Kyiv

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If you are not looking for real company, but only for quick sex. Along with the cost of travel, despite cheaper air tickets, Kiev is more expensive. It is so.

Agree.

Successful visitors whose opinion I find valuable do not think that way. Kiev is definitely not the right place for short term visitor looking for quick sex.

Of course there is also the Caribbean Club and other discos. But on my last visits there was nothing going on. The ratio of 5 men to 1 girl (if you exclude the girls who were not for sale, who came with men or in a group). The quality rather in the lower average.

Mamba. Tinder. Badoo. Not free anymore if you really want to search and message all the girls. But here, too, there is significantly less choice than before. Lots of girls behind which agencies are hiding. Fake profiles.

Why even bother looking at Caribbean? Arena City? Disco? Unless you are 25-35 great looking and confident. Even then. There's so many truly classy places in Kiev away from those dumps.

10-15 years ago those managing sex industry in Kiev quickly understood that River Palace is mostly an independent competition, not bringing them much revenue. Hence it's been towed away. Nothing else even distantly reminiscent has been created ever since, except for illusion engineered to milk those with wrong expectations. It's retail business now. Instead of USD per square foot they calculate euro per girl-hour. And this approach with ordering BBBJ and DATY beforehand helps to maximize the cash flow, while not ensuring any quality. Most of visitors are either drunk, or not repeat customers anyway.

During my stay in Kiev the hourly girls told me that dispatchers warned them about me: "he is a PC, - permanent customer. " That's why statistically speaking their service level for me was noticeably higher.

The agencies usually overpriced. It is advertised with a cheap basic price. Then charged extra for each service. Order a prostitute for 2000 UAH. Then 1000 UAH for bareback blowjob. 500 UAH for kissing. 500 UAH for licking. 800 UAH for cumming on the body. Or 1000 UAH for facial. These are now the standard price lists. A service that together costs 180-200 dollars. For one hour. Not much different than "Gia". The escort service that used to be branded as very expensive.

Approaching it as a business with a service catalog doesn't guarantee much. Certainly not the affordable options. Why GIA should make more money? Besides, I do not know, but the protection above all of these may converge to the same power players. At least they control the segments of this market industry.

Yet again, successful visitors stay for extended periods of time, and get all of the above amenities included in the total price of the business project so to speak. And their meticulously concubines are eager to deliver. I personally know 5 gentlemen currently enjoying the lifestyle, while we argue here on our Forum.

And that in Ukraine. With supposedly minimal wages and tiny incomes (300-400 dollars a month). But everyone has a new iPhone in their pocket.

Kiev is not a poor city. Forget the iPhones! Take a look at the cars driven downtown. Not just 500 SEL Mercedes, not even 600, - it's Maybach, Bentley, Austin Martin. Not VW Tuareg, -Porsche SUV, Gelendwagen. Check out the dynamics of real estate prices.

Aspirations to position the girls in Kiev as hungry and begging for Western visitors attention are utterly misplaced. Wrong city and country chosen.

If you really want amateurs. Then all you have to do is invest your time. Much time. Search on all portals. In clubs. At discos. Build contacts. So "hunt".

Cross out clubs and discos. The rest is true 100%.

And after breaking the initial rather tough barrier, one gets into the territory where the challenge becomes not the scarcity of female resources, but rather his own bandwidth congestion, that is availability of his free time, as too many beautiful young ladies start to clog the calendar and contacts.

[Misterxxx]

Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.

A few years ago it was easier. But the safe sources for cheap women have dried up. On my first visit to Kiev, dozens of women were standing in front of the Hotel Rus waiting for men. All prostitutes. But that was a long, long time ago. Then later there was the River Palace. Go there, chat up, take away. But the River Palace is gone. Today there are many apartments and escorts. Often advertised with false photos. From the price and the service offered: too expensive. In Western Europe you get the same performance for the same price. Often even cheaper. If you are not looking for real company, but only for quick sex. Along with the cost of travel, despite cheaper air tickets, Kiev is more expensive. It is so. Even if a lot of people don't want to believe that. Prices have increased significantly over the last year in particular.

Of course there is also the Caribbean Club and other discos. But on my last visits there was nothing going on. The ratio of 5 men to 1 girl (if you exclude the girls who were not for sale, who came with men or in a group). The quality rather in the lower average.

Mamba. Tinder. Badoo. Not free anymore if you really want to search and message all the girls. But here, too, there is significantly less choice than before. Lots of girls behind which agencies are hiding. Fake profiles.

The agencies usually overpriced. It is advertised with a cheap basic price. Then charged extra for each service. Order a prostitute for 2000 UAH. Then 1000 UAH for bareback blowjob. 500 UAH for kissing. 500 UAH for licking. 800 UAH for cumming on the body. Or 1000 UAH for facial. These are now the standard price lists. A service that together costs 180-200 dollars. For one hour. Not much different than "Gia". The escort service that used to be branded as very expensive. And that in Ukraine. With supposedly minimal wages and tiny incomes (300-400 dollars a month). But everyone has a new iPhone in their pocket.

If you really want amateurs. Then all you have to do is invest your time. Much time. Search on all portals. In clubs. At discos. Build contacts. So "hunt".

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Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.

Yep, same here. Wish when I visited, there were clear directions: "Here are the most affordable, yet reliable, and amazingly beautiful girls available for your pleasure at $34.99 a minute. Please proceed and order at your leisure."

There are no pre-digested ready-to-consume FKK's in Ukraine, Desin.

The thrill is in the hunt, in proving to myself that I can find gorgeous females willing to spend great time with me.

Hope I'll be there again one day yet in this life.

[Desin]

Reading these posts would make more sense if there were prices and sources of pick up included.

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I myself once pissed off a ballerina-wannabe 19 y. o. girl by saying, "If I rent out the Kyiv Opera House, would you dance for me?"

I heard that back in the Soviet times Kyiv's opera / ballet was one of the top three along with Kirov and Bolshoi. But upon checking them out with my own eyes, Kyiv's was nowhere close to the quality of Mariinsky or Bolshoi today, or any of the major western European opera/ballet companies. So I stopped going to the National Opera of Ukraine in Kyiv. But in order to lure ladies it still works well understandably.

The character dancer from Mariinsky was a friend of mine. She even held Baryshnikov's hand on occasion. I didn't get a chance to visit The Temple.

Did visit Bolshoy, as I had a girl whose mom in mid-80's was part of the Soviet Government with access to tickets. At the time though, I was too young to comprehend.

I also had at least 5 escorts with ballet education: classical, contemporary, ethnic dance. The latter was multi-orgasmic. Yet, holding the hands of the classical dancer while she is in her lace panties standing on points, very exhilarating!

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On this occasion I selected an escort, one I had met twice before, not a civvie, and made the expectations clear beforehand. I had purchased seats in a private box to the far left of the stage, and also purchased the seats adjoining this box, to ensure as much privacy as possible. The girl herself, had zero interest in theatre, and this performance was a ballet, which I guess is the most challenging to watch if you are not a true enthusiast. After the first intermission, we left and retired to my apartment, since she could neither perform as agreed, nor had interest in the performance on stage, and I can't enjoy it myself if the person I am with is noticeably bored.

I would have been satisified with a handjob (not to completion since I wouldn't want to deal with clean up) and getting to play with her between her legs, but neither were on the cards.

I vaguely recall you and I had a discussion about this. If I misspoke and gave you a false hope, misinformed you, - my profound apologies. This sort of knowledge transfer better be done in person.

Your girl got the money she wanted. You came a bit short. I have had an unpleasant experience with hourly girls twice, where one wasn't interested in the action on stage, misbehaved, and I released her. The other one had a long argument with a pesky controlling dispatcher, that tried to assert her power over the providing employee. But then she was glued to the "Madame Butterfly" action. Not my favorite opera, but she was great in missionary before and after. 19 years, passionate, beautiful, and still in contact.

Other than that, the girls are thrilled. Probably me not trying to fuck them doggie style in front of the awed audience helped the vibes. Hahaha.

GIA girls loved both ballet and opera. Most of them are classy.

One country girl from the Western Ukraine I know for years. We had great time at the Theater more than once. During "Sleeping Beauty" the couple behind us was an obvious expensive escort with a wealthy New Yorker about 35 years old. We were sitting in the front raw, I was taking videos, and that escort had the audacity to ask for a copy of my videos. I gave her my phone, and asked to punch in her number. She pretended to ask: "Would your wife mind?" - I responded with: "As long as your husband doesn't. " I didn't contact her afterwards, she seemed too plastic / digital / insincere. My country girl was a true gem 2015-2018, and confident enough not to care. I extracted her from Rio in 2015.

On another occasion the virgin girl (first time ever at ballet) was visibly bored at the Swan Lake (It was at least a fifth show for me, I can go to Tchaikovsky anytime! I asked if she wants to leave together this god-forsaken place. She looked around and asked:

- How much are those seats over there next to us?

I explained, and told her that ours are the best, but that's OK, we can leave NP. And then she said:

- No! We need to watch till the very end. Perhaps something interesting will happen.

Later she begged me to go again, eventually becoming a theater addict. Very unorthodox young lady. Her father was a spetsnaz unit commander.

To me theater is a vetting tool, to see if it makes sense to keep the girl.

[VinDici]

I am far from the thought to be judgmental. If the guy wants to fuck the beauty at the Theater, and she is creative enough, then by all means go for it. At the same time I know from personal experience that ticket babushkas and other service folks watch closely that alcohol is not consumed during the ongoing performance on stage, especially if you are sitting in the front row. Perhaps ushers would notice, and object to your minor mischief. Maybe not persecute or report, but it can be unpleasant, for her, or both. I used to go Theater at least twice a week, and prefer to keep it kosher myself.

Either way, it is difficult to negotiate at the Theater, so to keep any expectations realistic, I would discuss it explicitly beforehand. IMHO baignoire box seats are the best for the purpose. I did DFK there NP. Having my hand up high on her bare thigh in parterre never attracted anybody's attention. And I do it slowly, but steadily. If my advances are not welcome, then she is the wrong girl. Another way to test the new girl on the first date at the Theater is always taking her to the third level during intermission, show the stage from the above, then find a somewhat secret corner, and kiss her. Out of a few that I tried, nobody refused a gentle deep kiss. And there's much less unsolicited witnesses in the hallway of the third level.

Best wishes in your endeavors!

On this occasion I selected an escort, one I had met twice before, not a civvie, and made the expectations clear beforehand. I had purchased seats in a private box to the far left of the stage, and also purchased the seats adjoining this box, to ensure as much privacy as possible. The girl herself, had zero interest in theatre, and this performance was a ballet, which I guess is the most challenging to watch if you are not a true enthusiast. After the first intermission, we left and retired to my apartment, since she could neither perform as agreed, nor had interest in the performance on stage, and I can't enjoy it myself if the person I am with is noticeably bored.

I would have been satisified with a handjob (not to completion since I wouldn't want to deal with clean up) and getting to play with her between her legs, but neither were on the cards.

This kind of behavior only makes Ukrainian ladies' expectation of western men even lower.

I myself once pissed off a ballerina-wannabe 19 y. o. girl by saying, "If I rent out the Kyiv Opera House, would you dance for me?"

I heard that back in the Soviet times Kyiv's opera / ballet was one of the top three along with Kirov and Bolshoi. But upon checking them out with my own eyes, Kyiv's was nowhere close to the quality of Mariinsky or Bolshoi today, or any of the major western European opera/ballet companies. So I stopped going to the National Opera of Ukraine in Kyiv. But in order to lure ladies it still works well understandably. Use it wisely, I'd say.

If western men approached civvies and behaved this way certainly, I would agree. However approaching a sex worker and asking for sexual services in the context of a fetish, with full consent, doesn't seem inappropriate to me.

[Sorbonne]

I tried this on my last visit. One girl was particularly keen on repeat visits with me, but I tend to go for older, so I was a little apprehensive. I later relented since I figured her enthusiasm for me would make for great fuck sessions, as she would be motivated to keep my interest. I have always wanted to fuck a girl in the Theatre and would happily settle for a blowie or a handy, depending on what I could get away with, so I agreed to meet this girl on the condition that there would be some hanky panky.

I booked a private box at the ballet, and picked one that seemed to be the most discreet seating.

When we were there I was hoping to slip my hand up her skirt, but she stopped me, and I got a half hearted handy, but she was so concerned about us being found out, that there was no skill applied, as such I couldn't even get hard. Total waste of tickets, hors the'oeuvres and drinks. I fucked her when we got home, but all in all it was a disappointment. Obviously she wanted another meet during my visit, so I made a booking, but I cancelled on her at the last minute as punishment.

Anyone here had sucess fucking a girl at the theatre / opera / ballet, and if so, how did you manage it?

This kind of behavior only makes Ukrainian ladies' expectation of western men even lower.

I myself once pissed off a ballerina-wannabe 19 y. o. girl by saying, "If I rent out the Kyiv Opera House, would you dance for me?"

I heard that back in the Soviet times Kyiv's opera / ballet was one of the top three along with Kirov and Bolshoi. But upon checking them out with my own eyes, Kyiv's was nowhere close to the quality of Mariinsky or Bolshoi today, or any of the major western European opera/ballet companies. So I stopped going to the National Opera of Ukraine in Kyiv. But in order to lure ladies it still works well understandably. Use it wisely, I'd say.

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Photoslider, what is the price you pay for them for the evening. Couple of times of sex?

Was she a referral? (was that the proper word for it.).

This particular one was free. It's a long story: I met her as a referral from Relax masseuse. The latter one couldn't go with me in 2014, and introduced to her friend from remote village. And that country girl is now my longest term regular. That was 36 hours visit and personal record of having 6 girls, including one FMF threesome.

The worst cases at the Theater moneywise are GIA or agency / apartment hourly girls.

GIA was too expensive on the first date, 300-500 USD, even taking into account their progressive payment scale. I used to pay GIA dispatcher for the first hour ($150-200), and then paid the girl directly about 60-75%. Great way to establish reliable business partners. This way I got 4 GIA employees, who then retired from the shop, but kept enjoying the lifestyle. 2 of them are still in contact. The third girl was that mentally traumatized from Luhansk / Donbas. The fourth one was not sincere enough, yet I remember how upon leaving for her University class in the morning she exclaimed: "Well, I am certainly allowed to, and have time for this!" then reached under the blanket, and performed an impeccable BBBJ.

Hourly girls are too much hassle at the Theater. They get calls from the dispatcher checking on them every hour, that they are still OK, and all that BS. I hear these days it's 3000 UAH an hour. But you don't have to keep her for the duration. One girl misbehaved by pulling her phone and attempting to chat during Nutcracker. I invited her outside of our box suite for a moment, and then told her to leave even before the first intermission.

Regular girls are truly the best. Those fall into 2 categories. Businesswomen, where I pay 1000 UAH an hour, and cup it off at 5 K UAH. And pseudo-GFs, - those trusting me well enough, so that payment is not discussed. Usually they arrive on the commuter train, couple hours away, and stay with me for up to 5 days. They love Theater. I pay their life expenses within reasonable limits, like 1600-1800 UAH dorm fee for semester, or couple pairs of everyday shoes, good Levi's jeans, lingerie, etc. It makes total sense to me while visiting Kiev for 4-6 weeks. If I get bored, I send the current girl to do her manicure, and pedicure first ever in her life for a couple hours, and tell the dispatcher to send me an hourly or two for variety. Also at the end of my visit, just like Kozerog, I give a good bonus (3-10 K UAH, and up to $1 k) to my best favorite girl.

I go with the flow. That hourly girl Zhanna, with a firm round good size ass, I probably paid about $300, expensive, but she was great. I don't do that anymore. Because my funds can be used more wisely, even within our hobby, but also because hourly girls with rare exceptions are not classy enough. I did convert a few to my regulars. With one in particular, stage name Paulina, it could have been transformed into a good script, like "Pretty woman" with Julia Roberts. I had her once in September 2018, and on the very first encounter I extended her for another hour right away, because she was outstanding in bed. Then in December 2018 before my departure from Kiev we partied with a local friend, ordering girls, drinking. He was happy, I thought we could have done better. Then he left, and I called the dispatcher for the third round: "More wine, and fresh women!" The door of the delivery vehicle opened, and lo and behold, I see Paulina blushing, and saying in her sweetest voice: "I wanted it to happen differentlyyyy." Anyway, she stayed with me for a few hours, I introduced her to my driver / events manager, and we are still in contact. Actually, she was one of the few that sent me Happy New Years Eve message a month ago. With her Theater was free. She was shy to kiss outside in public, but awesome in bed, and more importantly. A great person to be with.

I am far from the thought to be judgmental. If the guy wants to fuck the beauty at the Theater, and she is creative enough, then by all means go for it. At the same time I know from personal experience that ticket babushkas and other service folks watch closely that alcohol is not consumed during the ongoing performance on stage, especially if you are sitting in the front row. Perhaps ushers would notice, and object to your minor mischief. Maybe not persecute or report, but it can be unpleasant, for her, or both. I used to go Theater at least twice a week, and prefer to keep it kosher myself.

Either way, it is difficult to negotiate at the Theater, so to keep any expectations realistic, I would discuss it explicitly beforehand. IMHO baignoire box seats are the best for the purpose. I did DFK there NP. Having my hand up high on her bare thigh in parterre never attracted anybody's attention. And I do it slowly, but steadily. If my advances are not welcome, then she is the wrong girl. Another way to test the new girl on the first date at the Theater is always taking her to the third level during intermission, show the stage from the above, then find a somewhat secret corner, and kiss her. Out of a few that I tried, nobody refused a gentle deep kiss. And there's much less unsolicited witnesses in the hallway of the third level.

Best wishes in your endeavors!

[Desin]

Photoslider, what is the price you pay for them for the evening. Couple of times of sex?

Anyway, one of the girls upon returning from Giselle to my AirBnB complained that I didn't touch her thigh during ballet. I always did, taking her perhaps to 8 or 10 different times. She totally expected it. Go figure!

Was she a referral? (was that the proper word for it.).

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I tried this on my last visit. One girl was particularly keen on repeat visits with me, but I tend to go for older, so I was a little apprehensive. I later relented since I figured her enthusiasm for me would make for great fuck sessions, as she would be motivated to keep my interest. I have always wanted to fuck a girl in the Theatre and would happily settle for a blowie or a handy, depending on what I could get away with, so I agreed to meet this girl on the condition that there would be some hanky panky.

I booked a private box at the ballet, and picked one that seemed to be the most discreet seating.

When we were there I was hoping to slip my hand up her skirt, but she stopped me, and I got a half hearted handy, but she was so concerned about us being found out, that there was no skill applied, as such I couldn't even get hard. Total waste of tickets, hors the'oeuvres and drinks. I fucked her when we got home, but all in all it was a disappointment. Obviously she wanted another meet during my visit, so I made a booking, but I cancelled on her at the last minute as punishment.

Anyone here had success fucking a girl at the theatre / opera / ballet, and if so, how did you manage it?

Seriously doubt, unless the girl is heavily under influence. And I prefer conscious mutual consent of both the involved adults.

Even a BJ is difficult at the most strip clubs in Kiev. Why? Because those students and such take the special pride in being dancers, not prostitutes. Same applies to massage places, where on premises the most possible would be DATY, and obviously a handjob, which is part of the menu, but again, not a BJ or further.

Kiev is not Thailand. Most of the time there is an expectation of decency in the public. Many of those girls have a life outside of escort. Many of them are residents of Kiev, or have aspirations in the near future.

BTW, there was a report on January 20,2022 of a brothel bust in Rivne, with a bunch of girls on-site, a naked customer filmed by the police, hidden video-cameras connected to Internet discovered in those boudoir alcoves. The best was another girl reporting for duty, just arriving on a train from Kherson, with her suitcase and all. Police lead her in. There's a video of the whole process in Russian / Ukrainian language. Hilarious.

Anyway, getting the girls outside the massage parlor is another story, as an admin of Relax "had the honor" in my arms, and we became close friends. Again, she refused to go to Theater with me, and encounters were limited to my Airbnb.

At the Theater all of their attention is focused on the stage performance. They imagine themselves there, not as actors, but as characters in the play. That is why my plan is simple: fuck them before the show. And then by inspiration after. My preference is to stay within 5-7 minutes walking distance from Theater, and meet no less than 2 hours before the overture kicks off. Even with that cushion, if the girl is great, then on the first date more than once I risked being late for the beginning. Literally, catching the breath, both of us sweaty and naked in my bed, then dressing very quickly, laughing, smiling, and walking briskly to theater for Swan Lake.

Another new girl arrived to my Airbnb 20 minutes before the show. I verbatim asked her to give me a quick BJ, she graciously leaned forward, and we both knew there's no time for a real intercourse, but she was very horny at the theater. Yet I had no true desire to fuck her there. Yes, while we were waiting outside our booth behind the curtains, while still seeing the stage, I checked out her beautiful 19 years old derriere, indeed under her skirt, and she had no stockings. Forgive me giving too much detail please, but I didn't touch her private parts.

There's erotic and there's pornography. The latter is where they show the genitals. Tasteful erotic at the theater is publicly accepted. The way the ladies of all ages dress at the theater is amazing! Who needs to pay attention to stage, when there is so much eye candy in the seats and the hallway! 20-30 age gap within the couples is no problem. As the performance unfolds, I place the palm of my hand on her thigh, and slowly move it up and towards the within. Lots of fun. My imagination is strong enough, and the inside of the young lady's thigh is oh so tender. I do not even dare to continue my thoughts to fully explain. And specifically for this purpose, I do ask my regulars to put on thin fabric dresses.

Anyway, one of the girls upon returning from Giselle to my AirBnB complained that I didn't touch her thigh during ballet. I always did, taking her perhaps to 8 or 10 different times. She totally expected it. Go figure!

I very much enjoy Theater myself. Few glasses of champagne, and then Armenian brendy, plus a young beauty makes it even more pleasurable. Then we go to Avalon for a dinner, and then for another round at my place. That's where mediocre ones do not pass the test, and the great ones become regulars, some even staying overnight, no money discussed. Girls love leaving the fairy tales, and I don't rush them. Get paid back in spades.

So, to answer your question straight, no, I don't think it's possible to have a good BJ or a HJ at the theater. Even those girls that agree to go together, they don't care about sex while there's action on stage.

[Rocko20]

Is anyone over their talking about a possible war? Not seeing nothing about!

I had a tripped planned for April that I've cancelled until things have settled down.

I don't think Ukraine would be better if Russia took over. There would be a lot of refugees who want to get out.

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Is anyone over their talking about a possible war? Not seeing nothing about!

Why "possible war"? Proper statement would be "further escalation of the war on-going since 2014".

14000 dead, at least a million relocated.

I personally had a multi-week hobby interaction with a few girls from Donbas. At first they are young and fresh and seem the same. Over time though definitely traumatized. Taught me to avoid.

Yes, my Kiev friends have serious concerns about the things getting significantly worse.

Sorbonne did the right thing bailing out. And yes, failing to support during crisis means starting from scratch during the next visit.

[Sorbonne]

Whether or not the invasion eventually happens, the threat is real, and I left Ukraine 2 weeks before the US government's recommendation for a southern European country.

A regular from Kyiv is now asking me to let her join me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with her. I don't want her to necessarily join me, but if I refuse, it'll probably be the end of our relation.

If Russia takes over the entire country of Ukraine, I wonder if the scene would be any better.

[Sorbonne]

It really depends on who you want to ask?

https://ua.usembassy.gov/ukraine-lev...-not-travel-2/

Across the pond https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-Ukraine.html.

Whether or not the invasion eventually happens, the threat is real, and I left Ukraine 2 weeks before the US government's recommendation for a southern European country.

A regular from Kyiv is now asking me to let her join me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with her. I don't want her to necessarily join me, but if I refuse, it'll probably be the end of our relation.