Nairobi

[Rwenotmen]

Ok, to turn away from a pissing match about economics and to return the thread to what we can all agree on. Monger-hunting!

I live in Nairobi NOW, have been here for 3 months, and will be here for at least one year. I work right smack in centre of town. In the area just east of Moi Ave, behind the National Archives building.

I am offering to the ISG/another forum communities my on-the-ground, eyewitness accounts of life and especially mongering in NBO. Post your questions/comments and I'll try to follow 'them up. I can't promise the quickest response, as I actually have a daily job and Internet access can be tricky here, but I'll do my best.

I do not live the true expat lifestyle (we could discuss what this means in a separate thread), as I commute to work/home via matatus, I work ONLY with the average jane/joe Kenyans, I eat, sleep and party with mostly Kenyans, and I live in area (near Kangemi) with 99.9% Kenyans. I have lived & worked in Kenya before--again at the grassroots level--so there's (few things) nothing you can tell me that I haven't personally experienced, seen or heard about life in Kenya at all stratas of economic or social.

Back to the fun. I see lovely ladies every single day especially around my work neighborhood, and in 3 months have had more p*ssy than in 3 years in NYC, in 2 cases for "free" (better to say, "for services 'in-kind').-plus I have a regular girlfriend! Yes, non-pro's ARE "easy" to get here if you're a foreigner.- and w/o having to 'compensate' at wazungu rates-- but there are a few approaches to use to keep yourself safe, and to reduce/prevent situations where the lady either is growing annoying, or falls "in love" (I. E. Wants you to take her to the West). My hope is that we'll all discuss workable methods as this thread grows.

I'll start, in a separate post.

[Jamjam222]

I discovered this beautiful web application. It's a map of Nairobi (or anyone else you type) and show the exact location of everything of interest in Nairobi.

Including.

Wait for it.

A little longer.

Brothels! Unbelievable! Really helpful and not only for mongering purposes.

Question: If I stay at a hotel without pool, will I be able to use pool at other hotels?

I posted a link with this post I think. Will try again.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=-1.2821176...airobi%20clubs

[Willyboy]

Not just Mzungus Willy boy, anybody who is percieved to be well off financially is 'national sport'. So you can include the Asians, Africans and Arabs who are not as street wise as you are. The most expensive women however are the wives. In some countries she can legally take off with half your property while you watch. I dont think Kenyan women in general have reached there yet.

I must say. Agry

In 1995 my ex wife was not thaking half. But all. Only my underwaer not. Maby I was playing tomutch

[Enzo 2009]

After 19 visits in Kenya in last 3 jaers. I laern mutch

If I am in Kenya. Than I will pay Kenya prices. Evry price wath mzungu ask in Kenya is minumum 66 procent overpriced. National sport from Kenya persons to mzungus. Only in nakumatt supermarkt. Al is ok. Not possibel to buy newspaper for the kenya prices. Not one waiter give you money back after paying the bill. About taxi. Ok 1500kes from airport. It will by 1200kes. But about salery 3 to 5 dollar for persons without diplome About 10.000kes/month

I will not sitting 8h in aircraft end pay lot of money for my tiket end hotel end than prices like in EU. This type of discussion coming very often end never have good end. I will give 10 procent tipmoney for all my bills. But this is the limit for my.

Not just Mzungus Willy boy, anybody who is percieved to be well off financially is 'national sport'. So you can include the Asians, Africans and Arabs who are not as street wise as you are. The most expensive women however are the wives. In some countries she can legally take off with half your property while you watch. I dont think Kenyan women in general have reached there yet.

[Willyboy]

I've seen some of the prices that willyboy is talking about and quite frankly, they're about the same prices i know locals receive. For instance, a nairobi local can get charged up to 2000kshs for a ST by a pro in simmers / madhouse/florida. If you're a regular, you might get 1000kshs. In the outskirts of the city, you'll get ST for 300-500kshs but the girls aren't skilled, are older, are from the countryside and are sorely lacking in the looks department - so its your choice.

Willyboy argues that since the effective minimum wage is $5 per day (since he works in Kenya statistics board) then the kenyan pros should ideally receive $5 - $10. Thats like me going to see a pro here in the UK who usually charge £70 for a 30 min session and demanding that she lower her price to £10 because the national minimum wage is £5.80.

Im all for bargaining. But Im also human. So I wouldn't want to sqeeze a poor person to the point that it becomes futile for them to operate. These pros aren't trying to buy gucci shoes or crack like the european ones.They're simply trying to eat and pay rent.

Willyboy on the other hand seems intent to be the german darth vader

My friend. I am not from Germany.

You can not compare EU prices end services in EU end Kenya. Big misthake. To start explain this for you. I will not invest my thime end you will never andestand.

[Jerulez]

Would it be correct to say that both of you have valid points? That is, a tourist that is not familiar with the local prices will negotiate and agree to a price much higher that what a local may pay. It is only good business for the seller to get the highest price they can get. But if this tourist knows what the local price is (e.g. apartments in Nairobi DO rent for 300 to 400 u.s. per month) then a landlord who tries to get a rent over 400 u.s. is over-charging, whether that person is a local or tourist, not so?

In Ghana if I didn't have a local negotiating in my absence I always was overcharged but, in the end, once I knew the local price I would just give it to him without any questions. Not sure how safe that is in Nairobi but in Accra I never had any violent reactions, only verbal complaining in front of my Ghanaian wife.

I've seen some of the prices that willyboy is talking about and quite frankly, they're about the same prices i know locals receive. For instance, a nairobi local can get charged up to 2000kshs for a ST by a pro in simmers/madhouse/florida. If you're a regular, you might get 1000kshs. In the outskirts of the city, you'll get ST for 300-500kshs but the girls aren't skilled, are older, are from the countryside and are sorely lacking in the looks department - so its your choice.

Willyboy argues that since the effective minimum wage is $5 per day (since he works in Kenya statistics board) then the kenyan pros should ideally receive $5 - $10. Thats like me going to see a pro here in the UK who usually charge £70 for a 30 min session and demanding that she lower her price to £10 because the national minimum wage is £5.80.

Im all for bargaining. But Im also human. So I wouldn't want to sqeeze a poor person to the point that it becomes futile for them to operate. These pros aren't trying to buy gucci shoes or crack like the european ones.They're simply trying to eat and pay rent.

Willyboy on the other hand seems intent to be the german darth vader

[Jamjam222]

I discovered this beautiful web application. It's a map of Nairobi (or anyone else you type) and show the exact location of everything of interest in Nairobi.

Including.

Wait for it.

A little longer.

Brothels! Unbelievable! Really helpful and not only for mongering purposes.

Question: If I stay at a hotel without pool, will I be able to use pool at other hotels?

[Willyboy]

Would it be correct to say that both of you have valid points? That is, a tourist that is not familiar with the local prices will negotiate and agree to a price much higher that what a local may pay. It is only good business for the seller to get the highest price they can get. But if this tourist knows what the local price is (e.g. apartments in Nairobi DO rent for 300 to 400 u.s. per month) then a landlord who tries to get a rent over 400 u.s. is over-charging, whether that person is a local or tourist, not so?

In Ghana if I didn't have a local negotiating in my absence I always was overcharged but, in the end, once I knew the local price I would just give it to him without any questions. Not sure how safe that is in Nairobi but in Accra I never had any violent reactions, only verbal complaining in front of my Ghanaian wife.

Kibaki end riali. Salery. More than 20.000 EURO/month. But look KIBERA SLUMS. Many persons can not pay 10 euro for smal roof.

[Member #4379]

Would it be correct to say that both of you have valid points? That is, a tourist that is not familiar with the local prices will negotiate and agree to a price much higher that what a local may pay. It is only good business for the seller to get the highest price they can get. But if this tourist knows what the local price is (e.g. apartments in Nairobi DO rent for 300 to 400 u.s. per month) then a landlord who tries to get a rent over 400 u.s. is over-charging, whether that person is a local or tourist, not so?

In Ghana if I didn't have a local negotiating in my absence I always was overcharged but, in the end, once I knew the local price I would just give it to him without any questions. Not sure how safe that is in Nairobi but in Accra I never had any violent reactions, only verbal complaining in front of my Ghanaian wife.

[Willyboy]

You stated that 90% of kenyan people earn 10,000 Kshs. That sir, is a lie. In Jay-Z's words 'We don't believe you, you need more people'

Secondly, you base your experience on 19 visits in 3 years. I base my experience on 18 years of living in kenya. Everyone irrespective of their race will receive an inflated price. They call it 'bei ya kuongea' which is 'price that is to be negotiated'. Undercutting a seller and forcing him to receive less than 60% of what he asks for is nothing short of evil. Normal custom is to ask for a 20-30% price cut.

Jamjam,

The hotel is called seldom hotel and its on muranga road. There are also a couple of decent hotels on muranga road. Other hotels below:

Impala hotel
http://www.travellerspoint.com/accom...-Impala-Hotel/

Mooreland hotel (in ngara)
http://www.travellerspoint.com/accom...oreland-Hotel/

I am not surpriced that you write if person 18 jaers living in kenya ...you becaim same blod

[Jerulez]

After 19 visits in Kenya in last 3 jaers. I laern mutch

If I am in Kenya. Than I will pay Kenya prices. Evry price wath mzungu ask in Kenya is minumum 66 procent overpriced. National sport from Kenya persons to mzungus. Only in nakumatt supermarkt. Al is ok. Not possibel to buy newspaper for the kenya prices. Not one waiter give you money back after paying the bill. About taxi. Ok 1500kes from airport. It will by 1200kes. But about salery 3 to 5 dollar for persons without diplome About 10.000kes/month

I will not sitting 8h in aircraft end pay lot of money for my tiket end hotel end than prices like in EU. This type of discussion coming very often end never have good end. I will give 10 procent tipmoney for all my bills. But this is the limit for my.

You stated that 90% of kenyan people earn 10,000 Kshs. That sir, is a lie. In Jay-Z's words 'We don't believe you, you need more people'

Secondly, you base your experience on 19 visits in 3 years. I base my experience on 18 years of living in kenya. Everyone irrespective of their race will receive an inflated price. They call it 'bei ya kuongea' which is 'price that is to be negotiated'. Undercutting a seller and forcing him to receive less than 60% of what he asks for is nothing short of evil. Normal custom is to ask for a 20-30% price cut.

Jamjam,

The hotel is called seldom hotel and its on muranga road. There are also a couple of decent hotels on muranga road. Other hotels below:


Impala hotel
http://www.travellerspoint.com/accom...-Impala-Hotel/

Mooreland hotel (in ngara)
http://www.travellerspoint.com/accom...oreland-Hotel/

[Member #4379]

Thanks for that. I guess my only other option is to see if a hotel like Terminal is willing to give me a discount if I pay a month upfront and they know that some rooms may be vacant. If they are at 100% capacity everyday then I'm 'toast'. Let me know if you know of any hotels that are willing to give a discount if you pay a month upfront or, even better, pay just a week at a time upfront.

[Jamjam222]

Yeah. CBD is central business district. Most hotels in the CBD are quite expensive and the cheap ones are horrible. Those with swimming pools are quite pricey. I'd advice you to book a cheap hotel and then go to a hotel with a swimming pool in the afternoon where you can also eat your lunch.

Ngara is like nairobi's red light district. So no-one will really bother who you bring to your room - infact they'd be quite surprised if you sleep by yourself. My pick would be seldom hotel on muranga road in ngara. Its cheap (£35 per night, double bed), hot electric showers, clean, restaurant and its a 10 minute drive from the city. A cabbie should charge you about 300-500ksh to get there.

Thanks for the tip! You stated previously that you knew of a good place. Mind sharing the name of the hotel?

Still interested in trying out an apartment, so if anyone have any opinions about this it would be much appreciated :)

[Keyboard]

Greetings:

I will be coming to Nairobi for 1 month in September. I would like to find a hotel that would offer a discount if one stays for a month and puts all the money upfront or at least each week in advance in cash. If anyone knows of the name and phone number of hotels that would be willing to give a discount of under $500 u.s. per month like this please let send me a PM or posting. The Terminal Hotel offers rooms at 1900 k per night but I can't reach them on the phone to see if they would offer a discount. I'm assuming a discount is possible since rooms could be vacant and they get nothing but this assumption might be wrong. As for apartments, most expect at least 2 months payment upfront so that's out of the question but let me know if you know of any apartments that might accept 1 month payment instead of having the apartment vacant for 1 month.

Thanks.

Interracial

For what it's worth, my experience with an apartment is consistent with your view: a couple months' deposit upfront. In addition, it was difficult to get the deposit back when I left. Finally did, but had to work like mad.

[Willyboy]

Yeah. CBD is central business district. Most hotels in the CBD are quite expensive and the cheap ones are horrible. Those with swimming pools are quite pricey. I'd advice you to book a cheap hotel and then go to a hotel with a swimming pool in the afternoon where you can also eat your lunch.

Ngara is like nairobi's red light district. So no-one will really bother who you bring to your room. Infact they'd be quite surprised if you sleep by yourself. My pick would be seldom hotel on muranga road in ngara. Its cheap (£35 per night, double bed), hot electric showers, clean, restaurant and its a 10 minute drive from the city. A cabbie should charge you about 300-500ksh to get there.

Willyboy,

First of all, your claim that 90% of kenyans 3-5 dollars is false! I don't know where you pull your facts from.

Second of all, just because someone earns a little money doesn't mean that you should squeeze them more by paying less. Sure, almost everything is to be bargained for in kenya but you must have a sense of humanism and understand that you may be the only client that day for a porter or cab driver. If a cabbie tells me 1000 kshs, I might ask them to knock off 200 and we settle at 900. You have to remember that he has to survive and that many things such as education and healthcare have to be paid for unlike in europe.

After 19 visits in Kenya in last 3 jaers. I laern mutch

If I am in Kenya. Than I will pay Kenya prices. Evry price wath mzungu ask in Kenya is minumum 66 procent overpriced. National sport from Kenya persons to mzungus. Only in nakumatt supermarkt. Al is ok. Not possibel to buy newspaper for the kenya prices. Not one waiter give you money back after paying the bill. About taxi. Ok 1500kes from airport. It will by 1200kes. But about salery 3 to 5 dollar for persons without diplome About 10.000kes/month

I will not sitting 8h in aircraft end pay lot of money for my tiket end hotel end than prices like in EU. This type of discussion coming very often end never have good end. I will give 10 procent tipmoney for all my bills. But this is the limit for my.