Non-Pro Garotas - Opinions & Advice

[Spidy]

I didn't take Spidy's post to mean that he would "settle" for an old, broken down, ex-pro. No, I took it more as he would consider both ex-pros and non-pros equally, partially because he doesn't want to be a hypocrite...

Exactly my point.

...And what's wrong with being a hypocrite? Well, that's one of those where my thought is, "If you don't know that already". Shrugs..

We've all been guilty of this, but admitting to it is another story.

... And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing?

Well, I did entitle my post "ex-Mongerer in the Mirror".

[Spidy]

That does not sound like you are trying not to be a hypocrite, but more like you feel guilty and will accept an old hooker to be your mate for absolution ...

Doesn't really make sense to me and my so called "guilt", but Okay. First with regards to my "guilt", don't infer, what isn't there. If I was to pursue for a "meaningful" relationship, trust and honesty are two of the basic foundational pillars of a relationship, that I would look for, whether she be a hot 8+ hottie or a one-eyed peg leg lady.

Get what you want. Don't get something on the basis that it will make you feel less guilty or less of a hypocrite ...

Second, your level of consideration for me is very touching. The fact that you would show such regards me for "getting what I want", is so very touching.

If I should find that elusive old, one-eyed, one-leg hooker with 3-kids, then that is entirely my choice, if she happens to tick all of my relationship boxes I require.

Absolution....hmmmm!

Third, well I guess that depends on your point of view. Perhaps it is you who is trying to find absolution with a "non-pro" and you who is hiding a life long guilt, for fucking hoards of hookers, from all around the world?

If mongerers don't feel "guilty" about fucking women for money, why should a women feel "guilty" working and fucking for her money, in a past life.

[Xpartan]

I think about it differently and I know what I'm talking about.

Brazilian girls know full well and expect that gringo dudes who travel in Brazil are in the hobby. If you were to tell her that "no!" she knew you were lying, so why beat around the Bush? I have (or more like had) a very good girl from whom I learned so much, who never herself was in this, but she knew tons of girls who are. Man the stories she would tell. All but what she thinks the WGs are charging is very interesting. When it comes to her idea of what they charge, it is oddly completely off. I think what happens is that the WGs are bragging how much they charge, and in reality they aren't.

Anyway, no need to lie about it. In fact you should be straight forward, and shake out some of that feminist nonsense about "equality". I have been there caught up in this myself, but there is no point of believing in bullshit but in your own life choices equivocating your own pretended beliefs.

First off, it's not true. "Normal" tourists still come to Brazil and for a good reason -- there are plenty to see. But an even better way is to tell them you're on a business trip and come frequently (do some research on the net to back up your story).

Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO.

Now, with a working girl or semi-pro, there is no reason to lie. Quite the opposite, they need to be made aware that you know the scene.

Seriously, why not just enjoy the best fun city in the world? Mongering and committed relationships don't mix (in my limited experience).

[The Cane]

That does not sound like you are trying not to be a hypocrite, but more like you feel guilty and will accept an old hooker to be your mate for absolution. Just because you have one leg does not mean you have to accept a lady missing 1 leg and one arm to be your mate. Just because you have 1 kid does not mean you need to accept a woman with 3 kids to be your mate.

Get what you want. Don't get something on the basis that it will make you feel less guilty or less of a hypocrite. You are the one that has to live with it and it is not like you are going to run around telling people you chose an old hooker because you did not want to be a hypocrite so they can pat you on the back. Nobody will know but you. And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing?

I didn't take Spidy's post to mean that he would "settle" for an old, broken down, ex-pro. No, I took it more as he would consider both ex-pros and non-pros equally, partially because he doesn't want to be a hypocrite. And what's wrong with being a hypocrite? Well, that's one of those where my thought is, "If you don't know that already". Shrugs.

[Stinky Squid]

...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?

I think about it differently and I know what I'm talking about.

Brazilian girls know full well and expect that gringo dudes who travel in Brazil are in the hobby. If you were to tell her that "no!" she knew you were lying, so why beat around the Bush? I have (or more like had) a very good girl from whom I learned so much, who never herself was in this, but she knew tons of girls who are. Man the stories she would tell. All but what she thinks the WGs are charging is very interesting. When it comes to her idea of what they charge, it is oddly completely off. I think what happens is that the WGs are bragging how much they charge, and in reality they aren't.

Anyway, no need to lie about it. In fact you should be straight forward, and shake out some of that feminist nonsense about "equality". I have been there caught up in this myself, but there is no point of believing in bullshit but in your own life choices equivocating your own pretended beliefs.

Here is how this works: it is extremely hard to reform a puta. Unless you "saved" her early in the game. Once she is experienced, she is no longer LTR material except if you expect the LTR to have a set expiration date of a year or two. If you prepare yourself what's coming and are fine with it, then it's fine. I mean, just listen to the notoriously infamous "Ins Brasil" and her German husband who apparently was fine with her being the most famous working girl of Munich or wherever she lived then. If you want wifey material then that's definitely not going to work out.

Now as for us men, the thing is different. I believe all men have it in themselves to want to sample variety. And while monger types will have less scruples with that I think men who want a committed relationship can pick one (and picking the one they really want can come from a better place of understanding then) and they can start falling in love and just focus on the one they choose. IMO where that breaks down with men is when she starts to become difficult and withdraws and withholds and has "headaches" or other bullshit. That is where men start wandering off. But with women it seems different. Once they lose that magic they have a very hard time to come back to develop some focus on one husband.

So no, there is no equality here. And the issue isn't the past, the issue is how the past affects the future. There is a reason why in ancient law (whether secular or Biblical or Koranic law) "adultery" was defined as sex with a woman married to someone else. I can lecture on this, it is true. This is not some patriarchy oppression (insert whining here) bullshit, it simply makes sense from a deep understanding of the biologic and evolutional psychology point of view and the difference between herd animals and human civilization. . To make a long story short, as for how to deal with a Brazilian GF:

You can be straight with her. Be straight and do not try to lie (she knows) and especially do not lie to yourself. Make sure you quarantine for some time and do a complete check, including HPV, herpes, clamydia, aside from the more infamous STDs. Then go into that one girl only and consider what it takes for you to stick to that one. Unless you negotiate some "open relationship", which is probably not then a real good LTR, then you should look at the prospect of not fooling around anymore. You should have it out of your system then. This doesn't mean you need to be guilty nor play a part in this endless anti-male propaganda that women are full of (as if men are the only ones who cheat or let the relationship down.) You have to lead that relationship right so that you catch hick-ups early on and correct them before they fester. And in the process you might find out that the "R" wasn't to last that much of "LT" as you hoped.

Another thing to keep in mind when moving from the mongering field to the relationship. Good women will want to establish a stable home and children. Think about this. You cannot deny a girl the wish for children. She may think she doesn't want to until she hits 30 and then it will explode. It is not fair if you make a girl promise you she'll be fine without children just as it is not fair for a woman to make a man promise her that he'll be fine with timid lights-out sex once a week. It just doesn't work. Even just for the sake of the children, then, marriage is the thing you should look into. This also means a pre-nup. That idea needs to be talked about within the first two years of an LTR. If marriage takes some time to get paperwork together, you can go ahead with declaring an uniao estavel (civil union) at any cartorio on a walk in basis. All that's required is ID. In that, you should choose "separcao total de bens" right up front (and have a conversation about this way earlier). You should in such a contract consider building on the basis of total asset separation and add back fair consideration of her needs in contingencies. Many relationships fail and hard to put all blame on one side. But lack of a hard asset separation is a risk factor for early rent-seeking by the woman. You must absolutely secure her from your heirs though, there are many stories where the female companions of decades find themselves booted out from the marital home and basically thrown into the gutter by the heirs of the deceased man. You should also promise her some level of security over time, such as her own assets that build up over time from your contributions.

Plan for reality with open eyes and a good heart, and live your life to the fullest extent!

[The Cane]

Yes, that's right I said ex-pro (or better yet ex-semi-pro). We all have "history" and I'm not trying to be a hypocrite. Look, when you hold up the mirror to yourself, there are definitely some uncomfortable truths and questions that arise. So I don't plan on being a hypocrite and can't judge a woman's past history too harshly, if I can't hold my own past up to the same level of scrutiny.

That's true. Fair is fair. And if you truly feel that way, then you are a better person than many. Because there are plenty, both men and women, who would "excuse" themselves while judging other people harshly. This is all related to one reason why I got tired of traditional dating. I met too many women who wanted things that they themselves could not give or would not give. I got fed up with feeling like I had to constantly be kissing ass just to get somebody to be with me, while they didn't seem to think they needed to do much of anything, except ask a bunch of obtrusive, condescending, offensive questions. I remember being on one date and finally asking, "Is this a date or an inquisition"? She was extremely embarrassed, but that's what she deserved. Talking down to me. Nope!

One time, a long time ago, I was involved in a serious relationship with an ex-prostitute. The interesting thing is that it was well before I would have considered myself to be a "monger". We were so compatible in so many ways. And to this day, I can honestly say that she was the best girlfriend in bed that I have ever had LOL. She knew just what to do and say, and how to please me. In another place and time, we would have married. But, it wasn't meant to be. I broke up with her, and it wasn't just because she had been a prostitute. There were other factors to consider, which led me conclude that it wouldn't work in the long term. To make a long story short, I broke her heart. She became angry and bitter, and eventually returned to prostitution. Once a tute, always a tute. And once a monger, always a monger!

[Mr Enternational]

I haven't yet totally given up on the possibility of finding a "meaningful" (ie. trusting and honest) relationship with a non-pro or ex-pro woman.

Yes, that's right I said ex-pro (or better yet ex-semi-pro). We all have "history" and I'm not trying to be a hypocrite.

That does not sound like you are trying not to be a hypocrite, but more like you feel guilty and will accept an old hooker to be your mate for absolution. Just because you have one leg does not mean you have to accept a lady missing 1 leg and one arm to be your mate. Just because you have 1 kid does not mean you need to accept a woman with 3 kids to be your mate.

Get what you want. Don't get something on the basis that it will make you feel less guilty or less of a hypocrite. You are the one that has to live with it and it is not like you are going to run around telling people you chose an old hooker because you did not want to be a hypocrite so they can pat you on the back. Nobody will know but you. And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing?

[Spidy]

Somethings are better left unsaid as nothing good can come from revealing them.

That is so true. Excellent advice!

Now that is an all time GREAT answer. You got me...I wasn't expecting such a poignant answer. Very succinct, balanced and cuts to the chase.

...for me personally none of this is an issue because I'm not interested in a "meaningful relationship" with a non-pro woman. I've had several of those, and I'm happier in my personal life as a committed monger.

Crane, you definitely bring an unwavering level of clarity to your game, that is admirable. At the moment, I too fall into this category, but with fickle heart, I haven't yet totally given up on the possibility of finding a "meaningful" (ie. trusting and honest) relationship with a non-pro or ex-pro woman.

Yes, that's right I said ex-pro (or better yet ex-semi-pro). We all have "history" and I'm not trying to be a hypocrite.

Look, when you hold up the mirror to yourself, there are definitely some uncomfortable truths and questions that arise. So I don't plan on being a hypocrite and can't judge a woman's past history too harshly, if I can't hold my own past up to the same level of scrutiny.

[The Cane]

...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?

Somethings are better left unsaid as nothing good can come from revealing them. That said (no pun is intended), for me personally none of this is an issue because I'm not interested in a "meaningful relationship" with a non-pro woman. I've had several of those, and I'm happier in my personal life as a committed monger.

[Spidy]

Easy solution is to stop trying to date hookers and find a normal girlfriend. ... I have been with my girlfriend for 4 years and she has never asked me for shit. . . .

The point of this missive is that Mr. E was spot on right, stop trying to find a meaningful relationship with hookers. Or ex hookers.

...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?

[Exec Talent]

There are women who come to Brazil, especially during Carnaval, with the same idea that we have except they do not intend to pay. Here is how that plays out, at least for me: She may be alone or with a couple of like minded friends. They have seen or heard about the well-built Brazilian guys and have their sights set. However, what they did not plan on was how few of those guys speak English or just how intimidating it can be when you are in another country. This is where you step in. You know Rio, you know Portuguese, you know how to be both naughty and nice. I hooked up with a dentist from Mexico whom I met at the hotel breakfast. Smile, be friendly, let them hear you speak Portuguese to the locals. The dentist actually approached me. Also, do not overlook the benefits from being liked by the hotel staff. Even in Brazil they are not going to give you someone's room number, but they will tell you if they have seen a man with that attractive woman waiting in the lobby. I hooked up with a Chinese tourist in Australia by scheduling the same tour. Be creative and adventurous. Do be sure to wear flame retardant clothing, because there will be some crashing and burning. But, of course, we all know they were lesbians. Think this way, what have you got to lose. If you get shot down, happiness is only a hot Brazilian away.

[Exec Talent]

Looking back at this discussion of approaching non-pros, keep in mind Brazilian girls generally like flirtation. The problem is many of you have no game at all. If you have no game back home, you likely don't have any game in Brazil. I'm not saying you have to be young and handsome. You just have to know how to start a conversation with an attractive female without looking and drooling with monger eyes.

The girls who aren't interested will take the flirtation as a compliment and let you down politely. The girls who are open to foreign connections and some side money will also appreciate that you are treating them as a regular, attractive woman with respect.

I used to take strippers home because I was the only guy who actually looked at them as a person. I would sit near the stage and never look anywhere but their face, especially their eyes. Same when I approached them to tip them. Women can smell desperation and quickly weed out the losers.

[Mr Enternational]

"In other monger countries its still possible to just talk to a random hot girl in the streets and the chances are high that she is willing to go with you?"

If pimpin was that easy then everybody would be doing it. In the words of a friend of mine, "That country don't exist. " In my day I have met plenty of normal chicks and ended up fucking them the same night. Most of those times it was not even planned, it just ended up happening. In none of those times have I or have I intended to walk outside, meet som random chick, and go back to the room to fuck her. At the times that I have fucked some random stranger that fast it has been mostly luck. Now I have plenty of game, but aa you said walking outside premeditatingly picking up some random chick to fuck is extremely improbable.

[Sperto]

"In other monger countries its still possible to just talk to a random hot girl in the streets and the chances are high that she is willing to go with you?"
I prefer not to clutter the Rio thread. It would be great if any gringo could go to Brazil and pick-up any girl on the streets, just because he's a gringo. Is that probable? No!

You probably know the feeling. After the first hours in Rio you've accustomed to the smell of maresia from the sea mixtured with the smell of pea. The first week you go smiling to every second bubble butt girl on the street feeling like you´re in heaven. Some girls smile back and flirt and others not. After the first week you don't have to break your neck just to look at all the asses passing by.

Face facts. In Brazil the girls doesn't miss the attention of men. If a beautiful girl pass on the street, every guy/man between young/very old will look and do the psiu-psiu. The girls may appreciate it but it's not a new sensation to them. It takes something more. In my experience I know blond/blue eyed helps a lot. Nonetheless, I have many amigas that I know prefer much more dark skinned guys. It's not about the skin colour. The majority of the cariocas might be curious of gringos but not desperate of getting to know someone. Don't forget that many of the Brazilian guys knows the game much better than you and knows how to keep in shape. If you're out of shape, too old and know no Portuguese you are no longer in the game. Just as it doesn't save you if you know Portuguese, but luck charm and have a big belly.

As many have said before, if you doesn't score easily back home you shouldn't expect too much with non'pro's in Brazil.

I´ve seen some old veterans with <20+ experience in Brazil, good Portuguese, knows the game, no charm but with very good skills to manipulate. They do manage in Brazil. It's not always beautiful but they do get laid even though it takes a lot of theatre. Often it's quite sad.

I've also seen some buddies without almost no skills of Portuguese but with great physics and a lot of charm who got laid with all the top girls. In the Help era some of these guys entered Help and the top 20 girls were literally fighting to get laid with these guys for free. These guys scored girls back home with the same ease.

I love working girls and even more regular girls. If it wasn't for the regular girls in Brazil i would stop going there. My only advice with regular girls, accept for staying fit and learn the language, is to do like the local guys. Flirt everywhere. It doesn't matter if you´re on the beach bus, supermarket, bank, church or whatever, just flirt. When you've reached the stage where you have brazilian friends, guys or girls, it will be even easier.

[Mr Enternational]

I've had great success on especially Cupid. Setting up to meet many cool non pros each visit-keeping some on the books for future visits etc-if anything I can get many more girls with my games that way than meeting 2/3 out and about

I have had much success as well online with chicks from around the world. One key thing it does is give a chick enough time to get comfortable with you. And it was really great back in the startup days before everyone was doing it, because she would really feel special that you were coming from the other side of the world just to see her. Mongers and hookers have pretty much ruined how it was on the sites back when, but there is still plenty on offer.