Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Elvis 2008]

Apparently, the USA and UK prevented Russia and Ukraine from a truce. This was no surprise to me at all and expected.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...sia-peace-deal

Europe is going to be praying for global warming this winter. Electricity costs have skyrocketed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/how...***-approaches

One such owner is Geraldine Dolan, who owns the Poppyfields cafe in Athlone, Ireland. And was charged nearly 10,000 (US $10,021) for just over two months of energy usage.

My mum owns a small caf in Leicester. Her electricity bill has just jumped from 10 k ($12 k) a year to 55 k ($64 k) a year. She is working out her options but more than likely she will be forced to close.

And just to show you what genius these politicians are, Russia has shut down the natural gas pipeline supplying natural gas to Europe and instead of getting paid for it is choosing to burn it. That is about $10 million worth of gas a day it is pissing away.

https://mishtalk.com/economics/major...l-gas-pipeline

I remember one time in Driver's Education the instructor said after looking at some gruesome accidents, "Does it really matter whose fault it is in the end?

You look at this mess and how fucking stupid it is and the complete fucking waste of money and lives and have to ask, does it really matter whose fault is this? I cannot believe anybody is for something as fucking stupid as this war.

[Paulie97]

Here's the freedom scores of the Central and Eastern Euro countries mentioned, and there are several others:

Poland (81), Czech Republic (91), Slovakia (90), Estonia (94), Latvia (88) & Ukraine (61). And this is in part due to a number of countries including the US that have supported democracy and freedom on the European continent. But don't expect to find any of this information in Pat Buchanan's columns or on Max Blumenthal's pro-Kremlin blogs, as they have agendas. Pitching agendas is never "serious discussion. " Heck Max told us on 2/26 that the Ukrainian army was "vanquished. " Lolol Check my post history for the twitter link.

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores

[Golfinho]

Idiocy #1:

The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world. The Nazis were worse for Europe, our interests and the world peace than the USSR.

Just to address one of your unending idiocies: Great Britain was hardly the USA's closest ally in the world. Roosevelt was determined to break the British Empire's economic hegemony. It was a major postwar aim of his policy. And in fact it came to pass as a consequence of the War, where now Britain is the USA's poodle, a satellite that thinks it's a sovereign ally.

[Paulie97]

How did USA intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya make democracy flourish in those countries?

The greater Middle East and Eastern Europe are two different worlds. Our primary aims in the former were to combat terrorism, and we hear much less out of Isis and al Qaeda nowadays. What about Poland? Slovakia? The Czech Republic? Latvia? Estonia? To name a few. And Ukraine? That now has a freedom of 61 as opposed to Russia's 19.

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores

https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-ana...-and-examples/

Yes we support democracy in Europe, and especially our allies. We are also glad to assist Ukraine with intelligence and weapons.

[Paulie97]

Idiocy #1:

The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world... Besides, it was the Nazis who declared war on America.

Ironic indeed that someone that claims to want to have a "serious discussion" could overlook such details. He lacks the very basics learned in Middle School. Yea right, let's "negotiate" with Germany while they annex France, carpet bomb Britain, and declare war on the US. Too bad Neville Chamberlain never met Kerzog. He'd have had it all ironed out in a hurry. Wink.

[Paulie97]

Idiocy #1:

The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world. The Nazis were worse for Europe, our interests and the world peace than the USSR. Besides, it was the Nazis who declared war on America. The rest of your "geopolitics" is equally moronic garbage.

Idiocies 2-4:

That's because the glove fits. The problem, though, is not just that you're an anti-Semite (what Kremlin bots aren't) but that you're ignorant. Neither Stalin nor Mao tried to eliminate a whole ethnic group. You're bringing up Rwanda because, like I said, you don't recycle your trash, but it came much later, and yes, we failed to protect them just like we had failed to protect the Jews (CAPITAL FUCKING "J") thanks to fucking isolationists you, Kremlin bots, love so much.

Good answers. For one thing you can't negotiate with committed old school Fascists like Hitler and Mussolini. In their minds the state is pre-eminent and war and conquest are it's highest expression. They are in a constant state of the same as it's so dictated by their ideology. And therein lies the problem with listening to guys like Pat Buchanan, IE. "Hitler didn't want to take over the world! He didn't want to kill all Jews!" But Pat is a journalist, not a historian. History is only used, cherry picked to prop up his political preconceptions. He also obviously never read Mein Kampf.

But yea in these discussions many want to globe trot putting the USA on trial, which of course is a dodge, "appeal to hypocrisy" or the tu-quoque fallacy.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

If we were the worst nation on the earth that doesn't get Russia off the hook in their treatment of Ukraine. But yes we have supported dictators in Latin-America in opposition to worldwide communism, or undemocratic regimes in the Middle East to favor the interests of allies and ours in the matter of energy resources. So what? That's called practicality and diplomacy and still leaves us free to oppose growing Fascist and authoritarian sentiments and actions on our soil and in Europe.

You are also correct in that China is no real ally of Russia. The former will never treat the latter, with their economy about the size of Texas, as an equal. Lip service is all that Russia is getting. Push come to shove China will buddy up to the West as such is in their economic interests.

And Kozerog, we get your anti-Americanism loud and clear, but you are going to be waiting a very long time to see our demise, and doubtfully will even live that long. And certainly aren't going to see it in this Russian invasion of Ukraine debacle / mega-embarrassment. Nonetheless keep waving those pom poms. Lolol.

Slava Ukraini.

[Xpartan]

Idiocy #1:

Not sat it out entirely, but no reason to favor USSR versus Nazi Germany. We could have negotiated with Hitler and thus pitted a weak Germany versus a weak USSR (possibly with independent Ukraine) and thus prevented USSR dominance after WW2.

The Nazis was waging a war against Great Britain, our closest ally in the world. The Nazis were worse for Europe, our interests and the world peace than the USSR. Besides, it was the Nazis who declared war on America. The rest of your "geopolitics" is equally moronic garbage.

Idiocies 2-4:

As for the blessed jews, just as many people died under Stalin and Mao, there was the Rwanda atrocity which is now mostly forgotten, the mostly forgotten Pol Pot atrocity in Cambodia, the on going Yemen catastrophe, etc, etc. But only the poor Jews seem to matter, and only the Jews get exempt from scrutiny about Nazi like concentration camps in Gaza, and about nuclear and biological weapons proliferation, and anyone who questions why the blessed jews are so special is an anti-Semite.

That's because the glove fits. The problem, though, is not just that you're an anti-Semite (what Kremlin bots aren't) but that you're ignorant. Neither Stalin nor Mao tried to eliminate a whole ethnic group. You're bringing up Rwanda because, like I said, you don't recycle your trash, but it came much later, and yes, we failed to protect them just like we had failed to protect the Jews (CAPITAL FUCKING "J") thanks to fucking isolationists you, Kremlin bots, love so much.

Idiocy 5:

And how does bringing Russia and China together help with this? How did USA intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya make democracy flourish in those countries?

Russia and China are not together and never will be. First, the Chinese historically hate Russians (and vice versa BTW), second, they are way too practical to lose our markets, and third, they're not morons to bet on a obvious loser.

Idiocy 6:

USA cannot rule the world alone because modern technology (drone subs, smart torpedoes) undermines ability of USA to project military power. Like ancient Athens, USA can only dominate via alliances, and right now we are alienating our single most important potential ally, which is Russia.

Huh? When has Russia been our ally? What in the holy name of fuck are you smoking or licking aside from Vlad's ass?

Idiocy 7:

With Russia as USA ally, China is blocked on all sides. With Russia as China's ally, providing the energy and raw materials China would otherwise need to import by sea lanes, China is in a position to drive the USA out of Asia entirely, which will have massive political and economic repercussions. Very very stupid of USA to be bringing about Russia-China alliance.

OK, this is simply an Olgino-concocted geopolitical word salad. Screw that.

Slava Ukraine!

[Kozerog]

But anyway, WW II, should we have just sat that one out Pat?

Not sat it out entirely, but no reason to favor USSR versus Nazi Germany. We could have negotiated with Hitler and thus pitted a weak Germany versus a weak USSR (possibly with independent Ukraine) and thus prevented USSR dominance after WW2.

As for the blessed jews, just as many people died under Stalin and Mao, there was the Rwanda atrocity which is now mostly forgotten, the mostly forgotten Pol Pot atrocity in Cambodia, the on going Yemen catastrophe, etc, etc. But only the poor Jews seem to matter, and only the Jews get exempt from scrutiny about Nazi like concentration camps in Gaza, and about nuclear and biological weapons proliferation, and anyone who questions why the blessed jews are so special is an anti-Semite.

But anyone who thinks there's no trouble with worldwide autocracy today ...

And how does bringing Russia and China together help with this? How did USA intervention in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya make democracy flourish in those countries?

USA cannot rule the world alone because modern technology (drone subs, smart torpedoes) undermines ability of USA to project military power. Like ancient Athens, USA can only dominate via alliances, and right now we are alienating our single most important potential ally, which is Russia.

With Russia as USA ally, China is blocked on all sides. With Russia as China's ally, providing the energy and raw materials China would otherwise need to import by sea lanes, China is in a position to drive the USA out of Asia entirely, which will have massive political and economic repercussions. Very very stupid of USA to be bringing about Russia-China alliance.

Buchanan has another essay up today at that site. Similar points as what I am making.

[John Clayton]

More American mercenaries have met their Maker in Donbas. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...as/7925220001/ Shudda stayed in Memphis, Elvis.

Former see / S of the British forces now admits Ukraine is beaten and the glorious Russian Army have won. Suck it up. Or, better still, copy Memphis boy.

PedroMorales is a paid Russian troll.

[PedroMorales]

More American mercenaries have met their Maker in Donbas. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...as/7925220001/ Shudda stayed in Memphis, Elvis.

Former see / S of the British forces now admits Ukraine is beaten and the glorious Russian Army have won. Suck it up. Or, better still, copy Memphis boy.

[Xpartan]

Monroe Doctrine originated in 1823 not 1923, typo.

I didn't mean to say Russia "will be ended by this war". The Russian Empire will, without a doubt, fail spectacularly, but Russia is here to stay. Hopefully, in a smaller and less homicidal state then the Third Rome.

[Paulie97]

Monroe Doctrine originated in 1823 not 1923, typo.

[Paulie97]

https://original.antiwar.com/buchana...-mortal-enemy/

Forgot to read this one. It's a classic case of Buchanan cherry picking the historical evidence along with fallacious comparisons seen through his isolationist lens. He mocks the French Revolution while ignoring the American and fruitful democracy that followed. He cherry picks quotes from the Founders, but out of context as we then were a new, weak, and vulnerable nation. Preservation was the aim as we weren't a major power. Nonetheless both Washington and Jefferson advocated foreign trade and saw a place for foreign alliances in the matter of war.

https://www.americanforeignrelations...-founders.html

Then Pat leaps to WW II complaining about Stalin while Hitler gets a total pass. This isn't surprising given his past associations with Holocaust revisionists while personally advocating some of the same.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB940785195432234780

But anyway, WW II, should we have just sat that one out Pat? Had he been involved in politics back then that's certainly the side he would have taken. US isolationism is an old scrouge that never learns.

Then he's off to Nicaragua, well yea, there were some alliances with dictators in opposition to worldwide communism. It was the lessor of two evils dilemma and the Monroe Doctrine (1923). Be sure that South Korea is very glad we didn't sit their cause out in the 50's.

But anyone who thinks there's no trouble with worldwide autocracy today wasn't paying attention with Trump's light then violent coup efforts culminating in Jan 6th and the ongoing nonsense that follows it now, both in the US and in Europe, all of course omitted from Pat's analysis. Or even in the microcosm of the same here in a hooker forum where Ukraine's quest for democracy is downplayed along with their significant progress toward reforms since 2014 and the break with Russia. This while the vile behavior and society which is Russia is either embraced or swept under the rug.

Pat can do his cherry picked, agenda driven history lessons but we are going to keep supporting democracy and sending Ukraine the desired weapons. The world is a community and we and our allies have a role to play, both in trade and defense.

Buchanan is what he is, a biased far right ideologue that latches onto what suits his preconceptions and ignores what doesn't. It's the realm where half-truths are linked together to create untruths, using history in a way to further his politics, and in a way that responsible professional historians never do. But he's still a step up from Blumenthal so I stand by my congratulations, though with less enthusiasm after now refreshing my memory. He's been off the radar for a good while.

[Paulie97]

Latest from Pat Buchanan, American political commentator, columnist, politician, assistant and special consultant to USA Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan:

https://original.antiwar.com/buchana...-mortal-enemy/

His previous analysis also very accurate. To wit, Ukraine will never get enough US help to "win". Probably Ukrainian higher ups have figured this out and are anticipating an eventual mutiny by the Ukrainian people. So no wonder they steal everything they can while they can and put the loot safely in Swiss banks. (Russian higher ups do the same, of course.).

https://original.antiwar.com/buchana...s-in-conflict/

Is Buchanan also a serial liar?

Though an old right isolationist that is often wrong, Buchanan is way above Blumenthal in the integrity department. Congratulations on the upgrade. It's a source worth reading, and not surprisingly he says nothing about any expected coming "mutiny" in Ukraine while the powers that be currently hoard away funds abroad for an escape. Perhaps you forgot to drop the Blumenthal link for that one (Wink) or it's just another installment of your anti-American, anti-Ukrainian wishful thinking. But I'll second Xpartan's reply to you in that article is three months old and Russia keeps stepping on their dicks and pissing off the West more. And Buchanan conveniently left out the part where Zelensky early on offered to make Ukraine a neutral zone if confirmed by popular vote. But Russia has shown no genuine interest in negotiations though as the pain keeps coming this is liable to change. Ukraine knowing their intentions are willing to fight for their existence as a people. If anything the botched run on Kyiv taught us its that Russia wants it all, the Ukrainian farmlands, industries, and ports. All the other "reasons" given for the invasion were horseshit. But there's apparently a good bit of discord within the Russian armed forces while they're releasing prisoners to fight. CNN got a live interview with this guy at an undisclosed location. Good work!

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/22/europ...ntl/index.html

And the old black and white thinking error keeps popping up here as this one very likely won't wind up all or nothing. The war likely will end at the negotiating table though you get plenty of all or nothing talk from both sides at the moment. Talks of total victory go further to motivate troops than what I just stated. So Ukraine is currently strengthening their position in negotiations while the West sends the message that tyrants don't get to change borders in Europe without severe consequences. Ukraine wants to fight, asked us for weapons and the answer is yes. The USA, NATO, that's who we are and what we do and we've shed plenty of blood for what we stand for. Freedom isn't free.

That said the time has come! I'm heading south to Colombia for my vacation and political discussions are never part of these events, even with other ISG members I meet there on the ground. You all hold down the fort until I return.

P.S. Gas prices are still dropping, at least here in the USA. Isn't that lovely?

[Paulie97]

This Viktor Yanukovych was his own worst enemy and dug his own grave living in opulent luxury in typical Russo kleptocrat fashion while shirking from an EU trade deal. The vast majority of the country was fed up with him already, but after a truce was broken and in the range of 100 protestors were shot down by government police, all bets were off. So the crook was impeached, then stole 37 billion and ran to Russia where he belongs. It's not complicated and is all rather predictable. A people begin to take an interest in democracy and this draws resistance from autocrats at home and abroad, no "CIA coup" is needed. And that's irrespective of the Noam Chomskys and social media hacks like Max Blumenthal who see the USA hiding under every Bush and as the cause of all the evil on the planet, and this while they prop up murderous dictators like Putin and Assad. It's highly biased, dishonest, self-serving, and pukeworthy among us who love freedom and democracy.

Nonetheless we tolerate it. Blumenthal is still a US citizen as far as I know as that's who we are. We tolerate stupid, false, and unpatriotic publications. Try that in Russia.