Kyiv

[Sorbonne]

Corruption and scams are absolutely rampant in Ukraine. Everywhere from the lowest in society up the the richest and most powerful.

This is another thing I don't understand. I have lived in a city with population less than 500,000 in Ukraine for cumulatively over a year and thought that the Ukrainian people are so nice and nicer than people in 4 countries where I have lived more than 2 years each (mostly in advanced countries). Who and where are these corrupted people in Ukraine?

I have never experienced corruption in this city, and my neighbors, including girls, were very friendly, even though I hardly speak Russian or Ukrainian.

[Sorbonne]

Have you ever looked at the official corona statistics in Ukraine? There are fewer sick people than in the rest of Europe. For Ukraine, every country is on the red list that has more diseases than Ukraine. So almost all of Europe is red.

Officially, the crisis is therefore almost over. What the reality looks like is of course a different matter. I already know a lot of girls who were sick with Corona. Everyone continued to work during the illness. They needed the money.

Of course, Ukraine has a vaccination schedule. We even buy vaccine. But in India. Where it's cheap. The vaccinations should start this month.

Otherwise, there will probably be exactly the same solution for vaccination cards as for many corona tests. You buy the result. You can already buy a package tour from a travel agency today. Negative Covid test included.

Well, some EU countries are still in Green, including the country where I am.

I also believe in Pfizer and Moderna vaccines only, so if AstraZeneca vaccine comes around, I'm not sure what to do.

[Misterxxx]

This kind of behavior, in which clubs operates under the raider, makes me be wary and weary of Ukraine. This contributes to prolong the pandemic and push back the economic recovery.
In this regard I think Dramafree is correct to not like Ukraine.
Does Ukraine have any vaccination plan at all at this point? That is the only way out of this crisis. It sounds like Ukraine has long way to recover, which should make Yummy PL happy, LOL.

Have you ever looked at the official corona statistics in Ukraine? There are fewer sick people than in the rest of Europe. For Ukraine, every country is on the red list that has more diseases than Ukraine. So almost all of Europe is red.

Officially, the crisis is therefore almost over. What the reality looks like is of course a different matter. I already know a lot of girls who were sick with Corona. Everyone continued to work during the illness. They needed the money.

Of course, Ukraine has a vaccination schedule. We even buy vaccine. But in India. Where it's cheap. The vaccinations should start this month.

Otherwise, there will probably be exactly the same solution for vaccination cards as for many corona tests. You buy the result. You can already buy a package tour from a travel agency today. Negative Covid test included.

[YummyPL]

In this regard I think Dramafree is correct to not like Ukraine.

Corruption and scams are absolutely rampant in Ukraine. Everywhere from the lowest in society up the the richest and most powerful. But it is in this type of environment that the best P4P thrives. Once a society is cleaned up, P4P opportunities go away. Germany is a rare and mostly sterile exception, but even opportunities in Germany would not be good if there were not feeder countries where conditions are not good.

[YummyPL]

Have you had any cases where as soon as you refused to give them money upfront, they left?

It has not been a problem for me so far. In fact, I have the money in an obvious place, but all except a small few have not even mentioned the money at all. At the end I pick the money up off the table and if it is convenient I put it in their purse or pocket, or if necessary hand it to them. As far as I can remember, even of the few that asked for the money beforehand, I have only ever had one girl count the money. This is also a strong indication that most of my girls are independents.

[Sorbonne]

As I rode in previous messages, all places are open in clandestine way, they are closed from outside, but once you knock the door they open and you have party inside, I guess striclubs also.

This kind of behavior, in which clubs operates under the raider, makes me be wary and weary of Ukraine. This contributes to prolong the pandemic and push back the economic recovery.

In this regard I think Dramafree is correct to not like Ukraine.

Does Ukraine have any vaccination plan at all at this point? That is the only way out of this crisis. It sounds like Ukraine has long way to recover, which should make Yummy PL happy, LOL.

[Sorbonne]

Yes. That happens everywhere. But I have only given the girl the money beforehand maybe 3-4 times here. All the other girls I put the money on the table until the end. It cuts down somewhat on the personality changes. Of course I have had some poor service--especially kissing. But that has really been the exception and not the rule.

Have you had any cases where as soon as you refused to give them money upfront, they left?

I think once someone here, I think it was Liljoey, wrote that a girl snatched the money on the table in the middle of sex and left?

[Ringudor]

So I've read that the quarantine rules have been relaxed in the end of January, hence adaptive quarantine, orange alert level, yada yada. So they say that now bars and cafes are allowed to operate till 22:00, however, discos and entertainment places are still closed. I guess "entertainment / disco" also includes strip clubs? Does anyone currently on the ground know?).

As I rode in previous messages, all places are open in clandestine way, they are closed from outside, but once you knock the door they open and you have party inside, I guess striclubs also.

[YummyPL]

I shouldn't have said "I have wasted money on ugly girls," as I can turn down ugly girls without hesitation. But rather I have wasted money on those girls who switch personality as soon as they pocket the money, if you know what I mean.

Yes. That happens everywhere. But I have only given the girl the money beforehand maybe 3-4 times here. All the other girls I put the money on the table until the end. It cuts down somewhat on the personality changes. Of course I have had some poor service--especially kissing. But that has really been the exception and not the rule.

[RandomWalker]

So I've read that the quarantine rules have been relaxed in the end of January, hence adaptive quarantine, orange alert level, yada yada. So they say that now bars and cafes are allowed to operate till 22:00, however, discos and entertainment places are still closed. I guess "entertainment / disco" also includes strip clubs? Does anyone currently on the ground know?).

[Sorbonne]

I know your question wasn't for me, but I will make some comments.

I have certainly wasted money on girls that didn't meet my standards in the past. But I have enough time and a good enough supply of girls now that I don't hesitate to turn away girls that don't meet my standards. If they are the girl in the photo, but don't meet my standard, I give them taxi fare. If they are not the girl and are a bad bait and switch, I don't give them anything. There have been a couple of times the girls were far enough below my standard that I walked away without talking to them. But I am pretty good a spotting scams now so it rarely happens. I am up to about 40 different successful girls now, and have only turned away about 10. So 80% success rate for girls that show up to the meeting. But 80+% of online girls are crap before you even arrange a meeting, so it takes work to plow through them.

So the only thing I lose is my time. But I actually hate wasting my time. That is part of why I like to stick to my reliable girls.

I shouldn't have said "I have wasted money on ugly girls," as I can turn down ugly girls without hesitation. But rather I have wasted money on those girls who switch personality as soon as they pocket the money, if you know what I mean.

[YummyPL]

YummyPL,

It sounds like you have your system down to a science. Do you speak Ukrainian? Also, how did you find these girls. Were these through seeking??

I've been in a quandary as to whether to visit Ukraine or not. Some of my best sessions have been with Ukrainian girls so I'm curious about how things would go in their "homeland" LOL.

It may be an art, but it is far from being a science. My girls up through September were mostly on Seeking. Since then they are mostly Mamba. But a significant percentage of recent girls have been referrals.

Pretty much all Ukrainians speak Russian and I have a very basic knowledge of Russian. Not enough to win anyone's heart, but enough for necessary communication.

But Ukraine is difficult if you don't have time, have not been here before, and don't speak the language. I like the challenge almost as much as I like the girls. But it takes work to find good girls here.

If you want very young girls, I think it is a lot easier if you are under 40 or can pass for it. Unfortunately I am long past that now but I am very fit for my age. That said, I had two new and very respectable 18 year olds this week. Both of these girls could easily pull $300+ per hour in the USA and $180+ in Germany for their level of service and looks. I do significantly better than that.

[YummyPL]

I have certainly wasted some money on ugly girls in Kiev, but that is not so often and works as lesson to learn.

I know your question wasn't for me, but I will make some comments.

I have certainly wasted money on girls that didn't meet my standards in the past. But I have enough time and a good enough supply of girls now that I don't hesitate to turn away girls that don't meet my standards. If they are the girl in the photo, but don't meet my standard, I give them taxi fare. If they are not the girl and are a bad bait and switch, I don't give them anything. There have been a couple of times the girls were far enough below my standard that I walked away without talking to them. But I am pretty good a spotting scams now so it rarely happens. I am up to about 40 different successful girls now, and have only turned away about 10. So 80% success rate for girls that show up to the meeting. But 80+% of online girls are crap before you even arrange a meeting, so it takes work to plow through them.

So the only thing I lose is my time. But I actually hate wasting my time. That is part of why I like to stick to my reliable girls.

[Sorbonne]

Thanks for mentioning me. Yes, Kiev sucks for girls and scams. I did mention that it might actually be better now. I would never encourage anyone to go to Kiev just too many problems that you and others experience, That you and others conveniently choose to leave out of your reports.

I have no problem interacting with you and honoring you, LOL.

I'm not too sure about your past posts, but I do have to wonder if you have had some abysmal or traumatic experiences in Kiev? If you have already talked about it in this thread, I would be interested in pointers such as year and months so that I could look them up. If you haven't, it'll be for the good of everybody else here.

I myself have not had such bad experience in Kiev. The biggest problem I've had was back in 2010 when my 600 USD cell phone was stolen by gypsies on street, but this is not really related to girls or p4p. Besides, 600 USD was reimbursed to me by my travel insurance company. I have certainly wasted some money on ugly girls in Kiev, but that is not so often and works as lesson to learn.

The biggest problem related to girls / p4p I've ever encountered was in Romania in 2004, and I lost about 200 USD.

[LshRoomer]

I just have nothing really new to report. I'm seeing my sponsorette overnight 4-5 nights a week and seeing 4 regulars mixed in. This is exactly where I want to be.

2 of my regulars are referrals from other girls. So I guess the only thing I have learned fairly recently is, there is no harm in asking a girl if they have any friends. If you treat them well, there is no reason for them to not give you a referral especially if you are not going to see them again.

YummyPL,

It sounds like you have your system down to a science. Do you speak Ukrainian? Also, how did you find these girls. Were these through seeking??

I've been in a quandary as to whether to visit Ukraine or not. Some of my best sessions have been with Ukrainian girls so I'm curious about how things would go in their "homeland" LOL.