General Info

[BigthDikth]

CT It sounds like you are going to have a very merry Christmas!

[Doctor_Skank]

Ca_T, you seem to have a rough life... girl arriving at 6 and still not sure where you can get some knockoff Viagra....

...but if she's around for the weekend, make sure its C and not V.... C really is "the weekender", awesome stuff.

Lucky dawg...

Envy envy envy...

[CA Traveler]

BD... I've been using cialis and not V, but I'll ask the price options when I am near a Rx... I have a girl arriving at 0600 in the morning for the weekend, so it may be on Monday.

[BigthDikth]

here’s excerpts from an article in the international herald tribune that is good to know. i don't need the drug but wow! it is fun to use. :-)

"viagra is a very expensive product and will be a niche market for pfizer in india.
the company is pricing a single blue, diamond-shaped 50-milligram pill at 463 rupees, or $10.20. at the nath brothers pharmacy in new delhi, ranbaxy laboratories, the biggest indian drug maker, sells its copy, caverta, at 95 rupees for four tablets of the same dosage."

"copies of viagra are made by some of the biggest drug makers in india, including ranbaxy, cipla, sun pharmaceutical industries and cadila healthcare. cipla's drug is sold as silagra for 75 rupees for four 50-milligram tablets, sun's as edegra at 75 rupees, and cadila's as penegra at 85 rupees at nath brothers in new delhi."

i would like to get some cheap viagra knock-off on line or when i am over in the ukraine. anyone know about this?

thanks in advance bd

[CA Traveler]

bandit... here is the company that I use when I go up to Kiev from Odessa. Owner's name is Alex and he speaks English. However, keep in mind that all Kiev apartment rental companies seem to require a 4 night mininum to make an advance reservation. The reason is that they are fully booked for most of the time so I suggest contacting them ASAP.

I've got a great driver if you need one. Airport transfers are not included in the apartment rates.

Alex's email is: inquiry@kievhotelservice.com
Website is: http://www.kievhotelservice.com/

Once you stay in an apartment that is not "western" standards you will know exactly what it means!

Tell Alex that the guy who used to rent apartments in Moscow and now lives in Odessa suggested you call... It won't do anything special for either of us, but at least it will let him know you have friends in the area.

[Bandit7]

Hello fellow mongers!

I am going to kiev next month 14-18/19 anyone going to be about? Lets get down to business, I need to know where I can rent a decent appartment, only interested in a few minutes walk from independance square, westernized what ever that means. Importantly where I can get a invoice from[expenses]. Do these companies pick you up from the airport? I usually stay at a hotel but natali[great shag] told me last week that if I get a appartment she stay longer[same $]and we can go out on the pull together! I know that these appartments vary in quality so please only decent ones. Hotel adria is girl-friendly, no need to pay security,

Second point has anyone scored with the bar staff in river palace? or the waitress in the sports bar downstairs because every time I go rp I get looks of them like there up for it! appreciate your help, thanks bandit7

[Skunk Nomad]

Guy,

Being a casual user of girls in Ukraine myself I am a bit uncomfortable with this country HIV rates. It is at 1.4% - on par with Thailand, and 0.4% higher than the one in Russia. According to some dated statistics the most infected areas are Donezk, Odessa and Dnepr regions along with Krym.

I am from Russia and when I go to Asia, especially Thailand I abstain from all kind of sex there (albeit women there I find gorgeous) knowing that 1.5% of country has HIV (and I hear that 40% of prostitutes are infected)

I never consider abstaining from sex in Ukraine, perhaps because I never heard the second statistics about Ukraine but does it make me safer in reality :-)

[Cruiser D]

Hey Doc, thanks for taking the time to post those articles.

As to the content and relative nature of them..well...blah...

Someone in Kiev is actually worried about the police in regards to p4p sex...umm, yeah, sure ok...

[Himself]

My comment on the long legs was only black humor, nothing else.

.. but thinking about it might be that the legs looks longer because the shirts are so shorter ;-)

Himself

I think he was joking about the rad bit. Although I do worry about hooking up long term with a 20 something Kiev babe who wants babes.

Increased height based on prior shortness of a race is generally diet derived. ie, Chinese, Japanese...Although I never remember anyone refering to the Slavs in general as short. Such sturdy Viking stock.

[Doctor_Skank]

And the third article:

"Ex-pat bar and club managers weigh in on sex tourism"

For the final part in its series on sex tourism in Ukraine, the Post asked expatriates working in the entertainment industry in Kyiv how sex tourism affects their businesses.

Fabrice Schwarz, France, manager of ModaBar night club.

"You know, men abroad would not pay for visas in order to do sex tourism. But with no visa, you get on a plane and you’re here.
In the West, men’s lives flow within certain limits that they can’t violate. They come to Ukraine and taste freedom, because in general there are not yet such limits here. And if there are, they can be easily violated.
I am not saying we will not be making money from that. We will, just like any other nightclub will. We’ll just not emphasize it…
ModaBar had a reputation as a place where a foreigner could easily pick up a girl. I want to change that image. I don’t want ModaBar to be a *****house. There will always be a need for “working girls,” for sure, but we will limit the number…
To make a client come to your club, you need to have a dance floor full of beautiful young girls. Whether they can be easily picked up or not is not that important. Optical sensation and moderately loud music are what the guests need. But if there is prostitution, and there isn’t this special atmosphere, it’s not a club.
Unfortunately, [in some Kyiv clubs] money dictates the behavior and the club’s policy. "

Ray McRobbie, UK, entertainment manager of River Palace:

"Basically, we have a non-judgmental and non-discriminatory policy regarding our visitors. We let people come in to enjoy themselves – both males and females - whether they want to visit the casino, the sports bar, the night club, or the slots room
[Sex tourism] is a well-documented phenomenon in Thailand and Amsterdam, but I would not mention it in regard to Ukraine. If any sex relations result from visiting River Palace, that comes naturally. A boy meets girl, and a girl meets boy – it’s no different than anywhere else."

Eric Aigner, manager of 112 music club, Art-club 44, and a string of other popular Kyiv bars and restaurants:

"Well, more tourists – any kind of tourists – always have a positive affect on my business. Sex tourists are usually spending a lot. This kind of client supported my business during the summer, although, to be honest, I don’t see that their number is decreasing now. The only thing I don’t like is when some of them declare that all Ukrainian women are prostitutes.
...Earlier this year I hung out with a group of Australians who came to Ukraine for three months to have fun with our girls, because “it was not the season” for that back in Australia…
Sex tourism in Ukraine is growing, but I hope that it will not get to the point where it becomes unpleasant. I would not like Kyiv, for instance, to have prostitutes on its own streets, like many European cities do… Kyiv’s charm would be lost."
The problem is not in Ukraine, it’s in the West. People just cannot communicate easily with the opposite sex anymore. Or maybe it's just not as easy for a middle-aged guy to have sex with a young girl in the West as it is in Ukraine.

Viola Kim, owner of Viola’s Bierstube
I like sex, and I like tourism! [laughs] But I have not encountered sex tourists in my restaurant, as we have a totally different public and atmosphere there, so I cannot really comment on that. From my personal experience, I know that foreign men often think Ukrainian girls are easy to have sex with because of the way they dress or dance and have fun at the discos. What can I say? Ukrainian girls do know how to have fun, and I think it’s great. Besides, many of the Ukrainian women I know are financially independent by the time they are 25; so why can’t they dress or behave the way they want? Cheap girls in Ukraine? I suppose I judge looking at my own social circle, but I do not agree with that statement.

Ozzy, Turkey, manager of Shooters
Whoever comes here, they have one thing on their minds: night clubs and girls. In the year and a half that I have been working at Shooters, I’ve had millions of situations that involved sex tourists. Last September, I had 300 men come from Turkey for girls, and then I also had a group of 50 people from England that wanted to have fun. I meet the people at the airport and they ask me about places to go pick up girls straight away. They give away their business cards to the female customs officers at Boryspil airport. It’s crazy.
But right now at Shooters, I am not letting sex tourists in. I have attracted a very nice and paying local public, and I don’t want to provoke arguments. I’ve had situations when a wife of our Ukrainian guest was dancing with some Turkish guy, while her husband was watching her having fun. She would then return to her husband, and the Turk would start a scandal. As she danced with him, he assumed she would go back to his apartment with him. See, this is a difference in cultures. For us Turkish men, if you smile at us and dance with us, you belong to us. Ukrainian men are more relaxed on this subject.
I do not want anybody to destroy the public I attracted, so we have zero sex tourists at Shooters now. We do have foreign guys at the club, but I know all of them. And I have zero working girls inside as well…
…Let me tell you. I’ve been to Arena, and I am not going there anymore. Because I said “Hi!” and she said “$300.” I said “I never pay for sex,” and she said “Now you have to pay me $20, because you took my time.” And it’s we foreigners who created this whole thing. If there wasn’t demand, there wouldn’t be prostitution."

[Doctor_Skank]

Here's the second article from the Kiev Post:

Women tell their side of the sex-tourism story

A Siemens M55 cell phone rings, and a pleasant young woman excuses herself.
“Yes my name is Lola, and yes it’s my real photo,” she answers in her heavily Russian-accented English.
“I do a professional massage and then continue with erotic body massage until you’re completely relaxed. It’s $50 for an hour and 20 minutes,” the woman tells the person on the other end of the line.
She pauses before replying to the next question. “No, I don’t do sex. Sorry, I just don’t.”
For Inna Kasyanenko, 22, this is a common conversation. She owns a small massage agency in Kyiv, which, she claims, does not offer anything beyond erotic body massage. Yet most of the calls that she gets almost every 15 minutes are from foreigners looking for sex.
“People sound very surprised when I tell them we only do massage,” says Kasyanenko, who advertises her services in the Kyiv Post. “They assume it’s the same as escort.”
Kasyanenko says that recently more escort agencies have started hiding their services behind massage ads because of crackdowns from the police.
But when Kasyanenko started her business five months ago and employed five girls who held certificates earned from taking massage courses, she was cautious about not going beyond the law. The most that her girls can do, she says, is help a client relax.
“I did not want to take risks,” explains Kasyanenko. “I may make half of the amount that escort agencies do, but I am happy with it.”
Dirty money
The sex business is risky and illegal in Ukraine, but it’s also profitable, says Kasyanenko.
According to her, the average costs for escort services in Kyiv are $70 per hour, $100 for two hours, and $250 for the night. Services can range from the generally cheaper so-called “bordellos” – private apartments in the city’s center with 20-25 girls to choose from - to “freelance” girls at the city’s night clubs who usually charge twice that price.
On average, Kasyanenko guesses, an owner of an escort agency in Kyiv with five to 10 girls working for her could make up to $10,000 per month. That’s the amount that a senior analyst at an investment bank in Great Britain makes after taxes.
When a Post reporter asked about a job at the Kyiv-based GIA Model Agency, which is one of the most “well-regarded” escort services among the frequenters of the Web forum at internationalsexguide.com, she learned that a girl can make up to $120 a day by taking three one-hour calls.
Considering that an average Ukrainian teacher from the countryside makes that much in a month, the intense competition to become an escort isn’t surprising.
“Lots and lots of girls are ringing in, asking for a job, and competition is fierce,” says the woman who answers the phone at a local escort agency.
The same woman, who wished to stay anonymous, told the Post that nine out of 10 girls who work in her agency come from the provinces, seeking easy money in the capital. For most, escorting is a full-time job.
“On the other hand, turnover of the girls is very high, too,” the woman said. Girls either quit after being treated badly or get kicked out for breaking business rules.
“It’s very difficult to stay completely honest and loyal to your employer when you’re in this business,” the same woman said. Some of the “mistakes” girls make include giving out phone numbers to clients - something that is not allowed in an escort agency - or landing a steady boyfriend. The job can be tougher if the agency’s owner is a difficult person to deal with.
“I think they’re all a bit out of their minds,” said the woman about the people in charge of Kyiv’s sex industry.
DIY
Lyuba, 33, has been a prostitute for six years now. She’s unaffiliated with any agency because she didn’t want to hand over any of her hard-earned money to anybody, and didn’t want to deal with an unpredictable pimp.
“Now, at least, I can pay my bills,” Lyuba says. Her current job can bring her, if she is lucky, $100 a day. But it pays her back in loneliness, disease, and depression, she said. Neither especially pretty nor bad-looking, Lyuba has tired, cynical eyes. “I couldn’t care less for my life now; I just don’t care,” she says.
Lyuba attracts mostly foreign clients through the small ad she runs in the Kyiv Post. She says she wouldn’t dare to work with locals.
“Foreigners, as a rule, treat us more like gentlemen, and Russians and Ukrainian can even be dangerous. You never know what to expect from them,” says Lyuba.
Sometimes, if they get along well, Lyuba shows her foreign clients around the city during the day.
“You’d be surprised, but these foreign men need communication with somebody more than anything else. They sound so lonely,” she says. Her clients are mostly businessmen coming to Ukraine for work reasons.
This summer Lyuba has also gotten more calls from men she identifies as sex tourists. They were just rude, she says.
“One of these men even ordered me: ‘Speak English, please!’ when I answered the call in Russian,” recalls Lyuba, laughing. “He probably thought it was a requirement of my job to speak English.” Lyuba speaks little English, but that doesn’t interfere with her work that much.
The really annoying thing about her job, she says, is that she always has to stay within a kilometer of her house, because she never knows when a client will call.
“My mom wanted me to come home, which is in Ternopil oblast, but I didn’t go,” tells Lyuba. “What if a client called? If I miss one, I may not get the next call in a week’s time.”
In good times, Lyuba says, she gets about 10 clients a month.
For Nataliya, 19, who also works independently, sleeping with foreign men is just a way to make extra money, which, she says, she saves to be able “to move abroad some time in the future.” It’s also a way to meet people whom “I wouldn’t have a chance to meet if I were a teacher,” she says.
While Nataliya has noticed there have been “lots of sex tourists” in Kyiv recently, she says her regular clients are actually expatriates, whose photos she often sees in the pages of the Kyiv Post.
“One day, I will write a book on sex in Kyiv,” Nataliya promises.

[Cruiser D]

I think he was joking about the rad bit. Although I do worry about hooking up long term with a 20 something Kiev babe who wants babes.

Increased height based on prior shortness of a race is generally diet derived. ie, Chinese, Japanese...Although I never remember anyone refering to the Slavs in general as short. Such sturdy Viking stock.

Your friend is obviously not only not a scientist, he's a,
well, I don't know, MORON?!

Genetic mutations caused by exposure to radioactive
material would result in, well, mutations! That is,
a variety of DIFFERENT effects and results, not the
same thing. If they were all the same, THEY WOULDN"T
BE MUTANTS!

Increased height is hereditary!

[Cruiser D]

First Americans needed a Visa, then around the spring time you didn't need an active visa as long as you had traveled to the Ukraine within 6 months and were not planning on staying over 90 days. Now, as of some time around July, American citizens don't need a visa at all, as long as you don't plan on staying over 90 days.

The Ukrainian Embassy says Americans are allowed 1 to 5 years when applying for a Multi-entry Visa. Is it up to them to give us what ever or can we specify that we want the five year duration?

[Your Dog]

The Ukrainian Embassy says Americans are allowed 1 to 5 years when applying for a Multi-entry Visa. Is it up to them to give us what ever or can we specify that we want the five year duration?

[Bez Bezarra]

All you need is a passport and balls.

No more yankee visas, one years, five years, any years.

Hey Docky, where's part 2 and 3 of Yuliana's cunny chronicles?