Russian Women - Opinions and Advice

[YummyPL]

Im going to ask everyone about a situation and I would appreciate feedback from people that have experience here.

I now have what I consider a real girlfriend in Moscow. I call her Ariel as her name is unusual and I dont want anyone connecting this report with her. So much so that I am not really exploring options for new girls and am doing minimal work to maintain old girls. So the last two times I was Moscow (in May and this past weekend) my girlfriend stayed with me in my apartment for the whole trip (8 nights and 2 nights, respectively). On both trips, we invited her friend Ksusha to stay with us for the night on one of the nights and went out to a activity called Клаустрофобия before returning to the apartment. For my taste, except being tally than I like, Ksusha is a knockout. I love her look.Fantastic body and lovely face. For my personal taste, she is a solid 8.

When we were out together, and when we were at the apartment together before sleeping, Ksusha was friendly, a little flirty, and very nice. She smiled a lot and seemed to be enjoying herself. There was alittle sexual talk but it was just talk and there was zero physical contact of sexual or even flirty nature during either evenings (she didnt put her hand on my knee or touch my arm while talking or any of that standard flirty stuff. We sat next to each other a couple of times so there was contact then). So that was our interaction.

Now a note about me. I personally have 2 strong fetishes, with an additional ancillary fetish that goes along with one of the others. My first fetish is a girls tummy. I love a bare tummy and low rise jeans and a cropped shirt is about as sexy as anything can be to me if the girl has a thin, flat tummy. My other fetish is panties with the ancillary fetish of a girl wearing MY tshirt and her panties. Although I have never talked about them explicitly, Ariel has to be very aware of both of these fetishes. I have given her a dozen pairs of panties and I pay a LOT of attention to her tummy especially when she is wearing clothes. Ariel is very smart so I cant imagine she has not noted this.

Now I find it hard to believe that Ariel coordinated Ksushas wardrobe, but both times Ksusha wore something that is exactly my taste. She wore low rise jeans and a top that basically exposed her exquisite tummy the entire time we were out together. If she were showing cleavage, or had a short skirt on, I would have easily been able to enjoy it without having problems with staring or anything, but her exposed tummy was very difficult for me to ignore. Despite my arousal, I managed to contain my composure most of the time we were out.

Back in May Ksusha arrived at the apartment at around 22:00 and we sat around a table playing a board game until about 00:30 when we went to get food then went to the Клаустрофобия activity. We got back to the apartment about 04:00 and got ready for bed. Despite Ksusha already wearing a tank-top that I thing should have been fine for sleeping, Asya asked if I had a tshirt for her. OF COURSEI had a tshirt she could wear. The tshirt I chose for her was my Sublime tshirt which is old and very thin. I handed Ksusha the shirt and she went off to her bedroom not to be seen again (the apartment has a small second bedroom I had prepared for her). Ariel and I went off to our room which was right next door. When we got in the room we practically ripped off our clothes and started having sex. Ariel was her normal very vocal self. I can only think that Ksusha heard everything of our hour+ session.

Ariel and I woke up around noon and after coffee, she went to take a shower. Moments after she closed the bathroom door, Ksusha appeared in, guess what, my tshirt and no pants. I assumed she was wearing panties but the tshirt was long enough that it covered them. Ksushas legs looked great, and the tshirt was showing off her body very nicely.

I asked Ksusha if she wanted coffee, she said yess, and she came in the room to talk to me. I was wearing a tshirt and jeans so I was fully covered. We sat on the couch, and instead of sitting very lady like, she sat indian style on the couch facing me which gave me an excellent view of her braless breasts in my thin tshirt and also gave me an excellent view of the crtch of her very skimpy panties. She also shifted several times and gave me better views. She stood up and walked around and gave me a great view of her ass. I was in voyeur heaven, but I maintained my composure and did not give any overt indication that she was doing anything to me.

When the shower stopped (it was a long shower), Ksusha disappeared and apparently went into the bathroom, because soon after that Ariel came out and I heard the shower running again. Ariel was just wearing a towel and we fooled around some until the shower stooped and then Ariel went to get dressed. Not long both girls came out fully dressed and soon after they left because Ariel had to go to work. That is the end of Ksusha part 1.

The next day Ariel and I were talking. We had been planning a trip to Bali together. I was showing her pictures of the place we were staying and it was big and had 5+ beds. I was thinking that it would be fun to have sex all over this place, but Ariel came up with the idea of inviting Ksusha. I wasnt sure about it, but I was open to it. Ariel asked how much it would be for Ksusha. I told her that I would pay for everything for food, accommodations, and entertainment, and that Ksusha would only need to get her airline ticket and could get whatever she wanted with that. Ariel thought that was great. So with this, it is clear to me that Ariel is comfortable with Ksusha and me, but based on what had happened with Ksusha, I had zero clear indication whether anything sexual would occur. I thought the only thing I could count on for sure was that there would be friendly eye-candy running around.

In any case, cutting out the details, Ksusha did not end up going to Bali with us, but when I returned to Moscow dfor the weekend, we again invited Ksusha over for the night to go to do Клаустрофобия. Ksusha said she would arrive at the apartment around 21:00. Ariel said it was more likely she would show up around 23:00 so wanted to watch a movie in bed while we waited for her. So Ariel and I are in bed, Im in my tshirt and boxers and Ariel in my tshirt and her panties watching the movie on the TV and DVD player in the room (Butterfly Effect in English with Russian subs). Ariel seemed shocked that around 21:00 (30 minutes into the movie), Ksusha sernt a SMS saying she had arrived.

So Ariel ran downstairs (1 flight, the owner had not given us the door code) without putting pants on and brought Ksusha upstairs. They talked some in Russian (I understood almost none of it) but Ariel said she wanted to finish the movie. So Ksusha took off her pants and joined us in bed. I was on one side of the bed and Ariel was in the middle with Ksusha on the far side. For most of the movie Ariel was laying against my chest and I had my arms around her with the occasional sexual touching. There was almost no contact with Ksusha during the movie, but it was nice knowing she was in bed next to us.

So when we get out of bed, Ksusha puts her pants on immediately, and I followed her lead and put my jeans on but Ariel stayed in my tshirt and her panties.

We hung around the apartment some, ate food, did some Russian language practice (mostly swear words and slang), and then at 01:30 we went to our activity. We got back home around 04:00. This was a different apartment from last time and theer was no second bedroom. Ksusha was set to sleep on the couch. Again Ariel asked if Ksusha could use one of my tshirts and I said of course. I actually had the same Sublime tshirt she wore the previous month, and brought that to her. She asked me if that was going to be her tshirt, and I said something like no, I just liked it better after she wore it. She gave me the biggest smile.

In any case, she still had her jeans on but instead of waiting or going into the other room, she turned her back to me and Ariel, she took her own shirt and bra off, and put my tshirt on. She then took her jeans off. It seemed very erotic to me. Only after she changed clothes did she walk into the bathroom. She could have easily changed clothes in there. While Ksusha was in the bathroom, Ariel and I headed off to the bedroom, and again had a very nice session of very vocal sex.

Around 11:00 in the morning Ariel and I went to the living room and Ksusha was still asleep. We woke her up by Ariel pouncing on her. I was wearing my tshirt and boxers and Ariel was wearing my tshirt and some very skimpy and VERY sheer panties I had given her. Ksusha woke up and stayed in my Tshirt and her (also quite skimpy) panties. We had coffee and Ariel made us breakfast. Both girls looked great but neither was being particularly flirty with me. They had a converstation in Russian that I hardly understood any of but after the conversation Ksusha went to the bathroom. Ariel told me she had an appointment at 14:00 and so had to go soon for a couple of hours and that Ksusha was going for a massage so would leave at the same time. At that point Ksusha returned from the bathroom wearing only her own tanktop which was white and tight fitting and no bra, and her panties. Her body was devine and what she wore left very little to the imagination.

I am observing the situation sitting on the couch drinking coffee. The girls talked more in Russian and then Ksusha started doing some yoga-like exercises. Ariel then left the room to take a shower. So I am sitting on the couch and Ksusha is talking to me while wearing very little and bending and stretching and spreading her legs and showing me pretty much everything she could without actually getting naked. I am very casual about it all and dont get off the couch and dont comment on her activities. I am sitting there in my boxers with an absolute raging hard-on and I cant get rid of it, and I cant stand up. It was a mix of heaven and torture. Not long later Ariel completed her shower and moments later came back in the room wearing just a towel. Ksusha does not stiop her exercising and Ariel joins her for a few stretches and bends exposing her bare ass and pussy repeatedly. Afeter a while she comes over and sits on my lap and starts to laught when she finds my state of arousal. She says a few things to Ksusha and then just sits on my lap with her arms around me with a big smile while Ksusha finishes up her exercises.

When Ksusha is done, she goes off to the shower and Ariel and I play a bit until the shower stops. After her shower, Ksusha comes back in the room briefly wrapped in just a towel and then goes back to the bathroom. Ariel and I go to get dressed (I said I would shower when they left) and when we went back out Ksusha was already dressed. Not long after, both girls left. A couple of hours later, Ariel returned to me and we went immediately to the bedroom for some sex. Afterward we just rested in each others arms for a couple of hours until it was time for me to leave. We walked to a restaurant, had a late lunch, then she drove me to the aeroexpress and I was gone.

In my three previous experiences with Russian girls inviting over their girlfriends, it was obvious to me that it was both expected and invited for me to be both verbally and physically flirtatyious with the girlfriends. All the other relationships I had were super casual and I dont think the girls really thought of me as their serious boyfriend. Diana invited over Katya and later Katya and I hooked up. Katya invited over Nadya, we had significant physical flirting and later Nadya and I hooked up. Kori invited over Sveta and overtly suggested I start seeing Sveta and basically invited me to be physically flirtatious with her.

In this case, Ariel and I have become more serious. Ariel says she loves me and I believe she at least thinks she does. I am also pretty smitten with Ariel and have strong feelings for her. There is certainly no overt suggestion I should be physically flirtatious with Ksusha and certainly no invitation to start seeing her. As far as I know, Ksusha and Ariel do not have a history of sharing sexual activity with a man (3-way). I also note that Ksushas most provocative actions are when Ariel is not in the room.

So here is my question. I see 3 different possibilities here.

1. This is just a normal and natural way for these Russian girls to act. Getting practically naked in front of a best friends boyfriend the night you meet is cool, and they dont see it as provocative or problematic at all.

2. Ksusha (or both girls) is testing me to see if I will make a move on her so that she will know if her best friends boyfriend is only out for sex or is true to her and as a way to protect Ariel.

3. Ksusha is actually interested in me in some form.

I am curious to know based on what I have said here what you guys think is going on. And please dont just say Id fuck Ksusha.

For those interested in a reference I included a picture of Ksusha.

[SanGaetano]

Fortunately for me, their gang was still waiting downstairs, thinking that the pepper spray would be enough to subdue me.

This is very strange. One person can be that stupid to think she or he can knock a adult guy down with a shot of spray, ok. But this was a GROUP of people as you describe, somebody at last one there must have known that it is impossible for a female or even two to subdue a normal built (doesn't have to be strong) man with just a spray in the hand. This is at least stupid in a collective. Even more interesting is the fact that the same event happened a while ago in Kiew with another post. Something is weird here.

[Gergiev]

Sorry to disagree with you BB, but it WAS a rookie mistake. Unless of course, President Turchinov was deliberately trying to provoke a civil war and invite Russia to come and protect the linguistic freedom of Russian speakers. By attempting to pass this law, he drove wedge between hardline Ukrainian nationalists in the West and the Russian speakers in the East. This issue is a tinderbox that has been sitting near an open flame for many years. IMHO if he was the least bit interested in national unity, he would have steered clear of this contentious issue.

I AGREE with you that a very large percentage of Western Ukrainians never want to hear the Russian language spoken in Ukraine again. That is quite clear. But as a national leader, Turchinov fucked this one up. Mind you, he may not have had a choice in the matter and was forced to support a wave of anti-Russian sentiment. Who knows? But I am afraid that the situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Jake, I agree with the overall point you're making but I think you've slightly misread the detail. It was the new government that passed that law but Turchinov used his presidential powers to veto it, literally a day or two later.

I think BB's difference with me is a language issue in the sense that he thinks that I mean that they just made this decision erroneously rather than deliberately...

[Gergiev]

I am only being a little sarcastic. I just assumed that the native Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine would, if given the chance, gravitate towards Russia and vote for separation from the rest of Ukraine and perhaps union with Russia. I think what Gergiev is saying is that many native Russian speakers who were born and live now in Ukraine would actually FAVOR staying as part of Ukraine. I find this a little surprising.

That's about the gist of it, Jake. Don't forget that language is not always the badge of ethnicity, in the same sense that in the north of Ireland both nationalities there speak English but, of course, the majority of one side consider themselves Irish and want to break the union with England.

Likewise in Ukraine, approx half of the Russian speaking population consider themselves Ukrainian and also give their allegiance to the Kiev Patriarchy of the Orthodox Church, while the Russians cleave to the Moscow Patriarchy, so closely aligned now with Putin. If you recall last month, then you had both Patriarchs preaching on the opposing sides of the Crimean developments.

Also, don't forget that in the original 1991 referendum, over 90% voted for Ukrainian independence and not just along crude 'language lines'...

[Jake993]

No it was not an error. People in Western Ukraine have been demanding that Ukrainian be the only official language for years. They slogans are "One language, one nation, one country" and "hang the Russians". See here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go4Wwjuzm-s

Sorry to disagree with you BB, but it WAS a rookie mistake. Unless of course, President Turchinov was deliberately trying to provoke a civil war and invite Russia to come and protect the linguistic freedom of Russian speakers. By attempting to pass this law, he drove wedge between hardline Ukrainian nationalists in the West and the Russian speakers in the East. This issue is a tinderbox that has been sitting near an open flame for many years. IMHO if he was the least bit interested in national unity, he would have steered clear of this contentious issue.

I AGREE with you that a very large percentage of Western Ukrainians never want to hear the Russian language spoken in Ukraine again. That is quite clear. But as a national leader, Turchinov fucked this one up. Mind you, he may not have had a choice in the matter and was forced to support a wave of anti-Russian sentiment. Who knows? But I am afraid that the situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

[Jake993]

Jake, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. Apparently several reports and formal polls show that a (small) majority of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine see themselves as Ukrainian and support a unified Ukraine. This is not to say they don't prefer ties with Russia over ties with Europe, just that they support the sovereignty of Ukraine.

Of course there are many conflicting reports.

Yummy,

I am only being a little sarcastic. I just assumed that the native Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine would, if given the chance, gravitate towards Russia and vote for separation from the rest of Ukraine and perhaps union with Russia. I think what Gergiev is saying is that many native Russian speakers who were born and live now in Ukraine would actually FAVOR staying as part of Ukraine. I find this a little surprising.

[Bimbo Boy]

Strav, it was a dreadful and indeed almost juvenile error. At least acting president Turchinov had the good sense to veto that language law a day or two later.

No it was not an error. People in Western Ukraine have been demanding that Ukrainian be the only official language for years. They slogans are "One language, one nation, one country" and "hang the Russians". See here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go4Wwjuzm-s

[YummyPL]

Wow. This is an issue that seems to be getting less and less clear with each passing day.

Are telling us that just because a person who lives and the eastern part of Ukraine speaks Russian as his (or her) primary language, it does not necessarily mean that he considers himself Russian?

Jake, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. Apparently several reports and formal polls show that a (small) majority of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine see themselves as Ukrainian and support a unified Ukraine. This is not to say they don't prefer ties with Russia over ties with Europe, just that they support the sovereignty of Ukraine.

Of course there are many conflicting reports.

[Jake993]

Strav, it was a dreadful and indeed almost juvenile error. At least acting president Turchinov had the good sense to veto that language law a day or two later.

The Russian language in the east of Ukraine is no guarantee of ethnicity as approximately 50% of those speakers would consider themselves Ukrainian.

Wow. This is an issue that seems to be getting less and less clear with each passing day.

Are telling us that just because a person who lives and the eastern part of Ukraine speaks Russian as his (or her) primary language, it does not necessarily mean that he considers himself Russian?

[Gergiev]

It was a major mistake for the new government in Kiev to allow itself to be coerced by the nationalists into the position of declaring Ukrainian the only official language. Yetsenyuk has taken every opportunity to make it clear that anyone in the Ukraine my speak any language they want. Apparently his wife is Russian and they speak Russian at home.

It's fascinating how elemental language can be to a person's identity. If cooler heads will prevail and the government in Kiev will allow Russians to live like Russians, then that may be the salvation of the Ukraine.

Strav, it was a dreadful and indeed almost juvenile error. At least acting president Turchinov had the good sense to veto that language law a day or two later.

The Russian language in the east of Ukraine is no guarantee of ethnicity as approximately 50% of those speakers would consider themselves Ukrainian.

[SanGaetano]

Monger fends off attempted murder / robbery perpetrated by vicious bloodthirsty bandit tramps and their gang of hooligans!

Wow, that was a hell of a dangerous situation. You are lucky that they just have a spray with them. There are some soft weapons (or or white weapons or whatever is called) which uses an kind of gas to blind the opponent for few moments, similar to Pepper but kind of more effective.

I am also a foreigner living in Russia, but thanks god I never caught myself in a similar situation. Of course I am cautious and use my common sense, but we can never know what will come out of a devushka, so basically I was lucky until now.

So what happened afterwards, did you report them to the cops? Anyways be careful, some people doesn't accept defeat for long time and someday seek vendetta.

San

[Gentleman Travel]

It's fascinating how elemental language can be to a person's identity. If cooler heads will prevail and the government in Kiev will allow Russians to live like Russians, then that may be the salvation of the Ukraine.

I agree. We live with this in Canada. Whenever the government of Quebec is in trouble they pick a fight over English language rights (I. E. Suppressing them). We (the Rest Of Canada) could put up with all the rest of their bullshit (socialism, nationalism, corruption, incompetence, economic suicide) but creating phony linguistic wars really gets us angry!

This also ties into something else Jake (I think) was saying. It used to be that everyone seemed to speak Russian in Ukraine, it wasn't until my fourth visit in 2010 that I came across a situation where Ukrainian was dominant. And now I find that my feeble attempts to speak Russian are not necessarily welcome,"Why don't you speak Ukrainian?" But who wants to invest time and energy into learning a niche language like that?

I understand the reaction of Ukrainians who feel their language and culture were suppressed for so many years, and their desire to be Ukrainian, not wannabe-Russians. But seriously, if a large fraction of your population already speaks (some) Russian, don't turn your back on that. Again, to go back to the Canadian example, it is like the government making sure that French in the dominant (or exclusive) language in business and school. Sure it makes you feel good in a nationalistic sense, but all those people would be a lot better off in life if they learned more English. Of course, all the elites speak English, but are happy to keep the peasants prisoners of their language.

[Stravinsky]

Not sure that referendum will offer the option of the eastern provinces transferring to Russia; greater autonomy is the more likely question, I would say.

G,

I agree. Vladimir Vladimirovich was uncharacteristically "warm and fuzzy" during his telethon last week. He is obviously feeling very full of himself and can afford to be generous.

It was a major mistake for the new government in Kiev to allow itself to be coerced by the nationalists into the position of declaring Ukrainian the only official language. Yetsenyuk has taken every opportunity to make it clear that anyone in the Ukraine my speak any language they want. Apparently his wife is Russian and they speak Russian at home.

It's fascinating how elemental language can be to a person's identity. If cooler heads will prevail and the government in Kiev will allow Russians to live like Russians, then that may be the salvation of the Ukraine.

[Gergiev]

I have to agree with Strav on tis one.

Yes, another excellent contribution from Comrade Strav.

Not sure that referendum will offer the option of the eastern provinces transferring to Russia; greater autonomy is the more likely question, I would say.

[Jake993]

The situation in Ukraine is truly tragic, but I have to confess, all this hand-wringing over Transdnistria is simply laughable.

I have to agree with Strav on tis one. Transdnistra to Putin is like your mother's half brother who shows up unannounced for Thanksgiving every three years. You don't dare invite him because he's an embarrassment, but if you tell him to "fuck off" you look like an asshole front of the rest of your family. So you shrug your shoulders, set another plate and welcome him in hoping that he just go away.

My Moscow land-lady (a very sophisticated entrepreneur) came by yesterday so that I could re-sign the lease on my flat. Yeeees, I am going to stay in Moscow for another year (sigh) and she could not HELP but ask me what I thought of what's happening in Ukraine. I gave the usual perfunctory "tap dance" around the subject and while she was initialing all 45 pages of the agreement, I asked her what SHE thought. She put down her pen, gave me a stern look and said,

"I'm glad that I Crimea is part of Russia again. As a child I spent every summer in Crimea and I have not been back since 1991. This summer I will go back to Crimea and I hope to buy a flat there before prices get too high. But I think that if one Russian soldier sets foot in "Ukraine proper", Mr Putin will be making a serious mistake that will threaten all that we have struggled to achieve over the past 20 years".

This woman is not part of the Russian elite. She is part of the small (but growing) middle class that were well educated during Soviet times. They work hard, stay out of politics, pay their taxes and try to make a better life. She and her husband are nice people, both fluent in English who take calculated business risks and understand how Western business works. Just when I think Russia can't get any more fucked up, I think of my land-lady and realize that maybe there's hope for Russia yet.