American Women

[Bango Cheito]

Unfortunately, every country on Earth keeps decently accurate immigration statistics, NO country bothers to keep decently accurate emigration statistics... I still have a NYC address I receive mail at, and go back to visit. In the eyes of statisticians I probably still live here.

My personal examples go way beyond 5 or 10 people. I'm a professional musician so I'm constantly meeting people, by the 1000s or even 10000s... I'm thoroughly convinced the number of people leaving is much much greater than people realize.

There is no doubt it sucks to have dark skin, pretty much the world over. I'd be an idiot to say there is no racism here. People here have much the same stupid stereotypes of black people as they do anywhere else. That's a completely different issue though, and not one I can do much about... I can only influence people by the 1000s and 10000s at this point :P

[Monger#77]

Updated 3/10/10 0800, by Tyger Armstrong

America is being systematically dismantled, and people dont want to acknowledge it. I will list here some things that have happened by design but that people still believe just happen to be coincidence:
1. Signing of free trade agreements (i.e. NAFTA) that send US jobs offshore, resulting in the loss of millions upon millions of manufacturing jobs. This has killed the entire US midwest, a part of the economy whose economy has been dead long before any crash.
2. NY Bankers manipulating the cost of oil and the crash of the USD with the use of derivatives that no one can understand, for literally trillions.
3. Fed paying those same NY bankers who swindled the US economy
4. Republican and Democratic plans to legalize over 10 million illegal immigrants.
5. Expiration of Bush tax cuts, planned rise in Capital gains tax, Cadillac Healthcare Tax, and many other taxes
6. Every single state's economy ruined, except possibly Texas, due to excessive state taxation and state regulations running productive businesses to Texas (we hope) or to Mexico
7. Socialist Health care plan that really has nothing to do with helping the uninsured but more with expanding the power of the political class
8. Prospective Cap and Trade Treaties that will tax citizens for each unit of carbon they emit (Bullshit!)
9. Educational system that teaches Marxism (one of the principles that Men went to Vietnam*, et al to fight against is being pumped into the minds of young children. Why arent the vets standing up to THIS INJUSTICE?)
10. Selling our National Debt to China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, et al
11. US Refusal to drill for oil off the coast of California and deeper in Alaska which would save us from having to buy oil from nations whose citizen's dont like us too much.
12. Committing self-genocide with feminism, divorce atrocities, single parenthood, birth control and abortion, resulting on the need to import people from the third world in order to maintain population numbers.

13.I forgot to add one important thing to the list: the highest per capita imprisonment rate in the entire world, even compared to Iran, China, Japan, Russia, North Korea.

14. The turning of inner cities into de facto reservations for the permanently unemployed/welfare class, dominated by gangs and effectively abandoned by the government.

15. Refusal of US to use Nuclear Power plants in greater numbers (like France which gets most of its power from Nuclear plants, or like China which is currently building more plants, with virtually no risk of fallout or radiation).

[Clandestine782]

did you say new economy?

which new one are talking about? they just put humpy dumpy back together again that's all. congress, the treasury and federal reserve are all run by wall st.

obama may come out with populace rhetoric from time to time but many economist say we're in-line for a double dip and unemployment even with an aggressive push by government will result in at least 8-9% official rate (16-18% unofficial but more realistic) until 2015. they also say it won' t be down to normal levels until 2020 (3-4%)

you might speed that up with some aggressive policy that puts money in the hands of the people because consumption is 70% of the economy and that's down 20-30%.

its an enormous catch 22....

if you have banks that don't wanna give out easy loans anymore and a good 2/3 of the population doesn't wanna see that point in history return again, you're going to have to find some way to either lower cost elsewhere and raise wages so people can afford to shop. you're going to have to reduce the cost of an upper education and regulate interest rates on credit cards, car loans and short term loans (payday).

some of this is largely unpopular with neo-conservatives but if your a eisenhower republican you won't have a problem with much of what i just said.

as some have said it would have been much better to give the people $800 billion dollars and do 2 trillion in infrastructure projects than to give the banks the money so the top 2% won't have to take a hair cut.

this really is a weird thing to say. how do you put more money in the hands of the same people out of whose hands you took it in the first place? if you and i are two relatives, and we have a nickel and we share it back and forth between us enough times, do you think we can stretch it out into a million dollars worth of services? the thing that left the federal government holding the bill was the federal deposit insurance. the government is trying to figure out more regulation to "fix" the banks, and if they just stop guaranteeing their deposits things would fix themselves. (and this is not speculation. look at the banking policy of any currency board country and you'll see that they just never let banks get big enough to be "too big to fail.")

and same thing again: if the population in the us is so *willfully stupid* and so determined to not read newspapers or books and be informed about their surroundings (but people who are on wall street are willing to figure out how things and work and use that to their advantage), then are people in the us getting their just desserts? (just finished a book a few months back about the willful stupidity of voters called "the myth of the rational voter.")

obama is a lying asshole. i have posted a nice article in the american politics section of some journalist who bothered to count the lies that he gave in various speeches and preemptively rebut some of them before they came out.

as far as the reading: minimum wages are the same logical thing as price controls. price controls haven't worked for the last 4,000 years. i don't think they are going to become feasible in this election cycle. all of these misconceptions are easily checked against reality in some popular economics text, but most voters can't even bother to do *that* much. yes, you can put money in the "hands of the people" (of course taken out of the hands of other people, but i digress), but you can't make them spend it. in technical terms, i believe this is called "not being able to influence the velocity of money" and you can also know that such liquidity traps are very difficult to fix. (i am just reading a biography of milton friedman that i should have finished by the end of this week. he studied and characterized said traps *par excellence*.)

[Clandestine782]

Well duh, the US economy has not done well over the last decade and this new one is off to a bad start. So what do you expect? A lot of Aussies cannot fathom that the US has went to shit, mostly the global media is trying to keep the illusion of prosperity going.

Ok, so now is 2010. Do you really mean to tell me that since 2000 the economy has been slower? And if so, by how much slower? (Keep in mind that the growth rate has been an average of 2.3% for the past 230 years. Slow and steady.) I mean, honestly: I don't know why you are making such a point to go ON AND ON spending so much time thinking about the United States. We don't return you the favor (=90% of Americans don't spend even 30 seconds per week thinking about Australia and could not tell you anything about Aborigines). So, why waste so much of your own time worried about people who don't do you the pleasure of doing the same?

[Clandestine782]

I think the NET difference was positive for decades right up till about 10 years ago... these days there are more leaving than coming in... definitely in the 1980s it seemed like half of Latin America wound up in NYC... those were not in general the best years for Latin America.... Brazil and Agentina had economic meltdowns... Colombia saw an incredible surge in violence, the Caribbean economy tanked in the mid 80s as well... conditions these days are VERY different...

All you have to do is learn real fluent Spanish and gain the trust of people to hear the REAL story about what they think... and it's not just Latinos.... it's people from all over...

Colombia where I now life and love it, is a REAL hard place to move away from, people have NO IDEA when they leave here how much they will be missing, but they find out real fast....

Ok, so you say that more are leaving than coming in (I would love to believe you, since the outflux of people who would turn the USA into another Canada/ Belgium/ India/ Africa is something that I would jump with joy to see), do you have any single piece of direct evidence? Any census statistics? Any academic publications? I get the distinct impression that you did not look up "availability bias."

1. How many people have you talked to that tell you this? If you have 5 experiences like this, then can I extrapolate that to 10 million people? 20 million?

2. I have had the experience many times where someone wants to believe something and they will RE-interpret *everything* that they hear to fit that preconceived idea. But I know more certain than I have known almost anything that you cannot trust the accuracy of people who claim to witness something.

3. I dealt with the "Mystical Language" myth several posts ago. I've heard it OVER AND OVER from Chinese people who say that reality takes on a whole different meaning if it is described in Chinese as opposed to any other language. And then when I answer them in Chinese, it becomes "Oh, there is some cultural misunderstanding between foreigners and Chinese" and the conversation is then closed.

[DJ FourMoney]

I think the NET difference was positive for decades right up till about 10 years ago... these days there are more leaving than coming in... definitely in the 1980s it seemed like half of Latin America wound up in NYC... those were not in general the best years for Latin America.... Brazil and Agentina had economic meltdowns... Colombia saw an incredible surge in violence, the Caribbean economy tanked in the mid 80s as well... conditions these days are VERY different...

All you have to do is learn real fluent Spanish and gain the trust of people to hear the REAL story about what they think... and it's not just Latinos.... it's people from all over...

Colombia where I now life and love it, is a REAL hard place to move away from, people have NO IDEA when they leave here how much they will be missing, but they find out real fast....

Nope more people coming in than leaving. Some 3 Million Americans live outside the United States, we let in 50,000 a year with the Green Card Lottery and who knows how many more in through normal channels.

We are also having 6 million babies a year. So you couldn't have enough people "leaving" to have any sort of "dent" you would like to believe is happening.

BC you love your life down in Colombia but your either Latino or White. The way the world is setup you're at an advantage it really doesn't matter where you are.

Those with darker skin are less than. Only in India and Africa is that largely not the case. The poorest people in Colombia are those of African and West Indian decent. Same with Brazil, other countries have indigenous populations that are darker and poor.

Like I said before racism among Latin Americans is not talked about but plainly obvious to those paying attention.

[DJ FourMoney]

well duh, the us economy has not done well over the last decade and this new one is off to a bad start. so what do you expect? a lot of aussies cannot fathom that the us has went to shit, mostly the global media is trying to keep the illusion of prosperity going.

did you say new economy?

which new one are talking about? they just put humpy dumpy back together again that's all. congress, the treasury and federal reserve are all run by wall st.

obama may come out with populace rhetoric from time to time but many economist say we're in-line for a double dip and unemployment even with an aggressive push by government will result in at least 8-9% official rate (16-18% unofficial but more realistic) until 2015. they also say it won' t be down to normal levels until 2020 (3-4%)

you might speed that up with some aggressive policy that puts money in the hands of the people because consumption is 70% of the economy and that's down 20-30%.

its an enormous catch 22....

if you have banks that don't wanna give out easy loans anymore and a good 2/3 of the population doesn't wanna see that point in history return again, you're going to have to find some way to either lower cost elsewhere and raise wages so people can afford to shop. you're going to have to reduce the cost of an upper education and regulate interest rates on credit cards, car loans and short term loans (payday).

some of this is largely unpopular with neo-conservatives but if your a eisenhower republican you won't have a problem with much of what i just said.

as some have said it would have been much better to give the people $800 billion dollars and do 2 trillion in infrastructure projects than to give the banks the money so the top 2% won't have to take a hair cut.

[DJ FourMoney]

quite a few americans in australia who are in oz because of very big debts left behind in america. australian banks only consider local credit history not something overseas. i knew someone who wound up destitute after 9-11 and ran off to australia.

to many aussies america is a shithole.

dj if you are so unhappy in the us and hate your life there, go somewhere else. canada is a great place to start. much better than the us of kkka.

i don't "hate" my life, its what you make of it. i love california we're about to take a major sociological step forward and fast-track our modernizing of the infrastructure. i hope i can become involved in the infrastructure rebuilding and setup my life until at least 80-90 years old.

but since it takes a long time to get federal or even state funds approved for a project even if its been green-lighted by the population. i got roughly another year before ground is broken on high speed rail and everything that goes with it and least another year away from a massive push in renewable energy because we're not having an argument about climate change here.

in that gap i want to solidify my personal life, this is the time to do it, i don't wanna do it when i'm working 8-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week. i am tired of going sexless/relationship-less, mexico is fine but its only a stop-gap for sexual fulfillment, the language barrier i don't believe will allow for much more than that.

we'll see what happens in the next 10-15 months, i'm sure you'll know about it.

[DJ FourMoney]

Sigh...... Can you convince as many as you know to leave and not come back? If they plan to leave the USA and are trapped by debt, to whom do they owe the money? If it's someone in the United States, then they could just leave and duck out on the debt. Or do these examples even exist anywhere except in your head?

If you want to get a bit more technical: Everyone knows that some people come in and some people go out but the point is that the NET difference is positive. (The same idea is behind the reasoning that if the population in some country is growing then the number of people that are being born are exceeding the number that are dying such that the population is increasing at the rate.) So if South Americans are trying to extend their country into the United States, then they are leaving in smaller numbers than are entering such that the net balance is positive. So, just because you can come up with a few examples of people that say that that they want to go, that is not enough to explain the excess of people that *still are* in the country.

Look up the word (that I have used on here many times): "Availability Bias."

I know that a lot of university students (past and present) are always looking at something about which to be inflamed (to feed their sense of crisis). But there may not be an issue at all here.

He's right all you have to look at the Diversity Program, it just let in another 50,000* in the Green Card Lottery for 2010 and this happens every year since the mid 80's and NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THAT, when the political shinny object is Brown people coming across the boarder. While overall Mexican and Central Americans entering the US is down, its not down to a trickle and all the boarder agents and "Minutemen" have gone home, quite the contrary.

[Australiasucks]

Well duh, the US economy has not done well over the last decade and this new one is off to a bad start. So what do you expect? A lot of Aussies cannot fathom that the US has went to shit, mostly the global media is trying to keep the illusion of prosperity going.

[Bango Cheito]

I think the NET difference was positive for decades right up till about 10 years ago... these days there are more leaving than coming in... definitely in the 1980s it seemed like half of Latin America wound up in NYC... those were not in general the best years for Latin America.... Brazil and Agentina had economic meltdowns... Colombia saw an incredible surge in violence, the Caribbean economy tanked in the mid 80s as well... conditions these days are VERY different...

All you have to do is learn real fluent Spanish and gain the trust of people to hear the REAL story about what they think... and it's not just Latinos.... it's people from all over...

Colombia where I now life and love it, is a REAL hard place to move away from, people have NO IDEA when they leave here how much they will be missing, but they find out real fast....

[Australiasucks]

We already realize what a banana republic America turned out to be, nearly a year into the Obama administration things are the same. A few years ago many young Aussies wanted to go to America now they are staying home.

I totally think Bango is full of it when he says Hispanics hate the US, the population numbers say something totally different. I have been to the US many times and California in particular.

In Australia we have large scale Asian immigration, but most people do not have a problem with it since the Aussie economy is propelled by Asian growth. We do have problems like anywhere else but I think we do pretty well by global standards.

[Westy]

The heading of this thread is curiously called "American Women". If you're so bored with what you deem to be repetitive postings, then I suggest you find another thread rather than hijack this one with off-topic politics, descriptions of the culture and way of life of various European countries, immigration policies in South America, Brazilians of Japanese ancestry, which women make the best LTR/STR etc.

There is, however, a valid reason for this "forum creep". It's a serious threat to our particular pastime, here on ISG. It's the "feminazification" of women outside the USA, which could be compared to the spread of an infection.

The Americanization of realpolitik, in different countries, seems to be responsible for the spread of this "***** flu." Any monger with an eye toward the future should be aware of this, as it's a clear and present danger to our enjoyment of Life, Liberties, and the Pursuit of Poontang.

I am, or at least I have been, proud of the USA, land of my birth. However, the social values currently enforced in my homeland are more and more like a strangle-knot around my manly hydraulics. Doesn't take much reading of this thread to see that I'm not alone in this assessment.

The worrisome question for us, then, is "How do we get free of this scourge?" It should be followed by, "Where can we go to be sure it won't spread and swallow us up again?" I think that tracking this epidemic of ***** Flu is germane to our discussion of the AW Menace.

[Capt Ajax]

Wall Street banks, are busy alienating the world against America's interests through their unethical and shockingly predatory business practices. American expats are going to be in a world of hurt, when people around the world realize how U.S financial institutions have created and sold weapons of Financial destruction, derivatives, to pension, hedge, mutual, funds all over the world.

Quite a few Americans in Australia who are in Oz because of very big debts left behind in America. Australian banks only consider local credit history not something overseas. I knew someone who wound up destitute after 9-11 and ran off to Australia.

To many Aussies America is a shithole.

DJ if you are so unhappy in the US and hate your life there, go somewhere else. Canada is a great place to start. Much better than the US of KKKA.

[Australiasucks]

Quite a few Americans in Australia who are in Oz because of very big debts left behind in America. Australian banks only consider local credit history not something overseas. I knew someone who wound up destitute after 9-11 and ran off to Australia.

To many Aussies America is a shithole.

DJ if you are so unhappy in the US and hate your life there, go somewhere else. Canada is a great place to start. Much better than the US of KKKA.