German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Bfsie]

Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 %

Plus 19% value-added tax of all the WG's and monger's entrance fee and other taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany

Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year.

How do you know that? Don't ask me the answer because I don't know it. I didn't say they are not greedy or greedy because I don't know. I just raised the issues which need to be considered when we discuss about whether they are greedy or not.

The point is that current FKK club format is a well tested format and I DO believe that If the owners of clubs have room to lower or eliminate the entrance fee of WGs and even mongers, they will do that because of the competition among FKK clubs in a free market.

Remember Germany is a free-market country and the business in Germany are subject to intense and constant competition from their competitors. If a business is not competitive in terms of its price, it will quickly be out of business.

[Sirioja]

I've been to both clubs multiple times over the last year and it's not true that Globe girls are on average better looking than Aphro. Probably the contrary. Sure Megan is one exception but not every girl at Globe looks like her! I think it would be harder to make it at Aphro because the standard is higher. I like to go to both. They both offer different experiences. There are girls at Aphro with better bodies than Megan for sure. And some with prettier faces. She has a unique combo but it's one girl out of 100 at Globe. For service level Globe is more guaranteed high level service though as the rules are tighter. At Aphro girls are freer.

Megan is not the prettiest for me at Globe, when she was at Sharks. Some are sexier than her at Globe, but unfortunately for me, my eyes didn't see her level for look at Aphro, but average level of looks for more than 40 girls seen, was low for me, these girls couldn't work at Globe because not pretty enough. My bad experience when I drove 1000 kms on this day. Can't say about level in bed. I'm pretty sure Aphro girls pay not far from 80 on 280 to Aphro.

[Member #4636]

With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:.

Nice input, however I disagree in some things.

First of all except for Artemis as you mentioned I don't think that other clubs cost that much to be built. Furniture and all equipment and decor is cheap.

Regarding 10 % return on investment. Well I think they make much more because if you do the math these clubs make around 7-10 million turn over a year. Running expenses (for which I cannily think about payroll cost as the most expensive) are normally much less maybe 50 % of that. So that is around 45-50 % gross profit before taxation. You.

Corporate taxation in Germany is 15 % so there you are what remains in pocket.

[Sebastiane]

Aphro level of looks is lower on average than Globe. Most of Aphro girls can t work at Globe, no Megan, no Joana at Aphro. I think Globe girls pay about 30 from 140 to Globe. Ask Aphro girls how much they pay from 280, they have to pay for our free drinks. Big turn over at Aphro because slow business, too expensive for level of looks, most often quite empty except on few nights. I felt a bit lonely when I was the only guy at 7. 30 pm on a Thursday, more than 40 girls staring, smiling at me, but unfortunately no wow. Girls say they don t like Globe when they can t make good business or when they are fired. Megan told me my advice was excellent, my way to thank her.

I've been to both clubs multiple times over the last year and it's not true that Globe girls are on average better looking than Aphro. Probably the contrary. Sure Megan is one exception but not every girl at Globe looks like her! I think it would be harder to make it at Aphro because the standard is higher. I like to go to both. They both offer different experiences. There are girls at Aphro with better bodies than Megan for sure. And some with prettier faces. She has a unique combo but it's one girl out of 100 at Globe. For service level Globe is more guaranteed high level service though as the rules are tighter. At Aphro girls are freer.

[Akibono]

Nobody here argues over 50 euro. But 50 x X euro. With 100 rooms a year, that is 5000 euro.

Your billionaire may make his income from shoes sold at a price of 51 euro each. Take away 'only 50 euro', and he probably wouldn't even be a millionaire even.

You can believe whatever you want.

[Bfsie]

With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:

1. The owners of FKK clubs invested a lot of money to the clubs. A good size of club can easily cost several million euros. I heard that Artemis costed its owner over 10 millions euro. So every year they need to have profit of certain percentage of investment as investment return. It is not like mom and pop store whose owner would probably be satisfied if he can earn several thousands euro per month. Let's say the owner conservatively wants 10% of investment as profit each year and if the FKK club costed him 5 million euro, so he wants 500K euro (5 millions X 10%) each year as profit. IMO, 10% return on investment is not too greedy (and also see my second point).

2. The establishments like FKK in sex industry is much more vulnerable to be closed down by the government than normal business, due to its nature of business dealing with prostitutes. So the return on FKK investment should be much higher than the return from normal business to cover the risk being shut down prematurely.

3. Current FKK club format is well tested format financially. I am pretty sure that during early stage of FKK club development the owners of FKK clubs already tested various formats including the format of WG's entrance-free you guys discussed about. By the way, don't hope WG's free entrance because, in my opinion, the owners will certainly levy the loss of WG's entrance fee on mongers by asking WGs to pay 50% (or XX%) of WG's session income to them like normal brothels, this will surely raise (possibly double) the session price for mongers and the mongers still have to pay their entrance fee.

[Bfsie]

Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being... Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.

His problem is that he is a [CodeWord910] who is sexually attracted (and addicted) to girls (or boys) under 18, so FKK clubs wouldn't help him, nor the girls below 18 in Europe because the American law in terms of [CodeWord910] states that any American who has sex with a girl or boy under 18 is punishable in USA regardless of which country it happens in. An American better not be a [CodeWord910] because the punishment for such a sex crime is very severe and he might also be killed in the prison by his fellow inmates if he is an ordinary man and usually not well physically protected unlike Epstein. I think Epstein will mostly likely spend the rest of his life in prison if next week the judge denies his release on bail pending his trial.

[Pessimist]

Interesting discussion about girls' entry fee and how that may be impacting service levels. I think many members made some very valid points. I think Optimist said 25 goes to the government as some sort of license fee? Did that amount change / increase over time? I think it is not reasonable to expect that clubs will lower girls' entry fee to zero because they need to reimburse the government for 25, and also they incur real expenses for food, drinks, other amenities in the club — same amount as they incur in the case of male guests. You can argue they are charging men and women too much entry fee, and whether that is a good argument or not, they do have real expenses and the club managements are not in the charity business to be providing free services and food and goodies to all and sundry.

It would be interesting to compare girls' entry fee amounts in a given locale and see whether differences in those amounts lead to any measurable differences in service levels. For instance, if a club charges 75 and another club nearby charges 100, the girls at the former have a lower threshold to cover their costs. Is there any evidence that girls at that club feel less pressured and hence provide better service?

Clubs can always lower the girls' entry fee to gain market share if they think it is an effective ploy. If they lower from 100 to 75, they can in theory attract more girls which in turn attracts more guys over time. Why are they not doing it? Perhaps they do not think it will work as a good business tactic? Or are these clubs run by managements who are so clueless that they do not know what is good for them? For example, you would not expect Sharks to lower its fee because with the way they currently are, they are still presumably making a large amount of money. But you might expect one of the laggard clubs in the Hessen area to at least try it. Oase lowered fee for men through early entry etc, so we know clubs are aware of the interplay between entry fee and volume growth. If they did not try this in the case of WGs yet, they probably know something we don't.

We also know some new clubs in the early days of the club did allow girls to work with very low entry fee. So, clubs have tried this tactic sporadically but not as a ongoing business strategy.

If the real goal of a club is *long term* profit maximization, it should do what it can to achieve its objective. Of course, some clubs may have other motives, especially those managed by questionable owners in which case their objective may not simply be profit maximization but other motives, potentially illegal. We simply do not know, unless you are an insider.

However, what I do know is that the fact that these entry fee structures have been in place for a long time and nothing much is being done to lower them over time, it is unlikely that they will listen to the pleas of a few people here and lower the amount or remove it altogether. That seems like wishful thinking to me.

[Sirioja]

An interesting observation about entrance prices for girls. Its not just in German FKKS too. A number of girls at Aphro have told me they left Globe because the working conditions were too strict and the club took too much of their earnings. I didn't even ask if the girls also have to pay. But I suppose the owners bottom line is to maximise their profits and, for now, there is a steady line of Romanian girls willing to take the place of any girls who don't like it both in Germany and Switzerland and Austria I guess.

Aphro level of looks is lower on average than Globe. Most of Aphro girls can t work at Globe, no Megan, no Joana at Aphro. I think Globe girls pay about 30 from 140 to Globe. Ask Aphro girls how much they pay from 280, they have to pay for our free drinks. Big turn over at Aphro because slow business, too expensive for level of looks, most often quite empty except on few nights. I felt a bit lonely when I was the only guy at 7. 30 pm on a Thursday, more than 40 girls staring, smiling at me, but unfortunately no wow. Girls say they don t like Globe when they can t make good business or when they are fired. Megan told me my advice was excellent, my way to thank her.

[Mr Ho]

I don't know about Atlantis but at World the girls used to pay about 40 if they started early. It meant they were quite relaxed about covering their costs.

40 euro? In Artemis if I remember right, it is 140 euro, but they get to sleep up stairs.

[Pistons]

Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.

Nobody here argues over 50 euro. But 50 x X euro. With 100 rooms a year, that is 5000 euro.

Your billionaire may make his income from shoes sold at a price of 51 euro each. Take away 'only 50 euro', and he probably wouldn't even be a millionaire even.

[Pistons]

I looked in some Laufhauses in Graz but they stunk. Literally. I thought the only guys who could stand them were the Turkish teenagers.

Well, I listen too much to people on the Austrian forum. Haven't tried them myself. But Laufhaus Vienna has some beautiful girls if looking at the pictures.

[Mr Ho]

Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.

True LOL.

But put it this way, they got themselves something they cannot buy easily now called US justice system LOL.

Also, by reading article, most of the sexual act they did is pretty much we mongers get or even less than what we have in the cases that I mentioned.

However, I do also think that there are individuals who live more higher intense crazier monger lives in certain area of this world where money is above law like in some of emerging nations in eastern Europe and south America etc.

The thing is I think there should be boundaries. What we mongers do in FKK for instance is based on consensus and these girls are protected by house and also German law, so it is enjoyable enough for me because it is not totally against these girls will.

As for 50 euro, sometimes I don't know why some mongers including myself fuss with 50 euro more LOL. But I got to say that 150 euro per hour is justifiable upsell, but it is something with this 200 euro per hour upsell that I do not like mentally LOL, it is not that I cannot pay 50 euro extra, but I just hate these scam that kills my mood LOL. But now that you mention it, next time I am in FKK, I might give my self in and see if girls will go more all out in room, which I actually had few experience where I paid 200 euro per hour session and one of it was mind blowing session LOL.

[Optimist]

It also means a girl is not going to be banned for bad behavior. In the case of a major dispute, it would be cheaper to ban the customer. Because the girls are the real customers, a captive market.

I wonder if girls had to pay these fees in the old days (FKK Atlantis etc)?

I don't know about Atlantis but at World the girls used to pay about 40 if they started early. It meant they were quite relaxed about covering their costs.

[Akibono]

Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being . Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.

Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.