The Morality of Prostitution

[Skinless]

Dear Mr Zop: I did not mean to suggest that you were using the language of Mr Bush's latest enemy. Rather, I was making a somewhat cynical comment on ladies I bonked in Bangkok. It is all a game. Linking you to merde was more a comment on your flowery language than your sentiments (I have to understand your language before I can understand what you mean). Anyway, I am busy right now with work and mistresses so go in peace. I meant no harm.

As regards Ms RN' predicament, the simplet thing would be to ask the lad if she wanted an affair. These ladies have, after all, heard it all before. Who knows what might come of it? So, goodbye for some time yet. The bedroom calls.

[Joe Zop]

Where did I say l'amour? I most pointedly did not -- I said desire. The romantic notion is always irrevocably tied to the tragic, and to the hopelessness of getting sustained happiness, and that's precisely what the tableau you describe lays out.

[Skinless]

"a perfect little petri dish of primal human desire and foolishness, my own included"

Mr Zop, you are full of shit. The wife is away right now and I have a young lodger/bed mate who is crazy about me but is into the most bizarre sex games. I feel sorry for her and hope she does not have a nervous breakdown or screw me over in a big way.
This is what we do when the orgy is over.
And the mermaid thing is still there. In my more pensive moments, I think of those women I screwed, putting the jelly on them, pumping away and both of us miles away. L'amour. I think not.

[Joe Zop]

I suspect you're exactly right about risking the chance with her -- it's pretty hard to put the genie back in the bottle and go away from customer/provider. If there's truly the possibility of anything being there, you probably need to wait to see if she comes to you, as opposed to go back to her. In many ways this echoes some of the "if only we'd met under different circumstances" regrets many of us have when finding someone where we sense a greater connection. Because the relationship has already been established as a monetary one it's best to just say, oh well, and move on. Rather like meeting the woman/man of your dreams and discovering they've already met and married theirs.

I've always thought the concept of a "spare" was a wonderful but mostly unworkable one, as it's pretty hard to ensure that both people have and keep the same level of desire for emotional involvement/disinvolvement. I've had a couple of offers in that direction and always shied away because it seems like great potential for pain for one or the other person.

By the way, RN, aren't you changing your song here? Seems to me that you've identified yourself as bisexual here before. If nothing else, especially after waxing rhapsodic here over your recent attraction/experience, such a denial sounds at least a wee bit disingenuous!

And I'm sorry, but unless you're going to go borrow some fluids, you're just not gonna manage to treat working women as "sperm buckets" or some such other lovely terminology as Z*lda was prone to using. I say this as someone who agrees with him that the "see her one time and never again" approach is definitely the emotionally safest one, though not agreeing it's necessarily the best. Depends on what you want. (For what it's worth, his perspective seems to me to be precisely the one so reviled by feminists who talk about prostitution as "male masturbation using female bodies" a characterization which I've always thought contained simultaneously both a germ of truth and a far greater misunderstanding of male sexuality.)

DH, now that David's posting again I think I've got some competition for that "romanticist" mantle, and I'd argue that in any event Skinless may truthfully deserve it more than I do, his hinterlands "Heart of Sexual Darkness" tours notwithstanding. He's the one who started waxing ecstatically about mermaids, (though I did definitely join in) and who keeps in touch with the life of a provider he's not seen in a year or two. (All this noted with nothing but affection, Skinless!) He's confessed to loving the hopelessness of it all, whereas I may be obsessed with and talk too much about it, but I don't love the tragedy. I see it more as a perfect little petri dish of primal human desire and foolishness, my own included. Regardless, clearly no one can at all challenge your exaulted station!

[Rubber Nursey]

Ahhh Dickhead. Always the voice of reason.

1) I am never going to become a "mongerette" - not unless I win the Lottery! That was a one-off, and unfortunately, a repeat will be well out of my reach for a very long time.

2) Nope...not gay. I've felt this way about a number of men in my time. This is only the second time I've felt this way about a woman (and the other was just a crush. I never touched her). I've not really talked about a man on this board, because I haven't been personally involved with one in the time that I've been here.
Oh, and I'm not bisexual either - I'm just...errrr...greedy! *grin*

Also (in case you're all thinking I'm a total idiot for falling for a hooker after just two nights!), I have had a crush on this particular girl for well over 6 months. I think sleeping with her (for money) was probably not the most intelligent choice I could have made. It changes the whole dynamic of the situation, and I guess I may never know whether or not she would have slept with me just because she wanted me. D'oh.


Joe,
I still don't think I want to be in a relationship - like you said, I just miss the GOOD things about being in one. I don't see myself actually committing to her (or anyone else), but it would be nice to have what's affectionately known here as a 'spare'. Someone that you know cares about you, and you about them, who you have 'on hand' for when the urge strikes you. Otherwise, you both have seperate lives (and see other people).

Thank you so much for sharing your feelings on this with me guys. Especially David...I will reply to your email shortly. I do appreciate it. And it has certainly added to my 'understanding clients' experience!

It was the second time that did me over. Too much passion, too much softness, too many shared jokes and knowing smiles. If I ever DO go to see another girl - I'll make sure I only see her once and then forget about her!!

Oh my God....I'm turning into Ze*lda!!!!!

[PurpleNGold]

Originally posted by RN
...do you start feeling really sad and lonely and pathetic???

This depends on the type of session.

If I feel the urge to splooge and go out and shoot my rocks in a wham-bam session with a good, but all-business provider, then I feel satisfied afterwards--without thought to the lonelieness issue. It's like, okay, physical need taken care of, back to life.

However, after the extended, week-long session with a bg in Thailand, I did feel the loneliness acutely. Coming back to America, I definitely felt the absence of a connection with someone.

But, I've adopted a healthy outlook when it comes to confusing great sex with real connection: The great sex ends when the reality of the relationship intrudes.

[David]

*Laughs*. Probably ... but it would seem easy to lose your humanity.

[Joe Zop]

Ah, David, but in this case the drug might be far safer!

[David]

RN, JZ,

Thank you for your replies. This idea of a balancing act between intimacy and anonymity does sound … fundamental.

RN,

About your experience. Hmm. Strange as it may seem for me to say, I am quite sure I would feel the same (at least at this stage in my life). This is a large part of the reason it never happened.

A profound feeling. (Both the glow and the regret…)

I would never dare to try Joe's drug. Far too dangerous. In some sense it is ok to be helplessly addicted to people, but to a drug?!?! *Smiles*.

David

P.S. RN, I've sent you an e-mail at angie_sweet...

[Dickhead]

Allow me to weigh in with two observations:

1). If RN is going to be a successful mongerette, she needs to become much more of a Dickhead.

2). This story gives me the impression that RN may not be bisexual but rather gay, since I haven't heard her express this type of feelings about any guy. But then again, she says it's been a long time since she's been with a guy in a non-professional capacity so it could be a coincidence.

Now regarding

"and you think about how wonderful it was to have someone to hold you, and it makes you realise how little affection you actually get in your life...

...do you start feeling really sad and lonely and pathetic???"

that is more similar to what I feel before I go mongering. Afterwards I feel like having a few beers and watching some baseball.

So now you have the viewpoints of both the board's incurable romantic (JZ) and its incorrigible

Dickhead

[Joe Zop]

Well, RN, perhaps your response here needs to be considered against your statement that you don't really see yourself getting involved with someone. Your recent experience and reaction to it obviously demonstrates desire for the good side of the relationship equation -- though I know you've had your fill of the bad side. Who doesn't need to be loved?

In terms of clients falling for you -- well, honestly, that's part of what you're selling, right? That enjoyment and caring just happens to have a clock and meter attached to it, and that's the part clients try to do away with, not understanding that it's integrally connected to the responses they want.

As far as the whole "women getting laid thing" I still think it's true that an attractive woman has far less trouble getting laid than an attractive man, if she decides that's specifically what she wants. All it takes are the two things that many (most?) men have in abundance -- low standards and a willingness to expose oneself to large portions of potential trouble. Your chances at walking up to someone and getting the desired response from simply saying, "I'm unbelieveable horny, come with me now and do something about it" are still simply much higher than mine. Now, if you want sanity and safety attached to the equation, that's an entirely different story...

[Rubber Nursey]

It's downright depressing.

And you're right - I can certainly see why clients get so obsessed sometimes. Actually, it's helped me see why so many clients have become obsessed with ME over the years. I have always made it very clear that it was a business, that I didn't love them, etc...and yet they still fell like flies. Now I think I know what it was. It was because I genuinely enjoyed their company and I genuinely enjoyed the sex. That must have come across to them, and perhaps they talked themselves into believing that I felt more for them than I was letting on.

The fact that this girl was so into it (although, granted we do have a little more of a 'history' than a client normally would with a worker they just picked out of a line-up) made my mind play tricks with me. No, I didn't expect her to fall head over heels in love, or ask me out or anything...but, well, it just makes it harder to accept that the experience wasn't real. I keep thinking about her kissing me - hookers don't kiss!! - and my heart aches with a pitiful lonliness.

You see...this is why I get so pissed off with all these guys who continually say that women have no trouble getting laid. I don't remember the last time I had sex that I wasn't paid to have!! And I sorely miss having someone to tell me that they love me.

Ohhhhh sorry. Just had to get that off my chest. Thanks Joe.

[Joe Zop]

RN, I think the "This is what I have to do to get that in my life?" feeling is a pretty core one -- who wouldn't prefer that such an experience be the norm as opposed to the exception, and an exception you have to purchase at that? I think that sense is the core of much of the anger you see on this board at times, which is mostly profound regret at not having that connection all the time -- the great promise sold to us in literature, TV, movies, etc. It's tough to get enough of having physical closeness and having positive attention lavished on us.

If someone ever distills and bottles something that gives the feeling of that afterglow, it will be the most addictive drug ever to hit the street. I'll be first in line.

This also explains how guys get obsessed with providers, and how the urge to change the client/provider relationship into something else can be so strong.

[Rubber Nursey]

I think I may be currently going through another aspect of the client experience.

This question is probably a little too personal, but tell me guys....

Once the euphoria wears off and you come down from cloud nine - and you think about the fact that no matter how great your 'connection' was with her, she doesn't belong to you - and you know that you may never see her again - and you think about how wonderful it was to have someone to hold you, and it makes you realise how little affection you actually get in your life...

...do you start feeling really sad and lonely and pathetic???

Or is that just me.....

[Joe Zop]

There are a bunch of those clubs, aren't there? I remember reading a Time mag article about them a couple of years ago that said the clientele was divided -- sex workers later but office workers early. I don't know of equivalents elsewhere -- do you (or anyone else?) Makes you wonder what it is about Japanese culture particularly that makes them so popular -- maybe it's that Japanese men, out of all those in the world, do the absolute least amount of chores in the home -- a quarter of that of American men and and an eighth that of Swedish men. American women do a bit more than twice as much, where Japanese women do more than seven times as much as their male counterparts. Sounds like grounds for a good pampering to me!