Ho Chi Minh City - General Info

[Hyatt]

Hi there,

I've been a reader of this forum for a longtime but never really took the time to post a report or comment the ones online, so... here i come!

I'd like to share about the Ntmk/xvnt area, after i've read what ppl write about it, especially Nail The World, who looks like having a very bad opinion of this scene. Have to say first, I kinda agree with him.

The thing is that I'm living in that area, perhaps two minutes away from the bridge, in Binh Tanh. So this is my daily way to go downtown, and come back home. So, I know well the area.

Facts about the place:

- Yes, you can find some pretty chicks.

- The turn over is important. The scene is a mix of newbies and regulars - don't go with the regulars. They're usually un-friendly and dirty.

- Price to fuck is 500k. You can try to bargain, but most of them just leave you if you decrease your price. Which makes me think they've a lot of customers so they allow themselves to be so picky.

- You can get cheaper one, if she's a newbie. So go for it.

- Nobody speak english. Don't even try. The only word they all know: "money".

- I haven't seen a lot of westerns mongering there. Am i blind?

- Service isn't good. Don't expect to find a friendly chick ready to please you. It's all business. They want to do it quick.

- Some of them ask the money upfront, and leave you if you refuse. Of course, never pay upfront.

- I have no idea about AIDS prevalence in the area. What I know is that there's no problem to fuck them without condoms. Be careful, except if you like living dangerously.

- The park below is full of heroin junkies. Always check the arms and the teeths of a gal if you wanna fuck her.

- Most of gals want to take you in a hotel around. They hardly accept to follow you in your place. Even though i'm living two minutes away. But some are ok.

- They talk a lot to each other. If you mess up with one, all the gals of the area will avoid you. If you're fine with one, they will all be ok to go with you.

- This place is the police private gardenyard. They own everything, and have eyes everywhere. You see some in uniforms hidden in the park, on the brige, and lot of undercover fellas everywhere. Be aware that they know everything about you. The good thing is that it's very safe. The bad thing is that if you get trouble with their business, they will make your life impossible. So, be smart: never disturb the money flow. Nobody wants trouble with the cops here.

- Be extremly careful : those girls are professional robbers. Hide everything, and never leave your eyes from them once she's with you.

- Make sure no young fella on a motorbike is following you at distance if you take a girl back home. I've noticed some doing this to me already. The good thing is that I'm riding a a big sport motorbike, so they can't really compete :-). Some of those fellas can get into your house when you fuck the girl and rob you something. Watch out.

My experience so far: I took three girls home from there.

- One ugly chick, probably junkie and dirty. I was drunk, it was dark. I realized how bad she was back home. Gave 400k for a very bad service.

- One very cute young chick. I gave her 300k. She was shy, but very nice. And she really wanted to please me. Good service.

- One nice girl with awesome tits (big, round, crazy!). I took her for 500k. Bad service, was always asking for "boom boom" and didn't want to suck my cock. Had to insist a lot to have what I was ready to pay for.

I have to say 2 or 3 times I had 100% failure rate there. No chick wanted to follow me home, or they left me because I refused to pay upfront.Once a 9 (very beautiful!) followed me home, but just left because I refused to pay upfront. I was pissed. Then I went back to the scene, but she told all the chicks around I wasn't a good payer. Fucking *****.

My opinion about the Ntmk/xvnt scene: avoid it if possible. If you're really hungry, if you have time and if you don't get mad if one of them refuses you, then you can find a gal and have quick fun. But remember: service is bad.

Hope this helps ppl who have never been there.

Today, I've been to Linda, 29 dong khoi, D1. Nice bar, very cheap drinks, a lot of very pretty chicks. They sit with you and let you touch them everywhere (everywhere). If the mamasan is here (Linda) 300k for blowjob and 500k to fuck. But she wasn't, so the girls asked for 500k for blowjob. I said no. But it was lot of fun. Place I recommand.

Btw, anyone knows a place where to pick up gals to take them home, for no more than 500k? I'm still looking for a nice scene in town, but don't find any. Like a place where students girl go with you to make a bit of money... Any help appreciated.

Cheers, and sorry for approximate english.

[Wendella]

This (AIDS) is one aspect of the scene. It should be ok for us to discuss it, right?

Absolutely agree - especially good if you can discuss an issue with someone who's actually thought about it.

Well, I have, honest. Hope you're not implying I haven't.

OK no, I wasn't talking about the Thailand area of THIS forum. I was talking about one based in Thailand called Thai three sixty (type the numerals). If you go to that one you can find the posts I mentoined. (its the current incarnation of some others that were huge there a few years back called Nana plaza and Nana pong -- same people, lots of long time expats). Anyway, if you go there, do an advanced search to find posts over a year ago from a member named Junglesoup, it's one titled Warning to Everyone...

So on this individual level, we now know of 2 guys who engage in unprotected sex and are fine so far, and one who isn't. I think if we look it up we're going to find statistics that there are plenty of people dying of AIDS in Thailand. I'm going to guess tens of thousands per year, and probably infection rates much higher than anywhere else in SEA. That's rife enough for me.

I don't remember this Opebo guy -- he's disreputable... over this... or?

If you want an example of how it can and does spread among heteros, just look at sub-Saharan (black) Africa. Enormous rates and spread mainly by hetero sex, especially cheap hookers. Annual death toll tops a million and infection rates in some countries over 20% (adults). I'd be curious to hear Opebo's explanation for this, since over there AIDS is being transmitted mainly by people doing exactly what Opebo is doing.

Your idea of a study: accepted medical view is that unprotected sex with people who have HIV risks contracting the disease, and therefore risks death. So I think the main reason that study wouldn't happen, at least not set up that way, is because it would be seen as diabolical to send people out into what are considered high-risk situations just to see what happens. But to know if it's risky or not, it probably can be learned by studying how the disease gets contracted -- can it be contracted from a vagina? -- and if so under what conditions (during a period, for example, or if there are open sores inside, or when exactly). Basically, if her blood has the virus, and that gets inside you somehow, that's when it gets dangerous, as I understand it.

[Milkweed]

11 o'clock she finished. Then she made several 20 second calls which I did not understand but which had the words "hotel, taxi, come". I would say yes then she would hang up. She came and delivered solid GFE. First time I can say this in Vietnam. And this from a 9. And she was not from the bars, or motorcycle or street.

How much $ for the GFE?

[OzzieSuds]

The figures are interesting but so are the practicalities. Think for a moment about the way an average VN girl goes off - they are gushers and the juices go everywhere including places that the condom does not cover. So my thinking is that the condom does more to protect the girl than the guy in these circumstances.

That means that we should be encouraging the active girls to use condoms because that protects them from guys that have something and down the track provides a degree of protection to us.

Personally I seek to develop relationships with the non-active girls that abound and tend to do them raw. If I take out from somewhere I cover it.

But is not foolproof.

[Wendella]

So, as a single guy, he has now abandoned condoms, which he hates as much as me.

Hm. Dunno. Authorities? Create fear? That could be taken to sound like AIDS isn't real, it's a conspiracy. That's not what you mean, I hope.

What I mentoined before, I'm actually not allowed to post the link here to that guy's report where he lets people in that other forum know that his test came back positive. I actually tried to PM the link to Macheath but he can't receive messages. Anyway, the statistics didn't help that guy much.

Not sure if you caught it but we were talking about some motorbike girls, ones who do a few customers per night. These girls might be doing over 1000 guys in a year. And they do drugs, and some of them probably do heroin.

Your stats are for general population, but we're not talking about any kind of average or common profile here. What are the statistics of drug-using prostitutes who have multiple partners per day? What % of those 10 million Aussie guys are going around banging heaps of different girls like these? I'm guessing very few.

I'd say out in the real world, with non-promiscuous girls, ok then even I'd probably go without condom sometimes. But with hookers? Like these? No way.

[Gangles]

I do not have figures for VN, however in Australia, about 5% of those contracting HIV were by heterosexual sex. The vast majority are homosexual or intravenous drug users.

I am not a condom user, and when I get home from a trip, I always go to my doc to get a full blood test for any possible diseases. So far none

My doc was initially horrified that I do not use condom, but I painted the basic picture pf statistics.

We have about 20 million Australians, half are male, 10 million, about half are sexually active, 5 million.

In Australia, average rate of sex is once per month. hence 60 million fucks per year.

Infection rate for HIV/AIDS is about 1100 per year.

60,000,000 fucks leading to 1100 infections is about 1:60,000, that is, negligible risk.

However if we consider heterosex only, infection rate is about 50 per year, that is a risk factor of 1:1.2million. Almost infinitely small risk.

He really sat back. Said he had never thought of it like that, just took the propaganda that is dished up by the authorities to create fear.

So, as a single guy, he has now abandoned condoms, which he hates as much as me.

he is about 40.

Make up your own mind.

G

[Macheath]

This (AIDS) is one aspect of the scene. It should be ok for us to discuss it, right?

Absolutely agree - especially good if you can discuss an issue with someone who's actually thought about it.

I don't have much to add but maybe just a bit more on anecdotal evidence on this issue. You brought up the Thailand board - there's a number of guys there who openly state/boast that they are only interested in sex without condom. One especial idiot, can't remember the name, supposedly and ludicrously goes around with health certificates which he produces to the girls to show that he's disease free and infertile - boasts that he's had over 100 P4P girls in Bangkok without condom, and he does all sorts. Another member, Opebo, who to me comes across as the smartest although maybe disreputable Thailand poster, shuns the use of condoms and also chooses from the bargain basement. Note also that these guys are into anal which seems to be the gold standard service in Thailand - why this should be so is maybe another issue to discuss.

Now if these anecdotal reports have any truth there's a lot of high risk behaviour over there and the virus should be rife and people dropping like flies. I can't read his mind but I'd say that Opebo for one, who self medicates to cure other STD's so obviously accepts that unprotected sex has risks, has concluded that he's not in danger of getting the virus from a girl. On the other hand there's many reports of guys having a moment of weakness and not using the condom, or the condom breaks etc. and they talk of the 3 months of worries and sleepless nights ahead while waiting for the test results. The idiot with the health certificates supposedly keeps getting re tested - would think that at some stage he'd wake up and think maybe not risky after all. This guy however is such an idiot that his reports are likely fantasies of a one handed typist.

I think an interesting study, obviously never going to happen of course, would be to use some of the truckloads of HIV/AIDS research money for funding bareback customers of sex workers, and the workers themselves, to pursue their hobby/occupation - keep records and test them all after 6 months or a year. After all would just be paying them to scientifically do what they're already doing. Might shed a bit of light on actual risks.

To change the subject to 2 other anecdotes going around:

1. The cops are stopping foreigners riding motorbikes and checking for licence and ownership papers - if you can't produce then bike gets impounded. I might be worried about this one.

2. Motor bike and bar girls are putting drugs on their nipples to knock out their customers before robbery. Interesting idea but don't think that nipple lickers should be too worried about this one - robberies here are generally pretty low tech.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Nail The World]

Chicken, how would rate the girls at cafe oms in dist 6 and damsen from 1 to 10 in terms of their appearance and attitude?

What is damsen?

[Nail The World]

Few more words come to mind -

Drive through fucking.

Assembly line fornication.

She stopped, she fucked, she drove.

[Nail The World]

My question is is it weird to go to bia om by yourself,

How the fuck does it matter? It's weird for who? You aren't going to live your life out of that place, so go do what you want.

and how much is a typical night at either a karaoke or bia om.

In my case I was clear about my goal. I was there to run a show and get a phone number, so I couldn't have hesitated about the bill. Also, there's no way in hell I am going back there again. It was just for once. If I did go there again they would push the same girls to me which would not serve my purpose. I let them open as much of anything they wanted (Tiger beer) and tipped generously. In both cases the bill was 1.4m. In one case I tipped 200K each to three people and in one case they added 400K tip for each of the two beauties. This is about Karaokes in dist 5.

One day I was just strolling around Le Than Ton and Thi Sach and saw an alley with lot of lights. I walked over and saw Karaoke after Karaoke from end to end. The very first one said "Japanese". I walked all the way down the street to have a look and back to go check out what the fuck do they mean by "Japanese". Again, I was by myself. The girl who I picked was an absolute knockout, the kind you would see in the house of a young CEO. Not all girls were like this mind you. Got her number, she ruled out going to hotel, so discussed going out during daytime a few days later. The night before at midnight she sends me message, "tomorrow can you buy me a new phone?". I deleted her number.

but can u guys post a few address of reputable bia om

Can't help you with that but you seem to be on the right track.

[Wendella]

W - don't have dictionary at hand but I interpret "anecdotal" as something heard second hand or further back, often not much different from rumour. An anecdote is a short story and often goes eg. my friends brother in law met someone who told him ....OR I haven't seen so and so for a long time, someone told me he might have contracted something. Anecdotal "evidence" can be helpful but wouldn't rely on it.

I can add more about HIV/Aids if anyone interested or just leave it at that. I know we live in the age of experts where you even need advice on how to feed yourself, but some of us can look around and make up our own minds.

I don't think 'anecdotal' means it's dubious hearsay. I think the word means something more like not comprehensive or not scientific -- just individual accounts/examples that might or might not represent the overall trend. Like what I just mentioned was my own experience, but then there's probably a lot more people who didn't have the same experience, so mine's just anecdotal. but if you think about it, almost everything posted in these forums is anecdotal. Anyway, not important.

I'm no expert at all on this, just another guy. This is a place for non-experts to share their non-expert advice. This (AIDS) is one aspect of the scene. It should be ok for us to discuss it, right? I mean, yes it's a downer, makes people uncomfortable... but that's what it is. Anyway, I said what I wanted to about it... don't have anything to add. People can PM me for links if they want to know more.

[Macheath]

Not sure how I can answer. You asked if we know of anyone who got the disease, but then you rule out anecdotal evidence, which if we did think of anyone, that's what it would be. "Anecdotal" means isolated individual examples.

W - don't have dictionary at hand but I interpret "anecdotal" as something heard second hand or further back, often not much different from rumour. An anecdote is a short story and often goes eg. my friends brother in law met someone who told him ....OR I haven't seen so and so for a long time, someone told me he might have contracted something. Anecdotal "evidence" can be helpful but wouldn't rely on it.

I can add more about HIV/Aids if anyone interested or just leave it at that. I know we live in the age of experts where you even need advice on how to feed yourself, but some of us can look around and make up our own minds.

[OzzieSuds]

This is directed to nail, johndao, sudoz, or any other person who knows.

I have been in viet for awhile and im knowledgeble in a few areas, but one area i havent yet tried is the kareoke or bia om thing. My question is is it weird to go to bia om by yourself, and how much is a typical night at either a kareoke or bia om. Finally i know a few bio om on tran phu and hung vuong, but can u guys post a few address of reputable bia om or in nails case the karoke and the total price?

I have only been to upmarket Karaoke with clients - usually Japanese so I can't help much. Did go once to a Bia Om in Phuong Tan Dinh area but again with business people so not very productive. Definitely a language barrier that could be overcome by actions.

These places tend to get raided if they become too prominent - unless they have deep pockets like Boss at Fortuna in Hanoi.

[MutantChicken]

This is directed to nail, johndao, sudoz, or any other person who knows.

I have been in viet for awhile and im knowledgeble in a few areas, but one area i havent yet tried is the kareoke or bia om thing. My question is is it weird to go to bia om by yourself, and how much is a typical night at either a kareoke or bia om. Finally i know a few bio om on tran phu and hung vuong, but can u guys post a few address of reputable bia om or in nails case the karoke and the total price?

[Nail The World]

My Karaoke report got buried in this dialog! As of now I have the feeling that this should have been my source number one for chicks, the karaokes of district 5, with the caveat that they can only see you after 11pm. Also, their English skills are 0 to 1, including those of mamasan's at some places. But in such a case it should be possible to find another girl who can help communicate. Get her to be part of your group.

This one who had slept for a night at my place has gone to see her folks and I would love to do without beer for few days anyway. She was excited about the idea of going to a nightclub. I will see how it goes but so far it is looking good. In the morning I had asked the motorbike guy to not take payment from her but he told me she insisted on paying, a welcome break from the clamor of "tip, tip, tip".