Ho Chi Minh City - General Info

[Wendella]

W - don't have dictionary at hand but I interpret "anecdotal" as something heard second hand or further back, often not much different from rumour. An anecdote is a short story and often goes eg. my friends brother in law met someone who told him ....OR I haven't seen so and so for a long time, someone told me he might have contracted something. Anecdotal "evidence" can be helpful but wouldn't rely on it.

I can add more about HIV/Aids if anyone interested or just leave it at that. I know we live in the age of experts where you even need advice on how to feed yourself, but some of us can look around and make up our own minds.

I don't think 'anecdotal' means it's dubious hearsay. I think the word means something more like not comprehensive or not scientific -- just individual accounts/examples that might or might not represent the overall trend. Like what I just mentioned was my own experience, but then there's probably a lot more people who didn't have the same experience, so mine's just anecdotal. but if you think about it, almost everything posted in these forums is anecdotal. Anyway, not important.

I'm no expert at all on this, just another guy. This is a place for non-experts to share their non-expert advice. This (AIDS) is one aspect of the scene. It should be ok for us to discuss it, right? I mean, yes it's a downer, makes people uncomfortable... but that's what it is. Anyway, I said what I wanted to about it... don't have anything to add. People can PM me for links if they want to know more.

[Macheath]

Not sure how I can answer. You asked if we know of anyone who got the disease, but then you rule out anecdotal evidence, which if we did think of anyone, that's what it would be. "Anecdotal" means isolated individual examples.

W - don't have dictionary at hand but I interpret "anecdotal" as something heard second hand or further back, often not much different from rumour. An anecdote is a short story and often goes eg. my friends brother in law met someone who told him ....OR I haven't seen so and so for a long time, someone told me he might have contracted something. Anecdotal "evidence" can be helpful but wouldn't rely on it.

I can add more about HIV/Aids if anyone interested or just leave it at that. I know we live in the age of experts where you even need advice on how to feed yourself, but some of us can look around and make up our own minds.

[OzzieSuds]

This is directed to nail, johndao, sudoz, or any other person who knows.

I have been in viet for awhile and im knowledgeble in a few areas, but one area i havent yet tried is the kareoke or bia om thing. My question is is it weird to go to bia om by yourself, and how much is a typical night at either a kareoke or bia om. Finally i know a few bio om on tran phu and hung vuong, but can u guys post a few address of reputable bia om or in nails case the karoke and the total price?

I have only been to upmarket Karaoke with clients - usually Japanese so I can't help much. Did go once to a Bia Om in Phuong Tan Dinh area but again with business people so not very productive. Definitely a language barrier that could be overcome by actions.

These places tend to get raided if they become too prominent - unless they have deep pockets like Boss at Fortuna in Hanoi.

[MutantChicken]

This is directed to nail, johndao, sudoz, or any other person who knows.

I have been in viet for awhile and im knowledgeble in a few areas, but one area i havent yet tried is the kareoke or bia om thing. My question is is it weird to go to bia om by yourself, and how much is a typical night at either a kareoke or bia om. Finally i know a few bio om on tran phu and hung vuong, but can u guys post a few address of reputable bia om or in nails case the karoke and the total price?

[Nail The World]

My Karaoke report got buried in this dialog! As of now I have the feeling that this should have been my source number one for chicks, the karaokes of district 5, with the caveat that they can only see you after 11pm. Also, their English skills are 0 to 1, including those of mamasan's at some places. But in such a case it should be possible to find another girl who can help communicate. Get her to be part of your group.

This one who had slept for a night at my place has gone to see her folks and I would love to do without beer for few days anyway. She was excited about the idea of going to a nightclub. I will see how it goes but so far it is looking good. In the morning I had asked the motorbike guy to not take payment from her but he told me she insisted on paying, a welcome break from the clamor of "tip, tip, tip".

[Rob Doobing]

About a year ago, I wanted to experience this scene as well. What I did is that I passed by one evening, and was approached by a motor bike girl who in my eyes was by far cute enough to motivate me to give her a try. I had a short chat with her saying that I had no time right then, had to go home, but would be willing to see her off hours any day soon. We traded phone numbers and a couple of days later early afternoon met in a coffee shop, and on we were to my favourite hotel not too far from there. There ensued a good session, with all regular features and no worries whatsoever.

A good memory, I would do it again.

[Wendella]

If you go for a stunner in revealing, hot clothes who is cruising on a new Attila, Victoria, Elizabeth, Airblade etc. at night you may be in for a scam.

... or a ladyboy

For the record, I've paid first and been treated extremely well. You have to go by the feel of it. If there's red flags (such as lots of cel phone calls as soon as you've picked her up and continuing jsut a bit too much) then of course don't do it. But I'll tell you, if you refuse to pay first, then if you met 2 of the girls I have, you'd be ruling out some great experiences. Judging by your prices, what you get and personal rules, I'd say you're a much harder (and better!) bargainer than I am. That's cool, takes all kinds.

[Wendella]

Not wanting to be controversial, and to be sure there are plenty of STDs around so maybe wise to protect yourself, but does anyone actually know of anyone who has contracted "HIV/Aids" from heterosexual sex, whether with PFP girl or other. I'm not talking about anecdotal evidence of which there is a ton of course.

To my mind there are plenty of things to worry about in this world but this is not one of them.

Not sure how I can answer. You asked if we know of anyone who got the disease, but then you rule out anecdotal evidence, which if we did think of anyone, that's what it would be. "Anecdotal" means isolated individual examples. I guess you meant something else... anyway, it's not important. For me, back in the States I came face to face with plenty of people who had AIDS, some very advanced -- it's pretty chilling. How many? Dozens, I guess. I remember one co-worker in an office I was at for awhile. Emaciated with those brown patches all over. I didn't ask them how they got it, of course. In another forum -- Thailand and scene-related -- I've seen at least one member come on and announce to the community there that he'd contracted it. There might have been one other there too. (I remember another member who came on and said he was terminally ill -- but didn't reveal with what, so that one could have been another disease, or maybe not) (I can't post the site or URL acc to forum rules here but u can PM me for that -- you could go look at the guy's announcement even)

Whether you're going to worry about it or not is a personal choice. My guess is that people who post here, the more experienced you are, the higher the chance you've contracted SOMETHING at some point -- so many of you know by experience that it does happen. And Aids IS out there. Sex workers, females, do have much higher incidence of it than people in the mainstream -- and it is a health issue in Vietnam, hence the signs you see all over town. It's highest in the heroin scene -- and also high in prostitution -- and yes, hetero -- but keep in mind that some of these girls would be doing heroin too.

I guess anyone who wants to not worry about it can do that. But if it's an issue that's out there in the scene, then better for us to discuss it once in awhile here and be aware of it at least. Every person can make their own decisions of course, but better to do that based on knowing than ignorance.

There are websites that have the statistics by country -- so if that's what you are after, I've seen those and could just dig it up again. I expect Vietnam to be lower than most countries (in sub-Sahara Africa its huge for example) but definitely not a place where it doesn't exist.

[Johndao]

I've always had great luck in the Nguyen Binh Khiem, XVNT, NTMK, Le Duan area. I have take dozens of girls to hotels in the area in the last five years and had barely a problem. Almost always a great hour or 90 mins of suck and fuck and 75% of the time full series pictures as well. Always pay 150k or 200k and 80k for a hotel. Many got only 100k till last year.

There is definitely some skill involved evidently (didn't realize it before, till reading here). If you go for a stunner in revealing, hot clothes who is cruising on a new Attila, Victoria, Elizabeth, Airblade etc. at night you may be in for a scam. I never choose those girls no matter how good they look. If you pay them before you get what you deserve: nothing. They are workers, not a charity. Money ALWAYS come last and if you pay them first, that's the end! I have many pics of girls I met in the area, usually start with them dressed, then undressing, then all sex, and often dressing and leaving. You can see how they dress, who to look for.

PM me if you need more info.

JD

[Kumagai]

Dear Seniors,

I will be visiting HCMC from 20/8/09 to 25/8/09.

Kindly advice on Bia Om and massage places.

Which hotel is GF and how much for ON gilrs.

Thank you.

[Macheath]

Nailer et al...

the risk of disease, AIDS in particular.

Not wanting to be controversial, and to be sure there are plenty of STDs around so maybe wise to protect yourself, but does anyone actually know of anyone who has contracted "HIV/Aids" from heterosexual sex, whether with PFP girl or other. I'm not talking about anecdotal evidence of which there is a ton of course.

To my mind there are plenty of things to worry about in this world but this is not one of them.

[Mash Potatoes]

My 2 cents.

I've had a few experiences in this area. And yes! 99% of the girls will ask for upfront, but it's really because these girls do really and can easily get shafted (literally as well). So, it's mainly to prevent guys from doing a runner or not paying the initial agreed amount.

Sure, some girls will then roll over and do the starfish, but then again, other girls will really get into it knowing that you're their to have sex and enjoy it, not their to have sex then rip her off.

What I've been able to do is build an understanding with a certain motel owner. So whenever I pick a girl, I will only go to this motel. The owner their will indicate to the girl that I'm a serious player and so immediately she's relaxed when we go to the room. There are only a few number of 'safe' motels that these girls use, so must of the girls already know the place I like. A lot of the times, with this arrangement I don't even have to pay upfront cause the girl knows that I'm not going to do a runner.

The cost? . I pay 100, 000 for the room instead of the usual 50, 000. But for the connivence (I don't have to hand over ID) and working relationship, it's well worth the extra few bucks.

So it's not a dead end down there, just got to have your wits about you, and try to play the situation to your favour.

Cheers

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Wendella]

Nailer et al...

I do believe Nailer's experience there is his honest appraisal of the situation, his own at least. He and I did talk about (PM) how that area works, and what he reported back to me sounded like pretty likely outcomes. I'd say though that it sounded like he had higher expectations of what should be offered than what's normally on offer down there. Also have to keep in mind that that's a group that communicate with each other, and if you have a bad scene with one, you can pretty much bank on bad experiences with the rest after that. That bunch is usually WBTYM, but there are exceptions, or have been in the past. And no, not the 'prehistoric past' -- I think with line's like that he's just exaggerating because he feels irritated by how things went.

When he says 'it's the way it is now' -- I believe it's the way it is now for him, and I have to say that because: it's certainly not the way it was for me. And not that long ago. I don't trust his word over my own experience. On the other hand, it's also possible they've become more hardened recently. But I also have to say I'm not totally convinced of that based on just what I've seen reported form this one member.

Anyway, my current advice for this area, regardless, is to steer clear not due to this but because of the risk of disease, AIDS in particular. These girls do a LOT of business, and they must be about the highest risk working girls in the whole country. They do get picked up by African guys sometimes, and those are some very high risk customers. I hadn't taken this angle seriously enough until the guy who posted recently saying the girl he was with said she was infected. Maybe BS, (probably BS) but... it doeosn't take a genius to figure out which girls in VN would be the highest risk. The ones who sleep with the most different men the most often. Thats them to a T.

To Suds... I also don't think the no money upfront no deal, 0% satisfaction is a hard rule -- I've paid up front a few times and received amazingly good treatment. This segment in particular insist on it more and more these days, and I have a feeling it's due to their being ripped off that this has changed. I can think of 2 examples off top of my head who wanted pay first and then gave great performance.But you have to go by how it feels -- if you're sensing this is a ruthless type of girl, then no. Have to take chances sometimes.

[Nail The World]

Finally managed to screw a 9. Karaoke girl from Dist 5. 9 for me is a combination of looks, attitude and grace. This one had all of them.

I didn't even know about this area until a taxi driver I've been drinking coffee with for a month brought me to this area a few days ago. He took me to one which was ok, average girls but with splendid attitude. This is the one I went searching for but couldn't find it so I walked into another one.

When I walked in they were a little surprised, maybe because I was alone. Finally I was in the room and finally mamasan brought two girls. And all of a sudden I felt a rush of blood and my eyes widened. Are you kidding me? This is what I've been searching for all along! One total knockout with uninhibited smile, cheerful, unpretentious, confident but unassuming, perfect teeth, taller than average and the other one same height, fair, face better than average but not spectacular, shapely. My preferred one, girl #1 seemed a bit hesitant and laughingly motioned #2 to take the seat. After some hesitation from me they joked, "both?". "Yeah", cheers all around.

Pretty soon I got them singing Vietnamese songs and I targeted both of them alternately. #1 was very cooperative and as it turned out #2 was even more cooperative. She raised her level from 7 to 8 in my eyes. I made use of easy access to tits and found that she had ideal mango shaped tits. Soft body, she could be a 9 in your bed.

I was very impressed. I pulled out my phone and put it in front of #2. She was surprised. She picked it up and gave it back to me. What? I asked, "hotel?". She said no. Alright. Few minutes later I gave my phone to girl #1, she immediately punched in her number. "Ah", sigh of relief from me. "Hotel?". "Ok". Bingo. She was the one I wanted in the first place anyway. From here on full attention to #1 with interruptions on kissing initiatives of #2.

After hearing lot of Vietnamese songs it was time to go. Asked for the bill which I was a little shocked to see. But I noticed that they had already added generous tips for the girls. At this point of time in Vietnam I don't care about this kind of money anyway. Take this money but fucking deliver. Vietnamese haven't come across very well on the delivery side. These girls were outstanding. And I was there to run a show and get a number. This was the price I was going to pay. Once more chance in the name of Vietnamese chicks. As I was leaving I repeatedly confirmed with the girl that she was coming to the hotel.

11 o'clock she finished. Then she made several 20 second calls which I did not understand but which had the words "hotel, taxi, come". I would say yes then she would hang up. She came and delivered solid GFE. First time I can say this in Vietnam. And this from a 9. And she was not from the bars, or motorcycle or street.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[OzzieSuds]

Nailer - I don't need a pissing contest either.

But the advice is simple - if they want money up front then no deal. There is absolutely no way you will get satisfaction if they already have the money.

And I don't think that we are far apart on that - just that you were sufficiently curious or whatever to try it in order to see what happened.

Good luck with the motogals - there are many nicer morsels to be had in Vietnam.