Tips for Learning Thai Language

[Syzygies]

Many Khmers can speak Thai. Not many Thais can speak Khmer. Sure there are reasons for that like lots of Khmer workers in Thailand, but that's not it. I know some Thais doing business in Cambodia for years. Even when they try they have problems. They turn the "are" sound into "L" or "and". That's why they call Khmers "Khmen. " On the contrary Khmers in Thailand speak Thai without a problem, even when they're uneducated manual laborers doing very tough jobs on the margins of society.

I haven't met many Farang who can speak Thai. Most guys I know in Thailand speak a few scattered Thai words. The best speakers are okay but often fall back into English. I have met some who are probably fluent, and I don't doubt there are more. But yes, most farangs in Thailand speak little Thai which is somewhat strange since most Thais speak little English. Then again Thai is tonal and English is not. In my opinion the languages are very different.

I can't specify for Khmer, but I can say that Thai are and L sound are not at all the same as English, and hence they do sound different, especially when speaking English words with are and L. So they don't exactly swap them either, is just depends what our ears think it sounds like compared to an English sound.

English R has a somewhat rounded small mouth. Thai R is pronounced with horizontally wider stretched mouth. They may roll Rs especially if they are from Khmer speaking region (LOL). English L, the tongue must flick the top teeth. Thai L does not do that and hence does not sound like proper L to us. Thais might say "I rove you" or sound that way. LOL Yet Aroi can sound like Aloi because pronounced in more lazy way. Thais do not say "Flied Lice". That is a myth, and they really cannot say "Flied Lice" (due to lack of tongue flick) or maybe its the way some Chinese do it. "Flame Tree" sounded very like "Frame Tree" to me.

As a Thai speaker, I did not feel that Khmer was so difficult although recognised that some sounds and constructions were completely new to me and would take time to be able to hear them. Lack of Tones is a bonus. Also lack of conjugations, case endings, etc. Make a language much easier. Simple grammar.

I read this " The Northern Khmer dialect is spoken by over a million Khmers in the southern regions of Northeast Thailand and is treated by some linguists as a separate language. " So Thailand Khmer is very different to modern Central Khmer.

Just yesterday, listened to a group of Thais from Phuket conversing. The tones were quite different to central Thai (as expected) and some words cut short. Yet I found them a lot easier to understand than Isaan speakers. It must be that the special Southern word Vocab is not so prevalent, and mostly normal Thais words are used (if slightly altered).

I speak Thai 80% of my time in Thailand, but that is because conversing with non Thais infrequently. I also don't meet that many Farangs I would consider to be very fluent in Thai. Most of them sound quaint or funny, more than fluent (expats in the local pub). I have met some quite fluent speakers that were Japanese, Indian, from Myanmar etc. Fluent Farangs exist but I am just not in their social arena. I recognise my limitations. 12 year old kids are much more fluent than me. Perhaps one day I will go get tested at the University to see what they think my level is. There are plenty of English constructs that I struggle to get into Thai. I can come up with something understandable, but may be a clumsy construct. Today did not know the right word for "glueing something on to something else". I know the word for glue but that is not a verb. So I had to say something more like "use glue to make something stick to the other thing". So Farangs often need to say something in a slightly strange way due to limited vocab. Other day wanted to talk about the Hotel carpark "boom gate". Had no clue what that might be called in Thai. LOL "maay pit thang" "maay haam phaan" were my crude thoughts meaning like "plank to block the path". LOL We invent! Later I thought just try the obvious "pratuu boom" (sometimes English words can be borrowed for modern age things) which could mean "boom gate". Even now I still don't know as hard to find in the dictionary. Fortunate we can use English in most Hotels, but staff might not know what a "Boom Gate" is anyway (perhaps they do). Some things just don't come up in frequent conversation. So education in a language needs to be ongoing with high frequency, like daily would be better.

If I could fully understand the TV News in Thailand, then I would be able to rate myself as fluent. All I can claim is fluent enough for casual conversation. There was a TV program with Chuwit (politician ex Soapy owner) as host. He spoke so slowly and clearly that I could understand him miles better than the normal news. I enjoyed that program as was a good source for listening to Thai. Chuwit mentioned a lot of detail about soapies using artesian water, and other scandalss, so he covers topics in the news and politics and makes it easier to follow, for not so highly educated persons (in Thai matters). Some radio programs have very clear slow speakers too. Sometimes just have to find something that suits your level.

Interesting that Lao is the language of country of Laos. Initially I did not know the name of the language drops the S. Lao is close to Thai Isaan dialect but perhaps not quite identical, so best that the Isaan language be considered to be a Lao dialect (without using official Lao script).

[Rick Rock]

It's already a lot of effort and time consuming for a basic westerner to learn speaking Thai that I don't see the point of learning these other languages unless one is living in these places and cannot communicate with locals in Thai.

Well there are millions of people in Thailand who speak languages other than Thai, so it just depends on what you want to do. I agree with you generally though and I said as much in my earlier post. Learning Thai makes the most sense for most people as most everyone in Thailand speaks it.

Even for the Isan that is probably the most commonly heard by us after the Thai, I found it not easy to understand or talk. I had a very close friend from Isan for 2 years or so, and I just learned a few words that she would often use with me.

Lao is perhaps more useful for the general person than something like Lanna would be since almost everyone in Lao PDR speaks it. Then again, Thai and Lao are mutually intelligible so again you wouldn't have to learn Lao to get around in Lao PDR, and definitely not to get around in Isan!

I agree that Khmer and Thai are using a few identical vocabular, but these languages are still sounding very different. I'm actually trying to learn Khmer and I was happy each time I saw an identical vocabular as I could learn the lesson more easily (due to my Thai vocabulary background). I'm still in my early weeks of learning the language but I found it very difficult to understand Khmers when they speak their language. Even for words that I've already learnt.

I wonder what your native language is. It might matter. I found exactly the opposite that Thai was much more difficult. Reason being that Thai is a tonal language unlike almost all Western languages including my native English. Khmer is not tonal of course, just like English. Probably if your native language is tonal like Mandarin or Vietnamese it would be much easier to learn Thai.

Many Khmers can speak Thai. Not many Thais can speak Khmer. Sure there are reasons for that like lots of Khmer workers in Thailand, but that's not it. I know some Thais doing business in Cambodia for years. Even when they try they have problems. They turn the "are" sound into "L" or "and". That's why they call Khmers "Khmen. " On the contrary Khmers in Thailand speak Thai without a problem, even when they're uneducated manual laborers doing very tough jobs on the margins of society.

Vietnamese who live in Cambodia have trouble with a lot of sounds too. Even when they are in the country for years or decades there are some words they just can't say. The number five "pram" becomes "paum" for them.

I've been told in Phnom Phen that many westerners can speak Khmer over there but I'm wondering what level of Khmer these guys are talking. For example when in Thailand I sometimes hear foreigners speaking Thai but most of them were lacking on the pronunciation even though these guys were clearly expats living there for a long time.

I haven't met many Farang who can speak Thai. Most guys I know in Thailand speak a few scattered Thai words. The best speakers are okay but often fall back into English. I have met some who are probably fluent, and I don't doubt there are more. But yes, most farangs in Thailand speak little Thai which is somewhat strange since most Thais speak little English. Then again Thai is tonal and English is not. In my opinion the languages are very different.

The US Foreign Service Institute seems to agree. For native English speakers it puts Thai and Lao in the third most difficult of the four language groups. Oddly it puts Khmer in the same group though, which I don't agree with. You don't need to learn tones in Khmer and changing the tone of the word doesn't change the meaning.

In Cambodia few foreigners speak Khmer that I know of, but my friends and associates who do are all near fluency. But a lot of Khmers speak English and other languages, so foreigners can get around easily. For example any taxi that picks you up at the airport in Phnom Penh can speak and read English. Not the case in Thailand even though it has millions more tourists. I was once picked up by a taxi driver in Chiang Rai who was nearly fluent in English and I was very pleasantly surprised. Then I found out he was actually Karen.

[Rick Rock]

Got that wrong. Kaliang (Thai word) are the "Karen" probably much more plentiful in Thailand than the Akha.

Thais use "kaliang" for any "mountain people" including lots of people who aren't from any mountains. The same way they call lots of people Burmese who are actually Karen, Kachin, etc.

There are more than a million Karen in Thailand (not sure where your 400,000 number comes from). A lot of them speak Karen, Thai and Burmese. There are only 500,000 Akha in the whole world, so definitely not as common. But if you go into some places you can meet lots and lots of them. I know a place in Chiang Mai that is almost entirely Akha, but again they all speak Thai anyway. I never got further than learning to count to 10 in Akha.

My personal goal now is to learn just a few hundred of the most common Isaan words, that are different to Thai words (not just pronounced slightly differently). That will hopefully boost my understanding of Isaan people from about 50% to about 70% or so. If I was staying in Bangkok, I certainly would not bother.

I'm sure you've already learned the word for cock in Lao. It's a great word to know, not only for horny guys, but also because it's the same in Cambodia, Laos and with all Isan people in Thailand who make up most of the prostitute population.

Enjoy!

[Rick Rock]

I did not claim that Khmer spoken in Thailand was a dialect of Thai, only it is a dialect of Khmer spoken in Thailand (not spoken outside of Thailand I guess other than by modern migration of those speakers).

Northern Khmer is also spoken over the border in parts of Cambodia. Remember that they are the same people. The Khmer in Siem Reap for example is pretty close to the Khmer in Surin. In any event the Khmer living in Surin and other parts of Thailand can totally understand and be understood by speakers of what they call "Khmer Krom" -- the somewhat standard dialect used in Phnom Penh and most of the middle of the country now.

I have noticed some words in common with Thai or close.

Many many many words. I speak both languages and it's sometimes shocking how many Khmer words the Thai use.

There are also the regionally common words like "Phasa" in Thai, which is Pisa in Khmer, Bahasa in Malay or Indonesia.

I don't know if Suay exists outside of Thailand to any significant extent or not.

Yes it exists across the border in Cambodia. The Suay people were cut in half by the border, just like the Jarai and the Khmer. They're not called Suay in Cambodia though. They're called Khmer boran. They call themselves "Kuy" actually, not Suay. Suay is a Thai word that means something like subordinates.

I did not bother to list most languages spoken in multiple countries or primarily spoken elsewhere, otherwise we would be listing everything, and I did not claim to be totally comprehensive.

No problem. Everyone pretty much speaks Thai as it was forced so if you learn Thai you can communicate with most people in Thailand. Depending on where you are though you can find that more people actually speak other languages than Thai. For example I've been in a place where Shan was spoken by nearly everyone, but of course they all spoke Thai too.

Southern Thai language is known as Phaasaa Phaak Tai, or Phaasaa Pak Tai, not really "Pak Thai" (never heard that at all). "Tai" (unaspirated without the letter H) means south, and "Phaak" is a region, but can be pronounced short "Pak" by the locals.

The language is called Pak Thai or Thai Thin Tai. I would write it out in Thai but I guess we can't use non-English letters here. Phasa just means language. Like Phasa Thai or Phasa Khmen.

I am not sure we need to include Vietnamese and Mandarin here as not mainly used in Thailand

There are actually significant speakers of both languages, not related to current tourists at all.

Fifteen percent of the population of Thailand is actually Chinese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Chinese.

Vietnamese are more limited, but they're in Thailand as a result of several migrations. Tens of thousands living there for a long time. Here's a map showing where they're concentrated: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ic_map.svg.png.

The funny thing is that there are also Thai people in Vietnam. Lots in fact. Check it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_people.

Most borders are arbitrary. That's really true in Southeast Asia.

I suppose was quite inconsistent for me to list Khmer and Suay since not Thai dialects, but I included them basically only because I experienced to hear them more frequently in Thailand and do not hear them any where else. I have heard Shan language in Mae Hong Son and did not understand much of it. Similarly used a hairdresser with Kaliang (Akha) staff and no clues what they were saying. I guess many guys have been to the southern Islands with Myanmar staff too.

Location will decide many things. Around the bars, in Bangkok and Pattaya you're mostly going to hear Lao and Central Thai. The Khmers rarely use Khmer in public because they don't want to be different. If you go to Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai, you'll regularly hear Shan and probably also Akha and maybe Karen. It's all over Thailand though. Lots of workers in Bangkok restaurants even in big and expensive modern malls hold Burmese passports and are Karen, Kachin, Shan or something other than Thai. Same goes for lots and lots of workers up north.

Most Surin girls say they can't really communicate with real Cambodian girls and visa versa in Khmer language (the dialects are a bit too dissimilar).

Absolutely not true. Most Khmer girls in Thailand just have never been to Cambodia or met other "Khmer Krom", and they're taught that they are "Khmer Thai" as a totally distinct population from birth so they say stuff like this.

I speak both languages. When I meet Khmers in Thailand I speak to them only in Khmer. I have also been with many Khmer friends from Cambodia in Thailand and we've all spoken in Khmer regularly including in Walking Street go go bars and on Soi 6. Never had a problem with any Khmer girl from Surin / Sisaket / Buriram / Roi Et. Northern Khmer is a dialect of Khmer, not a different language. It's totally and completely intelligible with the Khmer spoken in Phnom Penh, even more the Khmer spoken in Siem Reap.

Northern Khmer is much closer to Khmer than Lao is to Thai, but even Lao and Thai are mutually intelligible.

The girl from "Boy Bpaet" told me it is much easier for her to communicate with Surin girls in Thai language and she indicated Surin Khmer was like an ancient Khmer dialect.

Probably she doesn't know Khmer that well. Probably she only heard it from her mom or dad, and rarely anywhere else. Definitely she didn't learn it in school. She was taught Thai instead. This is the policy of Thailand. So as a product of assimilation she's more comfortable with Thai. Same thing happens everywhere like second and third generation Latinos in the United States who speak "Spanglish" because they're not actually fluent in Spanish beyond the kind of words you would share with your mom or dad.

Thai has borrowed words from Khmer and from English, from Cantonese, etc.

Thai is closer to Khmer than any other language in terms of shared vocabulary, even though Thai is from a different language group. The Thais were under the Khmer empire for a very long time and based a lot of their civilization on it. There are many Khmer words in Thai. It's a huge chunk of the language.

Smart = Thai: chalat. Khmer: chalat.

Hole = Thai: roon. Khmer: roon.

Here = Thai: thini. Khmer: tini.

This = Thai: ni. Khmer: ni.

Even whole phrases are very similar like "come here," "how many," etc.

I was shocked to learn that I could understand a price quoted in Cantonese because the Thai numbers clearly got borrowed from Chinese.

Yes, the numbers are almost totally the same. You can also use the same numbers in Khmer if you're counting in tens.

30 = Thai: sam ship. Khmer: sam sup.

40 = Thai: sai ship. Khmer: sai sup.

50 = Thai: ha ship. Khmer: ha sup.

60 = Thai: hok ship. Khmer: hok sup.

Etc.

But while the Thai use Cantonese numbers for everything, Khmer have their own numbers up to 20. So 30 in Thai is "sam sip sam" while in Khmer it is "sam sup bai".

On other hand Vietnamese appears to have almost zero words in common with Thai, I was yet to find one.

Well hot in Thai is "lon" and cold in Vietnamese is "lanh" and they're pronounced almost exactly the same, so there's that.

But seriously, there are actually some cognates though, probably from Chinese influence since both the Vietnamese and Thais migrated south from what is now China.

Chicken = Thai: gai. Vietnamese: ga.

Tea = Thai: cha. Vietnamese: tra.

Noodle = Thai: mi. Vietnamese: mi. (And noodle in Khmer is: mi).

According to linguists Vietnamese is in the Austro Asiatic family (with Khmer) and Thai is in the Kra Dai family. But Thai and Khmer have lots of cognates which Khmer and Vietnamese have very few.

[Syzygies]

Similarly used a hairdresser with Kaliang (Akha) staff and no clues what they were saying.

Got that wrong. Kaliang (Thai word) are the "Karen" probably much more plentiful in Thailand than the Akha.

Although Thailand has about 74 languages, the most common are:
Central Thai (first language of 20M and spoken by 60M), Isaan (Lao) (first Language of 15.8M and spoken by 23M), Muang Kham (Northern Thai) (6M as first Language), Pak Tai (Southern Thai) (4.5M), Northern Khmer (1.4M), and Yawi-Malay (1.4M), and then to minor languages, e.g. various Karen dialects and Kuy (Soui/Suay) (0.4M). Apparently the Thailand Khmer and Malay are both quite divergent dialects compared to normal Cambodian and normal Malay.

Fortuantely Isaan/Lao is closely enough related to Thai that I can understand about 50% of it. Many vocab words purely have altered pronunciation. Nearly all the plants, vegies, and Fruits have Isaan names to learn. "Bak Nat" (Thai sapparot) is pineapple,"Bak sii daa" (Farang) is a Guava, "bak hung" (malagor) is Papaya,"bak khaam" (Makhaam) Tamarind . It is easier to learn names of objects and things than the other parts of speech. It just seems like giving them a nickname. Similarly other dialects can have their own names for common things. However using Thai names for fruits is generally quite acceptable, just as speaking normal Thai can be understood very well every where (except by my Hotel staff right now, who are foreigners. Ha ha).

My personal goal now is to learn just a few hundred of the most common Isaan words, that are different to Thai words (not just pronounced slightly differently). That will hopefully boost my understanding of Isaan people from about 50% to about 70% or so. If I was staying in Bangkok, I certainly would not bother.

[Syzygies]

There are more languages in Thailand than dialects. You've got:

Thai.

Lao (Isan).

Lanna (Northern Thai).

Pak Thai (Southern Thai).

Shan (Tai Yai).

Tai Lue.

<cut>
Vietnamese.

Mandarin.

Mon.

Hokkien.

And a few more!

Thai and Lao (which is also what the people in Isan speak) are mutually intelligible but considered separate languages. Lanna and Thai are mutually intelligible, but Lanna is often considered a dialect of Thai. These kinds of classifications usually have more to do with politics than practical reality. When Thailand was being formed there was a major push made to reclassify the subject people of the Siamese Empire as "Thais. ".

One interesting example is that the Thais called the Lanna language "Lao" when Lanna was an independent empire, but in reality Lanna is more closely related to Thai than to the Lao language!

The reality is that if you can speak and understand Thai / Lao / Lanna you can understand and be understood by Thai / Lao / Lanna.

You'll have a lot more problems with anyone speaking "Pak Thai" in the South. The say are instead of L and cut a lot of their words short, and there are many other differences too. The reality again though is that you wouldn't have any problem in practice, because Pak Thai speakers can also speak Thai!

The Thai's call the Shan people "Tai Yai" or "big Thai. " The people are related, overlap in geography and migrated along similar roots. Their languages are related scientifically speaking, but they're not mutually intelligible at all.

As a further matter of clarification: Northern Khmer (Khmer Surin) is absolutely not a dialect of Thai. It's a dialect of Khmer. Both are mutually intelligible. Northern Khmer is closer to the older form of the Khmer language and a few sounds are different, but otherwise Khmers from Surin, Buriram, Sisaket, Roi Et and the other parts of Thailand that have long been inhabited by Khmers can speak with their erstwhile compatriots from across the border with little problem.

Ha ha. I am sure you have found out a lot more about languages used in Thailand than me.

I did not claim that Khmer spoken in Thailand was a dialect of Thai, only it is a dialect of Khmer spoken in Thailand (not spoken outside of Thailand I guess other than by modern migration of those speakers). I have noticed some words in common with Thai or close. I don't know if Suay exists outside of Thailand to any significant extent or not. I did not bother to list most languages spoken in multiple countries or primarily spoken elsewhere, otherwise we would be listing everything, and I did not claim to be totally comprehensive.

Southern Thai language is known as Phaasaa Phaak Tai, or Phaasaa Pak Tai, not really "Pak Thai" (never heard that at all). "Tai" (unaspirated without the letter H) means south, and "Phaak" is a region, but can be pronounced short "Pak" by the locals.

Yes I did not list all the mountain peoples languages, that are really quite numerous. I am not sure we need to include Vietnamese and Mandarin here as not mainly used in Thailand, but clearly and group of people descended from foreigners (or travellers) can speak any language they like, including English. I have met quite a few Philippinos working in Bangkok too, and heard Deutsch fairly frequently. I suppose was quite inconsistent for me to list Khmer and Suay since not Thai dialects, but I included them basically only because I experienced to hear them more frequently in Thailand and do not hear them any where else. I have heard Shan language in Mae Hong Son and did not understand much of it. Similarly used a hairdresser with Kaliang (Akha) staff and no clues what they were saying. I guess many guys have been to the southern Islands with Myanmar staff too.

I have known a Shan (Tai Yai or Thai Yai) girl for many years, she speaks Thai in a funny way, probably close to Lanna style, so I got used to her strange pronunciations of Thai words. I could semi understand her speaking to friends on the phone so had to guess that might not have been Shan language she was using, although there are at least some common words (with Lanna Thai - not sure just how much). She eventually learned to read and write Thai (as an adult), as her first written language, so her spelling is worse than mine. I communicate with another Laos girl whose Thai spelling is also worse than mine, but we get by.

Most Surin girls say they can't really communicate with real Cambodian girls and visa versa in Khmer language (the dialects are a bit too dissimilar). So I think "mutually understandable" is an exaggeration according to what the speakers tell me. The girl from "Boy Bpaet" told me it is much easier for her to communicate with Surin girls in Thai language and she indicated Surin Khmer was like an ancient Khmer dialect. Another girl from Siem Riep seemed to agree. She looks Thai so when I first met her and she wanted to speak English instead of Thai, I thought she was just "dutjarit" but later could see her Thai was not clearly pronounced. Don't know if that is completely true about being Ancient Khmer (is just what Cambodian girls believe or have been taught), but would make sense based on Isaan regions being part of the Khmer empire in the distant past hence the Khmer style temples in Buri Ram, Phi Mai, Sisaket, Surin, etc.

Thai has borrowed words from Khmer and from English, from Cantonese, etc. I was shocked to learn that I could understand a price quoted in Cantonese because the Thai numbers clearly got borrowed from Chinese. On other hand Vietnamese appears to have almost zero words in common with Thai, I was yet to find one.

[Syzygies]

It's already a lot of effort and time consuming for a basic westerner to learn speaking Thai that I don't see the point of learning these other languages unless one is living in these places and cannot communicate with locals in Thai. Even for the Isan that is probably the most commonly heard by us after the Thai, I found it not easy to understand or talk. I had a very close friend from Isan for 2 years or so, and I just learned a few words that she would often use with me.

I agree that Khmer and Thai are using a few identical vocabular, but these languages are still sounding very different. I'm actually trying to learn Khmer and I was happy each time I saw an identical vocabular as I could learn the lesson more easily (due to my Thai vocabulary background). I'm still in my early weeks of learning the language but I found it very difficult to understand Khmers when they speak their language. Even for words that I've already learnt. I've been told in Phnom Phen that many westerners can speak Khmer over there but I'm wondering what level of Khmer these guys are talking. For example when in Thailand I sometimes hear foreigners speaking Thai but most of them were lacking on the pronunciation even though these guys were clearly expats living there for a long time.

Yes I agree with nearly everything. I don't know Khmer myself, but I can tell it is not easy, especially for someone who is not accustomed to Asian languages. I did learn a few phrases with my taxi driver in Phnom Penh of the modern Khmer, but naturally through lack of use have forgotten them now. Daily repetition is key. I use a flashcards App (Flashcards Deluxe) to learn vocab but it does not overcome learning to listen to the language as spoken. Probably need an expert teacher to explain all the pronunciation nuances, and then need to have practice to listen to it. Talking Language Apps can help. I liked ones that have two speeds for hearing a phrase, normal and slow. I did not think learning modern Khmer would be too difficult compared to Thai, having already had the Thai experience, but only hindered by my age now. Learning Thai, you already get to understand that there are sounds not existing in English. You have already learned the techniques to learn a language that work.

Above all, learning a language, requires, motivation and persistence.

I only start to learn Isaan because I am living immersed in it, so have to listen to it and try to understand. Could be years before I am any good at it.

For Thai, I watched countless hours of Thai soapies in my early years, to practice listening, as chatting to bar girls is only so useful. Also in my early Thai days I would spend multiple days with a girl full time, who could not speak English, so that immersed me completely and forced me to listen to and speak Thai. That happened after only 9 months of formal study, but my initial learning was almost daily practice of some sort and 6 hours teacher training per week.

Very important to concentrate on listening and speaking, so don't be concerned about the very complex Khmer script. Use some sort of Romanised transcription to show the pronunciation. I am sure the books have it.

For sure if I was immersed in the modern Khmer language, I would be making the effort to get to a good basic level. In Thai I have maybe 3000 to 4000 words I know well, but would like to increase that to 8000. Takes a lot of time and repetition. Just the other day, I had no idea how to say "wire mesh" in Thai knowing the basic word for wire only, yet Thai children would know what to say.

Something that slightly puts me off learning the language, is hearing other Expats speak Thai, and thinking they sound a bit funny. Then I wonder how funny the Thais think I sound, especially when I get the tones wrong at times, or even get a vowel wrong (which completely stuffs up the word). The plus side is I can communicate with non English speakers, even have some level of understanding with oldies in the remote villages. At Immigration, when extending my stay in Thailand, the lady seemed to be a bit anti foreigners who stay in Thailand a lot but have no Thai abilities. She seemed to like that we had our conversation fully in Thai, even though I am sure she could speak excellent English. Other Thais prefer to speak English, which is okay By me if their English is really good so that I can understand them easily. I don't like to put up with listening to really badly pronounced English for long. Bad grammar? No problem at all. I think for locals listening to us speak their language, the same should apply. They are okay If our pronunciation is not too horrible.

I must have been with some really patient Thai girls in the early days when my Thai was so weak. I guess it was still better than being with Farangs having zero Thai.

First 6 months of learning Khmer (or any language), I would suggest focus on pronunciation being of paramount importance. Learn it wrong, and you will be a bad speaker for a very long time. Reading and writing can start 2 years later I reckon. Very low priority.

[Paolo99]

Also, the Thai and Khmer language share a lot of vocabulary. Much of Thai culture is based on what went on under the Khmer Empire, and lots of words came over. If you speak either Thai or Khmer you will routinely hear the same words in both language, though of course Khmer is not tonal so the pronunciation can be different.

Examples of every day words that are the same in Thai and Khmer would be things like: here, this, nose, smart, hole, learn, etc. There are lots and lots of shared words. Don't take my word for it: http://womenlearnthai.com/index.php/...uence-in-thai/ As the article says though, this is a "sensitive subject" in Thailand. Face and all that, you know?

Then the word for your cock is the same in both Khmer and Lao (Isaan) too: it's "krador". How's that? Guess sex tourism has been going on long before the white man showed up!

I don't know if any of this will help you learn Thai enough to understand and be understood in Thailand. Probably your best bet would be to learn "Central Thai" which is just Thai, as that is taught all over the country. Learning another language like Tai Yai or Lao would depend on your situation.

Good luck.

It's already a lot of effort and time consuming for a basic westerner to learn speaking Thai that I don't see the point of learning these other languages unless one is living in these places and cannot communicate with locals in Thai. Even for the Isan that is probably the most commonly heard by us after the Thai, I found it not easy to understand or talk. I had a very close friend from Isan for 2 years or so, and I just learned a few words that she would often use with me.

I agree that Khmer and Thai are using a few identical vocabular, but these languages are still sounding very different. I'm actually trying to learn Khmer and I was happy each time I saw an identical vocabular as I could learn the lesson more easily (due to my Thai vocabulary background). I'm still in my early weeks of learning the language but I found it very difficult to understand Khmers when they speak their language. Even for words that I've already learnt. I've been told in Phnom Phen that many westerners can speak Khmer over there but I'm wondering what level of Khmer these guys are talking. For example when in Thailand I sometimes hear foreigners speaking Thai but most of them were lacking on the pronunciation even though these guys were clearly expats living there for a long time.

[Rick Rock]

There are more languages in Thailand than dialects. You've got:

Thai.

Lao (Isan).

Lanna (Northern Thai).

Pak Thai (Southern Thai).

Shan (Tai Yai).

Tai Lue.

Northern Khmer (Khmer Surin).

Suay.

Jarrai.

Karen.

Kachin.

Lihu.

Lasu.

Akha.

Burmese.

Arabic.

Hmong.

Wa.

Vietnamese.

Mandarin.

Mon.

Hokkien.

And a few more!

Thai and Lao (which is also what the people in Isan speak) are mutually intelligible but considered separate languages. Lanna and Thai are mutually intelligible, but Lanna is often considered a dialect of Thai. These kinds of classifications usually have more to do with politics than practical reality. When Thailand was being formed there was a major push made to reclassify the subject people of the Siamese Empire as "Thais. ".

One interesting example is that the Thais called the Lanna language "Lao" when Lanna was an independent empire, but in reality Lanna is more closely related to Thai than to the Lao language!

The reality is that if you can speak and understand Thai / Lao / Lanna you can understand and be understood by Thai / Lao / Lanna.

You'll have a lot more problems with anyone speaking "Pak Thai" in the South. The say are instead of L and cut a lot of their words short, and there are many other differences too. The reality again though is that you wouldn't have any problem in practice, because Pak Thai speakers can also speak Thai!

The Thai's call the Shan people "Tai Yai" or "big Thai. " The people are related, overlap in geography and migrated along similar roots. Their languages are related scientifically speaking, but they're not mutually intelligible at all.

As a further matter of clarification: Northern Khmer (Khmer Surin) is absolutely not a dialect of Thai. It's a dialect of Khmer. Both are mutually intelligible. Northern Khmer is closer to the older form of the Khmer language and a few sounds are different, but otherwise Khmers from Surin, Buriram, Sisaket, Roi Et and the other parts of Thailand that have long been inhabited by Khmers can speak with their erstwhile compatriots from across the border with little problem. They can't read and write Khmer though, because they historically weren't allowed to learn the language after Thailand annexed Surin and declared the people to be "Khmer-Thai. ".

Also, the Thai and Khmer language share a lot of vocabulary. Much of Thai culture is based on what went on under the Khmer Empire, and lots of words came over. If you speak either Thai or Khmer you will routinely hear the same words in both language, though of course Khmer is not tonal so the pronunciation can be different.

Examples of every day words that are the same in Thai and Khmer would be things like: here, this, nose, smart, hole, learn, etc. There are lots and lots of shared words. Don't take my word for it: http://womenlearnthai.com/index.php/...uence-in-thai/ As the article says though, this is a "sensitive subject" in Thailand. Face and all that, you know?

Then the word for your cock is the same in both Khmer and Lao (Isaan) too: it's "krador". How's that? Guess sex tourism has been going on long before the white man showed up!

I don't know if any of this will help you learn Thai enough to understand and be understood in Thailand. Probably your best bet would be to learn "Central Thai" which is just Thai, as that is taught all over the country. Learning another language like Tai Yai or Lao would depend on your situation.

Good luck.

[Syzygies]

Thailand has quite a few Dialects:

Central normal Thai (with a written script). Best to learn Central Standard Thai since you will then be understood throughout Thailand and Laos. Laos people watch Thai TV.

Southern Thai. Some different words and different pronunciation, e. G. Song and Saam (for 2 and 3) are rising toe in Thai but a weird form of sing song falling tone in Southern Thai.

Northern Thai. Again some differing vocab and differing pronunciation to central Thai. I have seen Lanna script on sign posts but can't read it. LOL.

Isaan (Ee-saan) dialect (North Eastern). Has no official script however is considered to be close to Laos language (which does have a script differing from Thai script- but semi readable). Again pronunciation varies and has special vocab. Different provinces have slightly different pronunciation as well.

Khmer (Kha-main) is actually an ancient Cambodian dialect, not very close to Thai at all, so Thai speakers can only understand a few words that happen to be in common. Spoken in Surin and Sisaket. This Khmer dialect is not well understood by people living in Cambodia, and visa versa, since is not close to modern Cambodian.

Suay is another language spoken in some Isaan regions.

Other minority dialects. See http://www.thai-language.com/id/590101.

Learn Thai first. Then can get a list of the most common words used in the dialect.

E. g. http://www.thai-language.com/id/590082.

Paiboon publishes some books on Thai dialects, however I found the way they show tones to be inconsistent and confusing like the author was confused too. Still useful to get some common vocab.

There are also rules for Consonant and vowel replacements that the dialect uses. E. g. Isaan "hak" replaces "rak" (meaning love).

By immersion you can get used to the different way the locals pronounce Isaan words.

When Isaan word is essentially same as a Thai word, but with different pronunciation, I write a script that describes the pronunciation, which can use Thai script altered or Romanised script. There is no official Isaan script. Too much effort to learn Laos script I think.

Learn simple phrases in the regional dialect so when hear them will understand.

Try to hear the tone and other variations from normal Thai and copy the simplest stuff.

If locals speak in Isaan, can be better to answer in normal Thai unless very confident of getting it right in the Isaan way.

It is hard to find a good teacher for a regional dialect. In my experience the locals pronounce words automatically with little technical understanding of the tones, since there is no written language equivalent. Subtleties of tones are hard to hear for the inexperienced (including myself), since not same as normal Thai tones. It is hard to find a teacher that really understands the dialect tones on a technical level.

Be prepared to take a significant time of immersion to get used to local dialects and improved understanding. Age is a barrier that slows you down. Just accept that an old brain is a stubborn one, and a lot of repetition is needed. My Isaan ability improves very slowly.

Some Thai girls from Surin can speak English, Thai, Isaan / Laos, Khmer, and Suay. Quite surprising.

[Tummen]

Thank you!

Your effort is appreciated!

[Syzygies]

There are five tones to learn in Thai:

Mid tone (slightly higher than normal for Farangs. Indians will have no trouble LOL). A difficult tone believe it or not.

Low tone (this comes very naturally for Farangs).

Falling tone. This is like putting a significant emphasis on a word (try banging your fist on the table while saying falling tone to make sure you stress it.).

High tone. Sounds start high and rises even further. This sounds like a querying tone at end of an English question sentence, but does not indicate a question at all.

Rising tone. The weird tone. Starts low then at the end of the syllable, the pitch rises sharply.

Say a Thai word with the wrong tone, and the meaning changes completely. Wrong vowel sound also changes the meaning.

Thai vowels are quite different to English and there are many vowel sounds. Vowels can be both long and short for most vowels. Difficult to master.
Vowel sound is everything in Thai words. Get the vowel sound wrong and you won't be understood that well at all, unless listener is very smart and used to farangs, or can guess by context. This is hard to get used to, since vowel sounds in English can vary by region of origin and it just does not matter.
There are not more than one way to pronounce Thai vowels correctly. Important to learn the vowels accurately. More important even than getting the tones right.

When Thais throw in English words into a sentence e. G. "File" (sounds like "fy") or "space" (sounded like "sa-bate"). I just don't understand them because the pronunciation is weird. It works the same in reverse. When we speak Thai with a weird pronunciation, it may not be understood.

Thai consonants are mostly similar to English with a few exceptions:
"ng" sound can appear on the front of a word.
"dt" is an unaspirated "t" sound with no puff of air. Similar to letter t on the end of the word "Start".
"bp" is an unasoirated "p" sound with no puff of air. Sounds like the "p" in word "stop".
"k" or "g" is an unaspirated "k" sound like at the end of the word "book". Also similar to a "g" but with less vibration.
"ph" is aspirated "p" same as normal English "p". Never an "f" e. G. Phuket is pronounced "Poo-get" (hard to get used to).
Pattaya is pronounced "Putt-ta-yar", Putt rhymes with Butt, never rhymes with Mat, and there is also never a sound like "Thai" in the middle.
I hate to hear stuff like "Patty-er" or Pa-Thai-ya". Even "Patts" grates, since has wrong vowel sound.
Thai "r" is a wide mouthed "r" not a narrow rounded mouth.
Thai "L" has no tongue flick on top teeth like in English.
These last two points can lead to us miss- hearing Thais.
They could say "Frame Tree" meaning actually "Flame tree".
Thai "aroi" means tasty, but could sound like "aloi" at times.

Some Thai words have two pronunciations to learn. The official pronunciation and the colloquial one.
Almost every Thai word that begins with "kl" (unaspirated k) is pronounced as "k" or "g" with the "L" being silent.
E. g. "klua" meaning afraid, is pronounced "gua" and "kluay" (banana) is pronounced "goo-way" (falling tone).
However if aspirated "kh" sound then any "L" is not dropped e. G. "Khlong" (a canal).
Many Thais change words starting "khw" to "f" sound, even though it shows being a bit uneducated:
"khwaa" meaning "to the right" becomes "faa" (rising tone).
"Sanyalagam" (surgeries) is sometimes pronounced "Sanya-gam" but more commonly the extra lazy way "Sai-ya-gam".

Thai schools tend to teach the official pronunciations. However need to request to be taught the colloquial way.
Without a teacher, pronunciation is too difficult to master.
I read that AAA Thai language school is very strict on pronunciation. That is good. You don't want to learn wrong pronunciation from the start and try to correct it later. You need to learn how mouth is shaped and what happens to the tongue etc.

The purpose of this article is to indicate that you can't really learn Thai in the beginning by yourself, if you want to be any good at all. A teacher needs to fix the pronunciation mistakes. A Farang person's ears are not tuned to hear the pronunciation errors.

It took me a long time to get the Girl's name "Ae" close to right. "Ae" is a misleading spelling as well, and "Aey" is even worse.
It sounds somewhere between "air" with no "are" sound and like "say" with no "s" and no "why" sound maybe like "eh".
Mouth is wide but quite closed up in vertical direction. I recall as a beginner I could just not hear that I was doing not quite right, by wrongly adding a 'why' sound to the end.

[Syzygies]

Introductory tips for what learning to speak Thai is all about, and how to do it in reasonable time. In future I will provide some useful phrases related to this forum. LOL.

Learn vocab and phrases useful to yourself relevant. What do you need to say at a food stall, shop, to the girl you want to fuck, about the service required in the MP. LOL.

Try to determine which words are extremely rude or foul language, so as not to use them at all, just like you would be wary to call someone a "c*nt" there are plenty of Thai words of varying degrees of crudeness. Better to be overly polite, than turn off the girl with very ugly way of using foul words. To a casual acquaintance, you can't use "hee" for pussy. It's too foul, probably even worse than "C*nt". Bargirls may use crude language but cannot expect to be able to copy their ugly phrases like "Ee dork", "ai sat", "ai Hia", "dtolae", "bpaak maa" etc.

Use it you must use the language you have learned so far, excepting the foul words. Talk to Thais who cannot speak English ideally.

When you understand the message you acquire the language. This is comprehension. You can't use words if the meaning is unknown or too vague to you.

You have to hear the language, not just read it. You have to learn to use muscles in your mouth to make the right new sounds. Language teaching that is too reading and writing oriented is no good. Forget about Thai script in the early stages. That can be learned latter quite easily. You learn to listen and speak first. Use Romanisation to write how words sound, for revision. Listen a lot. I watched Thai Soapies to listen to basic phrases so many times to get used to it at pace (this is for those past the real basics). You have to listen to things where you will understand at least a percentage of what is going on but 50% is good enough.

Have to be relaxed and curious. Don't worry for words not understood. I can also watch TV shows in German, as know the real basic words. Don't understand every word. No problem. Talk Thai to girls in the bar, MP, waitresses, etc. I see plenty of guys doing it, some with pronunciation a bit funny, but no worries.
Practice constructing phrases from words learned. Be happy to make mistakes.

Mostly Thais don't correct us, however be very accepting if your pronunciation is corrected. It is better to learn the right way to say it. Copy the mouth shapes of some Thai person saying the words or a video (or get teacher to demonstrate correct mouth movements).

Find a stickler to correct your mistakes but to allow you to make the mistakes. This is the official teacher.
Some teachers are very accepting of students making poor pronunciation, so that students enjoy the class more and feel they are achieving, however I am not really in favour of bad pronunciation being accepted too much. Pronunciation is your absolute keystone to the language and needs to be close to right at some point in the process. So don't delay to get your pronunciation corrected for too long. I hear of fancy people who learned several languages in just a few years, yet I can detect that their pronunciation is a bit off, for the languages I know something about. Maybe no one was correcting them sufficiently. No big deal. They can still be understood. Thais accept westernised pronunciation quite readily, but do strive to make your pronunciation as good as possible.

1000 words covers 85% of your Thai communication. 3000 words covers 98%.
If someone learned 10 new words per day (and revised 50 previously learned words or phrases; since a lot of repetition is required) it would be possible to acquire an 1800 word vocab in 6 months. That requires diligence and persistence. Normal persons will achieve much slower than that. Maybe took me 3 years to get to that. Learn simple basic words first, that are used so frequently. Make images in your mind for words.

Practice conversations in the shower, or when walking down the street talk to yourself (aloud), or with a teacher. You need drills to practise combining words into phrases. You won't know how the word sounds if don't actually say it out loud. Others will think you are mad. No problem. I used to practice while walking 2 km. To work. Ideally you need to practice and revise daily or as close to daily as possible.

Find a conversation buddy who cannot speak English at all well. This is a person who will have patience to try hard to understand, feedback how they understand what you said with correct Thai, will try to use basic easy words. This person takes the place of a parent teaching the child. LOL.
I spent many days early on, with a girl who could not speak English but was willing to speak Thai to me slowly and clearly. My Thai was forced to improve fast.

The "immersion" method does not really work. Some guys have lived in Thailand many years but still have not acquired much Thai because they are not being forced to communicate in Thai. You need to be conversing with Thais that cannot or will not use English. My GF cannot speak English to any great extent. So I am forced to use Thai regularly.

When making notes about Thai words or phrases, explain the meaning, a single English word is generally not enough to make the meaning absolutely clear.

There is a method of teaching Thai, called the natural method, where the teacher acts as a parent teaching a child, but speaks only Thai. I advise against this method. It takes too long to make any progress.