Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Elvis 2008]

Given the size, strength and budget of the Orc army vs Ukraine, the orcs are by no means kicking ass, in terms of lives lost, economic destruction and equipment losses, Russia is the one getting pummeled.

And the most convincing part of that if anyone in government shares document showing that line is bullshit not only will they be put in jail but their boss will be put in jail.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-jack-teixeira

He is accused of sharing classified military documents on Discord about Russia's invasion of Ukraine and other national security topics.

Authorities allege he began sharing classified documents in a Discord chat group, including typing out documents and sharing photographs, and continued to do so even after being warned by superiors about his activities in accessing intelligence information.

Teixeira allegedly bragged about the scope of information to which he had access, writing that what he had presented was "less than half of what's available".

"All of the shit I've told you guys I'm not supposed to," federal prosecutors have alleged he said.

https://www.zerohedge.com/military/a...r-removed-post

One of the documents released by Teixeira was an intelligence assessment that predicted that Ukraine would fall "well short" of its goals in the counteroffensive. American officials attempted to downplay those findings in May before Kiev launched a counteroffensive the following month.

End of link.

It is amazing how much government shit is classified and why it is. In this case, it is pretty obvious documents were classified to keep the American people in the dark about how throwing money into the pit that is Ukraine is a complete waste.

Russia is the one getting pummeled? Yeah, sure.

[Paulie97]

Polling data from the occupiers can be discarded.

Russian as it is now, will never stop meddling in UA politics, they can't even stop meddling in US and EU politics.

These are the facts. While Putin has been clear from the beginning that he believes Ukraine has no right to exist and should be absorbed into Russia. He wants it all. This is based on spurious historical analysis that I refuted on this thread back in the Spring of 2022. Though there's one big problem with internet discussions and debates, as there's a perceived need for a complete redo every time a new person enters the thread. LOL I'm not willing to invest my limited time that way, though here's some decent sources for those interested, while many more can be found in Google.

https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter...-putin-513812/

This is a podcast you can access at the top right of the page.

https://globalaffairs.org/commentary...istory-ukraine

[Blood Red]

And how many combatants and civilians have been killed or injured during that period? Hundreds of thousands?

Until the last Ukrainian? I know that's sick, but it sounds like that's what the neocons, the NATO warmongers and Zelensky wants.

This will go on indefinitely, as long as the two sides have the will, the arms and the young men to continue.

Sooner rather than later, Ukraine will run out of men to put on the front line. Then what? They are already sending teenagers and old men. What's next? Women? Horrific.

The West needs to put pressure on both countries to end the war. Ukraine should give up the idea it can return to pre-2014 borders. It won't happen, and in any event based on polling data the majority in the occupied areas (Crimea and Russian occupied Donbas) preferred to be affiliated with Russia instead of Ukraine before the recent hostilities broke out. Russia should accept the territorial integrity and independence of the rest of the Ukraine, and stop meddling in Ukrainian politics.

I agree with all that. I don't think Putin wants anything more than the 4 new territories + Crimea as part of Russia. I really don't know what he has planned for Kharkov and Odessa. But Ukraine must be neutral also, that's what started this whole thing. And for the you. S to stop meddling in Ukrainian politics as well. I mean that's how this whole thing started in 2014 when the you. S removed the democratically elected leader.

I'm not saying the West should pull the plug on aid to Ukraine. It should however push Ukraine to the negotiating table. Russia has been willing to talk for a while, although admittedly who knows if the Kremlin is sincere.

Something like what exists in Korea, a permanent cease fire along the current lines of control, would be much, much preferable to the current situation.

That's how this will end, a ceasefire without a peace agreement, a frozen conflict, much like the Koreas.

[VinDici]

and in any event based on polling data the majority in the occupied areas (Crimea and Russian occupied Donbas) preferred to be affiliated with Russia instead of Ukraine before the recent hostilities broke out. Russia should accept the territorial integrity and independence of the rest of the Ukraine, and stop meddling in Ukrainian politics.

Polling data from the occupiers can be discarded.

Russian as it is now, will never stop meddling in UA politics, they can't even stop meddling in US and EU politics.

[Tiny 12]

This is an interactive map of areas held by Russia and the Ukraine:

https://www.nzz.ch/english/ukraine-w...ine-ld.1688087

Open the web page in two browser windows. Leave one at the current date, 6-11 December, 2023. In the second window, take the date back to 17 November, 2022.

You'll see the two sides have been stalemated for over a year. Any change in the area occupied by Russia is imperceptible.

And how many combatants and civilians have been killed or injured during that period? Hundreds of thousands?

This will go on indefinitely, as long as the two sides have the will, the arms and the young men to continue. The West needs to put pressure on both countries to end the war. Ukraine should give up the idea it can return to pre-2014 borders. It won't happen, and in any event based on polling data the majority in the occupied areas (Crimea and Russian occupied Donbas) preferred to be affiliated with Russia instead of Ukraine before the recent hostilities broke out. Russia should accept the territorial integrity and independence of the rest of the Ukraine, and stop meddling in Ukrainian politics.

I'm not saying the West should pull the plug on aid to Ukraine. It should however push Ukraine to the negotiating table. Russia has been willing to talk for a while, although admittedly who knows if the Kremlin is sincere.

Something like what exists in Korea, a permanent cease fire along the current lines of control, would be much, much preferable to the current situation.

[Blood Red]

If you want peace, just ask the Occupiers to leave Ukraine and there will be peace, it's not rocket science.

What you are suggesting is Utopian and not realistic.

While you're at it, why don't you ask the Turks to leave Cyprus, or for the Israeli's to uproot all the settlers from the west bank, I could give you many more examples.

Ukraine will have to cede territory, they are not getting the 4 new territories or Crimea back. Everyone knows that. Time to accept reality and make peace. The longer this goes on, the more difficult it will get for Ukraine. That's the reality.

[DramaFree11]

One of what "University presidents" bullshit boy?

What exactly is he wrong about?

Your mighty, invincible, peerless army was supposed to have taken Kyiv by Feb 27,2022. Remember that?

Instead, the only country you have managed to defeat is your own.

The only people you have managed to enslave is your own.

Good job!

Xman when does the truth matter to you. This is what happens when you guys play with fire, this time you helped to ruin a country. Still no negotiation, what do you guys hope to accomplish.

[VinDici]

If you want peace, just ask the Occupiers to leave Ukraine and there will be peace, it's not rocket science.

Exactly. More money or weapons won't change the outcome (a Russian victory). Just like the Himars, or the Atacms, or the F16's, or the Leopards, or the Storm Shadow didn't and won't (in case some fool is counting on the F16s to make a difference, whenever they arrive, they will quickly burn like those Leopards are burning). Etc etc. Etc. Time to make peace and end this senseless killing.

[Blood Red]

Correct, I will add everyone in the world has lost from this disaster. What a Mess and yet some want the killing to continue. Throwing money towards Ukraine will only prolong them getting their ass kicked and losing more lives / territory. Great job liberals.

Exactly. More money or weapons won't change the outcome (a Russian victory). Just like the Himars, or the Atacms, or the F16's, or the Leopards, or the Storm Shadow didn't and won't (in case some fool is counting on the F16s to make a difference, whenever they arrive, they will quickly burn like those Leopards are burning). Etc etc. Etc. Time to make peace and end this senseless killing.

[Blood Red]

They both lose. The only difference is the degree of loss.

Russia will be able to survive this. Ukraine on the other hand will get totally wrecked and will become a dysfunctional rump state that will never join NATO or the EU. So what was the point of all this from Ukraine's perspective? Those are the questions that Zelensky will have to answer one day, why did he walk away from the peace talks in Istanbul in 2022 March. So many lives would not be lost today.

[VinDici]

I've made a pretty solid claim, where is your evidence to the contrary?

You are so wrong, but when does the truth matter to a liberal.

[Xpartan]

You are like one of them University presidents, blind and dumb.

One of what "University presidents" bullshit boy?

What exactly is he wrong about?

Your mighty, invincible, peerless army was supposed to have taken Kyiv by Feb 27,2022. Remember that?

Instead, the only country you have managed to defeat is your own.

The only people you have managed to enslave is your own.

Good job!

[Riina]

Given the size, strength and budget of the Orc army vs Ukraine, the orcs are by no means kicking ass, in terms of lives lost, economic destruction and equipment losses, Russia is the one getting pummeled.

You are like one of them University presidents, blind and dumb.

[DramaFree11]

Given the size, strength and budget of the Orc army vs Ukraine, the orcs are by no means kicking ass, in terms of lives lost, economic destruction and equipment losses, Russia is the one getting pummeled.

You are so wrong, but when does the truth matter to a liberal.

[VinDici]

Given the size, strength and budget of the Orc army vs Ukraine, the orcs are by no means kicking ass, in terms of lives lost, economic destruction and equipment losses, Russia is the one getting pummeled.

Correct, I will add everyone in the world has lost from this disaster. What a Mess and yet some want the killing to continue. Throwing money towards Ukraine will only prolong them getting their ass kicked and losing more lives / territory. Great job liberals.