Phnom Penh

[Jan 156]

As a regular visitor to Phnom Penh, I know that one night in Martini I spotted a quite hot Khmer girl. I watched as one after another approached her and chatted with her. One after another they left her standing alone there (actually she was with a female friend). Four different guys did this over the course of about 30 minutes. Finally I took my shot. It seemed easy -- within 5 minutes we'd agreed to go to my hotel. When we got back there, as soon as we were in my room she hit me with the price: $70, til 2am. It was 11pm now.

I wonder what some of you guys would have done in that situation. She was by far the most gorgeous girl there that night. There'd be no chance of finding anything close if I went out again. It was my last night before leaving the country.

The Cambodia forum does seem to get a bit stroppy at times, doesn't it?

Interesting conundrum, and I'm sure there's lots of easy answers when you weren't actually there. The easy one is 'I would have agreed the price before taking her back' but sometimes there's a feeling of trust and the sense of being 'had' comes out of the blue. What did you in fact do? (if you feel you can tell us without the know-alls trying to roast you lol.)

A field report's a field report. And if someone 'overpays' then they are not going to ask for the money back cos of forum comments. The best people can do is relate their own experiences and people might perhaps bargain better next trip. The odd monger 'overpaying' does not, IMO, spoil it for everyone cos most mongers don't come on ISG and they will be the bulk of overpayers. And girls who net extra bucks when they see the opportunity may just be smart hustlers, not spoilt.

My guess is you said yes at some point, it being your last night. It's a personal decision when you sum up the situation. I always tell girls I'm there for a long time. I give them examples of what I usually pay. But maybe, being an exceptional looker and maybe preferring to go without than go for a regular price, she was hanging out for that 'special customer.' (or mug if that's how you see it in retrospect). She would know the going rate at Martinis, so even if she wanted to charge more for good looks it would be fair to assume a percentage mark-up rather than a hike.

Bottom line - how good was she in the sack (if you did her) and how did you feel about the experience in retrospect? If the sex was the experience of a lifetime, you maybe didn;t have too many hard feelings, even if you paid over the odds and wouldn't do a repeat. If it wasn't, or if you beat yourself up about the price paid, then you made the wrong decision.

I had the experience once in another country where I was trying to get an all-nighter with a gorgeous girl - she was far, far better than anyone else available. She wouldn't budge on the usual rates. I figured she liked hanging out with her friends and doing short-time business on the side. So I made her an offer she couldn't refuse. It wasn't outrageous by going rates but it was more than a beginner (as she was) would know to ask for. She was awesome. If I told friends how much I paid they gave me the usual tongue lashing. But when I showed them photos they not only shut up but obsessively tried to get her contact details, which was quite funny.

Don't worry about the stick, just keep posting reports. To those that moan, remember that if you berate someone until they don't give reports or tell us what they paid, it doesn't mean they didn't have the experience - just that they don't tell us. Go figure.

[Wendella]

OK I just went back and read through these posts because I didn't get what was going on, why Pedro got so bent out of shape. It seemed as if they were having a civil conversation and then... boom!

Now Hippie has what I'd call a natural tone of arrogance and condescension -- a know-it-all way of delivering everything he says. Fair enough. It's pretty typical of the way people write here, nothing too far out of the ordinary.

Both these guys are in Phnom Penh and believe they know the ropes, and feel like the guy who's saying the opposite doesn't know what he's talking about. So the solution for both: take what the other guy says with a grain of salt, and express that politely. Keep in mind that these girls treat different people differently, that we don't all look the same or are as slick at playing the game as one another.

There'll be no chairs thrown in the baggage claim, guys.

As a regular visitor to Phnom Penh, I know that one night in Martini I spotted a quite hot Khmer girl. I watched as one after another approached her and chatted with her. One after another they left her standing alone there (actually she was with a female friend). Four different guys did this over the course of about 30 minutes. Finally I took my shot. It seemed easy -- within 5 minutes we'd agreed to go to my hotel. When we got back there, as soon as we were in my room she hit me with the price: $70, til 2am. It was 11pm now.

I wonder what some of you guys would have done in that situation. She was by far the most gorgeous girl there that night. There'd be no chance of finding anything close if I went out again. It was my last night before leaving the country.

[Betong]

So maybe we shall both have to meet you at the airport. Then we can show you the way it is done.

Hey, I don't want to take sides, but I'm always up for a good airport rumble! Since the arrival gates are inside the security zone, I suggest the baggage carousel area. That way we can all come!

And er . . . what exactly was the problem negotiating prices with PP hostess bar girls? Yes, they tend to ask too much these days. So you offer less. Sometimes you reach an agreement, sometimes not. It really is that simple.

[Pedro Chilli]

Hippie is absolutly correct in what he is saying.

Who are you, god? Absolutes dont exist. How long have you spent in Cambo, can you speak Khmer? You are too dumb to pick up hippies snide condescending use of words. It takes a lot to wind me up but he has succeeded.

[Shadow6491]

Hippie is absolutly correct in what he is saying. So maybe we shall both have to meet you at the airport. Then we can show you the way it is done.

At Hosstess bars one of the simplest ways to bring up price is to simply say "You know I really like you and would like to go to a hotel with you but you know I live here and dont pay the same prices as the stupid tourists"

The usual reply is "yes I know how much will you give me" or "upto you, I like you to"

You can then say "Well I normally give girls $10 for a ST"

[Pedro Chilli]

[QUOTE=Hippie]You just identified the probable cause without realizing it, QUOTE]

You condescending fuck. I was in a haze in the morning when i read your report.

I arrive back in PP on 6 feb, 8.45am. I will be wearing a red long sleeve shirt, and a black baseball cap. No need to air this in public, just be there.

[Pedro Chilli]

All valid points Hippie. Personally i never frequent these bars, too loud, all that false screaming bullshit when you walk in the door etc. I too have mongered all over the world for the past 20 years, so I suppose I am a vet, but I still get hoodwinked every now and again when I let the guard down. I've spent a fair amount of time in PP and Cambo so I never pay more than 20, unless the girl goes beyond the call of duty in which case I give more. Everybody criticizes Heart but thats still where I get the best chicks I'm capable of, and thats because the music isnt terrible (like martini) so I have a dance and that sometimes works for me.

[Hippie]

Hippie, i am not flaming you, but i have heard a lot of stories, from reliable people, of chicks asking for outrageous amounts, $50 upwards, even $100, and that was to a dude who lives in thailand and is no mug, of course he told her to fuck off, but he had been buying her lady f'king drinks for 3 nights, and she only told him when she had stripped naked in his hotel room.

You just identified the probable cause without realizing it, and while he may be no mug, it sounds as if he does not really understand the differences between the Thai and PP bar scenes. Because he had been buying her lady drinks for 3 nights, and presumably more than one each night, the girl in question assumed that he was indeed a person who did not understand the scene and was probably gullible enough to pay her ridiculous request. I seldom buy lady drinks here. Instead, I give a girl a tip of one or two dollars when I leave. The exception is if I am friends with the bar owner, in which case I will buy one, or at most two, lady drinks if I sit with a girl for an extended period. If I am flirting with 2 or more girls, then I still just give a tip, and I have never heard a word of complaint from any bar owner or gotten hints that I should buy more lady drinks. I would never do that in Thailand at a bar that I frequented. This is one of the reasons why PP is so much cheaper for me than anywhere in Thailand. A night out here costs me $30-$60 instead of $100-$200. He may also have made the mistake of mentioning what he paid girls in Thailand. I would think experienced mongers would have more sense than to do that, but I have been amazed at how many time I have heard seasoned vets tell a girl how cheap P4P is in the country they are in at the moment, and how much more they have paid elsewhere. In addition, the girl may have been one who did not normally go with customers, and only did so because she thought he would be a big score. There are a lot of girls like that here, and I steer clear of them for the most part. There are a couple of exceptions who I talk to because I like the eye candy and enjoy their conversation, but I don't even consider taking them home. On the other hand, if you are young and reasonably good looking, these are the type that are most likely to give you a freebie. There are also some hostess bar girls here whose minimum price really is $5 or $10 above the norm, as well as a very few freelancers who also try to hold out for more. The key to determining if this is the kind of girl you are dealing with is in how she reacts when you tell her the price you will pay. If she tries to negotiate or convince you to pay more, it is most likely just a ploy. If she simply states her price and then shows no interest in discussing it further, then that is her real price, at least for you. Up to you if you are willing to pay it. I'm not, but if I were on a short trip and had already invested a lot of time that evening in the girl, that might change.

As far as girls asking outrageous prices, I don't doubt it. Asking price means nothing, it is what she will actually accept that matters. Also, unless you are well known in a place as a person who knows the correct price and does not overpay (and maybe even then), asking "How much?" is the absolute kiss of death when it comes to negotiating. Doing so means that the other person will immediately assume you don't know the going rate. If you feel it necessary to fix the price in advance--and sometimes this is indeed a good idea--if the girl does not bring it up herself, tell her what you plan to pay. If you can work it into the conversation in a natural way, that is even better. Sometimes a girl will put out feelers to gauge your price level. Use that to your advantage. When she says "The last guy I had ST with gave me $40," laugh (additional points for dramatic emphasis if you also snort beer through your nose) and respond with "Wow, some guys are so stupid. Everyone knows the price is $10." Just be careful of your tone, as you want to make sure you do not insult her by implying she is not worth $40. You simply want to point out that you know this is not the going price. She may still try to argue it is $15, but that is a much better starting point than $40.

Also, keep in mind that we are discussing prices in westerner-oriented hostess bars and freelancer joints. If you are in a place that caters to rich locals or Asian tourists, the prices will be much higher.

I do not claim to to be the guru of PP, or anywhere else. I am just an intelligent, observant guy who hates to overpay for anything. I have learned from my many mistakes, and I am appalled at how badly I overspent during the first couple of years that I was going to foreign countries. I have also had some good teachers and have had the advantage of living in Mexico and Asia for several years. I have friends that come to Asia once or twice a year and throw money around like it is nothing. I still remember one guy telling me that the reason he preferred AC to Manila was that in AC there was no way he would spend more than $1000 in one night, while in Manila he almost always did. However, even they do not overpay for things. They will pay toward the top of the going rate, but that is all. Their money goes for quantity--threesomes, foursomes and moresomes, 20 lady drinks in one bar, barfining 10 of their girl's friends for a bar hop, etc. These guys have a blast on their trips, and if they want to spend that kind of cash, that is fine, but not my style (or these days, within my budget). I did similar for the first year I was going to Tijuana, and I did it almost every weekend, so I have no right to criticize them.

[Hummer Bird]

Disconnect?

My guess is that he understands the scene, mentality, and culture to a degree not immediately grasped by a newbie. And no mug may refer to a "charming face", rather than a "mug shot" scruffy. Unless your point is that only uglies go to Thailand.
Anyways who cares
HB

[Bigcebu]

a dude who lives in thailand and is no mug

Disconnect?

[Pedro Chilli]

Hippie, i am not flaming you, but i have heard a lot of stories, from reliable people, of chicks asking for outrageous amounts, $50 upwards, even $100, and that was to a dude who lives in thailand and is no mug, of course he told her to fuck off, but he had been buying her lady f'king drinks for 3 nights, and she only told him when she had stripped naked in his hotel room.

I'll be back in feb, we probably know each others faces anyway, i would appreciate coming along and watching how you do it.

[Hippie]

so are you a long haired chilled out dope smoking slacker with an easy charm?

no. two days ago, i did have a girl at one of the hostess bars stand firm on $20 for st or $30 for all night, but the bar had just opened for the night, she was one of the best looking girls in the bar, and she had said she was a three holer and up for anything. (i passed, but may take her up on the all-nighter at some point.)

there were about 2 near mao z dong blvd that cater only to local native cambos from what i understand (this was about 1 yr ago so places may no longer exist? most places welcome me-usually in hopes of stealing from me, but apparently these places were legit but only wants local business- dont know the reason why.
may return to pp next year and will recess the area again and check it out if things change.

there are only 3 reasons i know of why a sexually oriented business here will refuse westerners:
1. they cater to upper class asians who don't want to associate with us--this would not be true of a brothel.
2. they are trying to be discreet and don't want ngos to know what goes on inside--again, not normally true of a regular house/brothel but does apply to some guest houses that are just fronts for brothels.
3. the girls are **** and they don't want ngos to find out and force the government to shut them down.

[Phantomtiger2]

I don't go to brothels much, but I have never had a brothel in PP refuse my business, or refuse $5. Karaokes, yes, but not brothels. Where did you find ones that did? (So that I can avoid them).

There were about 2 near Mao Z Dong Blvd that cater only to local native cambos from what I understand (this was about 1 yr ago so places may no longer exist? Most places welcome me-usually in hopes of stealing from me, but apparently these places were legit but only wants local business- dont know the reason why.
may return to PP next year and will recess the area again and check it out if things change.


PT

[Pedro Chilli]

Other than that, I have had no problems getting girls on 104 and 136 to go for $20--but it has always been after midnight when I have asked.

So are you a long haired chilled out dope smoking slacker with an easy charm? If you aint you know something i dont, and i dont mean the lingo.

[Hippie]

Which ones are you talking about here? Where?

Every brothel I have been in--the 2 on 154 between Norodom and 51, and a few on St. 63

'Cambodian Tourism Minister Thon Khong told Chinese-language newspaper the Commercial News.

About 1,500 passengers come to Cambodia through Bangkok everyday, making up 30 percent of all daily entry of visitors into the kingdom, he said.

"Each of them is expected to spend 770 dollars per day in the country," he said. '

I can't believe any of you are taking this quote seriously. It comes from a Cambodian government official, which automatically means it is untrue, and when it is the official whose job is to promote tourism and the spending of tourist money, well...

unless your a good looking young stud, i dont think hot looking girls from 104, shanghai etc would even look at you for $20 unless its the rainy season and their desperate.

Most girls at Shanghai these days won't go for any price (within reason), as they are looking for boyfriends--of course that can change if rent is due or they are otherwise short of cash. However, I have taken several hot girls from hostess bars and never had a problem paying $20 for overnight. Generally, the girls who want more will say so upfront or at least ask how much you plan to pay, especially if they know you live here. I had one girl quote me $25, which I passed on, and one ask how much I was going to give her who then said she was tired and was just going home when I told her $20. Other than that, I have had no problems getting girls on 104 and 136 to go for $20--but it has always been after midnight when I have asked.

4)going prices are as stated above with a few exceptions. Some brothels will not even service foreigners and some that will take foreigners will not settle for anything less than $10 (sometimes $7 if you are a repeat), I know this as they would not even stop me as I threaten to walk away. But many options available, so just move on.

I don't go to brothels much, but I have never had a brothel in PP refuse my business, or refuse $5. Karaokes, yes, but not brothels. Where did you find ones that did? (So that I can avoid them).