Thailand Lounge and Chat area

[XXL]

Hell, it's all I can do to even rent long term. I prefer to live in hotels if I can help it, ie outside high season when hotel prices remain affordable. Being able to live in hotels like I was on a never-ending holiday is what I like about Thailand. Note that if you want to throw your lot in financially with Thailand to a certain extent yet remain mobile and liquid, buying Thai stocks is an option.

[TConor]

Do you recommend buying or renting a condo? I hope to retire there next year. I have found a condo in an area of phuket for sale for $120,000 usd and for rent for $520 a month. I like the idea of owning. What has been your experiences and what is your advice?

Thanks.

It's a no brainer. At that rate with constant currency exchange, it's a deal. My rent and living expenses have decreased as the rest of the world keeps complaining about inflation. But that's because I have been on the right side of the dollar. I know past performance does not predict future performance, but the baht over long periods is volatile compared with the dollar. When it is at an exchange rate you can live with, load up the boat (your Thai bank account) with 2 to 5 years' worth of expenses. If the baht gets even weaker, just use your credit cards or continue to bring small amounts of dollars over and save your 5-year nest egg in the Thai bank. Banks here actually pay interest.

That's the numbers argument. Now let's say your neighborhood changes (and it will) or you have other problems, landlord, maintenance, neighbors, government, health problems, immigration issues. OMG what is a bunch of Russians (or God forbid Chinese) move in next door! If things go south here, economy wise, and you can find another sweetheart deal, or you just get bored and want to move to say Chiang Mai or an island. You have little or no ties to prevent you. Trying to sell can be a *****. This is not Kansas my friend. I am sure you will get opposing views especially from those who made the mistake of buying and they have to man up and defend their decision. Remember they also may not be subject to the US tax code. As the saying goes UP TO YOU. Oh, and buy a diesel truck or car, the government subsidies the price of fuel because of the farmers and you milage is very good with these newer models.

$520 (less that 18,000 baht) is really good and depending where you are in the States $120,000. 00 seems cheap, cheap, cheap. But if you really are serious, rent for a year or two and then buy if that's your thing. As you may think, I pay rent, and not to a Thai. Especially not to a Thai who is not living near me. If renting you don't want to rent with an absentee landlord, if at all possible, my landlord is a farang married to a Thai. When things need to be done to the property or any issues arise with water, electricity, internet, etc. He is here to aid in fixing what need to be fixed or whatever. Some of the buyers you may hear from may have a Thai wife or GF to help get things done when only speaking Thai is essential.

[Horatio]

Do you recommend buying or renting a condo? I hope to retire there next year. I have found a condo in an area of phuket for sale for $120,000 usd and for rent for $520 a month. I like the idea of owning. What has been your experiences and what is your advice?

Thanks.

[Golfinho]

[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[RakSopheni]

Mongering is about the lower half, with some invocation of the "girlfriend experience", because people maybe don't want to convince themselves that actually it's really exchange of access to genitalia for money, with mutual agreement. And sure, both might enjoy some parts of it, why not, but it's not in any way an emotional connection but based on material promise.

In the US- the phenomenon can be seen in men of great means marrying a first wife to procreate, and then a second, and third for sexual pleasure. It's still not as common to find wealthy men with mistresses- although it does happen.

The one or two times I found myself in a "girlfriend experience" I couldn't fully convince myself of the fantasy and it really just made me feel like a loser. I'd rather pay someone for sex than to go to the fucking park and look at the sunset. For some guys (mostly the Seeking Arrangement crowd), this is all they want and it appears they are able to somehow suspend disbelief. Similarly I don't get the OF thing- so apparently there are plenty guys out there that are seeking some sort of emotional connection.

The more I monger, the less emotional it becomes. You become friends with these girls on social media and see all the shenanigans they pull. It's really hard to take them seriously and get hurt by them- but that's totally fine. Lurking on FB I see guys go to Pattaya, fall "in love", try to wife up a Soi 6 girl and take them back to Scotland or to meet their teenage kids and just shake my head.

[ZenMinded1]

what seems to be a trend is that mongers are joining the club at younger and younger ages, suggesting that a more "healthy" way of doing things is becoming increasingly impossible even for younger guys. What could be to blame for this other than the social trends that I point towards? Please let me know.

I'll speak anecdotally here but invoke a parallel with how normalized it is in Far East to have a wife (caretaker of house, mother of children) and a mistress or several (caretacker basically of the man). Man is responsible, in theory, in both of those words. Taking care of family on one side and his mistress on the other, while at the same time having all his needs met.

Mongering is about the lower half, with some invocation of the "girlfriend experience", because people maybe don't want to convince themselves that actually it's really exchange of access to genitalia for money, with mutual agreement. And sure, both might enjoy some parts of it, why not, but it's not in any way an emotional connection but based on material promise.

So maybe, in era where each need can be satisfied with a few clicks, brains (younger but also older) separate "complicated" relationships involving love and long term, with simply scracthing an itch in a one-hour or one-ight fantasy? The danger zone, and fertile ground for book writers, of course, is becoming confused between the two.

[RakSopheni]

What it really comes down to is you've identified your own mentality, situation and feelings of worthlessness -- nothing more, nothing less.

Sure, could be. Or it's worth investigating how broad social trends are manifest in behaviors such as mongering. I will admit there are many motivations for mongering, and usually I don't feel myself to be acting out to avoid the negative emotions described- more for the simple pursuit of pleasure- but I think there is something to the observation that American men are turning away from what is being offered in the conventional dating arena and seeking validation elsewhere.

Once I hit middle age, the kind of slim hotties that I could score as a civilian even in my early forties and late thirties were just no longer available. Either these girls got old and started to look bad, or I didn't have the very high status and wealth that would enable such an arrangement. Upon discovering the international mongering scene and the quality sex that I could find, the break was complete- there's really no way I can even feign interest in American civilian women, and am priced out of high quality working girls in my own country. This is a fairly common story and alone does not seem remarkable, but what seems to be a trend is that mongers are joining the club at younger and younger ages, suggesting that a more "healthy" way of doing things is becoming increasingly impossible even for younger guys. What could be to blame for this other than the social trends that I point towards? Please let me know.

[Golfinho]

I think it really comes down to
The Western man is freer, but more lonely. Since the advent of the sexual revolution and the rise of Feminism, the Western man's psyche has dissolved into an irretrievable state of alienation and chronic anomie characterized by feelings of worthlessness, shame, disgust, despair, and rage. Mongering is a type of palliative but the relief is incomplete and fleeting. The negative emotions return quickly once the high wears off. Generally speaking, I do not sense this type of compulsive and tragic motivation in Eastern men

What it really comes down to is you've identified your own mentality, situation and feelings of worthlessness -- nothing more, nothing less.

[ZenMinded1]

I think it really comes down to the individual versus the collective. One of the more striking images I have in recent memory is sitting one late afternoon on Freelancer Corner in Angeles City watching the steady stream of mongers go by. It's just as rare to see a lone Korean monger as it is to see a Western monger in a group greater than 2. Old world societies (Korea, India, etc) are homosocial- meaning that the genders are still segregated. The idea of "romantic" love is much more present in the Western world because of this focus on finding one's self in an intimate partnership rather than as a defined by group membership or within concepts of "dharma" (duty).

The Western man is freer, but more lonely. Since the advent of the sexual revolution and the rise of Feminism, the Western man's psyche has dissolved into an irretrievable state of alienation and chronic anomie characterized by feelings of worthlessness, shame, disgust, despair, and rage. Mongering is a type of palliative but the relief is incomplete and fleeting. The negative emotions return quickly once the high wears off. Generally speaking, I do not sense this type of compulsive and tragic motivation in Eastern men who still occupy a society in which their roles are central and intact and still experience reverence and respect from women and society at large.

If anything the Indian monger is even more group motivated than the K-Monger and probably even more transactional and disinterested in GFE. Indian men have very little to no contact with members of the opposite sex and are often awkward and rude to the ladies. Add to this that the Western world seems to be a bit more tolerant to the idea of Brits and Aussies returning with a Thai girlfriend or wife even if there is much whispering and clucking behind the back. An Indian family would never accept this.

Thanks for sharing thoughts, this is really interesting to read and sounds like you've thought it through. Any good books that cover this perhaps you'd advise to pick up?

I also keep thinking what are Western men running away from and why when they come over here they usually end up with that 1000 mile stare instead of happiness. And also how Eastern men seem to have it all more together yet seem so unable to express themselves (or maybe that's why they appear so composed?

[SiamMan]

Great report. I see the shit the same as the Koreans do. I am the customer. I notice a lot of mongers on ISG see it as they need to please the hooker and kowtow to her and get in her good graces even though they are paying. If they are not trying to please them by buying lady drinks then when they get in the bedroom they are trying to please them there. And it is really funny to me to see western guys dragging their hooker down the street by her hand. Never see this with the East Asian guys.

I agree, up to a point. As a customer, it's the same as with any interaction with a provider of a service in any service industry. If you establish a good rapport, the provider is more inclined to give a better service. A happy hooker is more likely to make more effort to give her customer a satisfying experience. This certainly applies if one is having repeat sessions. Having said that I do agree that the more detached and unemotionally involved approach of the East Asian guys also has its place too; often resulting in some unforgettable sessions. It depends on the particular lady and what you're after at the time.

[RakSopheni]

Broadly speaking, everyone wants to nut, but different cultures go about it in a somewhat different manner.

I think it really comes down to the individual versus the collective. One of the more striking images I have in recent memory is sitting one late afternoon on Freelancer Corner in Angeles City watching the steady stream of mongers go by. It's just as rare to see a lone Korean monger as it is to see a Western monger in a group greater than 2. Old world societies (Korea, India, etc) are homosocial- meaning that the genders are still segregated. The idea of "romantic" love is much more present in the Western world because of this focus on finding one's self in an intimate partnership rather than as a defined by group membership or within concepts of "dharma" (duty).

The Western man is freer, but more lonely. Since the advent of the sexual revolution and the rise of Feminism, the Western man's psyche has dissolved into an irretrievable state of alienation and chronic anomie characterized by feelings of worthlessness, shame, disgust, despair, and rage. Mongering is a type of palliative but the relief is incomplete and fleeting. The negative emotions return quickly once the high wears off. Generally speaking, I do not sense this type of compulsive and tragic motivation in Eastern men who still occupy a society in which their roles are central and intact and still experience reverence and respect from women and society at large.

If anything the Indian monger is even more group motivated than the K-Monger and probably even more transactional and disinterested in GFE. Indian men have very little to no contact with members of the opposite sex and are often awkward and rude to the ladies. Add to this that the Western world seems to be a bit more tolerant to the idea of Brits and Aussies returning with a Thai girlfriend or wife even if there is much whispering and clucking behind the back. An Indian family would never accept this.

[Knobrm]

.So, all of this begs the question: what do Indians want? If what they want doesn't easily fit into the typical experience of a Thai sex worker, then the women will have to decide if they want to provide the service. If what they want is no different from one of the scenarios above, I'm sure they'll be accepted.

Very good analysis and summary of the differences between East Asians and Westerners, 100% aligned with my three decades of east asian experiences, mostly in China.

One differentiating factor with Indians on top of the two SEEMS to be the role of group vs individual activity, however as I also am not familiar with Indian sexual habits beyond headlines, not sure how much this can be generalized. But reading the numerous news headlines about group rapes in India, as well as observing the daily haggling of Indians as a group for the service of one woman in Pattaya (complemented by comments of girls confirming it), makes me wonder if this really is something that differentiates Indian habits from East Asians and Westerners more broadly, or just a marginal activity regardless of the broad visibility of it.

[SiamMan]

Broadly speaking, everyone wants to nut, but different cultures go about it in a somewhat different manner.
.

An excellent post. A clear and accurate summation of the different approaches and expectations of Western and East Asian cultures. Being of Western origin myself, but having lived in Thailand for a long time I can recognize both scenarios in my own experience. I have to be careful as I am still a sucker for the 'girlfriend experience', but also do appreciate the provision of good service by a skilled professional.

[Chan Chalupa]

Whether Indians will be accepted depends on whether the market can get a read on what Indians want, whether a business will cater to it, and whether they're willing to pay for it.

First, a brief aside. No disrespect to any of the groups mentioned above or below. Everything I write is written in the broadest possible generalizations, and I assume that you will understand that what I write doesn't apply to every individual in each group, but rather represents the mean average. As I don't know much about India, I'll avoid writing about it all together. That being said, here's what I do know.

Broadly speaking, everyone wants to nut, but different cultures go about it in a somewhat different manner.

A lot of Western guys, for instance, want companionship, I. E. , the girlfriend experience. Of course they want to blow their load, but they're likely to want to engage with the women, talk to them, and fall in love if only for an evening. It can be a lot of work for the women to feign emotional investment, but if they can get one of these guys on the hook, they can milk them for easy money. Although Western men might not pay as much for one night as an East Asian man would, Westerners are more likely to fall head over heels and sponsor a women for weeks or months.

This is in contrast to the majority of East Asian men who are more realistic, by which I mean they don't get involved emotionally. They generally don't seek companionship from sex workers, which is why you might see them ignoring their women while hanging out with friends. East Asians seem to understand that good friends are rare, but that these women are a dime a dozen. In this regard, East Asians simply want to party, drink, and cum. And they are happy to pay for every step in the process even if it results in a relatively larger bill. It should go without saying that the women like this--money is money after all. But they also like it because it's relatively easy to follow the scenario when everyone knows the script: sing, smile, drink, and then have sex.

The key difference for the women, therefore, is that they don't have to pretend to be emotionally invested in East Asian men. The men and women both know what they are, a John and a prostitute respectively, and this allows the women to simply do their job. This doesn't mean that they aren't nice and pleasant. Rather, it reinforces that the experience is what it is: a transaction.

If you're not convinced, think about the popularity of Karaoke, Noraebong, and KTV in East Asia. East Asian men treat women--and prostitutes in particular--as entertainment. The women sing, get the party started, pour drinks, and then fuck. And that's it. In this part of the work, gender roles are quite clearly delineated. And maybe even stricter is the relationship between business and customer. East Asians expect excellent customer service within the boudaries of the service they pay for; nothing more and nothing less. These concepts are easily represented by the fact that East Asian men don't typically pay mind to what women say. They also expect service to be done to them and thus expect the woman to lead in the bedroom. In this regard, the women are professionals who provide a service and thus its no surprise that massages, BJs, and cowgirl are the mainstays of the mongering experience in this part of the world.

As further example of the difference between cultures consider how Westerners expect a waitress to be kind, polite, and happy and then reward such behaviour with a tip. East Asians, on the other hand, place no such expectations on wait staff. Eating out isn't an emotional experience. They only expect that the food they ordered will be put on the table in a timely manner. And no tips are involved--ever. They pay for what they get and they get what they pay for. Removing the emotion from transactions makes it easier for everyone involved to do their job. Sex with a prostitute is treated in like manner by each respective culture.

So, all of this begs the question: what do Indians want? If what they want doesn't easily fit into the typical experience of a Thai sex worker, then the women will have to decide if they want to provide the service. If what they want is no different from one of the scenarios above, I'm sure they'll be accepted.

1st order of Business for our north Asian comrades (indians). They need to work on being able to Enter Mainstream Places. Hahaha. I still see them being turned away. No offense.

[Mr Enternational]

So, all of this begs the question: what do Indians want? If what they want doesn't easily fit into the typical experience of a Thai sex worker, then the women will have to decide if they want to provide the service. If what they want is no different from one of the scenarios above, I'm sure they'll be accepted.

Great report. I see the shit the same as the Koreans do. I am the customer. I notice a lot of mongers on ISG see it as they need to please the hooker and kowtow to her and get in her good graces even though they are paying. If they are not trying to please them by buying lady drinks then when they get in the bedroom they are trying to please them there. And it is really funny to me to see western guys dragging their hooker down the street by her hand. Never see this with the East Asian guys.

As far as Indian brothers being accepted, just step foot into one of the Indian discos and you will see chicks hanging from the rafters. There is no shortage of them being accepted. Just because you do not see them in the gogos or some place western mongers may frequent, does not mean they are not catered to at the places that they are hanging out. Go in front of one of the hotels where the Indian guys stay and you will see chicks outside waiting to catch one before he can walk 10 steps. And as I have said before, the chicks say they pay big money. Chicks in Jannaat go for 4000 and 5000 baht. And an Indian brother here that last posted about going there mentioned paying 5000 without batting an eye.

These are pictures from google.