Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[PedroMorales]

Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.

Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.

The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.

Russia has a no first strike priviso. Rusaisa should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.

[Elvis 2008]

Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Yeah, the good guy-bad guy narrative is too easy for me. Usually when there is a fight both parties could have stopped it, but your story prompted me to go look at what the Russian side was so thank you for that.

Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.

I am more of a couch guy and am comfortable as can be. Sorry, my morality meter does not kick in unless the good guys are being killed and I am not sure there are any good guys yet. Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation or was a new crew employed this time to say how awful Putin was?

If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.

Helpless little old lady? Nah, it turns out Biden and the Ukrainians were not as helpless and innocent as that. Later on, you asked a question if I am a military expert? And I am not. That ranks us up there with having to be a biologist to know what a woman is, but it shows the point. If I am on your side, then I can be anything, but if I am neutral based on a lack of understanding of both sides, well that ranks up there with being a stupid coward.

You should know both sides of the conflict: give me both sides perspective and then say why yours is right. Instead, you went with name calling and shaming. That tells me there are issues with your POV you do not want to talk about.

All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.

Sorry, guy, you are just making stuff up. If you want me to go to war, you have to show me you are all in. I am not going to war when our government has policies that enrich the enemy shooting at me Fuck that. With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me. That you acted hostile when I said that made it doubly bad.

The USA has a great history when it goes all in on a war. When it goes in half ass, trouble always follows. If you had said during World War 2, you did not want companies drilling for oil because of what it does to the planet, you would have gotten your ass kicked. The entire notion that Putin is bad but climate change is worse tells me this is not a real war where our way of life is threatened, not at all.

I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.

Yeah, you lost me there. If you feel that way, you should get out of your Lazy-Boy, pick up a gun and go fight. You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.

[Jojosun]

A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.

No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!

Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.

There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.

Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.

As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.

https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-...n-nuclear-iran

And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.

Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...2-7ffb49550000.

The links to David Fisher and his Film The Round Number. " David Fisher was born to Joseph Fischer (born in Romania) and Mali (born in Ukraine), both Holocaust survivors".

https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-new-...the-holocaust/

[Jojosun]

A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.

No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!

Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.

There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.

Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.

As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.

https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-...n-nuclear-iran

And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.

Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...2-7ffb49550000.

[Golfinho]

Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

In fairness to the Poles, as their lands were designated as primary part of the Pale of Settlement, they were forced into closest proximity of these people, and while they endured the sufferance inflicted upon them, a peoples' forebearance and rectitude could only be expected to go so far.

As for Ukrainians, missing from the current conversation is any mention of the Hiwis. How in the world could the nazis have managed the camps without their indispensable Ukrainian helpers? Many of whom post-war resettled to Canada or became industrial workers in Ohio. Given that a number of the mercenary freedom fighters in Ukraine currently hail from Canada you can readily imagine what wonderful stories from their grandparents they grew up on.

[Jmsuttr]

My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have.

Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.

https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/c...aine-genocide/

If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.

My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.

And my counter-point is that ALL you've offered is purely PERSONAL opinion, nothing more. Period. Are you a military expert? Are you referencing the analyses of any credible experts? All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.

But, as I responded to your earlier mindlessly meandering post (the one without the fentanyl and Matt Taibi references), you're perfectly entitled to your own OPINION, as is every other poster in this forum. What you're not entitled to, and what I'll call you out on every time, is pretending that it's anything else.

BTW, I would also like the war to stop ASAP. I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.

Same goal, different opinion about how to get there.

[Xpartan]

First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.

Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

Well, now you know. There are no innocents when it comes to atrocities against Jews in Eastern Europe. In almost every country occupied by the Nazis during the WW2, the local population was more than happy to join in on the fun. Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, you name it.

The question is if your history lessons are applicable to contemporary Ukraine.

The answer any sane person would come up with IMHO. No, they aren't. Today's Ukrainians have nothing to do with it.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .

Well, I would take an issue with "vast majority" but yes, a lot of Poles remain deeply anti-Semitic. Ukraine also used to be very anti-Semitic during the Soviet times, but times have changed. 73% Ukrainians did vote for a Jewish President. That accounts for something. Hey, you don't have to be a Pole or Ukrainian to be a vicious anti-Semite. Look at our own Merdo Immorales, what else do you need?

What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.

It has everything to do with Germany. If you believe that Ukrainians must be held responsible for the atrocities committed 80-100 years ago, then how come you don't treat today's Germans with the same contempt? They did murder 6 million Jews after all.

So my question is DO YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE that Ukraine must be held responsible for something that happened back then.

So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??

Israel is in a difficult position. It's a tiny nation completely surrounded by enemies. Russia has troops stationed in Syria, and it could make life incredibly difficult to Israel. And not in terms of gas prices, mind you, but the blood of Israeli citizens. If there is one country on Earth that has legitimate reasons to avoid being pulled into this conflict, that's Israel.

[PedroMorales]

If you read David Ben Gurion's (real name of Israel's founder is David Grün) autobiography, you will see the founder of Israel, a war criminal by any definition, stating it was he and his fellow Jewish thugs who attacked Poles in an area with no anti-Semitism. The founders of Israel's (Mandate Palestine's) Irgun had 30,000+ armies of Jewish fascists in pre war Poland. Their leaders were trained by Mussolini's Italy.

Get your facts on Israel some way right. The 1st Galician SS, drawn from Western Ukraine, were so bloody in killing Jews they shocked the SS.

As did the Croats, whom you praise. They slaughtered the Serbs. The same Serbs. Your USAF bombed relentlessly for months on end.

You are ignorant on all that as you draw your sources from the Atlantic and similar tainted sites. You and it are part of the reason no American should be allowed in Europe, except as an exhibit in a zoo.

As regards the monkey Zelensky who plays the piano with his penis, his shelf life shortens by the day as the heroic Russian forces make further advances. English folk are at the Glastonbury Music Festival June 22-26. Instead of music, they have to listen to that idiot. Then they wonder why no minority groups go there.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .

What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...-historic-vote.

[Elvis 2008]

LOL. You do not get it. The American POW knew Germany had lost the war because they had no money. That is just as applicable today as then.

Here are the facts. Oil has gone up in price since the invasion. The Russian ruble is stronger than it was before the invasion, and Russia is exporting as much oil as before the invasion. A press release came out and said that USA oil production was the highest ever under the Biden administration. That is a good sign right? Uh, no, peak production was 12.9 million BPD under Trump and is 11.5 now. Under the Biden administration, that amount of oil produced is the most that has been produced. It is not the most the USA has ever produced. Cute eh?

Matt Taibbi is one writer I trust who worked in Russia in the 90's. He thought Putin was a tin pot brutal dictator long before anyone else. Back then, when he tried to write articles about how Russia was recirculating its dictators, no one would publish the article. If he wrote an article about how well Democracy was working in Russia, everyone would publish it. Point is I do not expect any press articles about the sanctions in the Western Press except saying how great they are working. I saw a pictorial / video of the McDonald's being re-opened in Russia under a new name in the WSJ, and it does not look like the Russians are hurting exactly because of the sanctions.

Fentanyl is illegal in the USA, and China has a history of making it and the government said they would crack down on said production, yet it is still being sold, and USA deaths from it have never been higher. What critical components these days are not made or could not be made in China? And do you think China is really not going to sell the Russians what they need? Chips are not a good example because they are in short supply everywhere.

EU Candidate status? Really? That sounds meaningless. I am reading stuff like this.

Biden said he "knew we had data to sustain" that Russian President Vladimir Putin "was going to go in, off the border."

"There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn't want to hear it, nor did a lot of people," Biden said, according to Bloomberg. "I understand why they didn't want to hear it, but Putin went in."

Ukrainian officials, however, rejected Biden's account.

End of quote. That sounds like typical pol finger pointing when things are not going well.

As for my POV, my question is where? Show me anyone who said you win the war in Ukraine by drilling for more oil in Texas? If America produces more oil and the price goes down, we have more money and Russia has less. That is a much more effective way to hurt Russia than sanctions.

I do not know enough about what is really going on in the negotiations to have an opinion on if there is a realistic settlement offer on the table to stop but my preference would be the war stop ASAP. I think Ukraine winning this war as some pols have said is not realistic. My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have. My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.

[Jojosun]

First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.

Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.

I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.

A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.

And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .

What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...-historic-vote

So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??

Here's what some commentators in Israel are saying "The prime minister's 'neutrality' in the Russian war against Ukraine is outrageous" https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-703432.

And Zelensky who also has family in Israel singled out Israel. . https://www.jta.org/2022/06/23/globa...against-russia.

[Xpartan]

2 Interesting books look back at Ukraine's Past.

https://us.macmillan.com/books/97812...ivilizedeurope

"Between 1918 and 1921, over a hundred thousand Jews were murdered in Ukraine by peasants, townsmen, and soldiers who blamed the Jews for the turmoil of the Russian Revolution. In hundreds of separate incidents, ordinary people robbed their Jewish neighbors with impunity, burned down their houses, ripped apart their Torah scrolls, sexually assaulted them, and killed them. Largely forgotten today, these pogromsethnic riotsdominated headlines and international affairs in their time. Aid workers warned that six million Jews were in danger of complete extermination. Twenty years later, these dire predictions would come true.

Drawing upon long-neglected archival materials, including thousands of newly discovered witness testimonies, trial records, and official orders, acclaimed historian Jeffrey Veidlinger shows for the first time how this wave of genocidal violence created the conditions for the Holocaust".

The other Historian https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02...yr-viatrovych/.

The Historian Whitewashing Ukraine's Past.

Volodymyr Viatrovych is erasing the country's racist and bloody history stripping pogroms and ethnic cleansing from the official archives.

There you have it, both sides of the History of Ukraine.

In the meantime in Israel "This week, the veteran right-wing journalist Andrew Neil tweeted "Israel fails to stand up for Ukraine. Reluctant to impose sanctions Stayed silent after Russian airstrike near Babi Yar memorial, where German Nazis killed tens of thousands of Jews in WW2". https://inews.co.uk/opinion/israel-f...ot-be-ignored-.

So their ancestors did some truly shitty things 100 years ago. Let me give you a hand here. It wasn't the first time. Bogdan Khmelnitsky and his hordes massacred Jews as far back as in 16th century.

And Ukrainians did it again during the WW2.

So your point being is what? That they deserve what's coming to them now, in 2022?

What's your take on today's Germany?

[Xpartan]

You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.

Back down from what, you ignoramus? Russia was so confident that Japanese "wouldn't dare" that Nicolas promised to pelt them with Russian hats. Not unlike the current tsar, he tried to raise Russian nationalism by taking on a supposedly weaker opponent. That arrogance eventually ended in a cellar of a private house in Siberia with him and all his family buchered by bolsheviks.

[Jmsuttr]

To begin with, I'm certainly not an expert on nuclear deterrence, but I have lived through the Cold War years, with fallout shelters, duck and cover drills, and all that.

So feel free to correct me if I make any substantially incorrect statements, but it's my understanding that both the US and Russia have enough nuclear capability to obliterate the other. Sure, there might be survivors in remote areas or in hardened shelters, but (if either side desired it) they could destroy pretty much everything that made the other's society viable. I don't know if the terminology has changed, but I recall that being described as Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD).

Also, as I understand it, a significant portion of each side's nuclear arsenal is either mobile (submarine, ship, aircraft) or housed in facilities that would be resistant to being taken out in a first strike. I'm sure there might be other retaliative capabilities, but those are all I need to make my point.

And the point is simply this: Neither side can know with certainty that: a) The other side wouldn't respond; and, b) The other side couldn't respond. They might think the probability is low, or high, or something in between, but they can't know for sure.

So let's assume there are people on both sides who are more hawkish than others. Let's say Russia has some hawks who might be willing to risk launching a first strike. Well, at the moment of launch, it becomes irrelevant how many hawks are on the US side because retaliation becomes a defensive imperative. In other words, the reasons for not launching a first-strike pretty much disappear when you're retaliating against an attacker. And, unless a Russian (or US) hawk can guarantee they can take out each and every nuclear-capable asset of the other, they've essentially condemned both sides to the same fate.

Let's take it one step further. Assume there are some intelligent people in the chain of command on both sides. It's my argument that, for those people, an order to launch a first strike, when your own existence is not being threatened, is the same as an order to kill your own family, hometown, and society. Faced with such an order, why wouldn't the intelligent person refuse to comply? Even if threatened with death, they're dead either way. My personal response would be something like, "If you want to destroy humanity, and our country, I can't stop you. But I'm not going to be the one to do it!" and there's no incentive I can think of that would change that calculus. And this isn't something you can practice. Sure, you can have drills and readiness exercises, but nothing prepares people for the real thing as it's like putting a gun against your own head (and the head of your wife, kids, etc.) AND pulling the trigger when you really want to continue living.

While there's no way to know for sure, there's a huge uncertainty when it comes to the human factor if a first-strike order was to be given. And it's that very uncertainty that is woven throughout the fabric of MAD.

Ah, but what about tactical nukes? There's certainly an argument that can be made about differences there. But what if one tactical nuke is responded to with another, and then a tit-for-tat ensues that leads to escalation and back to the MAD scenario? Once again, uncertainty rears its ugly head.

And isn't uncertainty therefore the fundamental problem that no amount of bravado and chest-thumping (or planning) can overcome? It doesn't matter how big or strong or loud (or clever) someone is, playing Russian Roulette with a gun that has all cylinders full will still have the predictable result. But wait, do we know for sure how many bullets are in the gun? Answer: No, we don't. And there's no way we can know with certainty. Are you still willing to pull that trigger?

I'll close with that, and open the floor to debate. Although I'm sure there will be some who won't be interested in rational debate. But that's to be expected.

[Paulie97]

This is an excellent post Elvis.

This twerp chases down every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, from Covid to stolen election nonsense. For you to hit your knees is an embarrassment, but hit it Bro, and be sure to swallow the cum when you're finished. What servile wuss.

[Jmsuttr]

You replied to confirms me in my belief that no American should be allowed into Europe (or anywhere else) on any pretext. The poor thing, in its ignorance, attacks the Bolsheviks for pulling out of WW1. The pity is that all others did not too and let the top brass get on with it. The Americans, filth that they are, came lately in both wars just to rob what they could.

Hopefully, beginning with the obliteration of Lithuania, the Yanks will get payback for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and the firebombing of Tokyo, to say nothing of the overdue bills on Vietnam and Korea). The old saying, don't pick up a weapon if you are not prepared to use it, applies to nukes as well. Hopefully, the Yanks like the smell of nuclear mushroom clouds in the morning. Let them wonder if it smells like victory.

Shall we call you a WAAAH-mbulance?

What's truly hilarious is that, no matter how much you post about your Russian propaganda wet-dreams, reality keeps marching merrily along, laughing at you and farting in your face as it passes you by.