Kyiv

[Bimbo Boy]

First, have backup plans in case it doesn't workout with this 39 year old woman. You don't want to be stranded in Kiev by yourself. Before you go, arrange for plan be, see, the,.

Second, don't pre pay her hotel room yet. Yon can book it, but don't pay for it yet.

Thirdly, take her for a walk, maybe to a cafe, you'll need to know that she's genuine before you take her to an expensive restaurant.

Locals guys wouldn't simply take some girls to expensive restaurants without first having a sponsorship deal. No sex, no expensive dinner!

Just because you can afford a nice dinner doesn't mean you should. If you do that in Ukraine without demanding sex in return, she'll lose all respect for you.

It's a fucked up mentality I know. But you need to play hard ball with them. I learned it the hard way. Someone, I think it's Riina on the board says that if you accommodate them, you'll open yourself up for manipulation. Very well said. I'll also add that if you accommodate them, you'll bring out their worst behavior.

Treat them like dogs, if they lick your dick. Then you throw them a bone. If they don't play ball, kick them to the curb. Punish them. Now before anybody accuses me of being a *******, I can tell you I'm anything but. It's just the dynamics between local men and women. You must play hard ball with them. No mercy, make no exceptions. The only language they understand is strength.

And don't worry about offending them. Trust me, they're used to this treatment from local guys and expecting it from you. If you don't do it, they'll think you're a fool and will only try to extract money from you without fucking you.

Be tough, Michi! Now go score one for the team!

You are fucked up. You think like an accountant. No wonder that you have low returns on your efforts.

These girls are not meatholes. They are like any other girls all over the world.

[Bimbo Boy]

Hello all, I will visit Kiev in a few months and I just want to fuck a beautiful 25 year old Or younger Ukrainian girl. I don't want dinner or nice conversation, or a long courting process and I also don't want to book an escort blindly. I want to walk into a club, see a lineup of girls, pick the hottest one, and fuck her onsite. I'd appreciate a list of 3-4 clubs where I can do that. Rather not take her to my hotel either but if I must then ok. Don't care about money.

Then Kiev is not for you. Your best option is an FKK in Germany. This is exactly what you are looking for.

[HugeDickMan]

Hello all, I will visit Kiev in a few months and I just want to fuck a beautiful 25 year old Or younger Ukrainian girl. I don't want dinner or nice conversation, or a long courting process and I also don't want to book an escort blindly. I want to walk into a club, see a lineup of girls, pick the hottest one, and fuck her onsite. I'd appreciate a list of 3-4 clubs where I can do that. Rather not take her to my hotel either but if I must then ok. Don't care about money.

[Volpone]

Nonetheless, what extremely pisses me off is the Russian / Ukrainian mindset. If you invite a girl to simething (e. G. The current situation: I invited her to come down from Kiev to Odessa) then it means that you pay for EVERYTHING! She does not even pay for the minibus or or diner. Nothing, absolutely nothing! TTF is this?! I feel discriminated. I must say, she says everytime "thank you" for diner etc (which another girl would not) and yet, paying small things by herself would be nice.

That's normal in Ukraine and not only there. In many countries in South America and Asia, it works that way. However what you do with that girl from Kiev is more dating than mongering. That's why also many guys don't waste their time with dating. You can spend a lot and getting nothing at all. Use Mamba or call an escort. With some luck and lots of work, you might have a good time.

[Michi T]

First, have backup plans in case it doesn't workout with this 39 year old woman. You don't want to be stranded in Kiev by yourself. Before you go, arrange for plan be, see, the,.

Second, don't pre pay her hotel room yet. Yon can book it, but don't pay for it yet.

Thirdly, take her for a walk, maybe to a cafe, you'll need to know that she's genuine before you take her to an expensive restaurant.

Locals guys wouldn't simply take some girls to expensive restaurants without first having a sponsorship deal. No sex, no expensive dinner!

Just because you can afford a nice dinner doesn't mean you should. If you do that in Ukraine without demanding sex in return, she'll lose all respect for you.

It's a fucked up mentality I know. But you need to play hard ball with them. I learned it the hard way. Someone, I think it's Riina on the board says that if you accommodate them, you'll open yourself up for manipulation. Very well said. I'll also add that if you accommodate them, you'll bring out their worst behavior.

Treat them like dogs, if they lick your dick. Then you throw them a bone. If they don't play ball, kick them to the curb. Punish them. Now before anybody accuses me of being a *******, I can tell you I'm anything but. It's just the dynamics between local men and women. You must play hard ball with them. No mercy, make no exceptions. The only language they understand is strength.

And don't worry about offending them. Trust me, they're used to this treatment from local guys and expecting it from you. If you don't do it, they'll think you're a fool and will only try to extract money from you without fucking you.

Be tough, Michi! Now go score one for the team!

Kiev-ODESSA adventure.

Thank's Jonathan for all these instructions. I may try it with a s l you t t why girl. The one from Kiev is a very very modest and humble girl and I just cannot do such things to her. She actually wants to find a man for getting married and create a family. She is also religious. That explains why she wanted to have her own hotel room. I booked the cheapest possible rooms for both of us, around 15 $ per night, so no big issue with that. And she tries hard to please me.

The said truth is that she does not sexually attract me. I do not want to have any sex with her and I do not even try it. She is not ugly, though. Really too bad, really. If I would want to find a honest and humble wife, she could be a good choice.

Nonetheless, what extremely pisses me off is the Russian / Ukrainian mindset. If you invite a girl to simething (e. G. The current situation: I invited her to come down from Kiev to Odessa) then it means that you pay for EVERYTHING! She does not even pay for the minibus or or diner. Nothing, absolutely nothing! TTF is this?! I feel discriminated. I must say, she says everytime "thank you" for diner etc (which another girl would not) and yet, paying small things by herself would be nice.

GENERAL ADVISE.

As I undrstand from Jonathan, a man (and in particular a monger) must be a jerk when he deals with Ukrainian / Russian girls, right? Another monger advised to treat a girl with respect. What does it mean in the end? When I see a gem on the street, I approach her, be very nice and highliy professional (e. G. "Hi, I just saw you at the other side of the street, may I ask you if. " then on the first meeting go for a walk and then decide where to go for diner. During the walk I will ask her directly "let's make a deal: I will invite you to restaurant xxx, but as a return, I expecxt you to come with me to my hotel to have sex! Can / should I ask such a question? In western culture I could never behave like that.

ADVICE 1 - Girl from Odessa.

I actually have a nice s l you t t why girl's number, telling her how beautiful she is and how much she confused me the other day on the street. At the time being she does "not know" if she wants to come for dinner on Sunday. Next steps from my side?

ADVICE 2 - Girl from Chisinau.

On my last visit in Chisinau I met a real gem in the bus. She has an beautiful face, sexy feet and AMAZING big (saggy / natural) tits, just amazing! And she is fluent in English. We have been exchanging Viper messages for a while. I told her that I will come to Odessa and that I want to meet with her. She never said "no" but she also never said "yes". She always said "nice", "I am happy*, "I will try" etc. Now, since I am here, I need to know what is fact. She told me today that she is in the process of divorce and that before end of October she does not want to date anyone "because she is a correct girl" On the same time she wrote me that it would be nice if I would come to visit her in October because it is her birthday. WTF is going on her? Finally, when I told her that I am in Odessa because of HER (and not beause of Odessa), she also wrote me that I don't have any reason to be angry now and I should have asked her and not simply planned. Though, she appreciates my gessture very much.

Next stept? Is there still a chance (to fuck her tits and to be a jerk) or should I give up? I know from experience that Moldovan girls are very hard to get and that a second or third visit often pays off.

[Volpone]

Yeah, sadly it's become a pervasive business model of throwing shit on the wall and hoping for something to stick by the agencies. Quality girls nowadays have enough local sponsorship opportunities by guys they might even like.

Riina is absolutely right about the fact that they "have enough local sponsorship opportunities". I notice that when I was there as you can see young girls with some younger boyfriends well dressed and good looking. What's the point to waste time with a foreigner that don't really understand them as well as their fellow countrymen and that will just stay there a few days or a few weeks. I've just seen my favorite one, that I got from mamba, a real pearl, well she has a new Ukrainian boyfriend. I am not sure she will be interested in meeting with me next time I am in Kiev.

Furthermore don't forget that nearly nobody in Ukraine is impressed if you come from the USA or Western Europe, that was the case 20 years ago, but time changes.

[Vindi1]

How do you guys broach the subject on here? I've put my settings to show that I'm willing to sponsor, but I'm not sure how to get concrete rates. Would anyone mind sharing their canned message?

Thanks.

[Riina]

Anyway, back to Ukrainian girls, I never mistreat them, but I am decisive outside the bedroom and certainly dominant in the bedroom. It is the only way they will give you good sex. So, do not be rude, but do not be a pushover either. They actually appreciate a polite but forceful man; for them it is a break from the Ukrainian assholes they usually meet.

Well summed up.

[Riina]

Kiev this year is definitely worse than last year, price wise and quality wise, IMHO.

You may think you get a better deal because of the better exchange rate, but you are WRONG! The girls, especially the better looking ones quote prices in dollars or Euros, 100 $, 200 $.

Lots of agencies pretend to be girls, bait and switch. You've got to be really careful.

For people who want quick P 4 P, pros seem to be the only viable option this year unless you are into old be's, women in their 40's and up; so you might as well go elsewhere, where the pastures are greener.

Don't even mention all the scams that are going around as many have pointed out on this forum.

Think about it for a moment: Is it worth the time, money and the trouble to come here to Kiev for sex?

Good luck to you all. (Blink).

Yeah, sadly it's become a pervasive business model of throwing shit on the wall and hoping for something to stick by the agencies. Quality girls nowadays have enough local sponsorship opportunities by guys they might even like.

[Stevie69]

I fully agree. It is hard for us, given our background, to act that way. We have been taught to respect women too much. Whereas that might be necessary at the workplace or with strangers, but not when you are in a relationship, long or short. When you get to the bedroom, even more so, particularly for Eastern European Women. Western women are too brainwashed by feminism, and even if they enjoy the private time, might regret it the next day, or week, or year. Read up on the trial of Ghomeshi in Canada. The guy liked rough sex, and the girls liked it, until they talked with their girlfriends and reasserted their feminist ideals. Luckily, he persevered in court, but lost his job, and lost his status in society.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ling-1.3504250

Anyway, back to Ukrainian girls, I never mistreat them, but I am decisive outside the bedroom and certainly dominant in the bedroom. It is the only way they will give you good sex. So, do not be rude, but do not be a pushover either. They actually appreciate a polite but forceful man; for them it is a break from the Ukrainian assholes they usually meet.

First, have backup plans in case it doesn't workout with this 39 year old woman. You don't want to be stranded in Kiev by yourself. Before you go, arrange for plan be, see, the,.

Second, don't pre pay her hotel room yet. Yon can book it, but don't pay for it yet.

Thirdly, take her for a walk, maybe to a cafe, you'll need to know that she's genuine before you take her to an expensive restaurant.

Locals guys wouldn't simply take some girls to expensive restaurants without first having a sponsorship deal. No sex, no expensive dinner!

Just because you can afford a nice dinner doesn't mean you should. If you do that in Ukraine without demanding sex in return, she'll lose all respect for you...

[Uoykucf]

Kiev this year is definitely worse than last year, price wise and quality wise, IMHO.

You may think you get a better deal because of the better exchange rate, but you are WRONG! The girls, especially the better looking ones quote prices in dollars or Euros, 100 $, 200 $.

Lots of agencies pretend to be girls, bait and switch. You've got to be really careful.

For people who want quick P 4 P, pros seem to be the only viable option this year unless you are into old be's, women in their 40's and up; so you might as well go elsewhere, where the pastures are greener.

Don't even mention all the scams that are going around as many have pointed out on this forum.

Think about it for a moment: Is it worth the time, money and the trouble to come here to Kiev for sex?

Good luck to you all. (Blink).

[Uoykucf]

I am into only young girls.

I've been here 6 days already, but I haven't found anything that excites me in the up to $100 range!

Only average looking girls next door types around this price range, usually short, small built, too thin, a bit overweight or big built, nothing comes close to standard model figure; so no sex for me yet.

If I have to shell out more than that or have sex with averaging looking girls, I might as well just stay home, where things are better and cheaper.

If I were a sex tourist here (which I am not) , I wouldn't have stayed, and would not come back because there are better pastures elsewhere.

[Jojosun]

What does it mean for a first meeting? I western Europe I am always charming, opening the door, asking what the woman wants to eat and drink, listen to her, do not interrupt her, etc.

Would I have to act differently in Ukraine? Can you please describe?

Hi Mitchi,

Before you start with anything else. You didn't mention kissing her hand at your first meeting, looking straight into her eyes and in a sexy voice tell her.

"— after all, one must start somewhere" LOL.

[Jonathan Pine]

First, have backup plans in case it doesn't workout with this 39 year old woman. You don't want to be stranded in Kiev by yourself. Before you go, arrange for plan be, see, the,.

Second, don't pre pay her hotel room yet. Yon can book it, but don't pay for it yet.

Thirdly, take her for a walk, maybe to a cafe, you'll need to know that she's genuine before you take her to an expensive restaurant.

Locals guys wouldn't simply take some girls to expensive restaurants without first having a sponsorship deal. No sex, no expensive dinner!

Just because you can afford a nice dinner doesn't mean you should. If you do that in Ukraine without demanding sex in return, she'll lose all respect for you.

It's a fucked up mentality I know. But you need to play hard ball with them. I learned it the hard way. Someone, I think it's Riina on the board says that if you accommodate them, you'll open yourself up for manipulation. Very well said. I'll also add that if you accommodate them, you'll bring out their worst behavior.

Treat them like dogs, if they lick your dick. Then you throw them a bone. If they don't play ball, kick them to the curb. Punish them. Now before anybody accuses me of being a *******, I can tell you I'm anything but. It's just the dynamics between local men and women. You must play hard ball with them. No mercy, make no exceptions. The only language they understand is strength.

And don't worry about offending them. Trust me, they're used to this treatment from local guys and expecting it from you. If you don't do it, they'll think you're a fool and will only try to extract money from you without fucking you.

Be tough, Michi! Now go score one for the team!

[Putologist]

But just to have a expensive dinner, give good tips etc. All of these are fine, but by the end of the day NO guarantee for a bang if she isn't a pro.

LMR is very wide spread among Russians / Ukrainians.