Thread: American Politics
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05-17-22 23:44 #8271
Posts: 1825Originally Posted by PVMonger [View Original Post]
Yes, but you could make any other comparison that you wish to make. Why is demogrpahic or wealth, any better a comparison to many other factors you could choose? Why not compare the country with one that the same levels of obesity. Or same levels of vaccine hesitancy. Or same lack of publci health care?
But regardless, ypu are choosing to argue about smthg that is totally tangential to my post. Which was how much freedom are you prepared to give up to save lives?
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05-17-22 23:12 #8270
Posts: 1680Yea
Originally Posted by Xpartan [View Original Post]
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05-17-22 21:15 #8269
Posts: 2006Originally Posted by Paulie97 [View Original Post]
For a conservative, voting for fascists like Trump or LE Pen even if only due to their tribal affiliations makes them at least enablers of fascism, IMHO.
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05-17-22 20:41 #8268
Posts: 1825Originally Posted by DramaFree11 [View Original Post]
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05-17-22 20:21 #8267
Posts: 1680Oh please
Originally Posted by DramaFree11 [View Original Post]
P.S. Covid of course only wants a host and couldn't care less what label you attach to yourself, whether moderate, progressive, conservative, MAGA, or the "liberal" that conservatives over time turned into a pegorative. It's the right wing nuts that have been doing most of the politicizing, and that likely cost Trump the election. And this while they have killed off an unnecessary proportion of their voters, as red states as a whole have considering higher Covid death rates than the blue.
Originally Posted by DramaFree11 [View Original Post]
Covid of course only wants a host and couldn't care less what label you attach to yourself, whether moderate, progressive, conservative, MAGA, or the "liberal" that conservatives over time turned into a pejorative. It's the right wing nuts that have been doing most of the politicizing, and that likely cost Trump the election. They've also with their obstinance effectively and unnecessarily killed off a substantial proportion of their voters, as red states as a whole have much higher Covid death rates than the blue. Thus no one should be moved when they want to go online and sling mud.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/red-bl...ry?id=83649085
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05-17-22 18:16 #8266
Posts: 2344Originally Posted by DramaFree11 [View Original Post]
Hahaha.
People who refuse to get immunized and people who refuse to wear masks are prolonging this pandemic.
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05-17-22 18:03 #8265
Posts: 3363Originally Posted by Gino02 [View Original Post]
The latest NYT belching on Covid is the same old crap. "If only we had done what South Korea had done, we would be fine. " It is like someone then told the NYT that South Korea is now #8 in cases in the world, and the latest golden child is Australia. So the NYT changes South Korea to Australia. Of course, they only talk about the Covid deaths. The harsh Australian lockdowns caused horrible emotional distress. Thing is Covid is polling in last place with regards to what people care about.
The latest Biden move is to say some 18 year old nut job who actually trashed Fox news and was in a nut house a year ago killed people in Buffalo because of free speech. Yeah, we cannot have that.
I come here because I am short the market and I need to be reminded how fucking crazy these dumb Dems are. Trump killed one million people with Covid. The election was not rigged. If you voted for Trump, you are a racist moron. We cannot have freedom of speech, the second amendment, fourth amendment nor due process. The swamp can break the law, but you better not. Going to the brink of nuclear war with a country no one really cares about is sound policy. Inflation and the supply chain issues are Trump's fault. The borders are fine. If people have to hungry because of the war in Ukraine, it is worth it for the sake of Democracy. Simply put, if it is good, it is Democrat. If it is bad, it is Republican. There is zero attempt to get to the bottom of any issue.
I have never seen a political party so devoid of ideas. I invested along side Obama and did well. Thing is with this clown Biden there I see no good arguments or policies. They are all a disaster. Yeah, the smart Dems have moved on but we do not have smart Dems here.
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05-17-22 16:52 #8264
Posts: 1604Wrong
Originally Posted by JustTK [View Original Post]
The article (which you obviously did not read) compared the US to Australia because Australia has about the same population demographic and because Australia is a "rich" country. You can blather on and on about all sorts of things yet the big determining factor was that Australians believed that their government was trying to do the right thing whereas 30+% of the US thought (and still think) that the whole thing was a big hoax or nothing more than the flu or any one of a hundred other stupid ideas. Australians, as a people, were willing to do the right thing for their fellow citizens. 30+% of Americans were not.
Sure, health care plays a part. But overrun hospitals are overrun hospitals, no matter how you slice it and no matter whether or not the country offered "single payer" healthcare.
The simple facts are that the US government "screwed the pooch" when it came to COVID response and the governmental leadership was so lacking that a million people died. "Failure of capitalism"? Hogwash.
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05-17-22 15:58 #8263
Posts: 2824Originally Posted by JustTK [View Original Post]
Now we are dealing with the ramifications from the crazy ass lockdowns, and it is not good. Now we have Shortages and major supply chain issues. Many of shortages are being ignored by the media and the government.
Either way this is not good and we need solutions quickly before this spins out of control. You guys may get your wish and nobody will have jobs and will be living off the government.
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05-17-22 15:40 #8262
Posts: 1825Originally Posted by PVMonger [View Original Post]
In 2019 Aus had 8.7 million international tourists. In 2018 NYC alone had 13.8 million international visitors. Domestic tourism accounts for 73% of total tourism revenues in Aus. It is clear that Aus is a far, far more isolated and remote destination. At 3.000 USA deaths per million (likely underreported by 25%) compared to 300 in Aus, clearly there is a major difference. Healthcare system and state of public health in general will have an effect, as would government policy. Aus imposed extremely authoritarian controls on personal freedoms, USA did not. In fact, people from the USA were just about the only regular international travellers over the past 2 years.
As much as we do not like to accept it, we all face the question. How much death are we prepared to accept in our way of life? There are countles things we could do if we changed how we all lived to reduce death, but we don't do them because we have come to accept that those deaths are tolerable. So how much is tolerable from a new disease like COVID?
Some countres that imposed very strict measures were complete failures, others that were more open did well. Government policy didn't have a clear impact across the world. I would suggest that countries could do far more by examining their public healthcare systems, and the general state of health of the population. It is clear that healthy people are far less likely to die, and even more so if they can get affordable care should they become seriously ill. To me this looks like a glaring failiure of reliance on capitalism.
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05-17-22 00:48 #8261
Posts: 5554Stark contrast in response with predictably contrasting results
Originally Posted by PVMonger [View Original Post]
He thereby not only worked harder than any other world leader, really more than any one person on the planet, to produce the Trump's Pandemic it became around the world in the first place but also more responsibly than anyone for at least 90% of the 1 million (and counting) American deaths from it so far as well as most of the subsequent global economic and Supply-Chain collapse and hyper-inflation.
It really is impossible for anyone who knows the facts to come to any other logical conclusion.
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05-16-22 22:51 #8260
Posts: 1680Well
Originally Posted by Xpartan [View Original Post]
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05-16-22 17:35 #8259
Posts: 1138Wow!
Coming to this thread after awhile, and what I see? There are still some "experts" here trying to defend Buyden collapse! Wow! Even the Democratic Party machinery moved on from this administration's failure LOL.
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05-16-22 15:22 #8258
Posts: 1604How Australia Saved Thousands of Lives While COVID Killed 1 Million Americans"
What follows is an interesting article detailing Australia's response to COVID vs the US response to COVID. Both are "rich" countries with similar population demographics. Australia's "COVID deaths per capita" are 1/10th the US death rate. Therefore, what a country does and how it's citizens view citizenship matters. The article points out how the responses differed in both countries.
The funny thing is, I know exactly how the wingnuts will respond and it will be like the idiots they are.
"How Australia Saved Thousands of Lives While COVID Killed 1 Million Americans"
If the United States had the same COVID death rate as Australia, about 900,000 lives would have been saved.
For many Americans, imagining what might have been will be painful. But especially now, at the milestone of 1 million deaths in the United States, the nations that did a better job of keeping people alive show what Americans could have done differently and what might still need to change.
Australia offers perhaps the sharpest comparisons with the American experience. Both countries are English-speaking democracies with similar demographic profiles. In Australia and in the United States, the median age is 38. Roughly 86% of Australians live in urban areas, compared with 83% of Americans.
Yet Australia's COVID death rate sits at one-tenth of America's, putting the nation of 25 million people (with around 7,500 deaths) near the top of global rankings in the protection of life.
Australia's location in the distant Pacific is often cited as the cause for its relative COVID success. That, however, does not fully explain the difference in outcomes between the two countries, since Australia has long been, like the United States, highly connected to the world through trade, tourism and immigration. In 2019,9. 5 million international tourists came to Australia.
So what went right in Australia and wrong in the United States?
It looks obvious: Australia restricted travel and personal interaction until vaccinations were widely available, then maximized vaccine uptake, prioritizing people who were most vulnerable before gradually opening up the country again.
From one outbreak to another, there were also some mistakes. And with omicron and eased restrictions, deaths have increased.
But Australia's COVID playbook produced results because of something more easily felt than analyzed at a news conference. Dozens of interviews, along with survey data and scientific studies from around the world, point to a lifesaving trait that Australians displayed from the top of government to the hospital floor and that Americans have shown they lack: trust, in science and institutions, but especially in one another.
When the pandemic began, 76% of Australians said they trusted the health care system (compared with around 34% of Americans), and 93% of Australians reported being able to get support in times of crisis from people living outside their household.
In global surveys, Australians were more likely than Americans to agree that "most people can be trusted" — a major factor, researchers found, in getting people to change their behavior for the common good to combat COVID.
But of greater import, interpersonal trust — a belief that others would do what was right not just for the individual but for the community — saved lives. Trust mattered more than smoking prevalence, health spending or form of government, a study of 177 countries in The Lancet recently found.
Government: Moving Quickly Behind the Scenes.
Greg Hunt had been Australia's health minister for a couple of years when his phone buzzed Jan. 20,2020. It was Dr. Brendan Murphy, Australia's chief medical officer, and he wanted to talk about a new coronavirus in China.
Murphy said there were worrisome signs of human-to-human transmission.
"I think this has the potential to go beyond anything we've seen in our lifetime," Murphy said. "We need to act fast. ".
The next day, Australia added the coronavirus, as a threat with "pandemic potential," to its biosecurity list, officially setting in motion the country's emergency response. Hunt briefed Prime Minister Scott Morrison, visited the country's stockpile of personal protective equipment and began calling independent experts for guidance.
The first positive case appeared in Australia on Jan. 25. Five days later, when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirmed the first human transmission of the virus in the United States, President Donald Trump downplayed the risk.
The same day, Hunt struck a more practical tone. "Border, isolation, surveillance and case-tracing mechanisms are already in place in Australia," he said.
Less than 24 hours later, on Feb. 1, Australia closed its border with China, its largest trading partner. On Feb. 3, 241 Australians were evacuated from China and placed in government quarantine for 14 days.
A full border closure followed. Hotels were contracted to quarantine the trickle of international arrivals allowed in. Systems for free testing and contact tracing were rolled out, along with a federal program that paid COVID-affected employees so they would stay home.
Health Care: Sharing the Burden.
The outbreak that many Australians see as their country's greatest COVID test began in late June 2020, with a breakdown in Melbourne's hotel quarantine system. The virus spread into the city and its suburbs from guards interacting with travelers, a government inquiry later found, and within a few weeks, daily case numbers climbed into the hundreds.
At Royal Melbourne, a public hospital built to serve the poor, clusters of infection emerged among vulnerable patients and workers.
"We recognized right away that this was a disaster we'd never planned for, in that it was a marathon, not a sprint," said Chris Macisaac, Royal Melbourne's director of intensive care.
In mid-July, dozens of patients with COVID were transferred from nursing homes to Royal Park, a satellite facility for geriatric care and rehabilitation. Soon, more than 40% of the cases among workers were connected to that small campus.
Kirsty Buising, an infectious disease consultant at the hospital, began to suspect — before scientists could prove it — that the coronavirus was airborne. In mid-July, on her suggestion, Royal Melbourne started giving N95 masks to workers exposed to COVID patients.
In the United States, hospital executives were lining up third-party PPE vendors for clandestine meetings in parking lots. Royal Melbourne's supplies came from federal and state stockpiles, with guidelines for how distribution should be prioritized.
In New York, a city of 8 million people packed closely together, more than 300 health care workers died from COVID by the end of September, with huge disparities in outcomes for patients and workers from one hospital to another.
In Melbourne, a city of 5 million with a dense inner core surrounded by suburbs, the masks, a greater separation of patients and an intense 111-day lockdown that reduced demand on hospital services brought the virus to heel. At Royal Melbourne, not a single worker died during Australia's worst institutional cluster to date.
Society: Complying and Caring.
When Australians are asked why they accepted the country's many lockdowns, its once-closed international and state borders, its quarantine rules and then its vaccine mandates for certain professions or restaurants and large events, they tend to voice a version of the same response: It's not just about me.
The idea that one's actions affect others is not unique to Australia, and at times, the rules on COVID stirred up outrage.
"It was a somewhat authoritarian approach," said Dr. Greg Dore, an infectious diseases expert at the University of New South Wales in Sydney. "There were lots of mandates, lots of fines for breaching restrictions, pretty heavy-handed controlling, including measures that were pretty useless, like the policing of outdoor masking."
But, he added, the package was effective because the vast majority of Australians stuck with it anyway.
"The community coming on board and remaining on board through the tough periods of 2020 and even into 2021 was really, really important," Dore said.
Now, more than 95% of Australian adults are fully vaccinated — with 85% of the total population having received two doses. In the United States, that figure is only 66%.
The arrival of the omicron variant, which is more transmissible, has sent Australia's case numbers soaring, but with most of the population inoculated, deaths are ticking up more slowly.
"We learned that we can come together very quickly," said Denise Heinjus, Royal Melbourne's executive director for nursing, whose title in 2020 was COVID commander. "There's a high level of trust among our people."
The source of the article is the NYT which will cause the wingnut crown to lose what little minds they have. https://news.yahoo.com/australia-sav...120039853.html.
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05-16-22 14:11 #8257
Posts: 1825Originally Posted by EihTooms [View Original Post]