American Politics

[Hardbarg]

sfb9000:

you DO like to hear yourself talk.

[Sinanju Master]

if Dubya was interested in FREEING the citizenry of country X, then why didn't he free the citizens of NORTH KOREA? Their citizens are suffering (oppression, starvation, etc) under Kim Jong Il (and before HIM, Kim Il Sung) AND they are a nuclear threat! Hmm... lemme see, I guess he chose to pick on Iraq INSTEAD of North Korea because North Korea has a very sizeable army (the fourth largest on earth), nuclear weapons, China as an ally (1.3 BILLION people), and no oil. That's MY take on why Dubya and his administration are fraudulent. Not to mention that he should never have been Prez in the FIRST PLACE. His supporters would rather have a fog-minded simpleton who's God-fearing than someone who is capable and doesn't kowtow to the "Christian Mafia".

[Carlos Primeros]

Gentlemen,

I had been through most of the wars in Africa, Asia and the Balcans.

I started out in Angola and Mozambique, than my government had the brilliant idea to send me to the collapsing Vietnam. Cambodia was next before I ended in the Iraq/Iran war. This war was fun. On the Iraqi side you had been sitting behind the mine-fields watching the the Iranian boys getting their limps blown away with their green plastic key of paradies around their neck. It was really fun shooting with a GIMPY on some of the kids. Later it was some African countries and then Bosnia. It was nice killing other people just because the had been in front of your machine-gun. - DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THIS?????

In my opinion every politician who orders soldiers to the front should go first and take the first bullet. I guarantee - there will be no war in the world anymore.

Mr. Bush was defending FREEDOM of the FREE WORD in Texas during the Vietnam war. I was missing him when Saigon fell to the communists. Where was he???

Please - every poitician who is advocating war should simply come with me to see it first-hand.

But I really think that they are only interested in the amount they have on their bank-account. Right Mr. Cheney?

Carlos Primeros
deposed king of Portugal and tired of all wars in the world!

[Bart9000]

Yea man I hear you. BELIEVE ME I have better things to do than rip up morons all day and night(and there are an infinite number of them). You will notice that I originally ignored the incredibly ignorant post of this MJ whatever fucktard .....and actually my "declaration of victory" below was a big final smack before I started to ignore douchebag's brilliant "retorts"......de facto "I know you are but what am I", which could go on to infinity.

On the other hand, I am a little touchy about the assault that goes on against ration, reason and logic, having seen in the last five plus years the damage that can be done by that type of thinking (dubya "just knew" Iraq had WMD, millions of evangelicals or whatever KNOW that they are the "chosen people" and the only ones going to heaven, and that everyone who believes anyting else needs to be "corrected".....at the expense of their freedom and civil rights). Now I do realize I can lash out and explain logical arguments against room temperature IQ's like these two all day long to no effect (and it really doesn't matter, because most likely they aren't in a position to affect the world at large). But then they aren't the only ones reading.............Now fortunately, most of the actual POWER moving engaged in the direction has been neutralized (ironically the premise of the original post that started this little war)..........but the defense of liberty requires eternal vigilance.....even on the internet

B9k

[Sinanju Master]

I'm gonna wear a white and black striped jersey. Guys this flame war is a waste of time and it can be draining on the combatants. Several years ago, I was in a flame war with another poster over what I thought was his misguided thinking. After thinking about his comments that led to the war, and doing a little introspection, I actually came to the conclusion he was right and I was wrong. Looking back on the war, it unnecessarily took a lot of my time that could have been better spent doing other things. Thinking about how to "return fire" in order to lay waste to your opponent is a waste of time. Also, it's not productive regarding the purpose of the title of the board. I'm not telling you not to fight ('cos I know you'll continue without my intervention, anyway) but do you really want to plot all day, thinking about a witty, slicing remark that will "put my enemy in his place"? I'm probably the LAST guy who should be saying this for fear of appearing to be on a high horse, but let's get back to intelligent discourse. <blowing whistle to resume play>

[Bart9000]

I'm sure that this is going to be lost on you, but I was MAKING a POINT with my gross and depraved comments about third world boy's soccer teams. Your brother in stupidity, douchebag doesn't understand that one needs to do more than MAKE a statement about someting in order for it to be a factual truth.

I was going to let someone else straighten you out in the interest of not being involved in a flame war, but now that you bring it up, YOU are a fucking moron, too.


The UN-Yea, multi-lateral decision making is a REAL bad idea (you get the sarcasm right?). Let's see here-WE think invading IRAQ is a good idea. France and Germany don't. Hmmmm maybe we should listen to someone who has a different perspective for example before we start a war FOR NO FUCKING REASON, that is probably going to end up killing well over one million INNOCENT citizens of Iraq, not to mention our casualties, including the what (I can't remember the exact number) huge number of maimed and mangled solldiers......or the national debt......you understand that WE get to pay that right....and here you are crying about taxes. I can't definitively verify this to be true, but I'm inclined to believe it-each American taxpayer's share of the Iraq war is currently just a hair nder $30,000.


The EU -is slowly, methodically wiping out poverty in Eastern Europe through free trade and mobility of labor..........basically slowly turning "Prague into Paris". Fuck, I could even see them in 20-30 years starting to expand into the North African countries to continue the process there.

And I don't even know where to start with your assertions that we should have HELPED the Serbs commit ethnic genocide against Muslims. Prejudiced bigoted fuck just for starters. You do understand that people who aren't like you are also human beings right?

Your logic: Some Muslims are terrorists. So we should destroy all Muslims (by supporting an ethnic cleansing).

Well here is the problem with that. SOME AMERICANS are terrorists. Does the name Tim McVeigh ring any bells? How about Ted Kazinski? Didn't the individual mailing anthrax turn out to be a local boy too? By your logic, since SOME Americans are terrorists, it would be OK for someone to wipe us out.

Guantanamo-given that you seem to think that ethnic genocide is a good idea, you probably don't have a problem with the concept of a potentially innocent men rotting their lives away in a jail cell for the duration of a theoretically indefinite war. Well I do. The Bush administration says these are "bad people" (and I'm not saying that some of them aren't). Well we've all seen their track record on being correct.

Wire Tapping-See my comments about trending towards fascism

B9k

[MJG Dogs]

Jesus Christ Bart- stop the comments about third world boy's soccer teams. That is way over the line. Actually if you want my opinion, you come accross as
a egotistical fool who does not have enough smarts to know when he has gone over the line. realistically I don't give a shit if you gave hardbag a thumping, nor do the other 3,000 + others whom read this thread. Nobody gives a fuck. Okay????? Bill Clinton wouldn't give a fuck either,

[Bart9000]

.....I have definitively shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no reason, ration, or logic in the things that you "think".

.....I have caused the probably 3-400 people who read this thread to envision you (most probably the stereotypical "ugly monger"- mid fiftyish, smuggling a basketball under a ratty T-shirt, pathetically deluded that the girl "really loves the way I give it to her"), both giving Rush Limbaugh a rimjob, as well as a pre-pubescent third world boy's soccer team a post game tonguebath.

I'm declaring myself to be the unqualified victor. Don't get the idea that I'm bragging, as giving you "a thumpin" wasn't much of a challenge.

So go right ahead and make all the glib little comments that you want (you may actually be dumb enough to believe that they are in effect more than the often mentioned random pounding on the keyboard)...........

But do be completely assured that you have been pimp slapped, ***** slapped, taken to the woodshed, and sent to bed with no dinner.

B9k

[Hardbarg]

sfb9000:

you DO like to hear yourself talk.

[MJG Dogs]

Maybe this thread is a waste of time. My god what are my choices.??

The Cake and Croissant Democrats-

Raise taxes on everyone- They lie when they say they want tax cuts for the Middle class- To the Dems , anyone making over $ 10K USD per year is Upper Class.

Appeasement and taking marching orders from The UN and The goddam EU
Why would any American want to listen to these two organizations. The UN needs to get out, the american people need to throw them out of here. And the goddam Europeans, who still do not get it. They are toothless, and cannot resolve political conflict. We then fall into their trap, for fighting for them, eg: The Balkans-The euros wanted to protect the muslims against the Serbs, who were smart enough to see that the Kosivars were terriorists and wanted to kill them. Whom did we bomb- The Serbs, WRONG CHOICE. Yet the Dems drool over these two worhless organizations.

Gitmo and rights for terriorist- WTF? Do you clowns on the left think that Iran, Al-Queda etc.. give any captured combatants any rights? No, usually they hold them for ransom, or cut their throtas like sheep in the slaughterhouse.

Wire tapping- So What..... Why not I it can stop an attack.


Now for the Republicans and the Christians........


Abortion- Do the christains want to adopt all of these kids that are unwanted? ya, I am pro-choice, but hate the late term shit, but who am I to say what is moral? And who is the congress? Roe vs Wade is law, leave it alone.

Tax breaks for churches- make them pay, instead of pandering to them, tax Jesus also- for in America- Jesus is a corporation, preaches make money, they are not passing the hat at church for your salvation, but for Brother Leon's new cadillac, or Pastor Fred's now Explorer.

Illegal Immigration- The republicans are MUCH WORSE than the democrats on this, except for Tancredo and a few others, who understand the real issue. The rest of the republican turn a blind eye for they are in bed with the corporations that hire these illegals, thus depressing wages and causing the taxpayers to pay for medical, welfare, Social security etc.. for them. At least with the Dems you know what their aganda is as far as illegals.

Corruption- Too many reoublicans getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar, at least the DEMS are smarter in covering their tracks, except for Jefferson from Louisiana, for which nothing will happen, for you see in America black politicians can do as they please, without punishment in most cases, because the media protects them and whites are afraid of being called racists. But the Abranoff scandal really taints the republicans.

Internet gambling ban and tightening of restrictions on foreign marraiage agencies- Government needs to stay out of this- This again was led by the far right, the Chrisitans were behind the tightening on the marraige agenices, for you see the christain right wants us to marry the goddam fat overweight white woman that goes to church, and gets angrey when we marry the much younger colombiana or girl from Asia.

Also get Politicians from all walks of life in there. We may get fresher ideas and get the stench of Lawyers out of there

[Bart9000]

Want to know the difference between me and you?


You say that I'm not worth the effort.

I've PROVEN that you aren't.


B9k

[Hardbarg]

You just don't get it. You're not worth the effort.

[Bart9000]

It's bad enough trying to clean up your sloppy thinking, I don't have to deal with your sloppy presentation.

And here we have the dual rationalization/insult........still just "noise" of course, which means nothing but...........

Do you really think anyone believes that you have some brilliant counter-argument sandbagged, but refuse to present it on the grounds that you find my "sloppy thinking" (which I posit is actually inasmuch as that phrase has meaning at all that, that YOU who are engaging in it as YOU are the one who can't use logic and reason), and sloppy formatting objectionable.

Do you know why you can't argue with me? Because your ideology is based not in reason and rational thought, but instead in ignorance, "feelings", and "common sense" (self serving, comforting, drivel).

So, at this time, I will repeat MYSELF. The world REALLY needs the input from people like you (see above) about the way that it should be run, and you should shut the fuck up and go back to giving Rush Limbaugh a rimjob.

B9k

[Hardbarg]

It's bad enough trying to clean up your sloppy thinking, I don't have to deal with your sloppy presentation.

[Bart9000]

.....pathetic rationalization!!!!!!!!

The substitution of a rational pretext for a real reason, with an implication of self-delusion or hypocrisy; the improvisation of a plausible reason for a human action when one either does not realize the real reason or seeks to keep it secret; the use of a false but reasonable justification or interpretation of an attitude or action, which appears to be unsatisfactory or contrary to accepted reasoning, when one is either ashamed or not aware of his actual motive. HA. 78-79; TH. 280-82.
www.mises.org/easier/R.asp

Lets have Lesson 2: (Subtitled-"How not to be an irrational ignorant moron")

A "sound argument" generally consists of two things. A conclusion, and factual, valid supporting evidence (I may be using incorrect terminology)

When an argument is put forth, and is sound, it is presumed to be the winner, unless the other side can do one of two things:

1: Prove that the supporting evidence is not factual.

2. Prove that the supporting evidence which MAY in fact BE factual, does not suport the conclusion that is drawn from it as the premise of the argument. .


These are the ONLY things that "knock down" a "sound" argument, and making it "unsound", thus making the holder of the opposing position the winner of the debate.

Included in the list of things that DO NOT make an opposing argument "unsound" are some of the following:

Logical Fallacies (Ad Hominem and others)

Insults-"You are childish" "You are a sloppy thinker"

Rationalizations, such as "You just aren't worth it", "I'm not even going to read that because the formatting is terrible"


Reiterating, until you come up with a way to either prove that my supporting points are non-factual, or do not support my conclusion, you LOSE the argument. End of story. You can protest, rationalize deny and insult all day long, but that is all just basically pointless meaningless "noise".

Later, we'll deconstruct your last pathetic attempt to do this.

B9k