Ho Chi Minh City - General Info

[Asian Rain]

This is a compilation of the District 1 areas that I have personally used to pick up P4P action in HCMC. I have augmented it with an annotated tourist map so that everybody can better pinpoint the places that I am talking about. I will make references to the areas marked by RED DOTS on the map as I go along.

GENERAL THOUGHTS AND ADVICE

- Cost vs. Peformance: I tend to try to minimise the former and maximise the latter. I may not always achieve this goal, but I look for good bang for the buck. I don't have the access to the significant network of places that service locals nor do I have the time/patience to cultivate freebies. I usually have a small window of time in the evening after going out to dinner with colleagues, so I want a "sure thing" at a predictable price without hassles. Oh, and I HATE bloody karaoke for P4P, so you won't see me writing about those providers.

- Hotels: All tourist and upper-class hotels have varying policies against guests - from "never ever" to "only till a certain time at night." I KNOW Sofitel will allow guests till 9pm (they must leave an ID with the desk). Caravelle will allow guests until 11pm. I KNOW that Sheraton does its best to enforce a "never ever" policy. DON'T ask me about other hotel policies.

This means for most cases you will have to use a small family-operated "mini hotel." These hotels are most often legitimate hotels, but thier main business may be servicing short time girls in the evening. I have encountered two types - cheap US$10 hotels (usually without aircon) and better US$20 hotels (aircon and big bed). As a foreigner, each hotel will charge you a full night's rate for 1-2 hours of use. I have even been rushed out of a hotel after 20min on one occasion (and ended up taking the phone off the hook to enjoy a bit more time)! Always pay for your hotel in Dong - VND150k for a $10 room or VND300k for a $20 room. If the hotel clerk asks for more, just smile and wait till they take the money you offer. Most hotels will ask you for your passport for registration. I NEVER carry my passport - I just smile, shrug my shoulders and say "sorry, no have" to the clerk. They never refuse me a room. All hotels will hand you or the girl an industrial strength condom (yes, they know what you are there for) that will remove any chance you have to feel a pussy. Recommend that you bring your own supply. If you use the hotel condom, you will be charged VND10,000 when you leave, so bring it back upon checkout if you don't use it.

- Negotiating: With moto girls, always negotiate in Vietnamese Dong. At the current exchange rate, it is better to pay VND300k instead of offering US$20. Be clear on your unit of currency to avoid misunderstanding... I write 3-0-0 on the palm of my hand and say "dong" and make sure the girl nods her head.

Girls from Apocalypse, Hai Ba Trung bars and other foreigner-catering places will generally deal in US$ denominations. Spoiled.

- Safety: I have never been ripped-off, but I am extra careful and have heard some awful stories. You should be wary too... NEVER bring more money than is necessary. REMOVE any unnecessary jewelry/watches/etc. ALWAYS lock the door of the hotel room yourself. ALWAYS keep your valuables in sight - for example, NEVER allow the girl to take you into the shower and shut the door... while this is happening someone will enter the room and rifle your pants. NEVER trust the girl - she doesn't trust you either!

[A] THI MINH KAI/INDEPENDENCE PALACE MOTO GIRLS [Ref #1]

Girls of varying beauty ride around on motos - alone or with a driver - looking for short time customers. The girls usually start to come out past 10pm after the nearby park closes. Best to stand in the darkness of the shops (near red dot #1) and look a bit helpless - the girls will drive up onto the sidewalk and come to you. If a girl stops that you like, use sign language to negotiate a price. This is the cheapest action I have personally experienced - US$10-15-20 for ST.

I have used these girls 4 times. Each time the girls have taken me to the same depressing non-airconditioned (fan only) mini hotel near the old Sahara Bar. Each time the hotel has charged me VND150k (US$9) for an hour of room usage. Each time the girl has required me to pay in advance so that the driver can bring the money back to her mama-san. This has led me to believe that these girls are not independent operators. Each time the girl's attitude has declined once I handed over the money: TWICE girls reneged on agreements to do video, one refused to do a simple blow job and ALL rushed the service. This is a direct product of paying in advance. Once you have handed over the money, the girls have no incentive to do anything but get things over with - quickly and painlessly (for them). One pop and you are DONE.

PROS: Cheapest cost. It's darker and the girls are easier to approach. CONS: Cheapest service.

[B] SMALL PARK ACROSS FROM CARAVELLE HOTEL [Ref #2]

FL SW girls will often hang around the small park area across from the Caravelle hotel. They are all looking for foreigners with cash. I have quoted prices with 3 girls - all wanted US$40-50 ST, all were average, none was worth patronizing.

PROS: You could find a gem, but doubtful. CONS: Hit-or-Miss presence, and the taxi drivers will spot you and pester you. Usually girls with babies. Pricey for the quality.

[C] HAI BA TRUNG BARS [Ref #3]

Starting at #49 and #51, there are a couple more bars up to the one next to Pomodoro restaurant. Small places with blackened glass doors. If you are alone or with another male friend, the doors will open and a tout will try to guide you in. There are actually many other Ha Ba Trung-type bars as referred to in other posts, but the system is generally the same in other bars.

Each bar employs 10-20 girls - generally good looking and a couple real cuties. In theory it is possible to go to these bars and just have a beer, but that's not the point. Beers cost circa VND25,000 and girl drinks cost circa VND50,000. Best to CONFIRM THIS and ALWAYS KEEP COUNT. These bars get used a lot for business entertainment - hence you will see a lot of expats entertaining colleagues... they are there for some fun and fondling in the dark but not much else.

When I am taken to a Hai Ba Trung bar, I almost always reject the first girl to approach me. I ask the mommy for a young cutie with big tits and a tight ass. Once I see something I like, I will tell the girl to get a drink. NOTE: You will HAVE to buy the girl a drink or she cannot stay with you. I tell the girl to drink slowly. Once you have bought the girl a drink, you have the right to fondle her within reason - that is what she is there for. That is why I like the big tits and tight ass. It seems the more you fondle, the quicker the girl drinks her drink. I think the girls are programmed to let the drink last for a maximum of 15min, so you can think of it as VND200k (US$13) per hour to have the girl accompany you. I always get the girl to show me her tits and pussy, but don't bother to attempt much else.

If you are fondling very actively, any clued-in girl will sense this and usually suggest going away to a mini-hotel for boom-boom. FS ST quotes I have gotten are US$50 for 2 hours plus $20 for the hotel. I have done this twice and had reasonably good experiences. If you take a girl out, all transactions will be between you and the girl. The girl will take you to a reliable safe mini-hotel that has protection from the police. In some ways I can see why these type of bars are popular - US$100 is not a big cost for an evening of booze, broads and a nice bang to the business crowd.

Some places have private rooms in the back or upstairs. I recollect that #51 has Japanese-style private rooms, but have never used them. They are there for hosting groups - the rooms aren't really designed for complete privacy (glass windows on the doors), so I doubt there is much possibility for on-site services.

All of these bars have a pool table. If you play, the girls will likely want to join in and play for money - one real time/money waster is to play strip pool. If you win a game, the girl takes off an item of clothing. If you lose, you pay the girl VND100k. This is why I get the girl to show me her tits and pussy right from the start - why does anyone want to play so many games of pool and buy so many drinks just to see tits and ass?

If you don't want to take a girl out but still want action, another possibility is to get the girl's phone number. ALL the girls have the latest posh Nokias, so just have her program her number into your phone and then call her the next day to meet up at your hotel (assuming it is guest friendly during daytime hours - see above). You won't save much money, but at least you can have your fun in the comfort of a better hotel. You can also try to take the girl before your hotel's curfew, if you have that luxury.

PROS: Some nice gems to be had for the businessman budget. Relatively safe, anonymous and straighforward - especially if you are entertaining guests. A chance to "know" your girl before you really "know" her - which might end up a GFE. CONS: Pricey. If you get a bad girl, there is no returning her.

[D] APOCALYPSE NOW BAR [Ref #4]

A lot has been said about the decline of this place, so I won't add anything more but to concur. The last three times I have been there in the last 10 months have yielded zero P4P. Not that you can't get it, but it isn't even worth it. Older girls asking for US$75-100 for ST just isn't my zone of acceptability. Take a look and you will likely agree.

PROS: None that I have experienced. CONS: Poor girl/guy ratio. High-priced drinks. Bad music. Girls with poor beauty/cost ratios.

[E] THI MINH KHAI/HCMC ZOO AREA [Ref #5-9]

Okay, I have saved the best (IMHO, based on the 10 girls that I have taken) for last, but those of you staying in the city centre will have to take a $1 moto/taxi ride to get there. First, I pack a rucksack with my video camera/light, a fresh towel from the hotel and my kit pouch with silicone oil and condoms. I usually take a moto to the zoo main entrance at the end of Le Duan (ref #5) and then walk to the zoo entrance on Thi Minh Khai (ref #6) across from the Mitsubishi dealership (ref #7). I walk the last bit because I don't want any moto drivers to know where I am going... if they know you are after girls, some will try to take you places not worth going. Some mongers seem to be walking Le Duan to the zoo main entrance, but the girls rarely cruise this area - there is the National Museum, a school and several sugar cane juice stalls on Binh Khiem, so LE keeps this area sanitized. It does not make sense to go before 9pm... there is a hell of a lot of traffic and some of the shops will still be open.

Try to arrive between 9:30-10:00pm. If you are expecting a dark alley with girls hanging about in fishnet stockings and mini skirts, you will be in for a shock. This part of Thi Minh Khai is a very crowded road in the evening and girls riding the motos will usually be in street clothes - although I have seen a few dress rather sexily. So your first move should be to sit down on the high step in front of the zoo right behind the bus stop. I like to sit here because it is not immediately obvious to onlookers that you are hunting for P4P... you could just be a tourist from the zoo. Look out into the traffic... you will spot the occasional young girl zooming by. If you watch the pattern carefully, you should be able to discern 5-10 girls circling. Just try to get a handle on the potential selection. It will seem that the girls are not looking at you - they will seem to look forward and be completely focussed on the road. But believe me, they are VERY AWARE of your presence. There have been occasions where I was not able to spot any girls in this area (I guess because of LE crackdowns.) Both times I was able to find the girls circling up the road at the bridge (ref #8). You can sit on the railing of the bridge to get the pattern as well.

Some posts have asked what is the "system" here. Well, the system was really designed for guys with motos that can cruise in traffic and talk up the girls while in motion. It was not designed for mongers hanging on steps a few meters back from the road. One thing to keep in mind: the customer base for these girls is local guys - they may never have serviced any kind of foreigner. I think the girls find it just as uncomfortable to stop and proposition a foreign stranger as it is for a foreigner to be standing at the side of the road flagging down Viet girls on motos. But that is just what is required... once you have spotted a girl, your best shot is to position yourself at the edge of the sidewalk and lean up against one of the poles or phone kiosks. If a girl stops and you are not interested, just gently wave your hand to decline and she will go away. If a girl you are interested in does not stop, it may help to discreetly wave your hand to get her attention. If I can do so discreetly, in order to attract a cutie I have also barked "YOU" when the girl passes by.

Once they stop, they will say something like "go hotel mini massage boom-boom." Most of these girls cannot speak any English, they will just want you to hop on the back as stopping by the side of the road attracts unwanted attention - for both you and the girl. Before I hop on, I draw 3-0-0 on my hand and say "dong" to mean that I am offering VND300k for FS. Although this may not be applicable to you, I also confirm pic friendliness by saying "photo/video ok?" Once the girl nods acceptance, I hop on.

NOTE on economics: Local guys typically pay VND150k (or less) to the girl for ST and VND50k for hotel. A foreigner offering VND300k ST is a rather generous sum in this market. My observation is that these girls are relatively independent operators. Just remember, once you have paid a certain sum, the girls will remember.

The girl will almost always take you to one of the many mini hotels behind TMK (ref #9). Sometimes the hotels are full and you will have to try another hotel. Once we arrive at the hotel I will VERY discreetly (without removing it from my rucksack) show the girl my video camera to ensure that she is okay for video. I really like the hotels behind TMK - all take VND150 for ST and offer clean aircon rooms with a big bed. I would even highly recommend them for long-term stay - all legitimate, cheap, clean, safe and girl-friendly! What more would you want? Pay, get your key and go up. I have had girls ask me to pay her FS fee upon check-in. I just point to upwards and say "in room." The hotels don't have any business relationship with the girls that I am aware.

Once in the room often the girls will ask for money up front - they will hold out thier hand. I always reply "boom-boom one, money two." If the girl seems particularly skittish, I will take out my wallet and show her the money. Once, and only once, I took out the money and laid it on the table. I did not let her take it until the job was done. I DO NOT recommend to pay in advance under any circumstances - the incentives to perform will disappear.

Sometimes the girl will just start undressing... this is when I pull out my video cam, oil and equipment from my bag. I like to make sure that the girl will not balk on video, which they occasionally try to weasel out. Don't tolerate it - I will start packing up if the girl refuses! Anyway, you can take a look at my pic sets for an idea of what an experience with these girls is like. I have had some very pleasant girls, but nothing approaching GFE - no 30 min quickie is going to provide that. You should assume that your girl may need some assistance to know what to do... I have had girls strip, lay on the bed, spread their legs and just lie there waiting for me to penetrate them. Remember, this is the service that locals probably get, so a little patience and education can help - use hand gestures to lead the action. Once you are finished (one pop only), you can wash up, pay the girl (I add a VND50k tip if the girl was especially nice), grab a moto outside and go back to your hotel for sweet dreams.

PROS: My favorite balance of price/performance - some nice 18-21yo cuties. A good challenge if you are a "hunter" type monger. CONS: An intimidating process and environment for the first-timer.

Last words - there are a LOT more places to try - bars, discos, karaoke, other SW spots, etc. There are many useful posts from other members which can guide you to these places - READ the POSTS.

Enjoy HCMC! AR+

[Artisto Art]

VietSingles and VietFun. You get 3 free responses per day and if you join $9.99 (gold) you get 50.

Many girls give up there number quickly and some have them readily available for Gold Members.

They have written directly to my email address and have sent add'l pics. So it looks for real.

PM me and maybe we'll meet up, may be there when you around.

Cheers!

[Bamboo Pete]

Thanks for the hints, AP ,

but BJ for 50 Bucks is not a real bargain compared to A.C or BKK, aint it?

How abount the massage places?

Cheers,

BP

[Mojoke]

Hi guys,

I'm heading to saigon in two weeks. I've been there only once before and had a fairly slow go at it. I didnt get that many girls, they were mainly motogirls right around newworld. Tryed a hoc toc in cholon, the girls there were 1-3 looks wise. I didnt try any other hoc tocs but if you guys can recommend one I'd love to give it another try. Went to the APOCNOW once but it was overcrowed with guys and I ended up drinking 3 beers and heading back to the hotel. Didn't try any other discos, but from reading the board it seems a good place for stunners but expensive (for vietnam anyways). Any advice you guys can give would be welcomed.

BTW tryed the vietfun chat rooms last nite (probably too late) and got nothing but a bunch of abv's swapping normal chatroom stuff, dunno if it was me using opera or not but didnt get a single invite (will try again today). It would be nice to get a cutie to show me the sights.

Mojoke

[Fun Sex]

Guys,

I went to VN for my vacation. I stayed there for more than a month. I just got back. I have so many things that I want to tell you guys, but let me rest for a few days. I will update my info soon.

FS

[Asia Rocks]

BP,
Never really paid attention to names, only one I remember is U2 which actually is on a side street just off Hai Ba Trung. There are two side by side on Hai Ba Trung, Nos. 49 and 51 which, in addition to being the address, might also be the name.

Anyway, when you are at the right location you will know it and, yes, some bars have back rooms and some don't. Just go in and you will immediately have a date. Ask your date if she will do BBBJ in back room. Guaranteed 100% of the girls do BBBJ so the only issue is whether they have a back room (at some places the "back" room is upstairs).

Price is what you negotiate, but they will probably ask for $50.
Cheers, AR

AR,

Does this mean that some bars have a room and some not? How do I find bars which specialize on BBBJ ? Can you give me some bar names? How about the prices?

Thanks,

BP

[Bamboo Pete]

AR,

Does this mean that some bars have a room and some not? How do I find bars which specialize on BBBJ ? Can you give me some bar names? How about the prices?

Thanks,

BP

[G Jelly]

So where's the best place to sit and wait around? I walked up and down both NTMK and Le Duan, and that strip between them with the entrance to the zoo. No dice. Is there a cafe somewhere outside that I can sit and wait?

It's kinda frustrating, this not being able to find it.

[QUOTE=Danielus20][QUOTE=Asian Rain]As the night park has opened for kids near the zoo entrance opposite the Mitsubishi dealership on NTMK, the moto girls seemed to have stopped crossing the bridge. I now walk over the bridge and sit on the railing. The best pattern I can discern is that girls start up the street and make the turn around about halfway up the bridge.

This place Asian Rain mentioned is still going strong. Though I don't exactly know the system - not every girl will stop for you. None seemed to speak english if you care about that.10-15 bucks was the 1hr rate on offer from most. I found the spot from my lonely planet guidebook map - it's about a 20 minute walk from the big cathedral down town.

[Asia Rocks]

Hi guys ,

I'm SE Asia experienced but I'll be the first time in VN this coming January. I'm not really keen to bring girls into the hotel or go to a mini hotel , I rather like to do the 'business' in a back room of a bar. Are there any special places for BJ or ST ?

Cheers,

Bamboo Pete

BP,
Yes, you can do that in some of the hostess bars on Hai Ba Trung St.
Cheers, AR

[Bamboo Pete]

Hi guys ,

I'm SE Asia experienced but I'll be the first time in VN this coming January. I'm not really keen to bring girls into the hotel or go to a mini hotel , I rather like to do the 'business' in a back room of a bar. Are there any special places for BJ or ST ?

Cheers,

Bamboo Pete

[Danielus20]

[QUOTE=Asian Rain]As the night park has opened for kids near the zoo entrance opposite the Mitsubishi dealership on NTMK, the moto girls seemed to have stopped crossing the bridge. I now walk over the bridge and sit on the railing. The best pattern I can discern is that girls start up the street and make the turn around about halfway up the bridge.[QUOTE]This place Asian Rain mentioned is still going strong. Though I don't exactly know the system - not every girl will stop for you. None seemed to speak english if you care about that.10-15 bucks was the 1hr rate on offer from most. I found the spot from my lonely planet guidebook map - it's about a 20 minute walk from the big cathedral down town.

[Retired Army]

Why is this place so Popular? Music way too loud, much too crowded and drinks overpriced.

[Retired Army]

I don't know if the Rex Hotel is girl friendly. I think that given the general attitude of the staff it wouldn't be. Then again, it is a pretty busy place and if you don't attract any attention you might get away with it. Just act like she is your girlfriend or wife and you are registered together (and don't bring in someone dressed like a hooker) and go for it.

[Bleute]

I just sit there and wait when a female comes on for a Personal Chat I ascertain age, if she can speak english and then get her phone number.

If she is interested and gives a phone number I just write it in my book and ring her from here or when I get there.

It works Trust Me.

[OldAsiaHand]

I will be in town for a few days next week. If anybody wants to hook-up, drop me a PM. Thanks.

OAH