American Politics

[Paulie97]

But average black Americans are born into a toxic culture. My point is your judgement is toward a people whose youth often are not taught any better.

Believe me, I have some of the same thoughts. But you have to ask, how did black families change so much from the 50's and 60's? What happened since desegregation? What did black communities get worse and imprisonment go up? Did black Americans all of a sudden become lazy criminals?

Your confusion relates to the fact that you are operating with faulty information, and seemingly have only been accessing right wing talking points. It's also bigoted when you label a whole culture "toxic" because it is different than what you want to consider "mainstream. " This while placing the burden all on the shoulders of blacks to change when a historic, dominant culture has been repeatedly seen to manifest itself in institutions, and notably, police forces, IE. "systemic," a concept you wish to side step / delute while focusing only on black culture. Some whites in positions of authority need to change, and at the least meet the others halfway by way of dialogue. But here I am referring to an earlier post from you.

As to the 50's, well, that was a golden age for a lot of common folks with US manufacturing and strong unions. Many blacks benefitted from that. However tax rates during the era would make modern "conservatives" (whatever that is anymore) shit bricks.

But as to the current information, the situation for blacks has improved a lot since the 1960's, with far fewer living in poverty, lower unemployment rates, greater average family wealth, double the percentage of college graduates, and hugely greater representation in Congress and the Senate. In fact the vast majority do not live in poverty making the whole "toxic culture" line even less credible. Though there's toxity found in about all races and cultures. We found that out most clearly January 6th at the Capital. That's even though, according to internal reports, law enforcement wasn't much worried about those guys but instead had their eyes out for counter protesters. Funny how that one goes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52992795

[Beijing4987]

In 1997 the US Congress, with strong support (in bankruptcy proceedings) National Rifle Association, passed the "Dickey" amendment which barred the Center for Disease Control from studying firearm violence. The American Medical Association has deemed firearm violence a national health crisis. As comedian and commentator John Oliver noted, a very "Dickey" thing to do.

[Xpartan]

The fact is that the number of unarmed black men shot dead by police in America is around 10 a year.

I presume it won't be too hard telling us how you've come up with this fact?

[Mursenary]

I would disagree that Asians are born into better economic conditions. When you travel the world you will see Chinese people doing the exact same shit you have seen in America. I have seen this shit with my own eyes. Dominican Republic, Panama, Brazil. They go there without a pot to urinate in and can't even speak the language! They sell fruit on a corner or work at a restaurant meanwhile learning the language. Eventually they buy a little restaurant or small store. Their whole family sleeps in the back of said restaurant or store.

They send the kids to school to learn business or medicine and the kids speak the local languange and their native language perfectly. They end up owning a chain of stores or restaurants and the local Blacks resent them thinking somebody gave them something or they had some kind of upper hand. No. They just put their noses to the grindstone and didn't make any damn excuses about a system that was out to get them.

I was thinking of Asian Americans being born into better economic conditions. Actually even better than the average white American actually.

But yeah, Chinese entrepreneurship is a common romanticization with some truthful merit. Same with Nigerians coming over here and doing well, but I think you miss the point. In many ways, the immigrant experience is easier. They come over here as adults with a mission. Their kids have role models that shape their ethics and worldview.

But average black Americans are born into a toxic culture. My point is your judgement is toward a people whose youth often are not taught any better.

Believe me, I have some of the same thoughts. But you have to ask, how did black families change so much from the 50's and 60's? What happened since desegregation? What did black communities get worse and imprisonment go up? Did black Americans all of a sudden become lazy criminals?

[PVMonger]

I would disagree that Asians are born into better economic conditions. When you travel the world you will see Chinese people doing the exact same shit you have seen in America. I have seen this shit with my own eyes. Dominican Republic, Panama, Brazil. They go there without a pot to urinate in and can't even speak the language! They sell fruit on a corner or work at a restaurant meanwhile learning the language. Eventually they buy a little restaurant or small store. Their whole family sleeps in the back of said restaurant or store.

They send the kids to school to learn business or medicine and the kids speak the local languange and their native language perfectly. They end up owning a chain of stores or restaurants and the local Blacks resent them thinking somebody gave them something or they had some kind of upper hand. No. They just put their noses to the grindstone and didn't make any damn excuses about a system that was out to get them.

You are damn right it is cultural. Because a big arguement is that you do not hear these things from African immigrants who are some would say even Blacker than Black Americans. You see them on the news being offered scholarships from 10 different Ivy League schools. You see them as Beverly Hills plastic surgeons. American descendants of slaves are constantly told by their own people about how they are being held back by the system, that they end up perpetuating the lie and holding themselves back. You see those 4 million dollar houses that Black Lives Matter lady bought? Appears nobody is holding her back or out to kill her. Hmmm.

[b]Even when given things like stimulus checks or the PPP loans, they didn't use that money to better their situation. Jewelry purchases in the Black community went up and a lot of people falsified loans to become ballers. Meanwhile I used my shit and bought some Dogecoin turning that free money into 10 times what it was worth in a short period of time. Now it is time to go out and buy a new gold chain![/]

From the National Bureau of Economic Research: "The researchers discovered a number of interesting patterns. Larger households leaned toward spending most of the money. Seniors tended to pay down debt while younger and more educated households were more likely to save the payments. Those who were out of the labor force or who lived with parents were more likely to spend. African Americans were more likely to use most of their stimulus money to pay down debts, and Hispanics were more likely to spend."

[Chris P]

This was one case by a rogue police officer. Police officers are trained to react to the situation. In most cases blacks were shot for resisting arrest and had a weapon. An officer is trained to stop that criminal before he gets harmed or anyone else gets harmed. Where is your outrage when a black police officer shoots a white criminal who resists arrest? Where is your outrage for all the blacks killing blacks and killing black innocent children in all the democratic cities like Chicago. Don't those Black Lives Matter. Are the only Black lives that matter have to be criminals breaking the law and getting shot by white police. Is that what you are saying.

That is exactly what they and their fake news are saying. The fact is that the number of unarmed black men shot dead by police in America is around 10 a year. In a country of 330 million. Of those ten or so, several were shot by non-white cops, and others were charging the cop and trying to grab his gun (as in the Michael Brown shooting). The actual number of unarmed black men complying with instructions who are killed by white police is so low it is frankly probably zero. And yet we are told it is some kind of epidemic, which is the exact opposite of reality. This complete clownworld inversion of the truth is something you would expect in North Korea or the Soviet Union. Thank goodness we still have some free media who refuse to go along with the establishment fake news line.

[Chris P]

I did not say he deserved anything. I am saying that when you are belligerent and don't follow lawful instruction, then you get what you get. Sometimes keeping it real goes wrong.

As far as the jury, many people say they had no choice given the climate of canceling and doxing. If they had decided any other way, their lives may have been in danger. I was the jury foreman on a meth trafficking case 2 years ago this month. We deliberated for 3 days. There is no way a fair and impartial jury is going to only deliberate 10 hours on a murder case. Those people knew what they had to do.

Very true. One of the jurors has come out and said so since the trial. Hell, even the judge said that Maxine Waters' public incitement of violence was probable grounds for an appeal.

[Mr Enternational]

I agree with your many of your points. And to some other's point, I hate the use of the term "systemic" racism because, even though I believe that racism is a hurdle for many people, I don't believe much of it is systemic but rather cultural.

But there lies the problem with your perspective. Being born into lower economic tiers and perceived racial tiers poses its challenges. The average white or Asian person in the US is generally born into a better economic and educational situation than the average black or brown kid.
When black or brown kids develop the mannerisms and thought processes that surround them at an early age, naturally, that will pose challenges in the Anglo-culture adult world.

I say these things not to excuse certain outcomes; we are all in the end ultimately responsible for growth and adaptation. Rather, I am recognizing that some groups have obstacles that hinder their growth. Understanding the source of the problem may lead to better outcomes.

The alternative explanation is to say that black kids are born innately bad or inferior. Who here believes that and are willing to say it out loud?

I would disagree that Asians are born into better economic conditions. When you travel the world you will see Chinese people doing the exact same shit you have seen in America. I have seen this shit with my own eyes. Dominican Republic, Panama, Brazil. They go there without a pot to urinate in and can't even speak the language! They sell fruit on a corner or work at a restaurant meanwhile learning the language. Eventually they buy a little restaurant or small store. Their whole family sleeps in the back of said restaurant or store.

They send the kids to school to learn business or medicine and the kids speak the local languange and their native language perfectly. They end up owning a chain of stores or restaurants and the local Blacks resent them thinking somebody gave them something or they had some kind of upper hand. No. They just put their noses to the grindstone and didn't make any damn excuses about a system that was out to get them.

You are damn right it is cultural. Because a big arguement is that you do not hear these things from African immigrants who are some would say even Blacker than Black Americans. You see them on the news being offered scholarships from 10 different Ivy League schools. You see them as Beverly Hills plastic surgeons. American descendants of slaves are constantly told by their own people about how they are being held back by the system, that they end up perpetuating the lie and holding themselves back. You see those 4 million dollar houses that Black Lives Matter lady bought? Appears nobody is holding her back or out to kill her. Hmmm.

Even when given things like stimulus checks or the PPP loans, they didn't use that money to better their situation. Jewelry purchases in the Black community went up and a lot of people falsified loans to become ballers. Meanwhile I used my shit and bought some Dogecoin turning that free money into 10 times what it was worth in a short period of time. Now it is time to go out and buy a new gold chain!

[Travv]

Gazette Times .

05 03 2021.

Jim Redden.

"Former Oregon House Speaker and current Clackamas Community College board member Dave Hunt (Democrat) was cited by Portland police in an undercover sex traffic sting operation in April.

Contacted by the Portland Tribune on Monday, Hunt said, "I don't think I should talk about that."

Clackamas Community College announced several hours later that Hunt was taking a leave from the board.

As a legislator, Hunt was one of numerous sponsors of a bill criminalizing sex trafficking in 2007. In 2011, he also voted for HB 2714, the bill that created the crime of commercial sexual solicitation, the crime for which he was arrested and cited.

The Portland Police Bureau issued a press release on Saturday saying its Human Trafficking Unit had cited eight men in an operation conducted in April. Officers posted online decoy ads on known human trafficking websites, and the subjects who "contacted undercover police officers to arrange payment for sexual acts" were criminally cited on the charge of commercial sexual solicitation.

The release did not name those cited, but said the list was available on request. The Portland Tribune requested the list and received it Monday morning, May 3. It included "53-year-old David Hunt of Milwaukie."

Comments: he sponsors and votes a bill to punish men who hire prostitutes, and he gets caught breaking the law that he sponsored. Sadly ironic. . . And typical of American politicians. . . Hoist by his own petard.

[GDreams]

This was one case by a rogue police officer. Police officers are trained to react to the situation. In most cases blacks were shot for resisting arrest and had a weapon. An officer is trained to stop that criminal before he gets harmed or anyone else gets harmed. Where is your outrage when a black police officer shoots a white criminal who resists arrest? Where is your outrage for all the blacks killing blacks and killing black innocent children in all the democratic cities like Chicago. Don't those Black Lives Matter. Are the only Black lives that matter have to be criminals breaking the law and getting shot by white police. Is that what you are saying.

Once again you deflect. Blacks killing blacks is not about racism apart from people like yourself arguing against policies that would address the problem. Why is it that most mass shootings are carried out by whites? Why is this an epidemic almost exclusively American? Why is the US subject to so many more civilian gun deaths than any other country?

If you don't believe in that there is extensive racism then you are the most deluded person on the planet. I am racist though I try to suppress it in my daily life. I'm sure blacks are racist against whites and Asians. I'm sure Asians are racist. It's an inbuilt tribal behaviour to distrust those who are different. It is how we behave towards one another that dictates whether it becomes a systematic problem. Your denial and deflection is just a hindrance to achieving a more harmonious society.

[Paulie97]

And this means that every other black person pulled over by the police and were shot or killed or treaty unfairly/unjustly or illegally targeted were wrong because it did not happen to you?

That one BTW is it's own fallacy in and of itself. On the internet it's right up there with the straw man and proof by repetition (ad nauseam) in popularity.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

[Mursenary]

I am not affiliated with any political party. I vote for the candidate that will represent my interest of the day the best. That being said, being a Black man, liberal outlets keep telling me I am going to get killed by the police and all this stuff about there being systemic racism. I don't remember Fox stimulating any of this fear.

It's great that you know how to behave in order to stay safe. Whether through good parents or other influences such as community role models or your military service, you learned how to mesh well into mainstream society's behavioral expectations.

I agree with your many of your points. And to some other's point, I hate the use of the term "systemic" racism because, even though I believe that racism is a hurdle for many people, I don't believe much of it is systemic but rather cultural.

But there lies the problem with your perspective. Being born into lower economic tiers and perceived racial tiers poses its challenges. The average white or Asian person in the US is generally born into a better economic and educational situation than the average black or brown kid. Without the financial cushion or cultural influences where certain standards of education or conduct molds a person's behaviors and character, it's harder for the average black kid to assimilate to the mainstream culture. Lack of role model is the superficial and simplistic reasoning I guess.

When black or brown kids develop the mannerisms and thought processes that surround them at an early age, naturally, that will pose challenges in the Anglo-culture adult world. I know I grew up in a rough neighborhood with a brash culture. As a result, many times in everyday life, people think that I am angry when I am only speaking passionately. You are often the product of your surroundings. I see the same trend in many black kids. To many, they are acting according to the way they were raised. They don't see their behavior as uncivil, wrong, or that it may cause discomfort in others.

But put that comfort with the expression of primal emotion and the lack of material resources alongside the differing expression of mainstream Anglo society, and you have friction and misunderstanding often due to differences in communication or behavioral norms. Take that stereotypical poor black kid culture in certain Latin or Souteast Asian societies and maybe situations would not escalate to physical altercations with law enforcement.

I say these things not to excuse certain outcomes; we are all in the end ultimately responsible for growth and adaptation. Rather, I am recognizing that some groups have obstacles that hinder their growth. Understanding the source of the problem may lead to better outcomes.

The alternative explanation is to say that black kids are born innately bad or inferior. Who here believes that and are willing to say it out loud?

[Run Mann]

This unsubstantiated allegation that the jury made their decision based on external pressure rather than the evidence is the product of guys like Tucker Carlson and his sheep. The truth though is that the former is intelligent enough to know better, but needs to come up with provocative material for every show to keep up the ratings and line his pockets. The dumb sheep that think they are accessing a "fair and balanced" news source don't know better unfortunately.

Some people still belive Fox is real news but take it from Fox themselves they are not. At least Tucker Carlson is not. FOX and Carlson were sued for slander and Fox defense of Carlson was to argue:

That no 'reasonable viewer' takes Tucker Carlson seriously. You Literally Can't Believe The Facts Tucker Carlson Tells You. The judge in the case ruled that "The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that Carlson is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary. ' ".

US District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil agreed with Fox's premise, adding that the network "persuasively argues" that "given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive (s) with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statements he makes. " This 'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that he is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary, the ruling said.

Incredelous right but hopefully now some of you loyal Fox viewers who rely on Carlson to inform you, now know that he is not engaging in facts. Shocker, LOL! Question is, why would a "news" organzation showcase a fraud in their primetime slot every week night?

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...carlson-2020-9

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/91774...ay-fox-s-lawye

[Golfinho]

I did not say he deserved anything. I am saying that when you are belligerent and don't follow lawful instruction, then you get what you get. Sometimes keeping it real goes wrong.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that it's by their behavior that consequences come to them? If a black man tells me he has suffered racism, I have no reason to doubt him. Just like I wouldn't doubt an Asian, a Hispanic, a catholic, a homosexual, a fat person, an ethnic of any kind, or anyone who says they experienced ill-treatment. But this blaming other people for problems that you created yourself has gone too far.

[Canada]

That's exactly what you stated before and what you're stating now. Even if he did not follow instructions, he should not have been killed by a police officer who is trained to served and protect. As to the jury, there you go spouting off again with no proof. Those people have brains, they saw a police with his knees on a man's neck for nine minutes, they had doctors telling them that the man died because the police had his knee on the man's neck so he expired. They heard another police tell the convicted police that he could not feel a pulse on the man but the convicted police kept his knees on the man's neck anyway. They heard the man pleeding for his life. They had the chief of police come in and tell them that what the police did was a violation of their policy and was not allowed. How much more deliberation than let's say five minutes do they need? The OJ jury came back fast too, they made the right decision but we all know they got it wrong because of what they were given.

This was one case by a rogue police officer. Police officers are trained to react to the situation. In most cases blacks were shot for resisting arrest and had a weapon. An officer is trained to stop that criminal before he gets harmed or anyone else gets harmed. Where is your outrage when a black police officer shoots a white criminal who resists arrest? Where is your outrage for all the blacks killing blacks and killing black innocent children in all the democratic cities like Chicago. Don't those Black Lives Matter. Are the only Black lives that matter have to be criminals breaking the law and getting shot by white police. Is that what you are saying.