Seeking Arrangements

[LshRoomer]

Hi Folks,

I will be coming to Europe for about 12 days (14 days incl transit) in June. Landing and flying back from Frankfurt. I have been reaching out to girls on SA and have been getting a decent amount of positive response so far. Positive here means they are adding me to their favorites, quite a few are chatting with me (on SA, telegram and WA) and expressed interest in meeting up when I visit their city.

Here's the dilemma: given the limited number of days, should I dedicate most of the days to visit cities with good SA potential, or should I also reserve some days to go visit FKK Clubs in Frankfurt, Cologne and Zurich?

I have never done either before. I am turned on by GFE, especially DFK. I am not into tall girls, since I am myself not very tall. I will visit FKK Sharks once for sure (the day I land). I may visit it once more the day I am leaving Europe.

Pros / Cons:

FKK Clubs sound like heaven. Surrounded by naked, hot girls IS heaven. But, these girls are probably not going to give GFE, and likely to be a hit or miss. Also likely to be tall?

SA potentials are really hot, and will likely give GFE. I can also have a connection with them over dinner, drinks etc, and may be some of them can accompany me to their local tourist spots (so that I am not alone), which sounds exciting to me. Almost like having new GFs every day. But they will be more expensive than FKK visits (not a significant concern) AND (the big one) they may or may not show up. They may or may not be good at sex. They may smell. They may be crazies. Hahaha.

Really confused. What do folks here think?

You have a decent amount of time in EU and TBH, I'm jealous! I recently traveled to Orlando for work and though there were many SA responses, the area is dead. Average girls wanted anywhere from 400-1000 to link up and every date I set flaked. Also, the escort scene is horrible. It's so bad that the guys in the Orlando forum hoard access to the UTR (under the radar) (their term, not mine) girls and actually have a gatekeeper (again, their term) system where you have to PM some dude for her digits, and then you find that she is old, a candy user, or not attractive. And if you want GFE, just forget about it. It's bait and switch 90% of the time. This is not an isolated experience. It has been my experience every time in Orlando.

Why the rant shroomer? Because you are about to go to a place where none of what I just mentioned will plague you. The escorts are good and reliable (still do your homework), FKKs are awesome if you don't make noob mistakes. SA is wonderful with pretty EU spinners that are ready to meet (some countries are more willing than others. Cultural differences / norms). When I'm in Europe I have to juggle meetups so much that I end up not being able to sample all the ice cream that I set up for tasting. At this point in my mongering, I juggle the other meets around my main SB, that's more like a GF than an sb.

GFE. Yes. That's why you are here. With SA, RTFF and don't fall into some of the pits that the girls will lure you into. A quick 1, 2, don't do: 1. Don't ever ever ever give an allowance for coffee dates. You f it up for the rest of us and disturb the standard. 2. Don't pay for time. Some girls will say 300 euro for 3 hours. That's more than likely an escort trying to cut her losses. SA. Expect GFE. If you are not getting it, something is wrong. You should not even be at her / your place if you haven't had GF / BF moments with kisses and gropes or at least suggestive behavior.

Doing touristy stuff. SBs usually love this kind of stuff. I have done all kinds of stuff with SBs to absorb my time. From doing Muay thai in the park, to chilling in the Beer Spa in Prague. Just remember. Eggs. Baskets. You get it.

Where should you dedicate you time? Create potential. Set up SBs wherever you intend to go, ready to meet, chomping at the bit so you have options. For example, set them up in Frankfurt, Cologne, and Zurich and go to those cities. Enjoy their FKKs and their SBs. Remember dates will fall through. I haven't had a girl that smells, but I've heard the stories. Also, it's not an escort, so she might be inexperienced with sex. Teach her and tell her what to do, she will listen. On the flakiness, a good backup can save a night. I had an SB in Prague one time that seemed like a flake because her phone died (yes these girls are ditsy). Thinking she got nervous and ghosted me, I ate at the restaurant where we were supposed to meet having some beer and rabbit and just called it a loss, thought about what should I do with my night. She finally charged her phone at a nearby bar, then met me an hour later and I ended up taking some edibles with her and banging her out that night (I put on a cover, but she def didn't ask me to. Just saying). Point is you never know how the night will go. And that's what's so F*#ki at g EXCITING!

Go to the FKKs and you will quickly see if you want more FKK or more SA. Personally, I have only been to an FKK once, but I enjoyed it and it's either a starter or a finisher in my eyes. Finish the day with FKK or start the day with it, then go on a SA date. When you bang the SA girl, you will be nice and relaxed from the FKK. Just an option.

GFE in FKK?. It's available for a price. I never pay more for kissing / GFE, etc. The girls come in all shapes and sizes. You will find girls there that fit your height requirements. Think of strippers. They wear these huge heels even though they are not very tall, but will seem like a giant. I'm 5'10" and some of the girls are eye level with me, but when they take the heels off, they drop to my chin. LOL. Just tell her to take her heels off. She won't hesitate to please, believe me.

Hope this helps.

Just my. 02.

[AmericanPi]

You should definitely go to Frankfurt for a few days and experience an FKK. The best are Sharks and Oase. Don't read too much about them in advance. Save the surprise. I'm more of a seeker but trust me you don't want to miss the FKK experience in your life and Frankfurt has the biggest.

PM me if you want details since this isn't a FKK board.

Hi Folks,

I will be coming to Europe for about 12 days (14 days incl transit) in June. Landing and flying back from Frankfurt. I have been reaching out to girls on SA and have been getting a decent amount of positive response so far. Positive here means they are adding me to their favorites, quite a few are chatting with me (on SA, telegram and WA) and expressed interest in meeting up when I visit their city.

Here's the dilemma: given the limited number of days, should I dedicate most of the days to visit cities with good SA potential, or should I also reserve some days to go visit FKK Clubs in Frankfurt, Cologne and Zurich?

I have never done either before. I am turned on by GFE, especially DFK. I am not into tall girls, since I am myself not very tall. I will visit FKK Sharks once for sure (the day I land). I may visit it once more the day I am leaving Europe.

[Intelligencium]

Hi Folks,

I will be coming to Europe for about 12 days (14 days incl transit) in June. Landing and flying back from Frankfurt. I have been reaching out to girls on SA and have been getting a decent amount of positive response so far. Positive here means they are adding me to their favorites, quite a few are chatting with me (on SA, telegram and WA) and expressed interest in meeting up when I visit their city.

Here's the dilemma: given the limited number of days, should I dedicate most of the days to visit cities with good SA potential, or should I also reserve some days to go visit FKK Clubs in Frankfurt, Cologne and Zurich?

I have never done either before. I am turned on by GFE, especially DFK. I am not into tall girls, since I am myself not very tall. I will visit FKK Sharks once for sure (the day I land). I may visit it once more the day I am leaving Europe.

Pros / Cons:

FKK Clubs sound like heaven. Surrounded by naked, hot girls IS heaven. But, these girls are probably not going to give GFE, and likely to be a hit or miss. Also likely to be tall?

SA potentials are really hot, and will likely give GFE. I can also have a connection with them over dinner, drinks etc, and may be some of them can accompany me to their local tourist spots (so that I am not alone), which sounds exciting to me. Almost like having new GFs every day. But they will be more expensive than FKK visits (not a significant concern) AND (the big one) they may or may not show up. They may or may not be good at sex. They may smell. They may be crazies. Hahaha.

Really confused. What do folks here think?

[Clone8884]

Flew a girl from CDMX to Tijuana. I live near the border so it was easy for me to drive there. Got us an oceanfront Airbnb. My Spanish is garbage and it really made me realize I need to spend more time practicing. I had a good 3 days with her but I am not sure I will meet her again. I have met non English speakers before but have only spent the night with them. Spending 3 days with them is an entirely different thing. We had lots of sex which was great but ended up just spending a lot of time at the Airbnb watching anime with dubbed English and Spanish subtitles (she loves anime). While we were checking out of the Airbnb she asked me to pay her cash directly which was something we never agreed upon before. It threw a big wrench in the experience and made me a bit disappointed. Of course I did not pay her because that was never agreed upon before but it made me feel she was ungrateful. I spent around $1100 for the 3 days which included the Airbnb, her flight, food, drinks, gas, uber and some clothes shopping for her at the mall.

I had a good time but the language barrier really made it difficult. I am willing to meet someone with a language barrier but not more than 1 night. In the future that will be one of my criteria for flying girls out for a multiday trip.

[BlueEyesFun]

Has anyone had problems paying for SA using a privacy.com or other private credit card? Don't want to use my real credit card for obvious reasons. Any suggestions?

[Gfefan]

I did not intend to but it worked that way.

This is a real sweetie I met a few times while traveling. Great chemistry, great sex. And, best part. I enjoyed having her around even after finishing.

A few months in, I was telling her on phone that I am traveling and it would be fun if she joined. She said "Give me at least two weeks heads up. I need to get time off from my manager".

It was rheroric from me but she thought I was being serious. Then, I also said rhetoric "Hmmm. I am not sure I can pay your ppm as well as your expenses".

She went "Babe, forget it. I love spending time with you. On top of it you AR taking me somewhere. Money is not needed".

Thats how it went. I never intended to ask but I got lucky.

Mind you, this is a super sweet girl never asks me for money. And I never ask her for sex. We just give each other.

There was this trip where we went out in sun, back in room. I went to shower. Left door open (hint). She walks in few minutes later, undresses right outside the shower glass, walks in and hugs me from behind. I feel her whole body behind me and I am already hard. She plays with my dick for a while, and then, I grabbed her, put her against the wall, and entered her pussy from behind slamming her cute ass. Finished on her ass in the shower.

We step out, jump on bed and. Round 2. Epic sex with CIP. (She has IUD).

It is these memories (like Steve says) I will take to my grave.

Sadly, I don't enjoy sex at home anymore. Side effect, though.

While new to the Seeking game (working on report), I got to ask some questions here. Thanks for sharing some of the failures / issues, but would like to see more details. I would like to travel with the great ones as well.

Intelligencium: is this a girl you've never met, IE just SK? I believe just in terms of process, there are universal rules that apply, from broad to more specific in terms of "escalation" in hobbying, not just SK / SBs.

1. Never ever pay up front.

2. Don't do overnights with girls you don't know (this might be better applied in Col vs Thailand, etc).

3. Never do threesomes with girls you don't know.

4. Don't travel with girls you don't know.

5. More escalation.

I know from Seeking / Sao Paulo threads, seems like overnights are pretty normal and safe (and some great value), but usually there's a lot of vibe checking in the club / dinner / facetime etc. Travel is just another escalation & more time to suffer if the relationship is already sour / poor. Start with a date, and then see what happens.

HumbleHal, how was the girl before the trip? Did you jive well on many occasions? I think from your experience and what Elvis has shared previously, there are some reality check conversations that might be helpful before travelling, IE the conversation with border / customs agents, flying together vs meeting there, how we met, purpose, etc.

From all the great reports here, for SK this is progression that I'm tweaking in my own process:

1. Online, you're just weeding out the real girls, ones you want to meet within a week or 2. As soon as you get a good vibe, go offline to WA or other medium to discuss details (arrangement, likes / dislikes, etc) for your first date. Then verify details / video chat, etc before wasting more time. Most guys seem to being aiming at dinner / drinks and approx up to 3/4 hrs (generally wouldn't be too strict on time, only the WG think like that, some will just stay over).

2. Date goes well / great, repeat or escalate. Date doesn't go great, rinse. Ha. Really I guess this applies to all women, regardless of where you met.

3. My first report will be a 24 HR date. Didn't start that way. But the next time I visit SP, will "consider" travel with this girl. She is demanding price-wise, but during our date was fabulous (can't think too much with GFE brain despite the great experience). Travel seems to be an interesting one in terms of dealmaking. GFEFAN, did you discuss like a daily allowance beforehand (and she just refused), or just went with the flow? I think I am like Steve, where I'd like to know ahead of time rather than have stickershock afterwards.

F.

P.S. This is a fantastic thread, please keep reporting the good & the bad. Cheers!

[Dj Tan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...6ca6a780&ei=40

[AmericanPi]

A couple of years ago, I had an SB that was so into me, loved sex, and was hot with a great bod. The super weird thing was how easy it was to get her to be my SB and how she was totally happy to BB. I kept thinking that this was too good to be true. Well, I eventually found out that she was trying to get pregnant. Why she wanted to get pregnant is another story altogether.

About 9 years ago, when I first started using SA, I had an SB tell me that she discovered SA from a friend of hers that used SA. She said to me that her friend's SD accidentally got her friend pregnant, and that she decided to have the kid, and now the SD has to give her friend money every month and so her friend doesn't have to work, and how lucky that was for her friend. I fucking freaked out and decided to stop seeing her soon thereafter.

I sometimes see posts on here that sound like "that's not my girl. My girl is different. We have something special. " And I enjoy the read but still roll my eyes a little.

Most of these girls, not all, know their lot in life. And it's not good. If your job consists of showing up to the swap meet 4 days a week and selling fake jewelry, chances are you wake up at 50 still doing that. And they know it. Because they do it with their mom. And there are few off ramps. And you might just be one. Because you show up with your nice shoes and passport and nice hotel room and it's clear you have a connection to a better place. Ain't nobody want to marry you but it's like wanting that first job and meeting an exec at a big company. You don't know how but that guy can enter you into the world.

Any guy who doesn't recognize that power differential in this relationship and thinks they're just 2 equals on a relationship journey together is willfully ignorant. Not saying do anything different. Just saying recognize what's happening in front of your eyes.

[Chicago85]

Topic 2. What to pay an SB when traveling with her.

....... I MOSTLY think about how they are going to spend many hours every day on their own in a strange city without any friends and without anything to do ........ I eventually landed on paying them 1. 5 to 2 times what I give them for PPM. How did I come to this figure? Well, the market rate in China for overnight with a WG is 3 times their PPM rate. But my SBs are not WGs, and so they do not expect 3 times. But I figured that if I am giving them X amount for a couple of hours, then I should give them 1. 5 to 2 times that amount for 24 hours. Especially since I abandon them for much of the day. In addition, a couple of my SBs have to get up early and then travel all day to meet me at our destination, and so I kind of feel bad about that.

What do you guys think?

In Colombia it has depended on what else I was paying for. I haven't done it a ton, but scenarios below.

1) Had a favorita from Barranquilla meet me at a resort near Santa Marta ( 1 HR away) by bus. Before travelling I asked her, her rate for that period, and she said she had never done the travel thing before and didn't know, so I actually proposed 1 x PPM for the weekend which was essentially 2 days. She went for it and we were together 24 x7. I think sex only 3 x (Friday night, Saturday 2 x, and Sunday left early). I ended up giving her approximately 1. 25 x PPM for the entire time and she seemed disappointed. She stopped responding to me shortly thereafter lol.

2) Flew a favorita from Medellin to Punta Cana for 4 days at resort. I paid for her flight and everything else. It was her first time leaving Colombia and we agreed to no cost and I spoiled her when she was with me. Lots of GFE sex the entire time. She got a large number if IG photos which she liked, a dress, and we had some incredible dinners and a boat ride. We are still in touch although she has a regular guy.

In Brazil, just one experience.

3) Had a favorita that I'd know for only a week in Copacabana, Rio join me at a Hyatt resort for the 3-day weekend that was about 45 minutes away. We agreed that I'd pay her 1. 5 x PPM per day. I think she enjoyed being able to take IG post pictures more than anything. I paid for all food, drink, a swimsuit, and a massage. This was Thursday afternoon through Sunday noon and paid her 4.5 PPM for ~6 sessions over those ~3 days. She was very happy.

In each scenario the girl was 21-26, no kids, with me 24x7 and very GFE. Most were working and studying a bit on the side so no complications or cost with kids.

[Midwestern]

A year ago in Mexico a girl started to try to BB me. I know some of you are into it, but that's not my jam. It immediately set off alarm bells, like "oh she wants be pregnant."

A couple of years ago, I had an SB that was so into me, loved sex, and was hot with a great bod. The super weird thing was how easy it was to get her to be my SB and how she was totally happy to BB. I kept thinking that this was too good to be true. Well, I eventually found out that she was trying to get pregnant. Why she wanted to get pregnant is another story altogether.

About 9 years ago, when I first started using SA, I had an SB tell me that she discovered SA from a friend of hers that used SA. She said to me that her friend's SD accidentally got her friend pregnant, and that she decided to have the kid, and now the SD has to give her friend money every month and so her friend doesn't have to work, and how lucky that was for her friend. I fucking freaked out and decided to stop seeing her soon thereafter.

[HumbleHal]

Now the girls are asking for 500 or more. One told me she wanted 1500 bi-weekly for 2 get togethers (sex). I told her she was had "over valued herself".

The other girl thinks she are worth 500 so I countered at 400 with one and she accepted last night, she was chubby without clothes on and required me to use a condom for the pussy hole, so I could tell she was a pro. I am going to ghost her.

Another said she was worth 500 and I met her at a restaurant briefly, she looked ok. In the bedroom she was very fat, turned out she was 7 months pregnant, and I could not keep an erection because of that and her comments every 2 minutes that I could not keep an erection. I dropped her the next day, texted her and her response was "why?" I said it was obvious my body did not respond to her pregnant body and pecks on the lips, no passion.

The girls are becoming more like prostituties and no longer students, young professionals or normal young women. They all start at 500 for a sad fuck, no passion, just dead fish in the bedroom. Sad.

[AmericanPi]

Your post speaks to a dynamic we don't talk about it because it's not comfortable.

The reality is, if you're on the male side of this equation, you probably have a career and resources and a future.

On the other side, maybe some are just paying for their university studies, but most are living the kind of lives they will still be living in 15 years. Doing nails or hair, retail, etc. Every once in a while, you realize you're being looked at as a potential off ramp. Not always but sometimes.

A year ago in Mexico a girl started to try to BB me. I know some of you are into it, but that's not my jam. It immediately set off alarm bells, like "oh she wants be pregnant."

After I read your last sentence, I re-read some of your earlier posts. Seems like you are totally into your SB. I think most of us have fallen in love with a WG or SB. I know I have. I remember one time when I was working in SE Asia, I took a short vacation and took one of my favorite WGs with me. While we were laying on the beach, I noticed a lot of thin scabs on her legs. I immediately recognized what they were, she was a cutter, someone who cuts themselves. I asked her about the scars, and she said that she hates her life and so she cuts herself. Man, I immediately fell in love with her as soon as she told me that. At the end of our trip, I gave her an extra 3 grand USD. She could not believe it. I stopped seeing her, but I did not feel guilty about it becuase I gifted her so much cash. But one day I ran into her, and she begged me to marry her. She said she wanted to make a family with me. She had a ring on her finger, it was made up of two rings that snapped together. She took one ring off and gave it to me. She said these two rings will find a way to be together again. For the next several years, she would text me every once in a while, but I ignored her. This all happened over ten years ago..

[Midwestern]

I am not him, but I guess he tries to not get emotional attachment to his SB. Not a bad idea actually, to keep a little distance and keep it like business transaction. Cause at the end we have to say goodbye, it could be easier than with what I am doing right now.

After I read your last sentence, I re-read some of your earlier posts. Seems like you are totally into your SB. I think most of us have fallen in love with a WG or SB. I know I have. I remember one time when I was working in SE Asia, I took a short vacation and took one of my favorite WGs with me. While we were laying on the beach, I noticed a lot of thin scabs on her legs. I immediately recognized what they were, she was a cutter, someone who cuts themselves. I asked her about the scars, and she said that she hates her life and so she cuts herself. Man, I immediately fell in love with her as soon as she told me that. At the end of our trip, I gave her an extra 3 grand USD. She could not believe it. I stopped seeing her, but I did not feel guilty about it becuase I gifted her so much cash. But one day I ran into her, and she begged me to marry her. She said she wanted to make a family with me. She had a ring on her finger, it was made up of two rings that snapped together. She took one ring off and gave it to me. She said these two rings will find a way to be together again. For the next several years, she would text me every once in a while, but I ignored her. This all happened over ten years ago. Guess what? About a month ago, I somehow came across her ring. Made me feel a bit sad.

But now I am totally jaded. I might sometimes feel sorry for some gals, but that is the most that I will feel for a gal these days.

[Midwestern]

If I could have shelved her till sex time I would have.

LOL. Yep, that's how I feel with many SBs. However, I have found some that I can actually hang out with though, but that's because they are either funny and fun, and / or it is because they love to drink.

On the $$/ day I just don't see paying that much. I guess it depends on geography tho. Like I paid Thifany $1000 for the week. Which isn't bad coin for a brasileira. But if I have a US girl at 500/ night I can't see paying her $1000/ day for 4 days or even $500/ day. Maybe 1200 for 4 days or something. I guess it just depends on the sitch. But 1. 5-2 x is out of the realm of possibilities for me.

Upon some reflection, you are totally right. One of my favorite SBs in the states was 400 PPM, but she came out to meet me on a business trip and I gave her 1000 total for 4 days, so only 250 per day, even though her PPM was 400. I did similarly with other SBs in the states. This logic works out because my SBs were not meeting SDs every day, and so gettting 250 for 4 days in a row was a good deal for them.

I now figured out my error on how I landed on 1. 5 to 2 times PPM when traveling with a gal in China. The first gal that I traveled with was someone who had recently retired from being a WG. She had worked for an outcall agency and was used to meeting two johns per day, three weeks per month (the other week was time off due to aunt flo visit). After she retired from being a WG, she moved back to her hometown, bought a condo, and got engaged. But she and I always hit it off and when I asked her to meet me, she said yes, and that is when I started struggling with how much to give her. It was at that time when you (Steve) offered your ideas on what to pay. Somehow, I came up with 1. 5 times her PPM rate times number of days. I thought this was fair given what she used to make as a WG. Anyway, since then, I have traveled with other gals in China, and now that I think of it, they did seem pleasantly surprised by how much I gave them, and so I guess I have been overpaying while in China. I wish I can travel with the SBs that I currently have (both young with rocking bods) to see what they would accept. Neither is a WG. The are both PPM arrangments. I bet they would take about half of the PPM rate per day times the number of days. But given that both do not drink, I have no desire to travel with them.

BTW, one problem with traveling with SBs, to play devil's advocate, is that quite often we have very incompatiple sleeping schedules. Many SBs stay up late until 2 am or 3 am or even 4 am, looking at their phones, and wake up at around 10 am or later. But for me, I go to bed usually at around 11 pm and wake up at 6 am or 7 am.

[Steve 9696]

Actually that's totally logical.

I have done all day sessions with girls before. Afternoon through following morning. And what you're describing is exactly what happens. These are not worldly girls. Let's be honest. For the most part they're simple people. And so you have to really carry the conversation if it's going to be any good. Last date I had the only thing that animated this girl was when she was talking about this crappy reality tv show she watches. If I could have shelved her till sex time I would have.

Ah MW. I get the two rooms now. It's not two bedrooms. It's one bedroom and an office / hideout. That def works if you can afford it (which apparently you can!

On the $$/ day I just don't see paying that much. I guess it depends on geography tho. Like I paid Thifany $1000 for the week. Which isn't bad coin for a brasileira. But if I have a US girl at 500/ night I can't see paying her $1000/ day for 4 days or even $500/ day. Maybe 1200 for 4 days or something. I guess it just depends on the sitch. But 1. 5-2 x is out of the realm of possibilities for me.