American Politics

[Ocean Traveler]

I know I should keep my mouth shut but here goes.

The average illegal alien costs $87,000 more than they will ever produce and that's before Social Security is added in. The average family of 4 in California costs the taxpayers $57,000 per year!

It does't save the US economy money. If it did, why do the states with the largest illegal populations have massive budget problems? It is cost shifting; so one person gets thier lawn cut cheaper but we all subsidize it through taxes.

Military spending as a percentage of the overall budget is historically and for a time of war it is unheard of.

Over 65% of the Federal Budget is entitlements: Medicaid, Medicare, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc. All programs started since WWII and dramatically expanded under Johnson during the War of Poverty. We have spent trillions on that war with very little sign of success. When do we "redeploy" on subsidizing failure?

Why pay billions for illegal aliens on one hand and pay billions in welfare subsidizing unemployment and failure on the other? Call me crazy but somethings wrong with this picture.

[Bart9000]

OK

You are on the right track here, so I won't berate you



Social spending is a pittance relative to what is kicked over to the military industrial complex, and other corporations usually in the form of tax breaks. I't's basically a non issue that the right uses to drum up business......it's easy to do because it's a visible issue, and on the surface reeks of unfairness, and paritism of people who are different from you....it is human nature to be resentful given that level of information about a subject. If it werent' there, there would be people starving (and killing and stealing) in the streets (yes, I know, some of them put themselves in the situation through stupidity and irresponsibility), and we as a relatively wealthy nation find this to be unseemly enough to throw a little money at it

I don't know a lot about the situation with the veterans......you should check your stats however....as I proved below, a lot of people just flat out lie when they are trying to get funding and political support.

The big complaint with imigrants is that they are taking jobs.. Here is the thing. I work with a lot of these guys....in my estimation, they mostly have a sixth grade education, and know maybe 100 words in English. Now even if they are willing to work harder for less money, do you know anyone who can't compete successfully with someone like this......if in fact you do, they are probably going to be at the bottom of the heap anyways.

Also, increasing the population of working poor is good for the economy.......THEY BUY THINGS (on a percentage basis much more than wealthy people-I can put you to sleep with econ talk if you want me to), which creates profit, and spurs additional demand.....increases the demand for labor, which increases wages across the board.

B9k

[Beavis]

Yes and just how are we going to pay for this senseless war. The one that we are borrowing money to pay for. Then on top of that Dumbo and Cheney are sucking up to their corporate buddies to give amnesty to the unknown number of illegal aliens. Each and every one of them are going to have 3-10 children that are also going to need amnesty, welfare, food stamps, government housing, free health care, ect.

We have 300,000 homeless veterans in this country who went to war for us but instead of helping them we have to roll out the red carpet for a bunch of fucking wetbacks. The terrorists we need to worry about are U.S, Citizens who reside in Washington, D.C. I for one am very proud to say that I did not vote for him.

[Bart9000]

I actually sent that story suggestion to a major national newspaper......trying to demonstrate that once again, the guardians of our moral values don't hold themselves to the standards they prescribe for the rest of us.

Here is the funny thing. This prefer anal guy is probably a social liberal if he is posting on this board, but ID's with the right wing because of their bullshit about taxes, business, and economics. I actually used to be like this until I became highly educated in those subjects

B9k

[Chocha Monger]

Bart,

You forgot to mention that Rush Limbaugh is also a monger. He got busted with his remaining Viagra stash upon returning from a pussy pounding trip to the Dominican Republic.

[Bart9000]

Can you document the sources on any of your tax figures. I've seen the right wing media figures use some pretty creative math to make their cases.....or just outright lie with math.....most of their followers don't have advanced degrees in quantitative subjects. Oh yes, I know "That Rush Limbaugh is a good man, he wouldn't lie"

Just quick and dirty, people on your low end of 20-30k are in like a 15% tax bracket

People who are in the 100-200K bracket pay about 28% give or take a bit.....and by the way, they have a lot more access to tax avoidance vehicles here, but I won't get into that. I think that the top marginal rate now is like 35%

So ROUGHLY people in the high range pay on percentage basis twice as much tax

So with an equal distribution of the population between the two tax brackets, if the 20-30K set is paying 1.1, then the 100-200K should be paying 2.2%....you claim they are paying 24%

Now, are you really going to tell me that there are as many people in this country making 100-200 as there are making 20-30K.

I'm calling bullshit.


The chemical WMD thing is a mamby-pamby rationalization. The American public was sold on NUKES to have the idiot oil war

This is like the police getting massive funding to to stage a massive multi-state manhunt for a serial murderer........and then them coming back without their killer but saying......"yea, but we picked up a couple of nickel and dime pot dealers"

Yes, Saddam Hussein is a scumbag, and a ruthless cutthroat (although we are finding out the hard way that to some degree he HAD to be to keep the warring factions under control.......however, there are plenty of scumbags who are world leaders......why didn't we take them out......oh yea, they aren't major oil produces.....I suppose it is just an accident that energy prices have doubled.
B9k

[Prefer Anal]

[QUOTE=Digital Curry]"Almost everyone here seems to be missing the point.
Wake up people! The top 1/4 of 1% have received 75% of the tax cuts."

They deserve the tax cuts:

People with incomes $200,000 and over pay 42.7% of the taxes, $377 Billion.
People with incomes $100,000 to 200,000 pay 24.1% of the taxes, $213 Billion.

People with incomes $75,000 to 100,000 pay 12.8% of the taxes, $113 Billion.

People with incomes 50,000 to 75,000 pay 12.9% of the taxes $114 Billion.

People with incomes of $40,000 to 50,000 pay 4.4% of the taxes, or $39 Billion, and

people with incomes of$30,000 to 40,000 pay only 3.4% of the taxes, or $30 Billion!

Finally, people with incomes of only $20,000 to 30,000 pay only 1.1% of the taxes, or $10 Billion!

More info: the TOP 1% of income earners pay 33.6% of all the taxes!

"We captured Saddam Hussein, there were no weapons of mass destruction:"

Despite the mainstream media and the Democrats' lying to the contrary, several chemical weapons have been found that qualify as WMD. But people have ignored the evidence...since it would blow a hole in their 'Bush Lied, people died' nonsense. To be fair, the Bush Administration has done little to correct the record on this issue.

Now a new report from the Pentagon sheds some light on just how many WMDs have been found, and it's a lot. We're not just talking an old Sarin shell here and there. No less than 500 chemical weapons have been found since 2003, according to a recently declassified defense department intelligence report. The weapons are of the mustard gas and Sarin nerve gas variety...nasty stuff.

[Bart9000]

You do have some valid points. Now I generally identify with the left because they are economically paternalistic (necessary in my opinion-I don't want to start a tangent), and socially less judgemental and generally (there are exceptions-Tipper Gore had a bug up her ass about censoring song lyrics) more laizes faire. Also they embrace rationalism, and intellectualism whereas the right gets into "common sense"-simplistic answers that are mostly much more wrong than they are right.

That being said, it is problematic for me to be on the same team with the people who came up with feminism, and sexual harassment......I generally just take the position that only a simpleton blindly jumps onto one side or another, embracing whole platform regardless of whether or not it is his self interest......


B9k

[Jelly Donut]

Conventional political parties in the USA do not serve the principle interests of most of the readers on this board. Neither party is remotely interested in helping facilitate connections (of any kind) between American men and women outside the United States.

A lot of people who comment on American politics on the ISG do not seem to understand this. They have a specific line of "conservative" or "liberal" talking points, which is often short of original thinking and does not address practical questions. It's like they are on a rhetorical habitrail - although I admit sometimes thier posts are fun to read - they never deal with real ISG issues.

What do I mean by a practical question? I mean something that is tangible and important to you like, say, "why do I have to spend tons of my money to travel to Thailand or Colombia or Moldovia in order to meet these girls?" How could the laws and policies of the USA be adjusted to reduce these costs for me? How do I work the law and politics to get my girlfriend into the US for a short-term visit?

Or even more abstract practical questions like "would I trade off my dearest arguments about fiscal policy if I knew it would result in my getting laid by beautiful women on a regular basis"?

It seems to me that questions like these cut more to the core of ISG politics.

[Bart9000]

Good call Jackson.

Might I also recommend a sexpatriation thread....it's something we get into quite often on the AW board.

Some may say this thread doesn't belong on ISG....I have to maintain that it is unfortunate that there is a correlation between Amerian politics and my sex life

B9k

[Digital Curry]

Almost everyone here seems to be missing the point. United we stand divided we fall. By blaming America's problems on immigrants, for people and minorities,you are helping rich corrupt corporations to rob the country, hijack our democracy, war profiteers and diffuse working people in the United States and around the world. The racism is part of the blame game to divide the American people and hold power amongst a group of criminals who steal elections, wage illegal preemptive wars to steal oil and advance empire, and who commit ethnic cleansing in American cities like New Orleans.

Wake up people! The top 1/4 of 1% have received 75% of the tax cuts. The national debt has doubled in the last five years. The United States is going bankrupt due to a stupid war, just like the Soviet Union and the British Empire before us.

We captured Saddam Hussein, there were no weapons of mass destruction. Why are we still in Iraq? Why have oil profits skyrocketed? Could it have anything to do with the entire Bush White House been oil millionaires? But the oil millionaires do not want you to look at their wealth, so they blame the problems on Mexican and Chinese immigrants.

The immigrants are doing all the work. That's not a threat, it's a benefit. The problem is that all the money that is being generated is being stolen by war profiteers. And you tolerate it cause you prefer to blame blacks and Mexicans and Asians.

Racism has always been used by the rich in power to divide the poor and middle-class. The time has comefor rich and poor, black and white, citizen and immigrant to unite and take back the American government. The United States government belongs people. Stop being pussys, pick up your phones and call your senator and Congressman.

It's an election year for Christ sake, your congressmen is going to listen. He has to be reelected!

And to you rich guys like tax breaks, ... tax breaks to help you if the government keeps adding to your debt. Only the billionaires are getting rich.

Please wake up. the Bush administration is not conservative. They are radicals. They have nothing to do with conservatism or Republicans. They are a splinter group of neoconservative radicals.

Notice how for the next three months the price of gasoline will lower as we approach the election. And notice how it will be lots of threats and talk about terrorism. They want you to be afraid so you the Republican. If you are afraid, you will not do the patriotic thing off to these corrupt traitors out of office.

United we stand, divided we fall. Stop the division of racism, you are only hurting yourself. This is not idealism, it's a fact.

below I to the liberty of editing Bart's commentary that I agreed with. Forgive me Bart...

...social spending is a pittance relative to corporate welfare, military spending etc..... This is a non-issue drummed up to get ignorant [citizens] to vote ... Republican.

Poor people are consumers....they spend lots of money typically on high margin crap that puts money into business coffers, and causes the businesses to harness more manpower to produce more goods , probably employing other low wage workers (driving down unemployment, and increasing wages across the board), who buy more goods ...etc....put an uncorrupt (this could be tricky) UN in charge, incrementaly drop the national borders,maintain one military force for peacekeeping, let people live and work where they want to, enforce some minimal laws (about like Europe), put in some reasonable taxation, and start to take on the global problems like hunger, global warming. Now if this were done instantaneously, there would be mass chaos, but over the course of 30 years....

[Bart9000]

Ron,

I listen to Tom Leykis on a fairly regular basis.......you may note that he has a similar take on religion incidently "I understand that the person who bags my groceries has a need to believe in finding their reward in heaven"......or something to that effect

I assure you that my testicles are very large, and functioning quite well (in conjunction with a cock that is just a hair smaller than the point where women begin to complain that it is "too big"). Their function does not impede analysis or criticim however, and the expression of a desire for example that our ignorant, and unskilled and stupid (a subset that I strongly suspect probably includes yourself) being afraid of competition (from in some cases non English speakers with 6th grade eduations) not help to alleviate poverty beneath an arbitrary world border than runs below Texas, Arizona, and California is not an unmasculine one.

It does fry my brain however, that in a (for the time being-subject to change) first world country. in the 21st centuryI am being scolded and threatened with reprisal by a fairy tale from the middle ages, albeit by some marginal weirdo.

b9k

[Ron Murray]

Bart9000

Hit the Gym and start listening to www.blowmeuptom.com

He will assist you in getting your balls back.

[Bart9000]

It isn't that much different than what is being done in the European Union right now.]

While we are wandering around here way off topic, I feel somewhat compelled to comment on "Lucifer".

i personally have absolutely no problem with spirituality-whatever gets you through the night. I personally believe that there is power in the Universe that is beyond our comprehension, and how you choose to relate to it is a function of choice, and culture.

ORGANIZED RELIGION however, in my opinion is pretty much just a tool for controlling the non-governing class.....pretty much just an additional carrot and stick for keeping the working class sober, working, and hopefully only sleeping with THEIR wives. I can kind of understand where someone would go through their lives without getting a "big picture" view that would allow them to obtain this perception, and can see where some benefit may be obtained in daily living through examination of ancient accounts of behavior, parables, whatever......

However, it FRIES MY BRAIN to find that some people have a need so pronounced to have their and other's behavior regulated, that they find it necessary to constrain their own behavior through fear of eternal punishment by a fairy tale of a red horned man

B9k

[Bart9000]

If they were all coming to do shit jobs for less money it would be fine. How about when they all need welfare, free housing, free health care and food stamps? Who the fuck do you think is going to pay for that? The tax payer is. So when we already have record debt please explain to me how 50 million unskilled, uneducated workers that earn less than 12k per year is going to help the country.

I'm of the understanding that social spending is a pittance relative to corporate welfare, military spending etc.....I would sure as fuck rather have $75 tax dollars paying for a poor mexican woman's sonogram than a case of coke served to the troops by Haliburton. This is a non-issue drummed up to get ignorant white trash to vote hypocritical facist I mean Republican.

Poor people are consumers....in fact, they are much better consumers on a percentage basis than are wealthy people (this is known in economics as the marginal propensity to consume).....they spend in the aggregate, lots of money typically on high margin crap that puts money into business coffers, and causes the businesses to harness more manpower to produce more goods , probably employing other low wage workers (driving down unemployment, and increasing wages across the board), who buy more goods (I was being facetious with "crap" although there is a healthy degree of truth to it). If I remember correctly, this is known as the multiplier effect and is well substantiated.

B9k

PS It appears that this gentleman is quoting something from the far edge of conspiracy theorism, including possibly the belief in a physical "Lucifer"

I'm thinking more of a Utopian ideal (maybe I'm crazy).....put an uncorrupt (this could be tricky) UN in charge, incrementaly drop the national borders,maintain one military force for peacekeeping, let people live and work where they want to, enforce some minimal laws (about like Europe), put in some reasonable taxation, and start to take on the global problems like hunger, global warming. Now if this were done instantaneously, there would be mass chaos, but over the course of 30 years....