FKK Palace - Frankfurt

[Myrmidon]

Ekliqes Lauern & Soap Fan. Thanks guys.

Sound advice to add to my decisions. It really comes down to a good observation period, followed by select questions and observation again of the answers. Now I know why a previous poster mentioned how he felt relief, among other things, when he left for the end of his visit because it really is hard work. Like everything else worth having.

Take care and keep safe. Myr.

[Ekliges Lauern]

When the upsell is simply for a 'fuller' experience, how about retorting: 100E for the hour? Sounds great.

Don't do it. She is telling you she has a short program and an A game. Difference is 50E. No guarentees she will be any good for 100E. She may try to string you along for another 50E. This will mark you as a newbee and the sharks will circle.

Contrast that to this situation. I had heard good things about Czech Regi and saw her for the first time at Palace quite a while back. I told her I wanted to go with her. She wanted to get a bite to eat first but lets sit and chat while she ate. While eating she told me she didn't like going with guys for only 50E as she thought she delivered a really excellent session. She said it just wasn't fair as she was so hot and so good. She said she liked going with guy for longer than half an hour.

I countered that I really don't go with anyone for longer than a half an hour. I did tell her that I enjoyed CIM from time to time, but only after a really excellent session, somewhat as just the natural way to finish a mind blowing session, but also as a reward and recognition. She told me that was fair and was happy I viewed it that way. Off to the room we went.

Regi sucked and fucked me like a porn star. 29 minutes later, she blew me to a mind blowing orgasm. After I was done squirming, she looked up and took her mouth off my dick, smiled, opened her mouth to show me my handiwork and dramatically gulped it down. More smiles.

Regi earned the 100E and was worth it. Now she is in NRW at GT, so I can get the same performance for 75E. Moral of the story: the women are economically motived and you can use this to your advantage. Behave stupidly, and you will overpay and likely get a lackluster session.

You sly dog! That is a GREAT idea. She would have a hard time getting away with too much. Not sure about a 69 in public though. My shyness might have to be overcome by my cheapness and desire not to waste any precious euros.

If you are shy, you can alway work you way up to full blown Kino fucking by starting out with Kino BJs. Palace has a particularly comfortable setup for that.

Regarding whether to go along when she wants to go to the room from the Kino: If she looks and acts like she would have no problem with performing in a Tiajuana donkey show as long as the pay is right, she's probably asking to go to the room for reasons other than shyness.

And there is another upside to this: She will tell her clique about you, but you are also on display to the other ladies outside her clique. Word will circulate you are legit. Just as long as the rest of them don't want to only go as far as the kino!

You mentioned another trick of mine, in clique fucking. The girls talk. Pay attention which girls hang together. The Poles hang with the Poles. The Romanians hang with the Romanians, etc. If you get a really good session from a girl, take one of her friends. You probably got a good session because you were perceived as a good guy and she wants to fuck you again. Fucking her friends in her mind is better than you fucking another girl from a completely different clique. Plus you have already been bestowed with A game worthiness.

[M P Lurker]

When the upsell is simply for a 'fuller' experience, how about retorting: 100E for the hour? Sounds great.

I would not go for 1 hour immediately. She might turn out to be so ordinary that 15 mins will be long enough. I would say that I often upgrade to 1 hour if I am having a really good time.

The really good girls don't seem to ask how long it will be providing they are clear you understand the pricing structure.
Otherwise they might get out the card that shows 30 mins is 50 Euro, but 40 mins is 100, etc.

I have had higher than 60 minute sessions on occasions, as I was enjoying myself that much that I didn't even mind doing extended DATY on my time.

Mostly 30 mins I reserve for girls that weren't that special. But I am very slow when enjoying myself. Not really typical.

[Myrmidon]

Be confident and stand your ground. Don't go with the first girl that shakes her ass at you. If anyone tries to pick non-standard pricing, just say no. This will do alot to prevent shark-bites. Recognize you are still dealing with women and chemistry and how you treat them matters. Even when you turn them down, always do it in a nice way. No woman wants to think you don't want to fuck her.

Don't take the 1st one? This is easy for you guys. You see this all the time! I'm not sure how I will react the first time I enter a room full (5. 15) beautiful (European) naked (except for shoes / shash / belt) women. (Sidebar: European includes EE, South American etc. They tend to take better care of themselves and their presentation. Closest we have are the French-Cdn jeunes filles, and they're not naked) I do not intend to take up with someone for about the first hour to hour and a half, to check out the field. But how do you resist when you have a beautiful, naked women well within your personal space? Mon Dieu!

Upselling is not necessarily a bad thing. If you want to CIM for 50E or fuck her in the ass for 100E, nice of her to let you know it is on the menu. If you are a 50E guy, you have to hold out hope of either repeat business or longer sessions to motive her A game.

What annoys me is the "will this be a half hour or hour? " before the festivaties start. What she is saying is "I'm happy to give you the short program for 50E, but if you expect my A game, pay me 100E". If there has not been mouth to dick contact, bail. Otherwise, you are basically screwed and are in for the short program.

When the upsell is simply for a 'fuller' experience, how about retorting: 100E for the hour? Sounds great.

Other thing I would recommend is have your first session or two in the kino if you are comfortable with that. She knows she is on display and any BS may hurt her business. If she really wants to go to the room, you have to decide if it is so she can give you the short program while no one is watching, or whether she really is shy and will respond favorably to you being nice and acceeding to her wishes. Follow your gut on this one.

You sly dog! That is a GREAT idea. She would have a hard time getting away with too much. Not sure about a 69 in public though. My shyness might have to be overcome by my cheapness and desire not to waste any precious euros.

And there is another upside to this: She will tell her clique about you, but you are also on display to the other ladies outside her clique. Word will circulate you are legit. Just as long as the rest of them don't want to only go as far as the kino!

My strategy is to tell the girl I need more time to recover and am not ready when she starts attacking me. I usually have my arm around her and am gently stroking her tit or ass. Serious mixed signals. She will usually put her hand under my towel and start wanking you. After two or three wanks, I grab her hand but the wrist and put it back on her leg. She will go for you dick again after a couple second. You can repeat this a couple of times an still back out. Let her wank you continuously long enough to get you hard and it's really hard to back out. Plus its just bad form.

Why do I do this? How a woman touches your dick tells you whether she understands sensuality or whether she just wants to get you off as quick as possible. If she just starts giving strrong jerks, bail. If she knows how to touch in ways that feel really good, it's probably going to be a good session. But as I said, you can't let it go on too long and maintain flexibiliy. Getting hard undercuts your, "I'd like to go with you, but I'm just not ready" excuse. Plus, who doesn't enjoy a good wank, even if it is brief.

I like, I like and agree totally.

This is an experience that is new to me and not available here. I intend to make the most of it. Thank you again for your insight and suggestions. I was a little put off when I read some of the reports last January, but with these and other tips I am starting to look forward to the visit again.

Take Care and Keep Safe. Myr.

[Ekliges Lauern]

that's right, i'm a 'newbie', first time poster, 'shark' bait. but i'm coming to frankfurt and the palace this april.

be confident and stand your ground. don't go with the first girl that shakes her ass at you. if anyone tries to pick non-standard pricing, just say no. this will do alot to prevent shark-bites. recognize you are still dealing with women and chemistry and how you treat them matters. even when you turn them down, always do it in a nice way. no woman wants to think you don't want to fuck her.

i have prepared a cover story for why i am there and the fact that no one would have seen me before, (i am returning after an absence; resuming business interests in the area). but my lack of german and cdn accent will still leave me vulnerable.

your cover story is good enough. some girls may see through it, but important thing is to leave the impression you may become a steady customer.

i realize that that first contact is key: get unnecessarily upsold and the rest will expect the same!

upselling is not necessarily a bad thing. if you want to cim for 50e or fuck her in the ass for 100e, nice of her to let you know it is on the menu. if you are a 50e guy, you have to hold out hope of either repeat business or longer sessions to motive her a game.

what annoys me is the "will this be a half hour or hour?" before the festivaties start. what she is saying is "i'm happy to give you the short program for 50e, but if you expect my a game, pay me 100e". if there has not been mouth to dick contact, bail. otherwise, you are basically screwed and are in for the short program.

my questions: in reading the boards i am confused about when a session begins.

1 if you negotiate in the lounge and request a visit to the kino to verify her dfk skills does this trigger the commitment?

2) further to above, if you touch her or kiss her as noted above, are you committed?

3) i thought that you were committed when her lips touch your equipment. what about if she touches your equipment under your robe / towel in the kino / lounge? (trying to upsell / clinch the deal etc.) can you touch her in a similar manner without triggering the commitment?

1) if you want dfk, i find it easier to just let her initiate it on the couch. you should act as if you are resisting. if she doesn't try to initiate dfk during the "[CodeWord123] me and drag me to the room" portion of the getting to know you, she's probably not going to do it in the room.

i would not enthusiastically engage in dfk for any length of time as while i don't think it technically makes the contract, it's just bad form to stretch it too far. basically, i don't like to give the impression that i will go with them so i am somewhat playfully resistent during this phase.

other thing i would recommend is have your first session or two in the kino if you are comfortable with that. she knows she is on display and any bs may hurt her business. if she really wants to go to the room, you have to decide if it is so she can give you the short program while no one is watching, or whether she really is shy and will respond favorably to you being nice and acceeding to her wishes. follow your gut on this one.

2) some playful stroking is ok. the key is to maintain a certain degree of resistence to her advances. you can playfully stroke her butt while resisting her advances. just remember you can only get away with this for so long.

3) lips on dick = commitment, no exceptions. you can have her wank you for a bit without a committment. you can't let this go on for to long without creating an argument if you back out.

my strategy is to tell the girl i need more time to recover and am not ready when she starts attacking me. i usually have my arm around her and am gently stroking her tit or ass. serious mixed signals. she will usually put her hand under my towel and start wanking you. after two or three wanks, i grab her hand but the wrist and put it back on her leg. she will go for you dick again after a couple second. you can repeat this a couple of times an still back out. let her wank you continuously long enough to get you hard and it's really hard to back out. plus its just bad form.

why do i do this? how a woman touches your dick tells you whether she understands sensuality or whether she just wants to get you off as quick as possible. if she just starts giving strrong jerks, bail. if she knows how to touch in ways that feel really good, it's probably going to be a good session. but as i said, you can't let it go on too long and maintain flexibiliy. getting hard undercuts your, "i'd like to go with you, but i'm just not ready" excuse. plus, who doesn't enjoy a good wank, even if it is brief.

that being said, this is normally a solitary hobby, particularly on this side of the pond. i have noted in the posts that sometimes groups go and have a good time. i have also noted on this board that other members sometimes meet up at the palace on occasion. i will be there for a week in the later half of april, except one day of touring. i am willing to entertain the idea of meeting some of you sometime at the palace, so you could introduce the brother from abroad to your favourites. just a thought.

my recommendation is don't hook up with other regulars as a newbee. you are more likely to rely on advise of your new fkk buddies rather than developing your fkk girl selection-chops. observation is a key part of the selection process. don't worry if she thinks you are a little creepy when you leer at her. it's all part of the game.

once you develop your chops, you can confidently swim the sharky waters of the big fkks with the top acts. if you are looking for a more risk free proposition, albiet with older and less attractive women, there are clubs in the koeln area that might suit your needs better.

[M P Lurker]

I really like Brazillians but since I visit Rio 3-4 times a year I generally ignore them while I'm in Europe.

Could be a serious error! although Kimi claimed there are no other Brazilians. Maybe she meant on her night. The mulata looking types are not Brazilian as far as I know.

I prefer to go when place is moderately busy to get more choice. Talk to other customers and see who they recommend and why.
There are some ordinary service girls, could be even a lot. The trick is how to avoid them.

[Myrmidon]

@Myrmidon,

Welcome on board, Myrmidon. Coach interview/pre-action has been discussed many times before, but it is an important topic where we have a lot to learn from each other. I am still learning.

Yeah, I also made that statement once. This hobby is addictive. You are hereby warned! ;-)

Enjoy!

Sir: Thank you for your thoughtful response. You've made a lot of sense.

I am old enough to be father to these ladies. (Note: I always address them as ladies, never girls, women or other. Even the meanest, great white, she-***** is a lady until I have walked a mile (kilometer) in her stilettos) Treat someone with respect and you will most often get it back in kind. The odd time you will not, so get up, dust yourself off and move on. This trip is very special to me and I do not intend to let it be derailed by anyone.

With luck, and continued good advise from persons such as Shark16 and others, this trip will be the memory I intend it to be. Thank You all.

Myr. P.S. Thanks for the warning. OMG, I hope your right!

[Shark16]

@Myrmidon,
Welcome on board, Myrmidon. Coach interview/pre-action has been discussed many times before, but it is an important topic where we have a lot to learn from each other. I am still learning.

Here is my response to your questions:

1 If you negotiate in the Lounge and request a visit to the kino to verify her DFK skills does this trigger the commitment?

So you are asking the girl to check her reaction to your request for a DFK in public display in the kino? Nice. Asking does not trigger the commitment of course. Seriously DKF'ing a girl does IMHO, irrespectively of doing it in the kino or elsewhere.

Do not feel committed to go to the kino with her after having raised the question. Just say you wanted to see her reaction. If you agree to go to the kino, it would be rude to refuse starting DFK'ing with her (i.e. committing yourself) unless something happens that make you change your mind (change in her attitude, selling standard services as extras, you get the wrong vibes). If so, tell her no and leave the kino immedieately. Do not DFK or allow BBBJ.

An alternative strategy is to ask the girl to continue the conversation in the kino - without raising the DFK request - and then take it slowly from there. In the last second before you make your decision, you raise the DFK request, and if negative, do not feel committed.

A different question is whether time in the kino should count or not when you continue in a room after some pre-action in the kino. This is where YMMV, but at the end of the day it is up to the girl.

2) Further to above, if you touch her or kiss her as noted above, are you committed?

There is a fine line here. During coach interview you want to check chemistry and getting to know her. She will/should expect that. You can ask her different types of questions, both trivilia and specifics about her services. If it feels right, some light touches and kisses are appropriate - without feeling committed. But do not overdo it. I would z.b. not touch her genitalia or seriously DFK. Word will quickly go around among the girls if you fool around without committing yourself.

3) I thought that you were committed when her lips touch your equipment. What about if she touches your equipment under your robe / towel in the kino / lounge? (Trying to upsell / clinch the deal etc.) Can you touch her in a similar manner without triggering the commitment?

Again, a fine line. Yes, lips around your dick is a commitment. Also DFK'ing or DATY. Touching her genitalia is highly controversial (a commitment IMHO). But touching your dick under your towel is not necessarily a commitment.

Some girls will be very quick to go there, and you need to be equally quick to make it clear to her that you are not ready to go yet (excuses: you need a break/you are waiting for another/you need to know her better before you want to commit yourself, etc.). If you don't, time passes by, and you are "clearly enjoying yourself", she may be pretty upset (and rightfully so) if you are not committing yourself. She may not be entitled to money, but words about you will be spread among the girls. She may even try demanding money from you, and if a dispute, the Palace front desk is not known to favour the guys.

But let's say that you have told her no, and she despite this continue to stroke your dick (not an uncommon situation in Hessen), it is now at her risk. With a little social skills, this can be a "free" playful situation. But again, do not overdo things. Be respectful. And keep in mind Palace front desk's bad reputation in case of dispute.

I realize alot of this is YMMV and if you have properly prepared, I. E. Interviewed the lady, this should not be a problem. That means respecting the fact that she is working: don't tease her, trying to get what you can without paying, and realize that time is money to her, so no excessive idle chit-chat unless she initiates it.

You got it right. One should always respect that she is working and not waste her time. On the other hand, it is also her work to communicate with clients and charm them to the rooms. Chit-chat is a part of her job. And of course, please feel free to initiate chit-chats with the girls yourself (maybe not everyone around, but the ones you are attracted to). Most girls will be happy to not always having to initiate first contact. This is a excellent way to check her social skills. If she is friendly outside the room and you feel a connection, it is likely that you will have a good time inside the room too. If she is impatient, rude or non-talkative, I would move on to the next girl. Don't be a push-over. The girls should expect a pre-interview of at least 5- 10 mnts before you make your decision.

This is after all my first and possibly only visit. (It is hard to get over to Europe all that often)

Yeah, I also made that statement once. This hobby is addictive. You are hereby warned! ;-)

Enjoy!

[Myrmidon]

Not correct. It is allowed, you can use it in the relaxing area where they provide the newspapers. I did ask at the front desk. Answer was: It's allowed, but the girls don't like it. Haha, the girls don't like a lot of things, who cares.

HB

Here's a tought / twist: Since laptops are allowed, and someone previously referred to using his iPod I think, there may just be a good use for them. Obviously cameras are not allowed. But a newbie could store 'reviews' of ladies on either device. Then when the lady intros her self, you could just excuse yourself with 'resting', go and check her review and make an informed decision!

Just a thought.

Keep safe and take care. Myr.

[Devilspinkick]

After a pretty good time in Berlin, I've made my way to Frankfurt and though I definitely prefer Berlin, I must admit that Frankfurt has it's own sort of charm. This was my first trip to The Palace and it was easy to get to via public transit (the you-Bahn). I entered and paid the €75. I have to say that the facilities here are very nice, I especially liked the reading room/lounge and the pool area. The food on offer was of very good quality. But what's the deal with the showers? The water varied from cool to scheißkalt, and only seemed to get worse as the night dragged on.

I arrived there around 3PM and was expecting it to be slow (it was). Was immediately approached by two decent looking blonde, Polish gals. I usually blow off the girl (s) to approach me, so I told them "maybe later". I found out later that one of them was named Emma. I guess that I shouldn't be surprised that it was slow. Being a Monday and all. Just hung around until around 6PM when new girls started showing up. Among the new crew was a petite Romanian chick with a nice little ass. She was talking a big game about how good she was but I wanted to take her for a ride. The sex was very mechanical and unimpressive to say the least. And for some reason she kept wanting to stick a five inch dildo in my bumm. No thanks! I actually lost interest and calle dit quits. Gals name was Carla, if you should be into such things.

Not long after finishing with Carla I crosssed paths with a lady with a killer bod named Vanessa. I later learned that she is Spanish/German mix. That's what she told me anyway. She was obviously quite popular because I had seen her go off to the rooms with like 5 guys within two hours. None-the-less, I wanted to take her for a spin. She was nice and definitely a step up from carla, but still pretty mechanical and zero passion. Hell, she propbably had sex with about 20 guy that night. I guess I wouldn't feel very passionate either.

I guess I just chose poorly because I'm sure guys in Frankfurt wouldn't normally pay for this kind of sex. There are a lot of ladies I turned down, including a Spanish lass who seemed quite nice and a handful of Poles. I actually like Polish ladie but I have been with so many that I was trying to do something different. Around 9PM some Brazilian ladies arrived, I really like Brazillians but since I visit Rio 3-4 times a year I generally ignore them while I'm in Europe.

Overall I had a mixed impression of Palace, but if I visit at a different time (ie, summertime on a Frdiay niight) I might have a completely different experience.

Well I plan to head to Oase today (Tuesday). Wish me luck.

DSK

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[Basketcase]

This reminds me: If any of you have visited Palace in the last week or so, could you please tell me whether you observed Roxanna/Roxanne (Lithuanian or Estonian, blond, large fake breast) there? Judging from the Oase thread, she seems to be working both there and at Palace, so perhaps I will have to make the trip to Oase to meet her if she's not at Palace currently.

Ozzy

Ozzy Ozzman,

Your best bet to find Roxanne of Lithuania is to attend Palace. Roxanne has not been spotted working at Oase for some time now.

Basketcase

[Ozzy Ozzman]

Hey Ozzy Ozzman, and thanks for your detailed reports!

Which place do you prefer, Artemis or Palace?

Whats the pros and cons for those places?

I'd say the two places are pretty similar, meaning that if you like Artemis, you'll most probably like Palace as well, and vice-versa. Both clubs are large with fine amenities, have a good selection of girls and give an impression of overall professionalism.

There are some minor differences, quirks etc. Like I mentioned earlier, Palace has better food and slightly nicer interiors (if things like nice tiling means anything to you when visiting an FKK...) Palace also has smoking rooms, which is good because the air is much fresher. At Artemis it's non-smoking in the downstairs relaxation area (but the air there is still very stale because of the heavy humidity from the pool and saunas), but no restrictions in the main bar, which results in some rather unpleasant air.

One complaint that I have with Palace, is that their showers are usually fucking cold, something I heard many people complaining about when taking showers. I've never had this problem at Artemis.

As far as selection of girls goes, I'd say that Artemis has the edge in numbers, variety and looks, but keep in mind that my experience with Palace is limited to one weekend. However, when it comes to the very top talent, I don't think the favourite girls from my Palace visit take a back seat to my favourite girls at Artemis. So you'll find terrific girls at both places.

Where Artemis really outshines Palace, is not in the features of the club itself, but in its location. I think Berlin is a much, much nicer town than Frankfurt, and you'll have a better time in Berlin when/if catching a break from FKK-ing. The advantages of Berlin are somewhat counterbalanced by (depending on where you live) the easier access of Frankfurt, which has a hub airport. At least for me, Frankfurt is reachable by several direct flights a day. Berlin, on the other hand, has far fewer direct flights, and many days of the week I would be forced to make a change-over, thus increasing travel time. This means Frankfurt is ideal for a short Friday-Sunday romp, whereas to go to Berlin, I have to extend the weekend by a day or two to make it more worthwhile. Ease of access is one of the reasons I'm going back to Palace very shortly, instead of heading for Berlin and Artemis. (Another reason is of course that I met a couple of girls there that I'm already very eager to meet again.)

I hope to give you all a report of that trip, albeit abridged, when I get back.

This reminds me: If any of you have visited Palace in the last week or so, could you please tell me whether you observed Roxanna/Roxanne (Lithuanian or Estonian, blond, large fake breast) there? Judging from the Oase thread, she seems to be working both there and at Palace, so perhaps I will have to make the trip to Oase to meet her if she's not at Palace currently.

Ozzy

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[M P Lurker]

Customer ratios are pretty international too - think Germans, Italiani, Asians like Arabs, Turks, Persians, Indians, Singaporeans, Hong Kong, Japanese, Koreans, Australians and North Americans and South Americans. Although I think customers are more weighted to be German or cohorts of Italiani. ....

Some days the Italians come in large cohorts. Doesn't worry me where they come from as behaviour is generally very good, and doesn't bother me to be a lone Aussie. Its probably better that way.

Why are there so few Englishmen?

[M P Lurker]

Visit on a weekday, arriving at 1 pm..

Very quiet, but some beauties around.
Recommended Bee (Thai) and Kimmi (Brasil) which I fancied to try were not there.

Bee works daytime Thurs, Fri, Sat I think.
Kimi works nights, but not every night.
Most likely nights: Fri, Sat, Mon and maybe some others.

She does not kiss, but a must do if you want a stunner! Friendly and very nice BBBJ.

Ah, I thought "Stunner" was a word for physical beauty. Good kisser is a must for GFE.

[Basketcase]

I'm planning my trip to Frankfurt, and am leaning towards visiting Palace on a Sunday and Monday night (during a non-Messe week). How is the selection and customer ratio on those nights? I'd thought about including a Saturday, but I want to avoid bad ratios and waits for rooms, etc.

if room waits is your sole criteria for visiting FKKs then you should not need to worry overly about waits for rooms on a Sunday or Monday visit to Palace or to any FKK in Hessen really. In my visits on those particular days I do not recall ever waiting for a room to become available.

Selection is generally pretty good. I really do like the food at Palace better than Oase and Palace definitely runs against World in terms of its menu but I give Palace the edge since it is more international palette whereas World is more Germanic style foods.

Customer ratios are pretty international too - think Germans, Italiani, Asians like Arabs, Turks, Persians, Indians, Singaporeans, Hong Kong, Japanese, Koreans, Australians and North Americans and South Americans. Although I think customers are more weighted to be German or cohorts of Italiani. Most customers I found spoke English to some degree and the staff do too and most of the girls. Then amongst those customers there will be guys with large budgets and customers with modest budgets.

Gruss,

Basketcase