German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Pessimist]

I was with a pretty 21 year old civilian blonde last week. Looks wise, she could compete with the best I ever had in any FKK in my life. We were hot and heavy, made out on the couch for some time and I requested we take a sensual shower together which I enjoy thoroughly. She wasn't too sure because she didn't want to get her hair wet but agreed to please me. Shower was very nice, we made out more in the shower, soaped and washed each other nicely, and then moved to the bedroom. She blew me, then I ate her a little, and I suggested we move to 69. She agreed and positioned her pussy at my mouth and her ass in my nostrils. Boy, even after all that shower and washing, the scent was too strong and not in a pleasant way. I had to hold my breath to continue eating her. After a few minutes I reluctantly called timeout and we moved to other activities. The scent didn't bother me earlier when she was on her back and I ate her, but in 69 it was a bit too much. I love muff diving and her **** was reasonably clean and tasty but all of that came to a premature end due to her anal hygiene issues. Oh well.

Which brings me — one thing I love about FKK girls is that their hygiene is generally very good. Even after getting fucked more times times than I fart in a day, they seem to clean themselves up pretty good. At least to the point where DATY feels pretty clean and rectal scents are not a put off. While I am not a huge fan of eating ass out, with my more regular girls I have partaken that pleasure when in proper mood. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same thing with my civilian girls. Not all of them acquiesce to taking showers at the beginning of sex, some become offended and suspicious and declare haughtily that they are clean if they suspect your motive, and for nearly half of them even pussy is not smelling so nice and clean. Remember, these are not WGs and who have normal daily activities most of the time and I may be fucking them at odd times of the day and it depends on when their last bath might have been; even so, I wish they could be cleaner. Plus, hardly very many girls here use bidet after number two.

Perhaps this is an American girl thing? Almost all of the civilian fucks I experience are based in my native land. I wonder whether this is the same experience you gentlemen out there have felt in your own episodes. My sample size of civilian fucks is not necessarily small and hence I feel like this has been a widespread phenomenon in my experience.

[Bfsie]

But only private persons in Germany pay value-added tax. Companies don't pay these tax.

I know. WGs and mongers pay value-added tax and FKK clubs collect this tax for the government. For example, a monger pays a FKK club 50 euro as his entrance fee. Technically this 50 euro should be 42 euro plus 8 euro value-added tax (42 euro X 19%) and this 8 euro value-added tax has to be given to the Government. I was pointing out that the club turnover in Pksimar69's post included this valued-add tax, which shouldn't be counted when the clubs calculate their profit because they must pay this tax to the government.

[Craiova]

Plus 19% value-added tax of all the WG's and monger's entrance fee and other taxes.

But only private persons in Germany pay value-added tax. Companies don't pay these tax.

[Sirioja]

The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market..

No real competition in FKK land, bad or good casting, many guys are stuck to one club, you see always the same guys at GT, before it was the same at LR, some only go to Sharks. Some only go to cheap sex clubs, some only to AO clubs. Not so many free birds, not many follow girls like me.

[Member #4636]

Plus 19% value-added tax of all the WG's and monger's entrance fee and other taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany

How do you know that? Don't ask me the answer because I don't know it. I didn't say they are not greedy or greedy because I don't know. I just raised the issues which need to be considered when we discuss about whether they are greedy or not.

The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market..

You pay VAT when you give an official invoice or receipt. How many times have you got a receipt from your entry? Now you also know why they accept cash only right?

The turnover I mentioned is based on the income they make on a regular day on average visits from both mongers and girls and also sales from the bar.

Yes I also agree it is a well tested format because it gives good profits to the owners the way it works. But I expect to see either reduced entry for mongers or free entry for girls. Yes this will raise competition and at the end both will win, customers (including girls) and owners.

[Bfsie]

Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 %

Plus 19% value-added tax of all the WG's and monger's entrance fee and other taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany

Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year.

How do you know that? Don't ask me the answer because I don't know it. I didn't say they are not greedy or greedy because I don't know. I just raised the issues which need to be considered when we discuss about whether they are greedy or not.

The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market.

Remember Germany is a free-market country and the business in Germany are subject to intense and constant competition from their competitors. If a business is not competitive in terms of its price, it will quickly be out of business.

[Sirioja]

I've been to both clubs multiple times over the last year and it's not true that Globe girls are on average better looking than Aphro. Probably the contrary. Sure Megan is one exception but not every girl at Globe looks like her! I think it would be harder to make it at Aphro because the standard is higher. I like to go to both. They both offer different experiences. There are girls at Aphro with better bodies than Megan for sure. And some with prettier faces. She has a unique combo but it's one girl out of 100 at Globe. For service level Globe is more guaranteed high level service though as the rules are tighter. At Aphro girls are freer.

Megan is not the prettiest for me at Globe, when she was at Sharks. Some are sexier than her at Globe, but unfortunately for me, my eyes didn't see her level for look at Aphro, but average level of looks for more than 40 girls seen, was low for me, these girls couldn't work at Globe because not pretty enough. My bad experience when I drove 1000 kms on this day. Can't say about level in bed. I'm pretty sure Aphro girls pay not far from 80 on 280 to Aphro.

[Member #4636]

With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:.

Nice input, however I disagree in some things.

First of all except for Artemis as you mentioned I don't think that other clubs cost that much to be built. Furniture and all equipment and decor is cheap.

Regarding 10 % return on investment. Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year. Running expenses (for which I cannily think about payroll cost as the most expensive) are normally much less maybe 50 % of that. So that is around 45-50 % gross profit before taxation. You.

Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 % so there you are what remains in pocket.

[Sebastiane]

Aphro level of looks is lower on average than Globe. Most of Aphro girls can t work at Globe, no Megan, no Joana at Aphro. I think Globe girls pay about 30 from 140 to Globe. Ask Aphro girls how much they pay from 280, they have to pay for our free drinks. Big turn over at Aphro because slow business, too expensive for level of looks, most often quite empty except on few nights. I felt a bit lonely when I was the only guy at 7. 30 pm on a Thursday, more than 40 girls staring, smiling at me, but unfortunately no wow. Girls say they don t like Globe when they can t make good business or when they are fired. Megan told me my advice was excellent, my way to thank her.

I've been to both clubs multiple times over the last year and it's not true that Globe girls are on average better looking than Aphro. Probably the contrary. Sure Megan is one exception but not every girl at Globe looks like her! I think it would be harder to make it at Aphro because the standard is higher. I like to go to both. They both offer different experiences. There are girls at Aphro with better bodies than Megan for sure. And some with prettier faces. She has a unique combo but it's one girl out of 100 at Globe. For service level Globe is more guaranteed high level service though as the rules are tighter. At Aphro girls are freer.

[Akibono]

Nobody here argues over 50 euro. But 50 x X euro. With 100 rooms a year, that is 5000 euro.

Your billionaire may make his income from shoes sold at a price of 51 euro each. Take away 'only 50 euro', and he probably wouldn't even be a millionaire even.

You can believe whatever you want.

[Bfsie]

With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:

1. The owners of FKK clubs invested a lot of money to the clubs. A good size of club can easily cost several million euros. I heard that Artemis costed its owner over 10 millions euro. So every year they need to have profit of certain percentage of investment as investment return. It is not like mom and pop store whose owner would probably be satisfied if he can earn several thousands euro per month. Let's say the owner conservatively wants 10% of investment as profit each year and if the FKK club costed him 5 million euro, so he wants 500K euro (5 millions X 10%) each year as profit. IMO, 10% return on investment is not too greedy (and also see my second point).

2. The establishments like FKK in sex industry is much more vulnerable to be closed down by the government than normal business, due to its nature of business dealing with prostitutes. So the return on FKK investment should be much higher than the return from normal business to cover the risk being shut down prematurely.

3. Current FKK club format is well tested format financially. I am pretty sure that during early stage of FKK club development the owners of FKK clubs already tested various formats including the format of WG's entrance-free you guys discussed about. By the way, don't hope WG's free entrance because, in my opinion, the owners will certainly levy the loss of WG's entrance fee on mongers by asking WGs to pay 50% (or XX%) of WG's session income to them like normal brothels, this will surely raise (possibly double) the session price for mongers and the mongers still have to pay their entrance fee.

[Bfsie]

Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being... Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.

His problem is that he is a [CodeWord910] who is sexually attracted (and addicted) to girls (or boys) under 18, so FKK clubs wouldn't help him, nor the girls below 18 in Europe because the American law in terms of [CodeWord910] states that any American who has sex with a girl or boy under 18 is punishable in USA regardless of which country it happens in. An American better not be a [CodeWord910] because the punishment for such a sex crime is very severe and he might also be killed in the prison by his fellow inmates if he is an ordinary man and usually not well physically protected unlike Epstein. I think Epstein will mostly likely spend the rest of his life in prison if next week the judge denies his release on bail pending his trial.

[Pessimist]

Interesting discussion about girls' entry fee and how that may be impacting service levels. I think many members made some very valid points. I think Optimist said 25 goes to the government as some sort of license fee? Did that amount change / increase over time? I think it is not reasonable to expect that clubs will lower girls' entry fee to zero because they need to reimburse the government for 25, and also they incur real expenses for food, drinks, other amenities in the club — same amount as they incur in the case of male guests. You can argue they are charging men and women too much entry fee, and whether that is a good argument or not, they do have real expenses and the club managements are not in the charity business to be providing free services and food and goodies to all and sundry.

It would be interesting to compare girls' entry fee amounts in a given locale and see whether differences in those amounts lead to any measurable differences in service levels. For instance, if a club charges 75 and another club nearby charges 100, the girls at the former have a lower threshold to cover their costs. Is there any evidence that girls at that club feel less pressured and hence provide better service?

Clubs can always lower the girls' entry fee to gain market share if they think it is an effective ploy. If they lower from 100 to 75, they can in theory attract more girls which in turn attracts more guys over time. Why are they not doing it? Perhaps they do not think it will work as a good business tactic? Or are these clubs run by managements who are so clueless that they do not know what is good for them? For example, you would not expect Sharks to lower its fee because with the way they currently are, they are still presumably making a large amount of money. But you might expect one of the laggard clubs in the Hessen area to at least try it. Oase lowered fee for men through early entry etc, so we know clubs are aware of the interplay between entry fee and volume growth. If they did not try this in the case of WGs yet, they probably know something we don't.

We also know some new clubs in the early days of the club did allow girls to work with very low entry fee. So, clubs have tried this tactic sporadically but not as a ongoing business strategy.

If the real goal of a club is *long term* profit maximization, it should do what it can to achieve its objective. Of course, some clubs may have other motives, especially those managed by questionable owners in which case their objective may not simply be profit maximization but other motives, potentially illegal. We simply do not know, unless you are an insider.

However, what I do know is that the fact that these entry fee structures have been in place for a long time and nothing much is being done to lower them over time, it is unlikely that they will listen to the pleas of a few people here and lower the amount or remove it altogether. That seems like wishful thinking to me.

[Sirioja]

An interesting observation about entrance prices for girls. Its not just in German FKKS too. A number of girls at Aphro have told me they left Globe because the working conditions were too strict and the club took too much of their earnings. I didn't even ask if the girls also have to pay. But I suppose the owners bottom line is to maximise their profits and, for now, there is a steady line of Romanian girls willing to take the place of any girls who don't like it both in Germany and Switzerland and Austria I guess.

Aphro level of looks is lower on average than Globe. Most of Aphro girls can t work at Globe, no Megan, no Joana at Aphro. I think Globe girls pay about 30 from 140 to Globe. Ask Aphro girls how much they pay from 280, they have to pay for our free drinks. Big turn over at Aphro because slow business, too expensive for level of looks, most often quite empty except on few nights. I felt a bit lonely when I was the only guy at 7. 30 pm on a Thursday, more than 40 girls staring, smiling at me, but unfortunately no wow. Girls say they don t like Globe when they can t make good business or when they are fired. Megan told me my advice was excellent, my way to thank her.

[Mr Ho]

I don't know about Atlantis but at World the girls used to pay about 40 if they started early. It meant they were quite relaxed about covering their costs.

40 euro? In Artemis if I remember right, it is 140 euro, but they get to sleep up stairs.