FKK Golden Gate / old Villa Vertigo in Grefrath NRW

[Cynical]

I'm the guy with the sizable camera and MacBook, and I can tell you nothing sinister was happening. I am a professional photographer and half the photos on their blog are mine.

I was indeed on a gig, and never photographed any guests, just girls for the blog and the facilities. If you look at the blog you will see that any member face was blurred out if he was accidentally on a shot that we wanted to use.

I also am a monger, so you have seen me with a bathrobe or with clothes while on assignment.

[Peter]

bernds was the first sauna club, but the atmosphere, size and pricing were all different than what the current nrw base is. that was PHG. Babylon also predates phg, but those were always smaller clubs with max of 25 girls working, with blowjobs on the sofas and stuff. PHG was the giant club at the time, with up to 100 girls regularly working. Back then wildenrath was the one that was fully FKK, and more expensive and a bit wilder and more clubby. He took the idea form the termas in brazil combined with what bernds had done, and at a similar time mauro in frankfurt was doing oase.

[Chicafan]

I crossed PHG off my list years ago and I believe I've described why in great detail elsewhere.

Goldentime is the only club in this area I'd consider visiting.

You're a snob! I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to visit PHG once in a while. I'll say this though, about a year and a half ago I met a really great girl at LR- I went to LR because it was the sister club of GT where I had already visited and enjoyed immensely. Anyway, this girl was only at LR for the night and normally worked PHG. She said PHG usually had 60 girls, mostly very attractive. I did not realize it was only 20-30 easy minutes from GT so I went my next trip, in search of her. I really really liked PGH my first few visits. It doesn't have the size and facilities of GT but was much more personal and intimate with some very good girls. I've had some nights and sessions at PHG that made Brazilian termas seem "so so"- where I couldn't keep track there were so many terrific girls. That said, it seems like some things have happened there that coincided with the opening of VV but not necessarily related, since few of the PHG girls moved permanently to VV. There are more reports of fewer guys and girls at PHG and a less festive atmosphere. I could be reading the situation wrong and there is always are peaks and valleys. But I do wonder if PHG has fallen back a little. If there is a better club in the area than PHG aside from GT I would like to know.

[Jackyo]

If this guy invented NRW saunaclubs then we owe him a great debt in producing a fantastic model that appears to work inside the law and provide top notch adult entertainment.

Kind regardss

Londonbasketcase

Don't know dates and details but Bernd (I understand he's long gone) came up with concept.

[Dedalus]

And I have no idea what deda is on about, I never saw pictures being taken.
.

Hey Peter,

I hesitate to go into too many details about this for a number of reasons; the main one being that I was not present when the really disturbing incidents took place. Those details were related to me by trusted and well experienced board members who also happen to be Gentleman of the finest kind whose word is unimpeachable in my experience.

However I can say that on my two visits to the place that there was a guy with an Macbook and rather nice and sizable camera and tripod taking shots of the place in the main area to the right of the reception. I did not think much of it at the time because I never noticed them taking shots of me, although who knows what was going on while I was napping. The guys was clad in a robe and appeared to be a regular guest and not a professional photographer on a gig.

The Gents in question likely do not want to make too big a deal of the situation. I think that Beffen has written a little about it and it has been referred to on another board.

Basically it comes down to two things: a) Whether or not the owner or management has the right to take unauthorized photos of Gents who visit Villa Vertigo and, b) Whether or not the owner and management are justified in removing for the club guest who dare to complain about such treatment.

The guys who were the victims of this have a legitimate beef in my opinion. And if the management ousted them simply to make room for new guest (and new entrance fees), then this is also inexcusable.

I can't see how I personally can reward the place with my patronage in either case.

However, I hope that we can meet up at GT or LR next month when the rest of the guys show up. I'll keep you posted.

Cheerio,

Dedalus

[Basketcase]

I know that the owner of VV has been looking for girls, he has been on many trips to russia, poland and brazil looking for talent.

It has been a bunch of years since he was actively involved in the day to day of clubs,a dn back when he was involved were the heydays of PHG and Wildenrath.

Basically the owner of VV pretty much invented NRW FKK's as we know them......

He got back in with VV, sor tof like an old master getting back into the game. He built the place right, he talked some of the best girls of the past into workingn there, but Laura from Latvia, Natasa and co are not really the draws now that they were 6 years ago.

Peter,

Is the gentleman that you refer to the tall bald headed man that you see wearing a blazer and jeans workign the floor and directing staff at Villa Vertigo. I understood from others that he was both the owner and manager of VV.

If this guy invented NRW saunaclubs then we owe him a great debt in producing a fantastic model that appears to work inside the law and provide top notch adult entertainment.

Kind regardss

Londonbasketcase

[Jackyo]

LOL!! Do you seriously suggest that those conditions would ever really prevail? This is a scenario that would never exist, oder?

Ortos

This little corner of NRW is experiencing a club arms race and such a concentration of talent it is about ready to implode.

As it stands now, Wildenrath hasn't kept up with the rest of the other clubs for various reasons (confusing pricing being amongst them).

I crossed PHG off my list years ago and I believe I've described why in great detail elsewhere.

Goldentime is the only club in this area I'd consider visiting.

I cannot comment on Yin Yang as I've never been.

[Peter]

I know that the owner of VV has been looking for girls, he has been on many trips to russia, poland and brazil looking for talent.

It has been a bunch of years since he was actively involved in the day to day of clubs,a dn back when he was involved were the heydays of PHG and Wildenrath. Wildenrath has gone fully downhill since the current manager took over about 3 years ago and brought his family in in a big way.

The way PHG sort of disowned him is that they pay the official rent that is listed in the rental agreement, but the significantly higher daily rent fee that was never listed is no longer paid to him, but the big biker guys take a reduced rate.

Basically the owner of VV pretty much invented NRW FKK's as we know them.....Hof did exist before PHG, but PHG and Wildenrath in the mid 90's is what made this a viable business. They went to the eastern european countries, set up the immigration loopholes to get some of the girls into legal status in Germany and made the places into cash machines....but other clubs have come up in the meantime,a dn he got more and more out of the business.

He got back in with VV, sor tof like an old master getting back into the game. He built the place right, he talked some of the best girls of the past into workingn there, but Laura from Latvia, Natasa and co are not really the draws now that they were 6 years ago.

If you know the early days of GT, you know that Tom, the ex manager of PHG had spent monmths at PHG collecting phone numbers of the top girls there to keep trying to talk them into jumping ship. It took 6 months for them to get the place halfway decent.

I have been at VV with decent girls, but the last trip was the worst. And I have no idea what deda is on about, I never saw pictures being taken.

I mean my best club visits in years were the last 3 to Babylon which was a forgotten club and way off my radar. They got themselves 3 good new girls and it changed my experience 100 fold.......isabelle was the best girl I had met in a club in years, sadly she might be back out of the game again as quickly as she came....

[Iseeu]

Ha!

I've not been yet but here again appears to be a typical Teufelskreis situation: the women want to work at clubs where there are lots of customers, the customers only want to visit clubs where there are enough women but there aren't enough women (or rather enough women of certain selection standards) at this club because there aren't enough customers, and round and round it goes.

I never rush to visit a new club as it need to go through a shakedown cruise phase before it gets its act together.

Unfortunately, great "hardware" (meaning physical facilities) won't make up for substandard "software".

There are economic and marketing methods used in other businesses that could be implemented here to break out of this type of vicious cycle. I alluded to this when I asked in my post if it wouldn't make sense for the management, who already have a pretty high investment in the place, to guarantee a minimum income to some of the local high class SP for a period of time, and start to generate some positive business flow? That would revert the cycle; more SP= more customers= more SP= MOre customers, etc.

As Peter and others have remarked, they're getting the clientele in the door. Problem is that the management isn't keeping them in the club, and the customers aren't spending enough once they get inside. Basic retail strategy is to maximize the revenue per customer, and provide a satisfactory experience so that the customer will come back rather than going to the store down the road. They're going down on both counts.

There was obviously a large investment made here in hardware (great analogy), but they need to invest a little more to get the right software, or those great hardware features will remain underutilized and their investment will burn away.

There lots of new classy restaurants that open, into which the initial owners plow their savings and build a really great place, with the best kitchen equipment, specially designed furniture, fixtures and decor, deluxe cutlery and dishes, and prime location, only to close soon afterwards because the food/ambience/buzz isn't attractive enough and the slow turnover and high operating costs, make it difficult for the owners to meet the interest payments on the loans that they needed to finance their dreams. Then the next guy comes in, with no investment, tweaks the menu and reaps the benefit of the original owner's hard work and dreams.

All I'm saying is that they should tweak their menu, before it's too late.

[Ortos]

A likely scenario for dropping on this place would be that I am in the area, have had my fill at the other neighboring clubs and want to take a day off to do nothing but relax. I'd set low expectations and maybe they might be exceeded.

LOL!! Do you seriously suggest that those conditions would ever really prevail? This is a scenario that would never exist, oder?

Ortos

[Jackyo]

How much time should be given to a new club to get through a shakedown cruise? 4 months, 8 months...a year? Myself, id probably say a year...by next spring we should see the true VV.

If the ownership of Wildenrath and they continue the same approach they used at Wildenrath, it may never get its act together.

A likely scenario for dropping on this place would be that I am in the area, have had my fill at the other neighboring clubs and want to take a day off to do nothing but relax. I'd set low expectations and maybe they might be exceeded.

[Dedalus]

except there are enough men visiting this club.

and to the rumor of free entry with entry at PHG, I would have to call BS on that.

The owner of both properties is the same person, but at PHG he was more or less disowned by the management who got themselves some big muscular biker dudes from a well known organisation as muscle and basically changed the locks. If you see some muscular dudes with TCB tattoos, then you know the score.

So the owner fo the property (Who also owns wildenrath) decided to invest some money to make a nicer club just down the street, and that is Villa Vertigo....so I think the chances that he would give free entry to anyone who was still frequenting PHG is slim to none.

Hey Peter,

It's been a while. Almost figured that you had dropped out of the scene.

Does the VV owner think that it's OK for people to go around photographing other people without their permission?

Like you, I want to like this club. There are even a few girls there who would make the place worth a visit for me. But I got a big problem with such indiscretion on the part of a club's managemnet or owner.

Drop me a PM. Some dudes and myself will be up NRW way next month. Might be cool to hook up.

Cheers,

Dedalus

[Chicafan]

The owner of both properties is the same person, but at PHG he was more or less disowned by the management who got themselves some big muscular biker dudes from a well known organisation as muscle and basically changed the locks. If you see some muscular dudes with TCB tattoos, then you know the score.

So the owner fo the property (Who also owns wildenrath) decided to invest some money to make a nicer club just down the street, and that is Villa Vertigo....so I think the chances that he would give free entry to anyone who was still frequenting PHG is slim to none.

I don't follow the logic here. How could the owner of PHG be disowned by his management?

[Peter]

except there are enough men visiting this club.

and to the rumor of free entry with entry at PHG, I would have to call BS on that.

The owner of both properties is the same person, but at PHG he was more or less disowned by the management who got themselves some big muscular biker dudes from a well known organisation as muscle and basically changed the locks. If you see some muscular dudes with TCB tattoos, then you know the score.

So the owner fo the property (Who also owns wildenrath) decided to invest some money to make a nicer club just down the street, and that is Villa Vertigo....so I think the chances that he would give free entry to anyone who was still frequenting PHG is slim to none.

[Breadman]

I never rush to visit a new club as it need to go through a shakedown cruise phase before it gets its act together.

How much time should be given to a new club to get through a shakedown cruise? 4 months, 8 months...a year? Myself, id probably say a year...by next spring we should see the true VV.