Thread: Stupid Shit in Kyiv
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04-06-23 05:26 #1867
Posts: 516Get every last bit of Russian cancer completely the fuck out of Ukraine!
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]
Russian soldiers the fuck out of Ukraine. Russian cancerous influences the fuck out of Ukraine. THEN some semblance of normalcy can start to return.
P.S. What a clown-car farce it is to criticize Ukraine for things Russia has been doing for decades, and on a much larger scale. Why don't you ask the young Russian girl who is being put into foster care, and her father arrested, because she drew an anti-war picture in school? Oh, yeah! Russia's a real model of openness and tolerance, right?
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04-06-23 04:44 #1866
Posts: 1680Well
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
"Ukraine is a sovereign, independent nation. And every sovereign, independent nation has the right to choose its own path, including what kind of security arrangements it wants to be part of. So it is up to Ukraine and 30 allies to decide when Ukraine is ready to join the alliance," Stoltenberg said during a NATO meeting in Riga, Latvia.
Russia has no veto, no right to interfere in that process," Stoltenberg said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/bide...-it-means.html
Damn straight. Russia wants veto power in the matter but has NONE. NATO isn't NATO anymore if they assent to such absurdity. Putin's demand was ridiculous and he knew it would be rejected, thus giving himself the green light to do what he wanted to do, and to continue reversing post Cold War border and security agreements that he's been stewing about for 30 years.
Elvis I don't think you are a bad guy, but need to get out of your far right vaccum and expand your reading list. No one is 100% objective as the human condition prevents it. We all bring baggage to the table, but truth is better dechiphered by reading a range of sources, right, left and center, while extremes on the spectrum are usually only useful for comedy. Like the stolen election hogwash, that Carlson, Hannity, and Ingraham all knew was nonsense, as proven by their text messages.
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04-06-23 04:22 #1865
Posts: 1340A pathway to democracy: Banned: languages, opposition parties, opposition mass media, exit out of the country, church. All checked.
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04-05-23 22:39 #1864
Posts: 516Thoughts from a real General (ret) about the coming Ukrainian offensive
https://mickryan.substack.com/p/the-...ian-offensives
No armchair in sight. It's most definitely his own opinion, nothing more, but he has expertise and experience that regular schmucks (myself included) will never have. He's pro-Ukraine, but that doesn't invalidate the facts he presents and observations he makes. People are free to disagree or debate the issues, but they should do so on the basis of countervailing facts and competing arguments.
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04-05-23 22:27 #1863
Posts: 516Better Quote of the Day: Russian Imperialists, Go Fuck Yourselves!
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]
Putin is essentially saying "I want to possess Ukraine. Let me have it or I will rattle my nuclear (WW-III, OMG!) saber". The problem with giving in to such blackmail is that the blackmailer has no incentive to stop. In fact, showing weakness actually incentivizes the blackmailer to keep going. So the next demand could be Poland, or Latvia, or another (fill in the blank) country.
No one in the West is playing the nuclear brinkmanship game. It's all coming from Little Vlad. Which means only he can unilaterally stop it. The West has a choice between displaying weakness or strength. From Putin's past behavior, we know he despises weakness and respects only strength. Not really a difficult call to make, IMO.
Also, the elephant in the room is Russia's newly acquired master, China. From the CCP's various statements, it's rather clear that any nuclear transgression would incur China's wrath. Russia would, at a minimum, likely forfeit China's support. The last thing China wants is nuclear instability and proliferation, as Japan and Korea would almost certainly move to develop their own nukes.
To use your own imagery, allowing Putin to dictate the terms of the nuclear debate would be like letting the inmates run the asylum. Putin could certainly benefit from some ("Here, Vlad, bite down on this") electro-shock therapy.
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04-05-23 21:39 #1862
Posts: 516The blame for the horrible disaster lies squarely on LilliPutin, no one else.
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]
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04-05-23 21:32 #1861
Posts: 516Depends on your definition of provoke, doesn't it?
Originally Posted by Elvis2008 [View Original Post]
Russians have already conjured up enough "provocation" to justify their military aggressions against Georgia and Moldova. And anyone paying attention will have noticed they have ready-made "provocations" against Poland and the Baltics that can be taken off the shelf and used when needed.
Any clown can say that they "feel threatened," but the proof of whether a true threat exists depends on an assessment of objective facts.
Objective Fact #1: Ukraine has never posed a military threat to Russia. Had Ukraine ever attempted military action against Russia they would have received zero support from the West. They also would have been trounced by Russia since, as the current war demonstrates, it's much harder to attack than it is to defend.
Objective Fact #2: NATO posed zero offensive threat to Russia. Not only is NATO defensive in nature and by charter, but it would take unanimous consent of all 30 (now 31) members before an offensive action (against anyone) would be approved. Before the Feb 24th invasion, because several NATO members were friendly to Russia (Hungary, Germany, France, etc.), not only would Russia have had advance notice of any significant developments but any single one of those (formerly) friendly nations would have had veto power they could exercise.
Objective Fact #3: The myth of so-called promises re NATO expansion has been debunked by no less than Mikhail Gorbachev, himself. He stated in an interview that discussions on that topic centered on German reunification and the territory of former East Germany. And, not only was there no formal agreement on that subject, during Yeltsin's tenure Russia was even contemplating joining NATO. So the about-face and demonization of NATO is a feature of Putinism and his need to find excuses for his own aggression abroad and repression at home.
Oh yeah, and your entire post ignores the agency of Little Vlad, himself. Nobody forced him to order the invasion. Prior to Feb 24th he had all kinds of diplomatic and geopolitical cards he could have played, all from a position of strength. Now he's flushed every one of those options down the toilet and is no longer the master of his own (and Russia's) fate.
And you've also pointedly denied agency to the Ukrainian people, who simply want to keep their land, prevent their women from being raped and their children from being kidnapped, and to stay alive.
But sure, it's all the USA's fault, isn't it?
P.S. As to the future, unlike some I don't pretend to have a crystal ball. But I'd simply note how many "expert" predictions have already been proven wrong. And how many surprising turns of events (rapid NATO accession for Finland, EU decoupling from Russian energy supplies, etc.), have come to pass. So, if I had to place a bet, it'd be on a Ukrainian future as part of the EU (for sure) and NATO (likely). And I'd lay long odds on Russia becoming a vassal state of China, just a bit higher than North Korea in the pecking order.
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04-05-23 15:46 #1860
Posts: 690Take me to your leader
I'm Gort. I can destroy your planet.
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04-05-23 11:08 #1859
Posts: 361The Real Ostrich
Originally Posted by Questner [View Original Post]
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04-05-23 05:23 #1858
Posts: 1680Yep
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
But fuck, I covered all this a year ago and at least twenty times since then so I'm taking a very long vacation from the discussion. And fact is I'm a South America guy so likely will never make it to Kyiv, as far as the other thread goes. Though I'll never say never. Wink.
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04-05-23 03:47 #1857
Posts: 1680Facts
Originally Posted by Jmsuttr [View Original Post]
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04-05-23 03:47 #1856
Posts: 1340Quote of the day, 'To paraphrase former Secretary of Defense Bob Gates, any American president or politician who is willing to risk a high-end conventional land war with Russia should have his head examined, or at a minimum, deserves serious psychiatric care. The same must be said of anyone in Washington who wants to engage in nuclear brinksmanship with Moscow. '.
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04-05-23 03:40 #1855
Posts: 1340Originally Posted by ReinerOtto [View Original Post]
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04-05-23 00:04 #1854
Posts: 2041Originally Posted by Beijing4987 [View Original Post]
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04-05-23 00:02 #1853
Posts: 3372Originally Posted by Locamotive [View Original Post]
https://www.cc.com/video/y1wxc3/the-...sis-in-ukraine
https://rumble.com/v1m0df8-the-colbe...-02242014.html
The guest on the Colbert report, back when Steven Colbert was funny, even said we wanted to prevent Russia from attacking Ukraine. So fear of provoking a Russian invasion was present back in 2014 and the soothing words to keep back an invasion apparently were no longer spoken. Biden said to Putin he would not rule out Ukraine joining NATO, and Russia invaded shortly after that.
Matt Taibbi, one of the few journalists I trust, has said that there are now two parties in Washington. They are not Republican and Democrat but pro-war and anti-war. Trump and Bernie Sanders are anti-war and HRC and Biden are in the pro-war party. If you are in the antiwar party, you can expect what Trump got today and what Bernie Sanders got in the primaries.
The setup is the same. Build up a guy or guys to be the epitome of evil. And then give the military industrial complex trillions to knock him out of power and watch as things get even worse in said country. We have seen this movie before with Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, and the Taliban. And anyone who objects to that money being spent on this nonsense abroad is told, "What is a matter with you, you love Hussein, Gaddafi, the Taliban, or Putin?
And you are right. The Ukrainian people will suffer the same fate as those in Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan while the military industrial complex lines its pockets. If you oppose them, well, you end up dead like JFK or charged like Trump. Biden was building up for war on literally the first day he was in office.