FKK Oase - Burgholzhausen

[Steve 9696]

But think about it from the girls' point of view though. Do you think that they want to walk around with different colored wristbands indicating that some of them are "luxury" while others are cheap "beaters"? May work well with inanimate objects like cars, but not so much with people with emotions and feelings looking to compete for business and make some money.

Not so sure I agree. I think the girls already completely know the hierarchy and who the top girls are versus second tier etc. They've known since middle school. And yet the second tier girls are asked to hold the line on price and charge same as top tier girls. And by supporting the cartel they are under cutting their ability to make proper money. Let the top girls have the whales. Let the second tier girls have the dolphins.

Guess it's all a scholastic argument anyhow. I'll just keep going and pay what I pay. And others what they pay and then we'll argue about it and fuck some more anyhow. LOL.

[Mursenary]

Mongers who post to forums are the one percent Mongers. We prioritize mongering. And in general, "pretty girls" are significantly more important to us than they are to casual mongers.

Back in 2013, Oase was the undisputed king of Hessen. Between 2012-2014, Sharks was empty. When upselling spread like a cancer at Oase, the mongers slowly migrated to Sharks over the course of 3-5 years. What makes you think history could not repeat itself and a competing Hessen club could take the crown back?

Again, a lot of these young bearded guys I would guess have a social life. They are not middle-aged bachelors who spend all day reading sex forums. These guys are not aware that market conditions have improved at Mainhattan (based on

I share your assessment that both the forum here does not paint the entire picture and that the market is in flux.

Sharks has benefited from being the only major show in town this past summer with the most girls and thus the most clients. This led to a positive feedback situation where as word got out that Sharks was busy, more girls from other clubs migrated to Sharks, which led to more clients. Add the scarcity of girls currently working and you get the current situation at Sharks.

But on closer inspection, the young "bearded" clients dominate the scene. They are hardly the biggest spenders which leads me to believe that this level of pricing cannot sustain itself. Girls themselves complain that they aren't making any money despite a packed room of men. You can even see girls leaving as the late night crowds arrive. It's not a question of if, but when, many girls explore other venues.

Add that Sharks management openly refuses to cater to the Middle Eastern vibe (not changing the music, not allowing Shisha,) the market is open for other clubs to seize the party crowd looking for a different ambiance. Just before COVID, the clientele in discussion packed Oase, filled the lounge with Shisha, the girls there partied with them, etc. The same scene has not been replicated at Sharks to keep these guys coming indefinitely. The recent good reports of Mainhattan suggests that girls are adapting or perhaps even forced to adapt by the management of other clubs. It's inevitable that the crowds will tire of visiting the same club and will surely explore other venues. If these clubs provide a more catering ambiance where the girls charge more competitive prices, well, we can see a market rebalance.

Now this will rely on a large influx of girls returning to Germany to supply competing clubs, which is possible that we may not ever see.

Point is, I will not judge the future of the FKK scene and the pricing structure based on current market conditions. Too much is in flux and from what I've noticed, both Germans and Romanians are slow to adapt. Point is, it's a bit too early to make declarations that what we are observing in Hessen will be the situation 6 months from now. Hell, it's possible that an Alpha Zulu variant can come along and shut the whole damn thing down again and we're back at square one.

[McAdonis]

The acid test is the line up. If the girls are pretty enough, the boys will come. With their cash and ready to spend it. Been proven many times over and very much what has happened in Madrid and Malaga in the last 12 months.

Mongers who post to forums are the one percent Mongers. We prioritize mongering. And in general, "pretty girls" are significantly more important to us than they are to casual mongers.

As many have noted Sylvana is busier than half of the WGs at Sharks, but I think most would agree she is not in the top 50 percent of optics, unless one just has a GILF fetish. Optics may be everything to us. Not necessarily true for the casual mongers.

Most mongers do zero research and are not plugged into the hardcore monger newscycle. They tag along to the FKK club because it is a boys night out. Many casual mongers will just attend whatever club they are accustomed to based on intel they received two years ago, unaware that another club recently got a busload of fresh new beauties from Romania. Or another club currently has more favorable pricing. Whereas hardcore mongers will read a report on Thursday night about a "20 year old German top optic" debuting at a club and then drive 200-500 km and be in attendance Friday night.

And the rationale above about Sharks losing its customer base. Sorry - that is not happening. Just think of this. Out of the four clubs I visited this weekend, the worst on pricing was undoubtedly Sharks with some girls making crazy demands (Oase was not a long way behind though). And which of those four clubs was busiest with most men. You guessed it. Sharks - the most expensive club.

Back in 2013, Oase was the undisputed king of Hessen. Between 2012-2014, Sharks was empty. When upselling spread like a cancer at Oase, the mongers slowly migrated to Sharks over the course of 3-5 years. What makes you think history could not repeat itself and a competing Hessen club could take the crown back?

Again, a lot of these young bearded guys I would guess have a social life. They are not middle-aged bachelors who spend all day reading sex forums. These guys are not aware that market conditions have improved at Mainhattan (based on recent reports from two mongers). They may not even be aware that there exists a club on the east end of Frankfurt called Mainhattan (because Mainhattan does not have Sharks' advertising budget). Hardcore mongers read the forum everyday and monitor developments in real-time. So yes, it is quite possible that many hardcore optics-oriented mongers gravitate to Sharks for the reasons you stated: the best optics of fall 2021. But the casual mongers that are currently gravitating to Sharks? It is quite possible that Sharks captures their business based on the brand name and reputation that they established in 2016-2017 as the premier mongering destination in Hessen.

[The Cane]

God I miss the Polish girls. The opposite of stereotypes the inexperienced imagine. Some super hot. Almost all *very* affectionate. Also lots of blonds and pale skin.

Also miss those blonde Polish girls who used to work the clubs when I first started patronizing them. Sigh!

[Neurosynth]

The best times in our clubs was in early 2000, when Polish girls mostly prevailed.

God I miss the Polish girls. The opposite of stereotypes the inexperienced imagine. Some super hot. Almost all *very* affectionate. Also lots of blonds and pale skin.

[BobNSuzy]

I would like to be able to walk out early and pay a cheaper standard price. Do people do that? I remember reading someone has done that. Usually, I am reminding myself of what I agreed upfront.

[Mursenary]

The wrist bands would be so great. Don't have the coin for the black belt? Take the yellow belt instead. No guessing. No negotiation. Would be great to have a "price" wristband on one arm and a "performance" wrist band on the other arm. You can now decide based off her looks, price, and performance at a glance. Guessing I'm just dreaming but that sounds perfect.

Would be curious to see a real world environment where western women would be willing to dorn a garmet that tags her as being worth less than the girl standing right next to her.

[The Cane]

You make some great points and I like your apples analogy and agree fixed price is much better than negotiating and honestly I have an easier time telling and apple vendor his apples are overpriced than telling a girl her pussy isn't worth 100! LOL.
Oh
You are right that having different clubs accomplishes this to some extent. We all know Globe is premium. And it looks like Scandallo on the CDS is headed that way. And perhaps Sharks to some extent as well and thus the consternation.

The wrist bands would be so great. Don't have the coin for the black belt? Take the yellow belt instead. No guessing. No negotiation. Would be great to have a "price" wristband on one arm and a "performance" wrist band on the other arm. You can now decide based off her looks, price, and performance at a glance. Guessing I'm just dreaming but that sounds perfect.

But think about it from the girls' point of view though. Do you think that they want to walk around with different colored wristbands indicating that some of them are "luxury" while others are cheap "beaters"? May work well with inanimate objects like cars, but not so much with people with emotions and feelings looking to compete for business and make some money.

[Steve 9696]

You addressed a very essence of German, or Central European mindset. Of course, we accept the fact that fancier things cost more than less fancy. But that does not prevent us from hating price discussions, bargaining, haggling. When we are buying apples on the market, we want a clear price tag. We don't want to live in the society where everything, from said apples to logging prices, to whatever else depends on our negotiating skills. Of course, there are better and word apples, but then put one in the first basked and others in the other one. And mark the first one 5 EUR per kilo and the second one 2 EUR per kilo, does not matter, but we want to know how much is it.

Now consider a FKK sauna club as a place of relaxation, pure enjoy and carelessness. One of the first things we don't want in such a place is to negotiate for a price. The best times in our clubs was in early 2000, when Polish girls mostly prevailed. Then Romanians came, and the fixed price structure started to break down. Nov, after Covid, it is even worse.

So, how do you think to make your system work? One solution could be to have more categories of clubs, which is in fact already in place. So Sharks, Oase and Palace would be Group A (180 EUR / hour), Artemis, Living Rooms, Goldentime Group be (120 EUR / hour) and some clubs in Offenbach or elsewhere Group see (80/ hour).

The second approach could be girls wearing colored bracelets. Top girls black, medium yellow and the cheapest green. Let's call it Jamaika scheme.

Any other ideas?

You make some great points and I like your apples analogy and agree fixed price is much better than negotiating — and honestly I have an easier time telling and apple vendor his apples are overpriced than telling a girl her pussy isn't worth €100! LOL.

You are right that having different clubs accomplishes this to some extent. We all know Globe is premium. And it looks like Scandallo on the CDS is headed that way. And perhaps Sharks to some extent as well and thus the consternation.

The wrist bands would be so great. Don't have the coin for the black belt? Take the yellow belt instead. No guessing. No negotiation. Would be great to have a "price" wristband on one arm and a "performance" wrist band on the other arm. You can now decide based off her looks, price, and performance at a glance. Guessing I'm just dreaming but that sounds perfect.

[Sirioja]

All perfectly valid points and well made. It is clear that you don't mind paying more (e. G. Globe) but you want clarity. A fixed price which is known, so that the girls don't barter and the awkward debate about money (which can kill the mood) is unnecessary. And I cannot argue about that. What is clear then is that the larger clubs should follow the rules of the smaller clubs and insist on fixed prices. I suppose they must worry then that girls might retaliate by maybe leaving the club and reporting it to the police that the club is really employing girls as it can control their price. Which it could not do if the girls were truly independent. But this doesn't seem to stop some clubs enforcing prices. All a bit of a mess. I have to say that the service I have had in Sharks and Oase over the years has been consistently good and on par with UK, Spain, Dubai. But it is dreaming to expect all men to follow one code. That very same problem is causing my favourite club in Malaga (New Scandalos) to become out of range for a lot of guys. Previously it was 160/ hour plus 10 e for sheets for the room. The clientele was from all over Europe and some US. Suddenly in the past year there is a huge influx of mainly very rich Moroccan guys (no problem with that per se) but they turn up in Ferraris etc and the prices jumped to 250/ hour plus 30 for sheets. I discussed with the (nice) management that this is killing the club for longstanding customers. Answer. Sorry but things change and now these prices are nothing to the new breed of clientele so why would we reduce? Charming. So your points are valid as there must be some risk of that being repeated in some clubs in Germany. I hope not.

I don't agree to pay Globe rate for now average looks even Zurich is expensive. I prefer to pay 100/60 but can pay 150 for high level in bed very beautiful in Germany rather than 260/60 for porn dolls average looks at Globe. Anywhere, Vanquish will always worth more expensive than Prius for me, when I don t care about club, but only girl with who I have pleasure.

[Maxime]

Of course it is ok to pay more for a Mercedes then for a Dacia (is it coincidence it is from Romania? &#128526, and with material goods it is also ok to do some negotation, both on the Merc as on the Dacia!

However, FKK tries to sell us an physical / emotional illusion, and negotiation of a price is not part of that illusion (it even takes it away, at least for me). The fact that you sit next to a beautiful girl, kiss her, go to have sex, and only AFTER all of that, you pay her (the standard, non-negotiated price), is much better for the illusion then first hassling about price (or even worse: pay in advance), etc.

Some DFK pre-sales in the bar is certainly also part of that illusion (happens rarely anymore in the tourist clubs, happily still done in the real service clubs). In some clubs (Babylon, Bernds, etc), you did NOT pay the girls directly, but at the end of the day to the club, so no direct financial transaction between you and the girls, that made the illusion even stronger! Pity that is not possibly anymore (because of legal reasons).

A system where girls wear colored armwrests, with indicates the included standard service (DFK, BBBJ, etc) and the price level, would be a good idea. Then you can sit next to a girl with the right color for you and go for it! Especially if the girls with lower colored service try to improve (to earn more) or leave!

[Mathias037]

It's like clockwork that the price debate will come up every few weeks it seems. If we put aside for a second what the supposed "right" price is, why do people continuously argue that there should be one fixed price for all girls the top and the bottom all priced the same?

You addressed a very essence of German, or Central European mindset. Of course, we accept the fact that fancier things cost more than less fancy. But that does not prevent us from hating price discussions, bargaining, haggling. When we are buying apples on the market, we want a clear price tag. We don't want to live in the society where everything, from said apples to logging prices, to whatever else depends on our negotiating skills. Of course, there are better and word apples, but then put one in the first basked and others in the other one. And mark the first one 5 EUR per kilo and the second one 2 EUR per kilo, does not matter, but we want to know how much is it.

Now consider a FKK sauna club as a place of relaxation, pure enjoy and carelessness. One of the first things we don't want in such a place is to negotiate for a price. The best times in our clubs was in early 2000, when Polish girls mostly prevailed. Then Romanians came, and the fixed price structure started to break down. Nov, after Covid, it is even worse.

So, how do you think to make your system work? One solution could be to have more categories of clubs, which is in fact already in place. So Sharks, Oase and Palace would be Group A (180 EUR / hour), Artemis, Living Rooms, Goldentime Group be (120 EUR / hour) and some clubs in Offenbach or elsewhere Group see (80/ hour).

The second approach could be girls wearing colored bracelets. Top girls black, medium yellow and the cheapest green. Let's call it Jamaika scheme.

Any other ideas?

[Mursenary]

It's like clockwork that the price debate will come up every few weeks it seems. If we put aside for a second what the supposed "right" price is, why do people continuously argue that there should be one fixed price for all girls the top and the bottom all priced the same?

Because that has been the FKK model for decades, price transparency and at a bargain, very German.

Resisting the change, a 150% to 200% change, especially those being touted by foreigners in another man's land would be perfectly expected and warranted.

[Steve 9696]

It's like clockwork that the price debate will come up every few weeks it seems. If we put aside for a second what the supposed "right" price is, why do people continuously argue that there should be one fixed price for all girls — the top and the bottom — all priced the same?

We surely don't argue this in other markets. Luxury goods command a premium and common goods a lesser price. Would we really argue that a luxury Mercedes should be priced the same as a common Volkswagen? Sure it would be nice. And much nicer for those that can't afford a nice Mercedes normally, than for those that can. But it makes no sense. Everyone would buy the Mercedes leading to a shortage (or they would go sell in markets willing to pay a premium) and poor Volkswagen would never sell any cars. With a price difference both will sell cars and everyone at least gets something that fits their budget. (And sure the Volkswagen owners will be envious. Welcome to the world!

I guess I am a capitalist at heart and have the funds to buy the Mercedes (though I don't own one) but the above makes sense to me. Where is the logic flaw when applied to FKK.

[Maxime]

All perfectly valid points and well made. It is clear that you don't mind paying more (e. G. Globe) but you want clarity. A fixed price which is known, so that the girls don't barter and the awkward debate about money (which can kill the mood) is unnecessary.

Indeed, that is my main concern: it kills the mood enormously to have a debate about money with the girl you just fucked (or worse: are about to fuck).

In the end, it is a market of supply and demand, so if in Hessen a correct price is Euro 100/30 or 150/60, ok, but make it a rule then, and no more discussion.

Want to go to Spain also to visit a club, is it still worthwihle (giving looks and service of the girls)? Better then Germany and even CH or on par or worse?