.

Again, I have researched and watched enough horrific Great Recessions and skyrocketing unemployment rates follow Repub favorite "pro growth, job creating, pro business" Supply-Side/Trickle-Down nonsense policies in an environment of repealed or unenforced regulations to know those two dots are the easiest to justifiably connect in any era.

[ShooBree]

In a two party system, this comment is laughable. But you, could simply exercise your RIGHT NOT TO VOTE.

Hey, vote liberal, vote for the Democrats, if you think it's the LESSER of TWO EVILS. You don't have to agree will all their politics. Geez!

A liberal wanting people to vote for the Dems or not vote at all. What a shocker!

[ShooBree]

So what? Your typically inane response has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your original statement that Democrats Encouraged BLM to riot and destroy things.

Show me evidence. Show me the same type of evidence against the Democrats that they are using against Trump.

I'll wait.

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question I asked you. Seems like you don't want to answer it since it would expose what a joke the Democratic Party truly is.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/08...is-supporters/

Also, many, many liberal politicians suggested that Trump was not a legitimate president and that Russia stole the election. That's nothing short of an encouragement of violence according to the very same people today.

[Beijing4987]

Please check out the many critiques of USA politics and "culture" by George Carlin who transformed himself into quite a seer.

He talks about how beautiful america was when the colonist invaders arrived and trashed it, creating a mini mall inside a mega mall, which suits many just fine. "We hold these truths self evident. ".

[Spidy]

So voting liberal is the solution? Geez.

In a two party system, this comment is laughable. But you, could simply exercise your RIGHT NOT TO VOTE.

Hey, vote liberal, vote for the Democrats, if you think it's the LESSER of TWO EVILS. You don't have to agree will all their politics. Geez!

[Mursenary]

If the republicans didn't use dog whistles, such as transgender bathrooms, socialism, etc, etc, they wouldn't get elected. It's the only way they can get enough people to vote against their own best interest.

Likewise if Democrats didn't pander so much to identity politics themselves, they wouldn't alienate the cultural majority who see themselves as having the most to lose. Democrats would easily and consistently win the majority of federal offices for the next 2 decades if they would just put down the emotional politics themselves and just govern with sound policy. US Government does too much social engineering, at least with respect to the marketing of their platforms.

If the Bernie / AOC wing itself would say a couple positive things about capitalist policies, you know the economic system that led to the wealthiest society in history, perhaps they wouldn't scare off so many people who are actually benefiting from the current system.

More figures like John Kasich, Andrew Yang, or Tulsi Gabbard are much needed right now. I would even take a Mitt Romney / Paul Ryan ticket circa 2012 in 2024. Joe can't possibly serve 2 terms and to hell with Kamala Harris.

[Mursenary]

Please reconsider. The former president did a lot of wrong that day and before. He encouraged police violence. Roughing up detainees. "Proud boys stand back and stand by". Do you really think those messenges are not received? Bill Clinton was harrassed. Special prosecutor. Became a sex drive case. Obama was harrassed. They kept their discipline. But that can never justify what Trump said and what resulted directly from his actions. It is quite unique in the 2. 5 centuries the US exists. No congressperson is in Antifa. No congressperson is for BLM violence. Of course those groups had an effect. Stop grouping like "the liberals". A lot of bad comes from the violent left. But that does not justify by any means what the former president did. And he will pay dearly for it. And you should move on an identify a Republican whose views you share and who does not carry that awful awful baggage.

I like your views. It's sad that when someone like yourself is able stick to your beliefs but able to objectively see the positive characteristics of the other side, only to be criticized because you didn't buy in and drink the entirely gallon of orange Kool Aid. If only the general public, those who identify as liberal and also those identifying as conservative, can objectively parse the pro's and cons of their own ideologies. You would think that a sex mongering forum would have more people who can think and act outside of their pack mentalities.

[Mursenary]

So voting liberal is the solution? Geez.

It's not ideal but sometimes the choice is the lesser of 2 evils. While I generally support conservative policies, logistics matter and the Trump administration did a poor job of execution and follow through. Most of his best policies were ones any Republican president would have supported. But good ideas are worthless with poor execution.

On the flip, his worst policies are really, really bad and at best, short sighted (fossil fuels over renewable energy). He's too impulsive and only sees what's immediately in front of him, incapable of controlling primal instincts to strategically think 2 steps ahead. His international policies alienated every major powerful ally and one more term would have guaranteed that America would be left on an island with only 2nd rate economic allies that just relied on American exploitation of weak nations. Look at the band of misfit nations that remained allied with us. Turkey? Brasil? A bunch of South American nations? We only retained them because they had few other options. Meanwhile, China controls the Pacific, owns African infrastructure, and are diligently making headway in our own backyard propping up failing South American nations.

It's not 1960 anymore where America was the sole capitalist superpower. America now needs the world more than the world needs America. Europe knows this and is working to free themselves of American influence directly due to Trump's erratic and predictably unpredictable policies.

Don't let the disgusting odor of liberal identity politics cloud your judgement. A thriving America geared towards growth needs a healthy blend of self reliance, making use of our own natural resources, and free market innovation while strategically deploying social / socialist policies and embracing some the the inevitable trend towards globalism. We can't just isolate ourselves and exploit weaker nations. We have to play the game or else see our rivals unite and leave us behind.

Can't win the game if you don't play the game.

[Mursenary]

I support and vote for Dems and never for Repubs because Repub policies, legislation and stewardship have plunged the USA Into every major economic downturn, massive job losses, Crash, Depression and Great Recession of the past 100 years, including the current one, and taken us into none of great recoveries, economic expansions and historic job gains.

By stark contrast, Dem policies, legislation and stewardship have lead the USA Into the exact opposite of the above disastrous, typical Repub results for the past 100 years.

This is no wild coincidence, bizarre anti-Repub economic "cycle", bad luck for Repubs or witch's curse. It is what Repub pols do for a living. It is the only thing they can do. It is the only thing they want to do. And they will always identify and embrace a new and unprecedented way of accomplishing it whenever the American electorate is foolish and careless enough to give them the opportunity.

The Social Issues they exploit to get you riled up about (transgender toilets?) is just a means to sucker you into supporting and voting for their horrific economic outcomes over and over again in blitheringly dutiful service to combating "evil libs" when no sane, clear thinking person would otherwise.

That's a very overly simple claim to say republicans have been responsible for all if even the most number of economic downturns. Most of economic situations during a sitting president's tenure are the result of the previous administration or optimism for the next administration.

While Trump took credit for the "economic boom" during his presidency, was it due to his policies? Mostly No, he merely took credit for the decent work of the Obama policies. They weren't perfect, but even a conservative policy leaner such as myself can admit that Obama generally did a fine job supporting the industries that were essential for American prosperity.

The stock market went bonkers during the last 3 months of the Trump presidency. I personally saw a 60% jump in my portfolio. Did Trump do anything that led to that? I think not. In fact, the crazy rally correlated with optimism for a future Biden administration.

Look at the 2008 economic downturn. What was the main reason for that recession? Deregulation of banking policies that led to irresponsible lending of mortgages. What policy allowed for that? The "repeal" of the Glass-Steagall Act that eventually led to commercial banks being allowed to dip into investment banking and insurance. Which president allowed for that to happen? Bill Clinton in 1999.

Reagan's superfluous spending and warmongering in key oil regions led to the early 90's recessions.

What caused the early 80's double dip recession? The ridiculously high inflation caused during the Carter administration.

The cycle goes on and on as you trace back economic trends throughout the 20th century.

But here's the reality, most of the 20th century economic crises were due to either world events that caused oil price shocks and various policies by the Federal Reserve, an institution more or less independent of the sitting President.

Point is, blaming or crediting political parties for economic success and failures for events during their tenure is both rudimentary and inaccurate.

[PVMonger]

I understand that you as a leftist wants to ignore the obvious. The liberal politicians are egging them on by repeating their narrative. Just look at the Democrats; Camel Harris basically accused Biden of being a racist and AOC did the same against the lizard woman in the senate.

Please tell me, is the Democratic Party:

A. Full of racists.

Or.

B. Social justice warriors playing the race card against their own colleagues?

So what? Your typically inane response has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your original statement that Democrats Encouraged BLM to riot and destroy things.

Show me evidence. Show me the same type of evidence against the Democrats that they are using against Trump.

I'll wait.

[ShooBree]

If the republicans didn't use dog whistles, such as transgender bathrooms, socialism, etc, etc, they wouldn't get elected. It's the only way they can get enough people to vote against their own best interest.

Haha, here you are with your tinfoil hat, it's almost as you never heard of COVID-19. But sure, let's blame the republicans for the coronavirus.

I'm sure that the Republicans are aware that they have nothing to gain from more immigration and affirmative action.

[Detwing1]

I support and vote for Dems and never for Repubs because Repub policies, legislation and stewardship have plunged the USA Into every major economic downturn, massive job losses, Crash, Depression and Great Recession of the past 100 years, including the current one, and taken us into none of great recoveries, economic expansions and historic job gains.

By stark contrast, Dem policies, legislation and stewardship have lead the USA Into the exact opposite of the above disastrous, typical Repub results for the past 100 years.

This is no wild coincidence, bizarre anti-Repub economic "cycle", bad luck for Repubs or witch's curse. It is what Repub pols do for a living. It is the only thing they can do. It is the only thing they want to do. And they will always identify and embrace a new and unprecedented way of accomplishing it whenever the American electorate is foolish and careless enough to give them the opportunity.

The Social Issues they exploit to get you riled up about (transgender toilets?) is just a means to sucker you into supporting and voting for their horrific economic outcomes over and over again in blitheringly dutiful service to combating "evil libs" when no sane, clear thinking person would otherwise.

If the republicans didn't use dog whistles, such as transgender bathrooms, socialism, etc, etc, they wouldn't get elected. It's the only way they can get enough people to vote against their own best interest.

[EihTooms]

What is really obvious is you only condone violence from the right. Biden is doing nothing to stop the left BLM and Antifa from destroying property, looting and physical violence. Does this mean Biden should be impeached because he is allowing it? Are you liberals proud of yourself for your beliefs that defunding the police, open borders, abolish ice, transgender men or women in children bathrooms. Is this really the values of Americans who care for their country? Who care to keep children safe? Do you really believe that we should allow millions of people to come into our country and take jobs away from our citizens? Our kids? Our friends? Why do you hate the American way of life? Do you really think your parents would be proud of your thinking? Do you really believe that your parents and grandparents were all racist and their history should be abolished? Why are you still living in such a horrible country that needs all these changes. Do you really believe that this will make America better? If you are proud of this it pretty much sums up who you are.

I support and vote for Dems and never for Repubs because Repub policies, legislation and stewardship have plunged the USA Into every major economic downturn, massive job losses, Crash, Depression and Great Recession of the past 100 years, including the current one, and taken us into none of great recoveries, economic expansions and historic job gains.

By stark contrast, Dem policies, legislation and stewardship have lead the USA Into the exact opposite of the above disastrous, typical Repub results for the past 100 years.

This is no wild coincidence, bizarre anti-Repub economic "cycle", bad luck for Repubs or witch's curse. It is what Repub pols do for a living. It is the only thing they can do. It is the only thing they want to do. And they will always identify and embrace a new and unprecedented way of accomplishing it whenever the American electorate is foolish and careless enough to give them the opportunity.

The Social Issues they exploit to get you riled up about (transgender toilets?) is just a means to sucker you into supporting and voting for their horrific economic outcomes over and over again in blitheringly dutiful service to combating "evil libs" when no sane, clear thinking person would otherwise.

[GDreams]

You views clearly are not grounded in objectivity. You can dislike trump while acknowledging that his policies had a positive impact.

Exactly what policies had a positive impact?

His great gains in unemployment were at the cost of adding $500 b to the annual deficit. Even then he only achieved one year of +3% GDP growth. The rest of the time it has been low 2's or less which Trump said of Obama achieving similar the Obama was a failure even though he shronk the deficit by 600 b a year rather than expand it. So by Trumps own criteria he failed.

Current account deficit grew significantly under Trump because of his nonsense trade wars. Fail.

Environmental policy. Fail.

Health policy. Fail.

Foreign policy. Fail.

Domestic policy. Fail. People are more partisan and divided than ever.

Immigration. I would call it a fail but others would disagree. The reality is the border wall he wanted he could of had but would not accept DACA so instead most construction has gone on replacing existing barriers. Pretty much a waste of time anyway as most illegals are visa overstays and smuggling is done through the border crossings. Much of the rest is debatable. It is more about the processes employed than the outcomes.

As Trump was incapable of working with democrats most of what he did was by executive orders. Most of these will be over-ridden by Biden in the next month.

So basically 4 years of manbaby tantrums to achieve no lasting benefit.

[ScatManDoo]

So voting liberal is the solution?

Always has been Gene.

Don't let Trump steal your future votes.