Stupid shit in Medellin

[JjBee62]

I will name two, smallpox and within our lifetimes, polio. For polio, the success will be due largely in part to the efforts of one of those service clubs we have here in America, for which one of my superstar sister's was president.

As always, you have to define your terms. I am defining 100% effective at clinically eradicating the disease off the face of the earth. There will always be smallpox and polio infectious cultures in government labs somewhere.

That was the answer to one of my many topic points in my earlier post about "things you need to know to have an intelligent conversation about Covid".

I am certain you knew the answer already, and were just baiting the readership with your question, right? Jeje.

Carry on as I know you will. Does that rise to the level of a future prediction? Nah, any idiot can see that coming.

Individually, neither is 100% effective. However, the cumulative dosing to almost the entire population makes up for the few which the vaccine didn't work on.

For Polio it was pretty easy. The disease can only be spread through fecal material and a person is only infectious for 1-2 weeks. Also polio virus is only found humans. No animals are known to carry it. This is beneficial.

[JjBee62]

For starters. Lets go with the chickpox vaccine and the polio vaccine. In my country of a population of 1.4 million. At least 300 k chickpox vac and almost the same amount of polio vacc have been given in the last 10+ years. With ZERO infections happening with the people who got the vacc. Now come with the different covid vacc. We got 3 brands here. On the daily health briefing. The number of full vaxxed people that are getting covid is rising. . . . and this is not only here. Look at Israel and other highly vaxxed countries // where over 90% of the population is vaxxed. And they having some really crazy outbreaks of covid. That alone tells you the vaccines are not working.

Let's start with the chickenpox vaccine. It's not 100% effective at preventing infection. However, 100% people don't get exposed to chickenpox. If enough of the population is vaccinated, cases start to drop, because the disease. The same is true with polio.

With Covid the big problem is that it's highly mutable, like the flu. While the vaccines provide some protection against variants. Why would it be 100% effective against a new variant?

Since you brought up Israel, 90% of deaths and serious illness are unvaccinated. Can you give me a quick primer on how a vaccine is supposed to work if a person doesn't take it.

[JjBee62]

Man 100% fact. I don't know how people at this stage will tell people that vaccines don't offer 100% protection from getting the disease its made for. Then why call it a vaccine if its not going to do that. But nah. Common sense is lacking in this world yes.

Vaccines don't offer 100% protection against getting a disease. It would be great if they did, but they don't.

Here's Smallpox vaccine. It's 95% effective. https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/7022/.

This next link has a bunch of vaccines listed.

Polio -90% effective with 2 doses, 99% effective with 4 doses.

Chickenpox -90% effective.

HIB -93%.

HPV -90%.

Measles 94%.

Meningoccocal- doesn't provide 100%.

Mumps -88%.

Pneumcocca -75% effective or more.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/hepb/index.html

The vaccines don't need to be perfect. They only have reduce the number of people who can pass the disease. If the disease can't find someone new to affect.

[JjBee62]

I'm sure you meant to say 0.09% of the Canadian population has died from Covid.

It's certainly possible I misplaced a decimal point.

Please explain. The statistics I'm reading say that the US has made 2.73, Pakistan 0.11 and Indonesia 0.27 tests per capita.

The numbers I quoted are the percentage of tests given which are positive, not the percentage of the population. I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at.

[Osteoknot]

Why?

Why do you worry about corrupted data? You cam define your own parameters for your solution.

I am sorry but this is getting to be too much like work. I want to keep my vibe going of why I am here in the first place. I fully retired in 2019. You ask reasonably intelligent questions, that I will be happy to answer if you pay my consultant fee. For you, $50 K. That's half-off. Jajajajajajaaaa. I am sorry to give you the kiss-off. Ostee Out and let's Keep On Keepin' On.

[Nounce]

The city size has nothing to do with it, and is not a Devil's Detail...

Why?

Why do you worry about corrupted data? You cam define your own parameters for your solution.

[JustTK]

You are making the problem more political than it is, ...nothing in the way of solution for current state. You come across as an extremist with fringe beliefs.

If you look at my post again, you will see that I posted a video of how a country with a public sector health care system has declared the pandemic over. You clearly have your own agenda bcos I made no effort to propose a solution to anything. Except maybe to the evils of profit-based health care.

Public health care is extremet? No. The USA and its private health care is the extremist system. Its the only one in the entire developed world. That, by definition, makes it extreme.

[Osteoknot]

I was talking with an industry insider today and she countered my opinion about future state with vaccines mandates by legislation. She believes they will make the Covid vaccine necessary in order to attend public schools. I think they sort of do that now with other vaccines, not sure. So whether by regulation, legislation or some other kind of mandate, she agrees that future state will include some sort of mandatory vaccination program, in the United States. She probably knows as much or more than me about the subject.

Of course, we have to dig ourselves out of this current KlusterFuk first.

[Osteoknot]

The devil's in the detail. How does your plan work for a city the size of Medellin? How many deaths is acceptable to you? How do you guarantee the number of deaths to fall within your acceptable number?

The city size has nothing to do with it, and is not a Devil's Detail.

The initial death rate was acceptable based on known data before it became corrupted. The vast majority of the deaths from the first wave was 80-90% or people who would have died from all causes within the next two years anyway. The approach we took prolonged the infectious phase we are in now and created unnecessary variants and additional deaths. The unnecessary economic opportunity cost has probably been in the trillions with a T.

Trust me, I have every point covered that you can come up with, but now it's too late to do anything other than, as you said, let the science catch up and let the virus run its course.

[Nounce]

Ahh, you assumption is wrong, another classic pitfall. Where and what and when did I write the virus was static? Not acknowledging the virus variants would be one of the most foolhardy stances a person could assume, and considering the veracity of my overall points, I am surprised you would even consider assigning me that belief. Wow..

The devil's in the detail. How does your plan work for a city the size of Medellin? How many deaths is acceptable to you? How do you guarantee the number of deaths to fall within your acceptable number?

[Osteoknot]

It was not me that made it political. Once govenments got involved back at the start, that's when it was made political.

But it should be clear to anyone by now that only a public health care system puts its people before profit. Private pharma puts its investors first. So when they say they "have the best interests of public health in mind", they are lying to us. They have making profit as their main goal. Thats why we must always be skeptical of any claims made by private companies, and that's why health should always be owned by the people.

You are making the problem more political than it is, almost like a Straw Man argument, it is a misdirection that offers nothing in the way of solution for current state. You might be able to get a toehold when this shitshow is over when we move to Lessons Learned, but right now you are a bore and not helpful. You come across as an extremist with fringe beliefs. You may have the last word if you wish, you are dismissed. I will not engage you on this topic again.

[JustTK]

You can make it political if you want .

It was not me that made it political. Once govenments got involved back at the start, that's when it was made political.

But it should be clear to anyone by now that only a public health care system puts its people before profit. Private pharma puts its investors first. So when they say they "have the best interests of public health in mind", they are lying to us. They have making profit as their main goal. Thats why we must always be skeptical of any claims made by private companies, and that's why health should always be owned by the people.

[JustTK]

Lets go with the chickpox vaccine and the polio vaccine... ZERO infections happening with the people who got the vacc. Now come with the different covid vacc. We got 3 brands here. On the daily health briefing. The number of full vaxxed people that are getting covid is rising. . . . That alone tells you the vaccines are not working.

This highlights one of the major lies that many governments have been telling the public, and why this pandemic management has been so damn corrosive. They started out by telling us that the vax would prevent transmission, and that was a wholehearted lie. No doubt they do it bcos they think the public is too stupid to understand nuance. So they make everything black or white, no room for grey.

Then once the stats started to roll in, they changed the definition of vax. It used to mean prevent transmission. Now it simply means a health booster shot.

[Osteoknot]

I think you are assuming the virus is static. All the arguments saying vaccine is not effective can be used against your idea.

Vaccine works for he virus it is designed for but the virus evolves so there is a mismatch. This is the first version. The science will eventually catch up. One day there may be a vaccine acts like a virus but even more infectious. The only way to not get vaccine then is to completely isolate oneself. Think about that. LOL.

Ahh, you assumption is wrong, another classic pitfall. Where and what and when did I write the virus was static? Not acknowledging the virus variants would be one of the most foolhardy stances a person could assume, and considering the veracity of my overall points, I am surprised you would even consider assigning me that belief. Wow.

Oh, because I said doing nothing was the best course. In the beginning that was true. Now we need a vaccine because we fucked it up so much. That's one of the reasons people on both sides of the vaccine argument are correct but neither side has a clue as to why.

BTW, you are correct. Current state is, the science is catching up. I think if you look back you will find that I predicted Covid vaccines will become integrated with the annual influenza shots we all hold so near and dear to our hearts. I also stuck out my neck further and wrote that they will legislate these annual flu slash Covid shots to be mandatory.

Covid and influenza are more alike than they are different and a couple of posters here acknowledged this through the fog which they were peering. Like I said before, if you take the ten best points from ten different posters here you get something that resembles the truth, but not one person here has a grasp on the overall picture. Except me.

Legislating this combination vaccine to be mandatory will be it's own separate mini-cluster fuck due to the usual fringe anti-vaxer paranoid confused groups. They are always there and predictable. They serve somewhat of a purpose on a population health scale as they instill a watchdog vibe into the mix, but individually they are coo coo for Cocoa Puffs.

[Nounce]

More like science fails again. As I predicted, and what I said from the beginning, letting the virus run it's natural course would have created the greatest good, been the least costly, and saved the most lives. In the middle of this cluster fuck, who the hell knows? Pandora's Box is open and will be for quite some time. Now, current state is starting to look like what we should have done in the beginning.

I haven't been paying attention to the Covid BS here on this thread, but have you seen what's happening in Canada? That news is getting somewhat suppressed, but people are capitulating the will of the masses in freer countries. I don't have a prediction for the rest of North America, but I wouldn't be surprised if similar actions start in the USA.

The wonderful part is, no matter what we do at this point, it doesn't matter, other than for purposes of intellectual curiosity and mental masturbation. That is the irony I assume for those who are still fruitlessly taking a stance on any Covid issue. It no longer matters what you think or believe. That ship sailed a looong time ago. If it wasn't so sad, it would be one of the great all-time cosmic jokes.

I think you are assuming the virus is static. All the arguments saying vaccine is not effective can be used against your idea.

Vaccine works for he virus it is designed for but the virus evolves so there is a mismatch. This is the first version. The science will eventually catch up. One day there may be a vaccine acts like a virus but even more infectious. The only way to not get vaccine then is to completely isolate oneself. Think about that. LOL.