Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[Pistons]

I am almost starting to believe that the spike in corona virus cases in Germany is a hoax too these days.

Take for instance the outbreak at the slaughter house in Bielefeld. Well, as it apparently goes, Bielefeld does not even exist.

Look at it this way:

1. Do you know anyone from Bielefeld?

2. Have you ever been to Bielefeld?

3. Do you know anyone who has ever been to Bielefeld?

[Mursenary]

I would say confirmation bias weighs more heavily than intellectual laziness. If someone is emotionally invested, they seek out only evidence that corroborates their beliefs, and discard the rest. Therefore two people can look at the same evidence, and arrive at different conclusions (we even see this even in the clubs). Here is a story about 68 yo physics professor who met a Czech bikini model (or more accurately some scammer posing as a Bikini model) who got duped into being a drug mule. Even while he sat in prison, he still clung to hope that this would "all be sorted out" and that he and his bikini model girlfriend, who he never met, could finally be together. As you touched on in one of your previous posts, his delusion was partly based on the need to "feel special". This caused him to have a tenuous grip on reality:

An American psychologist administered IQ tests to the twenty or so defendants at the Nuremberg trial. The average score was about two standard deviations higher than average. I suppose someone could be be intellectually gifted and lazy with regard to educating themselves on specific issues, but I tend to believe that there were other reasons. Also, I think there are situations where it is permissible to be intellectually lazy. For example, Hitler, who most would consider a narcissist, overestimated his own abilities as a military strategist. If he had deferred to the experts and the advice of his field marshalls, perhaps Germany would have won the war.

Yeah, I think I used the term personal reckoning, or lack thereof, which is along the same line as confirmation bias.

Not sure we should use your Hitler example as example for being intellectually lazy. His actions were clouded in pride and narcissism rather than an example of using intelligence. The intelligent thing to do would have been to defer people with more expertise, not sure that would be a case of green lighting intellectual laziness. But yes, you don't have to be "on" all the time. I certainly am not.

[Mursenary]

Before social media there was talk radio. I am not minimizing the power of internet in exerting influence on people, but we are talking about conspiracy theories which by definition are extreme views and in my view the people inclined to subscribe to conspiracy theories on a constant basis are already somewhat kooky and congregate with like minded people on social forums. BTW, I don't think you meant it that way, but there is not sufficient equivalence between Nazis and their enablers in 1930's, Trumpers or trump voters, and people against prostitution. Nazis were just monsters, we all know. Trump voters were almost 50% of US and even if you don't agree with them, can't say that 50% of this country is super extreme. Well you can say it, but they would say the same about you / me, and then it descends into an endless squabble. Roughly half the people I know in my personal and professional life are GOPers or Dems, and if I set their political views aside, all of them are not any different from normal. Finally, people can have a lot of reasons to be against prostitution. Yes, I partake in paid sex and I reject their views, but they are entitled to their views. Also, some girls could very well be victims. I occasionally read vague references to lover boys, pimps and other stuff on this site itself. Who knows the complete truth. I know I don't. My view on this is a bit like I enjoy my steak but don't want the cow slaughtered in front of me.

I think internet platforms are a league up from talk radio as it lets the user more easily actively participate. That makes it even easier for people to subscribe to off the wall ideas. Grandmas and bored housewives can scroll a facebook feed, see some propaganda video, see real people commenting, and believe that there is a real significant community that gives credence to whatever message. It's a positive feedback loop.

Not all Trumpers are conspiracy theorists, but hell yes I am comparing Trumpers to Nazi enablers.

[McAdonis]

I think you are underestimating the power of herd mentality. Like I keep saying, most people are intellectually lazy and even when things do not make logical sense, they will fall in line. Most people think prostitution is wrong, calling the girl a victim, we know this is more often not the case. Nazis scapegoated all Jews, we know that the average Jew had no part in the economics state of 1920's Germany. Most Trumpers, prostitution opponents, 1930's Germans are / were not crazy. Yet, herd mentality allows bullshit beliefs to propagate. Digital technology just makes it that much easier.

I would say confirmation bias weighs more heavily than intellectual laziness. If someone is emotionally invested, they seek out only evidence that corroborates their beliefs, and discard the rest. Therefore two people can look at the same evidence, and arrive at different conclusions (we even see this even in the clubs). Here is a story about 68 yo physics professor who met a Czech bikini model (or more accurately some scammer posing as a Bikini model) who got duped into being a drug mule. Even while he sat in prison, he still clung to hope that this would "all be sorted out" and that he and his bikini model girlfriend, who he never met, could finally be together. As you touched on in one of your previous posts, his delusion was partly based on the need to "feel special". This caused him to have a tenuous grip on reality:

"A total of three psychological evaluations were presented at the trial, and two agreed that he had the traits of a narcissistic personality an overblown and unrealistic image of himself. One concluded that it did not constitute a pathology, while the other suggested that there were pathological aspects to his narcissism that led to gaps in his understanding of reality."

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/magazine/the-professor-the-bikini-model-and-the-suitcase-full-of-trouble.html

An American psychologist administered IQ tests to the twenty or so defendants at the Nuremberg trial. The average score was about two standard deviations higher than average. I suppose someone could be be intellectually gifted and lazy with regard to educating themselves on specific issues, but I tend to believe that there were other reasons. Also, I think there are situations where it is permissible to be intellectually lazy. For example, Hitler, who most would consider a narcissist, overestimated his own abilities as a military strategist. If he had deferred to the experts and the advice of his field marshalls, perhaps Germany would have won the war.

[Pessimist]

I think you are underestimating the power of herd mentality. Like I keep saying, most people are intellectually lazy and even when things do not make logical sense, they will fall in line. Most people think prostitution is wrong, calling the girl a victim, we know this is more often not the case. Nazis scapegoated all Jews, we know that the average Jew had no part in the economics state of 1920's Germany. Most Trumpers, prostitution opponents, 1930's Germans are / were not crazy. Yet, herd mentality allows bullshit beliefs to propagate. Digital technology just makes it that much easier.

Before social media there was talk radio. I am not minimizing the power of internet in exerting influence on people, but we are talking about conspiracy theories which by definition are extreme views and in my view the people inclined to subscribe to conspiracy theories on a constant basis are already somewhat kooky and congregate with like minded people on social forums. BTW, I don't think you meant it that way, but there is not sufficient equivalence between Nazis and their enablers in 1930's, Trumpers or trump voters, and people against prostitution. Nazis were just monsters, we all know. Trump voters were almost 50% of US and even if you don't agree with them, can't say that 50% of this country is super extreme. Well you can say it, but they would say the same about you / me, and then it descends into an endless squabble. Roughly half the people I know in my personal and professional life are GOPers or Dems, and if I set their political views aside, all of them are not any different from normal. Finally, people can have a lot of reasons to be against prostitution. Yes, I partake in paid sex and I reject their views, but they are entitled to their views. Also, some girls could very well be victims. I occasionally read vague references to lover boys, pimps and other stuff on this site itself. Who knows the complete truth. I know I don't. My view on this is a bit like I enjoy my steak but don't want the cow slaughtered in front of me.

[Mursenary]

As for internet and radicalization, etc. Internet and social media may be amplifying and accelerating some trends but if one is so easily inclined to readily subscribe to crazy conspiracy theories, I would not be rationalizing their craziness by blaming it on technology. This goes back to the victimhood complex, or others wanting to see victims when there are only crazies. For instance, this QAnon stuff. Apparently a whole bunch of people believe a guy called Q will come up as a messiah and clean up this world. This bunch also believes some really weird stuff per media reports, including that Bill Gates is a vampire And drinks children's blood or that Bill Gates wants to put a chip in everybody and control them and so on. Occasionally, I see one of these guys even post in WSJ comments, and it is a publication where the average subscriber has an annual income of $160,000. Hardly someone that you would call marginalized or left behind. My point: if someone is crazy enough to jettison common sense and a rational brain and subscribe to obviously outlandish and bizarre ideas, it is because that person is crazy and not because of technology or this and that.

I think you are underestimating the power of herd mentality. Like I keep saying, most people are intellectually lazy and even when things do not make logical sense, they will fall in line. Most people think prostitution is wrong, calling the girl a victim, we know this is more often not the case. Nazis scapegoated all Jews, we know that the average Jew had no part in the economics state of 1920's Germany. Most Trumpers, prostitution opponents, 1930's Germans are / were not crazy. Yet, herd mentality allows bullshit beliefs to propagate. Digital technology just makes it that much easier.

[Mursenary]

If you do at all you must not just read the history books, you must think. People who caused the greatest destruction in the world did it out of greed and / or lust for power. Their utterances were concocted to achieve their ends, they did not actually believe what they were saying. Do not digress, we are not talking about mathematics and science, we are talking about history, or perhaps you learnt world history in mathematics class. So called objective truth regarding human behavior is subjective opinion.

I believe that you are speaking about the leaders while the previous poster had the followers in mind. The oligarchies and autocratic figures throughout history probably knew better but the fools that follow them probably actually believed the bogus conspiracy theories. What's happening in America at the moment is a prime example, 1930's Germany another. It's just more reinforcement that the masses are bored and intellectually lazy which makes them proned to be sold these crockpot theories.

[Pistons]

https://youtu.be/PZP16RxSvWE

1:46.

[Turgid]

More oppression and carnage in this world has resulted from people who sincerely believed falsehoods than anything else. Looks like you were napping in history class. Also hyper relativism, though a popuar fad at present is horseshit. Objective truth exists, and is commonly found in mathematics, the natural sciences, and in historical facts that can be readily established. There's also other examples.

Those who believe the current Covid conspiracy theories are typically sincere. And they never listen the other side because they are inoculated, are told that those who offer such contrary information are the bad guys.

If you do at all you must not just read the history books, you must think. People who caused the greatest destruction in the world did it out of greed and / or lust for power. Their utterances were concocted to achieve their ends, they did not actually believe what they were saying. Do not digress, we are not talking about mathematics and science, we are talking about history, or perhaps you learnt world history in mathematics class. So called objective truth regarding human behavior is subjective opinion.

[Mursenary]

We belong to a monger subculture, yes, but I do not really see us as marginalized, other than our hobby not being universally legal. Do people on marijuana forums also pin the blame on an enemy, like a lot of us here blame the feminists? Isn't P6 difficult to find (or illegal) in most Muslim countries? Those places aren't known feminist strongholds. To me, mongering is something between a hobby and lifestyle. But I do not believe I am on this righteous path. Or that I am somehow more enlightened, and everyone else is a brainwashed, blue piller who fell for the deception of marriage.

Wouldn't you have to convince the population to agree on a "greater common good" in the first place? British and Americans made sacrifices during WWII. No social media back then.

Like Mursenary stated, Internet allows anyone to have a platform. A few decades ago, you had a few TV channels, and an oligarchy of influencers and gatekeepers (newscasters, Hollywood studios).

Well you are right in that mongering is not marginalized as it was never in the boundary of play to begin with. Being a marginalized subculture requires a nominal degree of mainstream acceptance. In our present culture, mongering is outright excluded from the get-go. For most, mongering is not a subculture, but for people who post on these forums frequently, it is on the fringe of a subculture in their (our) own realities.

In the past, British-American (western) causes were cemented into mainstream culture perhaps due to lack of a plurality of dissenting positions.

[Pessimist]

We belong to a monger subculture, yes, but I do not really see us as marginalized, other than our hobby not being universally legal. Do people on marijuana forums also pin the blame on an enemy, like a lot of us here blame the feminists? Isn't P6 difficult to find (or illegal) in most Muslim countries? Those places aren't known feminist strongholds. To me, mongering is something between a hobby and lifestyle. But I do not believe I am on this righteous path. Or that I am somehow more enlightened, and everyone else is a brainwashed, blue piller who fell for the deception of marriage.


Like Mursenary stated, Internet allows anyone to have a platform. A few decades ago, you had a few TV channels, and an oligarchy of influencers and gatekeepers (newscasters, Hollywood studios).

People who feel left behind may be more susceptible to radicalisation. Part of this is the fact that wages across the Western world for working class people have been stagnant for decades. Millennials graduated into the financial crisis in 2008 and now they are facing a second economic crisis.

"But I do not believe I am on this righteous path. Or that I am somehow more enlightened, and everyone else is a brainwashed, blue piller who fell for the deception of marriage".

There is NO righteous path or a wrong path. It is a personal choice. How is a personal choice about sex life supposed to indicate anything Re: enlightenment of that person? That is one kooky theory. Not that you advocated it. I am married and it works for me in some ways; I am cheating and it is my personal choice. I don't claim to be enlightened or depraved or whatever, and my choice is none of any other people's business either. Just like what other mongers or even non-mongers do in their life is not my concern.

Mongers are definitely not marginalized. That is just a victimhood complex, I guess these days everyone wants to imagine himself as a victim. First of all if someone is able to monger consistently, it indicates that man has sufficient economic means. Hardly a sign of a marginalized person in society. Secondly, yeah, you can't have everything you want in life. A country definitely has a right to compose and enforce its own laws, including laws on prostitution. If you are a citizen and those laws suck for you, as they do for me in my homeland of US, tough luck. Could be much worse. I could be a Chinese dood and not have many personal freedoms, A Uighur and not able to walk across the street w / o being tracked by the Commie Chinese govt or a woman born in a Moslem nation like Afghanistan / Saudi Arabia / Pakistan Etc. Now, THOSE are marginalized. Not a man with a good job in the western societies plush with Enough cash to fuck 6 girls per night in Oase.

As for internet and radicalization, etc. Internet and social media may be amplifying and accelerating some trends but if one is so easily inclined to readily subscribe to crazy conspiracy theories, I would not be rationalizing their craziness by blaming it on technology. This goes back to the victimhood complex, or others wanting to see victims when there are only crazies. For instance, this QAnon stuff. Apparently a whole bunch of people believe a guy called Q will come up as a messiah and clean up this world. This bunch also believes some really weird stuff per media reports, including that Bill Gates is a vampire And drinks children's blood or that Bill Gates wants to put a chip in everybody and control them and so on. Occasionally, I see one of these guys even post in WSJ comments, and it is a publication where the average subscriber has an annual income of $160,000. Hardly someone that you would call marginalized or left behind. My point: if someone is crazy enough to jettison common sense and a rational brain and subscribe to obviously outlandish and bizarre ideas, it is because that person is crazy and not because of technology or this and that.

P.S. Thank you very much, Mr. Paulie97.

[Pistons]

1. The term conspiracy theories was coined by an international pr agency in order to reduce the impact of theories considered harmful for well integrated PR agencies. Who gets paid for their work of course.

2. There is no deep state. Just people doing everything they can in their own field of work to earn as much money as possible.

3. Mursenary is right about one thing. The polarization on the internet. This is called red feed. Blue feed. That term would save you 8 sentences. Phrases and terms like this is very useful and even the usage of terms and phrases in all fields of study is also a rhetorical way of implying an order of knowledge. And psychologically most people buy into this. Thus another very important thing in the pr industry is to always coin new phrases and terms.

4. Everything you read is subjective ideas from some random point of view. Especially news reports due to the choices they make in picking the news, and rewriting it before publishing it.

5. Red feed. Blue feed is as much a result of monetization and internet algorithms as much as smaller islands of individuals finding like-minded on a large WWW.

6. The internet is an evolution humanity would have go through inevitably anyway. And the ironing out of democracy in our new information age is not a sign of deterioration, but of a new paradigm where information is free. Lack of humanity's education level is however the one big obstacle. Because right now, most, if not all people in this world is not smart enough to evaluate everything we read or hear in this new way of life.

7. Selfishness and lack of abundance due to capitalism is the base problem causing people to lie in order to get an upper hand. Machiavellian ideas are just a result of such. (How the prince can fool his people). Besides Niccolo Machiavelli is a pronounced author and one of the most important names within political statehood, and that field of study. So if anyone believes there are no such policies in this world, then good lord they don't know much!

[McAdonis]

"People who feel powerless may also endorse conspiracy theories as they also help the individual avoid blame for their predicament. In this sense, conspiracy theories give a sense of meaning, security and control".

"Due to these individuals feeling alienated from their peers, they may also turn to conspiracist groups for a sense of belonging and community, or to marginalized subcultures. " -side note, participants in this hobby and thus this forum probably also fall under the marginalized subculture group making it more likely that you'll run into the psychological subgroup being discussed.

We belong to a monger subculture, yes, but I do not really see us as marginalized, other than our hobby not being universally legal. Do people on marijuana forums also pin the blame on an enemy, like a lot of us here blame the feminists? Isn't P6 difficult to find (or illegal) in most Muslim countries? Those places aren't known feminist strongholds. To me, mongering is something between a hobby and lifestyle. But I do not believe I am on this righteous path. Or that I am somehow more enlightened, and everyone else is a brainwashed, blue piller who fell for the deception of marriage.

And selfish. Self sacrifice is not a popular western practice. A little individual inconvenience for a greater common good seems to be asking too much for most western societies, particularly those of the British-American persuasion.

Wouldn't you have to convince the population to agree on a "greater common good" in the first place? British and Americans made sacrifices during WWII. No social media back then.

In my view, the weirdly political reactions to Corona in the west are concerning signs that our democratic systems are fraying at the edges. A strong democracy needs a mature and informed and rational population and some of the recent discussions in our society suggest that we have reasons to be concerned for sustainability of this.

Like Mursenary stated, Internet allows anyone to have a platform. A few decades ago, you had a few TV channels, and an oligarchy of influencers and gatekeepers (newscasters, Hollywood studios).

People who feel left behind may be more susceptible to radicalisation. Part of this is the fact that wages across the Western world for working class people have been stagnant for decades. Millennials graduated into the financial crisis in 2008 and now they are facing a second economic crisis.

How Many Americans Believe In Conspiracy Theories?

And while 40% of younger Americans believe the true rulers of the world are the superrich, only 24% of older Americans support this view.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2020/06/29/how-many-americans-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/#311300195e94.

[Paulie97]

In the end all views are subjective. One person's tried and tested theory may be another's conspiracy theory. In the long run what is required is honesty. People who are false and know that they are false are the greatest threat to the world.

More oppression and carnage in this world has resulted from people who sincerely believed falsehoods than anything else. Looks like you were napping in history class. Also hyper relativism, though a popuar fad at present is horseshit. Objective truth exists, and is commonly found in mathematics, the natural sciences, and in historical facts that can be readily established. There's also other examples.

Those who believe the current Covid conspiracy theories are typically sincere. And they never listen the other side because they are inoculated, are told that those who offer such contrary information are the bad guys.

[Turgid]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a pejorative duck.

In a way, the advent of internet communication hinders a strong democracy. I don't think that western society, on average, has become less informed over the years, how could it? Information is more readily available. The problem is your latter condition, intellectual maturity. Digital communication has created many platforms in which people who share similar agendas can congregate and disseminate information, misinformation, or bias information, thus creating an environment that fosters pack / herd mentality. It's so much easier these days to form factions or coalitions because false information or flawed thought processes can spread so much quicker without being properly vetted. Unfortunately, people seem to quickly grasp to ideas that either quickly align with their prior thought process or in recent discussion here, sexy sounding conspiracy theories that may make one feel special or uniquely enlightened. It's all due to laziness of thought and unwillingness to individually vet the data and form one's own thought process. It has been my experience which is reinforced time and time again, that when intellectually challenged, people will always follow the path that requires the least amount of brainpower and personal reckoning.

In the end all views are subjective. One person's tried and tested theory may be another's conspiracy theory. In the long run what is required is honesty. People who are false and know that they are false are the greatest threat to the world.