Living in Thailand

[GoodEnough]

Hi,

There is so much bullshit frankly written about Thailand in the media, be it Thai or foreign.

The only people that know what's going on are the Privy Council, think of them as Thailand's star chamber, illuminati, or whatever, it's not a conspiracy theory it is a political fact.

They are the true power behind EVERYTHING (read between the lines here guys, certain things cannot be spoken of here).

Even they don't know the future but they are currently jockeying for the ultimate position.

If you want to know more, then forget BBC, CNN, RT, and all the other MSM that kowtow to the junta and go to:

Newmandala dot org.

This is the closest a monger will ever get to what goes on behind closed doors here, and it would behoove all of you to at least understand the very hidden truth about this place.

Good luck to us all, we'll likely need it!

Thanks very much for the tip. As the possibility of growing anti-Western / anti-US sentiment grows ever stronger here in the Philippines, where I've been for 14 years, I've been thinking of a move there, even a temporary move. Evidently life for expats in Thailand is as tentative and uncertain as it is here, or am I reading too much into your post?

GE.

[Oliver Kitsoff]

Hi,

There is so much bullshit frankly written about Thailand in the media, be it Thai or foreign.

The only people that know what's going on are the Privy Council, think of them as Thailand's star chamber, illuminati, or whatever, it's not a conspiracy theory it is a political fact.

They are the true power behind EVERYTHING (read between the lines here guys, certain things cannot be spoken of here).

Even they don't know the future but they are currently jockeying for the ultimate position.

If you want to know more, then forget BBC, CNN, RT, and all the other MSM that kowtow to the junta and go to:

Newmandala dot org www.newmandala.org if you are in Thailand and don't use a VPN (not Hola if you value your freedom!) then you most certainly will be blocked from this site.

This is a think tank run out of the very capable ANU Asian Studies faculty in Canberra, Australia.
It is the closest a monger will ever get to what goes on behind closed doors here,
and it would behoove all of you to at least understand the very hidden truth about this place.

Good luck to us all, we'll likely need it!

[Mr Enternational]

Why do you say Phuket is boring and Jomtien is not? Because of proximity to Bangkok? Guess I'm not much for the big city type stuff but I would like to visit Chiang Mai sometime as I've heard good things about it.

Because Jomtien is connected to Pattaya; Phuket ain't connected to shit. I was there 5 years ago for scuba diving and have no intentions on going back. I have been to CM twice for tourist stuff and no plans to go back there either. You can land up in prison for talking about royalty, so it is best not even to discuss it. And leave political discussions to the Thais. Just go lay low and enjoy the place for what it is worth.

[LuvDaPuss]

Saw the news about the trouble there. I still want to go ahead as planned and expect to be there before the end of September. Who knows, maybe the rent will be cheaper. Will find out soon enough. Pity the fools making all the trouble when the cops get a hold of them. When they get done there won't be much left.

Got the go ahead from social security yesterday so that should all go into my account starting the end of November. That scares me a little bit as I hope they don't screw it up and want me to drop on by for a face to face meeting.

And yeah, my take on things is sure to be out to lunch at this time. Yours was too 3 years ago I'm sure. Why do you say Phuket is boring and Jomtien is not? Because of proximity to Bangkok? Guess I'm not much for the big city type stuff but I would like to visit Chiang Mai sometime as I've heard good things about it.

[Gin And Tonic]

Greetings -.

I finally decided to pull the plug here in the US and retire in the LOS. This just happened last week so things are still a bit up in the air. I have been there 3 times on vacation in the last 15 years so I am familiar with the landscape but certainly not an expert. The last time I was there was 2010 when the red shirt/yellow shirt demonstrations were going on. As with all things Thai there were the most polite and well-behaved demonstrations one could ever imagine. Is it the same sort of thing going on now with the "new constitution" or has it gotten more ugly? As you expats well know, vacationing there and living there are entirely different propositions. My intention is to find a place on Phuket as far away from Patong Beach as feasible. Any thoughtful opinions or insight into the present situation would be much appreciated by this newly retired old monger. . LDP.

Update: 13 bombs and fires the last couple days including at Patong. Could be Reds. Could be southern separatists. Could be friends of kicked out Chinese Muslims.

I made the move 3 years ago. Checked out Phuket but girlfriend at the time didn't want to live there. In retrospect I'm glad I didn't move there. Would have gotten bored to quick.

I decided to settle in Jomtien Beach. Cheaper than the higher end resort towns and easy for me to live a western lifestyle. Unlimited mongering options a ten minute baht bus ride in Pattaya. Quite at night and always feel safe day or night. 1 hour 45 minutes by bus to the Bangkok sky train system at airport. 122 baht.

[Gin And Tonic]

Thank you Mr. E for the quick post and for the website advice. I used the wrong term when I said "move to Thailand". My intention is to do just what you suggested, go there for at least 6 to 18 months. No furniture or massive amount of belongings will be shipped from California, just me with a back pack and maybe a suitcase in tow. Technically not a "move" but perhaps it could be considered pre-marital sex in advance of what may be a long term relationship. I'm all ears for any more suggestions or more detailed opinions you may have so let them fly.
I am also curious as to what the order of succession looks like with their King in poor health at an advanced age. Granted there has been plenty of political unrest and coups in the past, but he seems to have been the last resort stabilizer. Without him or his image to hold things together in the future, will all still be well? .....LDP.

There is a crown prince. Your opinions are out to lunch. The truth cannot be reported in country.

[LuvDaPuss]

Thank you Mr. E for the quick post and for the website advice. I used the wrong term when I said "move to Thailand". My intention is to do just what you suggested, go there for at least 6 to 18 months. No furniture or massive amount of belongings will be shipped from California, just me with a back pack and maybe a suitcase in tow. Technically not a "move" but perhaps it could be considered pre-marital sex in advance of what may be a long term relationship. I'm all ears for any more suggestions or more detailed opinions you may have so let them fly.
I am also curious as to what the order of succession looks like with their King in poor health at an advanced age. Granted there has been plenty of political unrest and coups in the past, but he seems to have been the last resort stabilizer. Without him or his image to hold things together in the future, will all still be well? .....LDP.

[Mr Enternational]

As with all things Thai there were the most polite and well-behaved

I think you were in the wrong Thailand. Maybe go poke around on ThaiVisa a bit and get up to snuff on the daily news and the how do you do whatever you need to dos. You definitely do not want to base moving on three visits. Go somewhere and get a 6 month lease and then decide if you can stomach the place. I love it, but it is not for everybody. Why do people on motorbikes drive down the street the wrong way?

[LuvDaPuss]

Greetings -.

I finally decided to pull the plug here in the US and retire in the LOS. This just happened last week so things are still a bit up in the air. I have been there 3 times on vacation in the last 15 years so I am familiar with the landscape but certainly not an expert. The last time I was there was 2010 when the red shirt/yellow shirt demonstrations were going on. As with all things Thai there were the most polite and well-behaved demonstrations one could ever imagine. Is it the same sort of thing going on now with the "new constitution" or has it gotten more ugly? As you expats well know, vacationing there and living there are entirely different propositions. My intention is to find a place on Phuket as far away from Patong Beach as feasible. Any thoughtful opinions or insight into the present situation would be much appreciated by this newly retired old monger. . LDP.

[Breadman]

Another thing to consider is what might happen if the building has an issue like bedbugs, mold infestation or something of that nature. Something where it might just be easier to move to another location. I'm also of the opinion of renting something on the cheaper side and possibly keeping two places in different cities or being able to travel elsewhere for months at a time without a place being a drain on my finances. I could see myself living in Thailand 9 months out of the year but taking sidetrips to Europe during the summer months.

[Banana Boi]

My first time reading this thread and have reviewed back to 2011. Thanks to everything for the information and some things to consider.

I would not invest an amount in ex-pat real estate that I could not walk away from comfortably. (Risk aversion).

Best advice. Although I am contemplating on purchasing a cheap place I have said to myself it will have to be so cheap that it wouldn't hurt me if I lost the entire investment.

Then there is the sick grandmother emergency, the sick grandfather emergency, the sick mother emergency, the sick father emergency, the sick baby emergency, the jailed brother emergency, the birthday emergency, the mother's birthday emergency, the father's birthday emergency, the need a new smartphone emergency, the need more phone "up" emergency, the new clothes emergency, the new shoes emergency, etc. Some of which will occur on a nearly monthly basis and will blow that 15,000 baht girl budget out of the water rather quickly.

This was my favorite thing I read.

[Mr Happy Feet]

I appreciate the information and value the discussion with you, TellAll and AsianRain. I will keep up the diligent research. The reminder about the Monarch and the Junta is important. I keep putting those issues aside because they are out of my control but they could be HUGE and unpredictable.

On a personal note, even though I have a great job in Japan, each morning it gets harder to get up and go to work, LOL.

Stay happy in the LOS.

MHF

[Sunlover2]

Hey MHF,

I think a lot of us have thought about your situation time and again, and I have done similar financial value calculations. Congratulations for being on the cusp! Some random thoughts:

I would not invest an amount in ex-pat real estate that I could not walk away from comfortably. (Risk aversion).

I would not expect a robust or liquid real estate market when / if / should you decide / be forced to sell. (Murphy's Law).

Renting is cheap, and time is on your side. Once you are on the ground full time there could be even better opportunities and entry points on which to pounce on in the future.

I would like to know the area quite well before investing significant capital. That would mean living anywhere full-time for a while.

Your scenario of 4. 5 M bath (buy) vs 20,000 in monthly rent is 5. 3%, which is about the average asking ratio in my research.

I would in any case wait for the Monarchy process to play itself out. It is inevitable and too significant an event to be ignored. (Risk aversion).

The biggest variable in my buy / rent calculus is how much the property would appreciate (buying) vs how much the 'pile of money' you will have remaining (renting) would earn over time. How would you invest the pile? The currently fixed interest at 1% or 2%, or in stock equities which historically (in the US) have returned more than 8% on average, or a balanced fashion which could expected to yield 5% or so.

SL.

[TellAll]

Like most of you readers, I have bought and sold houses in my home country. However, as I make final preparations for my transition to retirement in Hua Hin this Spring I find myself undecided. Initially, I was only considering renting. I learned that renting long-term and paying in advance provides good bargaining and there truly is a glut of empty places right now. Recently, I did start noticing several sale prices for furnished Condos near the beach and with pools and fitness rooms. Those three items are very important to me. So I did the math. I could either buy the place of my dreams for about 4. 5 M baht or I could rent it for about 20,000 per month. I am 53 years old and hope to stay in Thailand at least 20 years. If I buy the place it will cost me about $140,000 plus the loss of the interest it could earn, plus the cost of maintaining it for 20+ years. So, for ease let's say another $12,000 or a total of $152,000 USD. Now, if I were to rent at 20,000 baht per month for the same 20 years, I would spend 4. 8 million baht or about $150,000 USD. So, dollar-for-dollar it is very, very close for me. Now enter Devil's advocate. Overlooking the resale value in 20-years, If I choose to buy NOW, this month, Sep 2015, the baht to dollar rate is 36 NOT the "32" I always use in my planning calculations. This change amounts to 12 percent-a significant discount. If it continues up to 40 baht that will be 25 percent. A huge discount and more than I could ever hope my savings to earn. So, now I am really torn! I desire the freedom of renting MORE than I desire the pride of ownership, but a 25% discount. I would appreciate any constructive discussions and would love to hear from those that "have been there, done that".

MHF

Just remember a couple things. You may not want to live in the same place or town for 20 years. I have seen many condo complexes go to shit because not enough people in them to pay for proper maintnence. No telling what that place will look like in 5,10 or 20 years.

It is a buyer be warned situation and if you have to leave in a hurry, if you bought, you may be out of big money.

[Asian Rain]

There are a million considerations to buying property, but if you are committed to staying the same location for 20 years, it is hard to lose financially with buying a place. If you are going to buy, you also need to factor in annual maintenance and potentially sinking fund costs. These former is a yearly cost and is generally fixed on a square meter rate. The latter can fluctuate depending upon the condo association and the needs for maintenance. Luckily there are no fixed property taxes in Thailand. You will also probably want to factor in for renovation / major maintenance 2-3 x in a 20 year period. For example, replacing an aircon unit can be a substantial expense. When you are renting, all of these cost elements belong to the landlord.

For THB4. 5 m, that is 225 months of rent at 20,000, which if nothing else changes is about 19 years of rent (without all of the above).

In the last 10 years I have been monitoring condo rental costs in BKK, certain areas have not changed a bit. The cost of rental always fluctuates a bit, but the cost to purchase always seems quite steep. Rather than jump into a place, you might consider to rent a place for a year and really scan the places and market. Right now there is a major glut of stock of 1-2 BR units in most areas and the market is depressed with the military government and bombings keeping away tourists. There is no need to rush to buy tomorrow in my opinion. If you can, rent in the building that you want to purchase and make sure that the maintenance / admin team is good, the developer has done a good job and you don't have surprises like bad neighbors that you can't move away from if you have gotten stuck with a purchase.

You also might try to find a place that is older, get it at a cheap price and renovate to your desire. Often you will find that the more recent builds are tiny boxes with quite premium prices. Going with an older place sometimes allows you to get a generous layout that you can gut and fitout to your liking.

When I purchased a place, I bought an off-the-plan unit and got a sweet unit. I was lucky that the build was only 6 months late and the place paid back my entire investment in just 9 years via rentals. I bought low on a good unit with a good developer and managed to keep the unit rented over 80% of the time with a good rental with sane tenants and reasonable maintenance overhead, so with good luck it is possible to make the maths work out depending upon what you want to do. Good luck, AR.

Like most of you readers, I have bought and sold houses in my home country. However, as I make final preparations for my transition to retirement in Hua Hin this Spring I find myself undecided. Initially, I was only considering renting. I learned that renting long-term and paying in advance provides good bargaining and there truly is a glut of empty places right now. Recently, I did start noticing several sale prices for furnished Condos near the beach and with pools and fitness rooms. Those three items are very important to me. So I did the math. I could either buy the place of my dreams for about 4. 5 M baht or I could rent it for about 20,000 per month. I am 53 years old and hope to stay in Thailand at least 20 years. If I buy the place it will cost me about $140,000 plus the loss of the interest it could earn, plus the cost of maintaining it for 20+ years. So, for ease let's say another $12,000 or a total of $152,000 USD. Now, if I were to rent at 20,000 baht per month for the same 20 years, I would spend 4. 8 million baht or about $150,000 USD. So, dollar-for-dollar it is very, very close for me. Now enter Devil's advocate. Overlooking the resale value in 20-years, If I choose to buy NOW, this month, Sep 2015, the baht to dollar rate is 36 NOT the "32" I always use in my planning calculations. This change amounts to 12 percent-a significant discount. If it continues up to 40 baht that will be 25 percent. A huge discount and more than I could ever hope my savings to earn. So, now I am really torn! I desire the freedom of renting MORE than I desire the pride of ownership, but a 25% discount. I would appreciate any constructive discussions and would love to hear from those that "have been there, done that".

MHF