Bangkok Reports

[Tomasb]

Very informative. Thanks for taking the trouble. Your last paragraph from your response confirms what I thought. This explains why the Mamasan at Billboard was insisting the price for Short Time was 3000 rather than the 2000 that the girl initially quoted to me.

I have also thought about slipping my Line ID or Thai number to a girl in these go-go's but not sure they would bother calling me for the extra 1,500 or so I would save and they might earn direct from me — BF 500 and the difference between short time 3000 and 2000 bhat fee. Let say, I told the girl that I would pay her 2500 for short time if she called me outside the bar. (Call or text me when she is available). At most go go's, it would cost me 700 to 1000 bhat for the bar fine plus the extra savings from a reduction in her fee through this private arrangement, which would go to the bar. In US currency that is $50, which adds up over time.

A few years ago (so keep in mind that things may have changed in the last few years), I asked a girl I was seeing semi-regularly about the economics of gogo bars. Here's what she said:

1. Girls get a flat salary, depending on their seniority and popularity. She was on 19,000 baht per month.

She did tell me, though, that the reason she worked at that particular gogo bar (Baccara, by the way) was because they had this particular structure. She said in other bars, girls had to kick back half of the payment for ST / LT, which she found overly exploitative. But keep in mind this is 3rd hand information (I. E. , she never worked in such an establishment), and this is a couple of years old. Maybe someone has more recent info.

[Kumbu]

I am curious whether or not it has ever been discussed if the fee negotiated between the punter and the girl for short or long time ends up partially back in the pocket of the bar owner? I sometimes wonder if these bars are charging the girl a flat fee of 500 bhat or some other amount from their proceeds. So if the girl is telling you her fee is say 3000 for short time, she is required to pay the bar owner a certain amount for the 'privelege' of leaving the bar. Of course, this is in addition to the bar fine we pay direct to the bar / mamasan...

A few years ago (so keep in mind that things may have changed in the last few years), I asked a girl I was seeing semi-regularly about the economics of gogo bars. Here's what she said:

1. Girls get a flat salary, depending on their seniority and popularity. She was on 19,000 baht per month.

2. Girls are required to hit a certain number of bar fines per month. The exact number depends on the girl, so newbies start slow, but work their way up. She was an experienced one, and so her target number was 25. If she came in under that number, she had to pay the owner some amount for each missing bar fine. I can't remember how much, but I think it was 300 baht per missing BF.

3. They got 6 days off per month, but could buy each day out by paying their own BF. But they could only do so much of that before they got skunk-eye from mamasan, especially if they had not hit their monthly targets already.

4. Girls had to hit a minimum number of LDs per month, depending on seniority. She was on 50 LDs per month. Again, for each LD they are short, they owe the owner a certain amount. But they made 50 baht for each LD they sell. This of course incentivizes them to stay in the gogo bar to sell more LDs, or to do ST so they can rush back and sell more LDs.

5. Girls got to keep the entirety of the ST / LT fee. They were under no obligation to do ST or LT. That was up to them. But of course, the economics of it incentivizes ST, since a girl can do 3-4 STs in one night and just crank through to hit the minimum BF number. And that's what this girl did: she would work for 2 weeks, get something like 30-35 BFs (all ST, except with me. Or so she said. . .), 200-300 LDs, and then take 1-2 weeks off to be with her kid. She gladly paid the BF for the 1-2 weeks she took off, since she could afford it quite handily.

So doing the math. . . 19000 + (30 x 2000 baht, the then-ST rate =) 60000 + (200 x 50 baht for LDs =) 10000 = 89000 per month. That's rock-star money for a girl from Isaan, or for most Thai people, to be honest. And that doesn't include tips, or the I-take-care-you money from schmucks from abroad. She had regular Skype sessions each afternoon with three such gents. I wish I could have warned them, but I did not want to mess with her livelihood.

She did tell me, though, that the reason she worked at that particular gogo bar (Baccara, by the way) was because they had this particular structure. She said in other bars, girls had to kick back half of the payment for ST / LT, which she found overly exploitative. But keep in mind this is 3rd hand information (I. E. , she never worked in such an establishment), and this is a couple of years old. Maybe someone has more recent info.

[Pointy Stick]

No. Because Thais who never interact with foreigners at all do it frequently too.

They do it because of poor self esteem reinforced by a distorted culture.

What percentage of Thai who have never interacted with foreigners have plastic surgery?

Most people in the west have poor self esteem hence the popularity of over-priced brand label clothes and bags, expensive vehicles and prestigious careers which are shit but give employees ego-boosts in change for giving away their lives. When they can't get those things they turn to substance abuse or fanatically supporting a sports team to vicariously bask in their victories. Same same but different.

[Banana Boi]

How about cosplay? I can't find anything similar to the image clubs, but some massage places claim to offer dress-up and roleplay. Kiss Massage and Bangkok Passion, etc. Or should I try Thanon Thaniya for this kind of thing?

Buy some cosplay outfits you like. Pick up a Thai girl and barfine them under the condition they will dress up in your cosplay outfit. That seems to be the most direct way to get what you're looking for. Try the Thermae girls and from Japanese oriented gogo bars I'm sure they have had requests like these before.

[Tomasb]

I am curious whether or not it has ever been discussed if the fee negotiated between the punter and the girl for short or long time ends up partially back in the pocket of the bar owner? I sometimes wonder if these bars are charging the girl a flat fee of 500 bhat or some other amount from their proceeds. So if the girl is telling you her fee is say 3000 for short time, she is required to pay the bar owner a certain amount for the 'privelege' of leaving the bar. Of course, this is in addition to the bar fine we pay direct to the bar / mamasan.

This scenario might account for the increasingly high amounts being asked by the girls in the bars for their services because they have to cover some of this additional overhead so to speak — A kick back in other words. I guess one would think someone would have blown the whistle on this type of activity already but interested if any punters have heard anything about this.

I think of this in terms of when you go to a restaurant that adds ten percent service fee to a bill plus the tax. As most of us know, that ten percent rarely goes to the servers but straight into the owners pocket. If you want to tip a server for good service make sure it is in cash. Oops, I digress.

[IMembr]

Silicon Valley is a subset of American culture (which is unique and unusual compared to Asia especially). We're talking about Chinamen, Korean, Japanese. They're from societies where status, face, wealth are extremely important. They don't miss an opportunity to rub wealth in someone's face. Without other information, I'm going to guess that the Asian sex tourist in his $5 t-shirt from Phuket, flip flops, cheap man bag he picked up along Sukhumvit wrapped around his shoulder has far less money than the white guy with the $50 t-shirt, $200 jeans.

This is the whole point. It's old white retirees on fixed incomes complaining about the increase in prices, bars being less fun. They're competing against Chinamen, Koreans in the prime of their working lives..

For the 1st section, it's really easy to see, regardless of race / ethnicity, that a person who wears authentic name brand clothing will be targeted by a mamasan than one who does not. This has less to do with race than it does whether the individual has money or not. With that said, it's obvious that the gogo bars are catering more to the Asians than ever before because they spend. Whether you want to focus on their clothes or not is up to you. The money being spent proves otherwise.

Also, you are all over the place here with your reply. In the first section, you say you're not impressed by the Asians. In the second part, now it's a sob story about ex-pats who have to compete against the Asians. The middle class is expanding in Asia which brings more disposable income. Again, this is another EASY concept. Posting GDP per capita means zero here because those millions of farmers dragging down the GDP per capita aren't the ones who are showing up in Thailand but that expanding middle class from the cities are. If the Asians and later other ethnic groups from other countries come to visit the gogo bars and spend money, hopefully it keeps the gogo bars in business so that it remains still an alternative. The ex-pat who had previously had a life where not a lot of money was made and went to Thailand to stretch that savings was always destined to be priced out. Those who whine about the old days being cheaper and how it's more expensive today, well, probably should've made better financial decisions earlier in life. There are plenty of other ex-pats and other old farangs who saved well, earned a good living before and still monger like it was 10 years ago. But we hear about the old farang wishing for the "good old days" because that guy can't play as much as before.

Money is now more spread out and accessible. With that, a variety of people will come. That's just the reality.

[IMembr]

Old farang chase Issan girls because every woman is supposedly fat and overbearing back home.

What's the excuse for a young Korean man. Young Korean women are good looking (they make good hookers the world over). These young wealthy Koreans don't need to be in Angeles City bars at 10 am.

Plenty of young anything the world over. You're not making any point. Going to BKK, Pattaya, Angeles City, Germany, Costa Rica, the Dominican, and Brazil has a bunch of cheap good looking women. An Asian guy coming from Korea, China, or Japan to Thailand has a short plane ride. The white trash over at the German FKKs are cheap too but further. If one is from the US, making a trip to the Latin countries is an easy trip. It's far cheaper to monger in Thailand than in Korea while making a holiday of it which doesn't take a genius to figure out.

[Rick Rock]

I'm confused. If they're having surgery to make themselves look less Issan isn't this to make themselves more attractive to the East Asian market?

No. Because Thais who never interact with foreigners at all do it frequently too.

They do it because of poor self esteem reinforced by a distorted culture.

[Rick Rock]

Went to Crazy House. Incredibly loud and unpleasant atmosphere. Great looking fully nude girls, but I feel like I risked permanent hearing loss from the ridiculously loud music. Couldn't talk with the girls either. Picked a girl, and tried to BF her, and mamasan demanded full payment of BF and girl's money (3700 total, I believe) up front. I said no. BF now, girl's money "after". No deal. Mamasan looked mad and walked away, so I finished my beer and left for Nana and Billboard..

Good job!

That place is becoming a real bad spot atmosphere wise. They treat customers like shit.

Good on you for leaving.

[Kumbu]

Here are some more impressions from Bangkok experiences:

Daytime activities...

Evening activities:...

...In summary, my best experiences were Analisa during the day and Billboard in the evening.

Super report PT, appreciate the intel. I think your reviews of both the good places (Analisa, Billboard) and the not-so-good places (along with the pricing info) are very useful. Thanks for contributing.

[ShinyCrazy]

Here are some more impressions from Bangkok experiences:

Daytime activities:

Went to Snow White once. Tried "Audi". Had very minor baby belly, good attitude, with DFK, anal, prostate massage, 2 pops in one hour for 1900 total. Price at desk was usual 400/ HR for oil massage. Had to ask for full service price, which was 1500 extra. Unlikely to repeat due to overall age of girls and facilities.

Went to DokiDoki once. Nice clean new facility. Pretty girls. Would repeat.

Went to Analisa twice. Great experience. Tried the 4 hand oil massage with prostate massage on the "milking table" with two slim young pretty girls for 2800.2 pops in one hour.

Evening activities:

Went to Crazy House. Incredibly loud and unpleasant atmosphere. Great looking fully nude girls, but I feel like I risked permanent hearing loss from the ridiculously loud music. Couldn't talk with the girls either. Picked a girl, and tried to BF her, and mamasan demanded full payment of BF and girl's money (3700 total, I believe) up front. I said no. BF now, girl's money "after". No deal. Mamasan looked mad and walked away, so I finished my beer and left for Nana and Billboard.

Took three different girls at Billboard on different evenings. BF 700, girl 3000ST. All three girls with great attitudes, plenty of DFK, DATY, enthusiasm. Arranged middle ground between ST and LT with one girl: 2 pops over 3 hours for 4000, included prostate massage and BBBJ. Overall, had great experiences at Billboard. Usually tried Angelwitch, Rainbow 4, Butterflies first, but always ended up BFing a girl Billboard.

In summary, my best experiences were Analisa during the day and Billboard in the evening.

[Pointy Stick]

Simply not true. Almost all the gals in the GoGos are from Isaan. Most are having surgery to make them look less Isaan. I see young Asian guys with gals I would not touch if they were on fire. I have also seen some young Korean dudes in Tulip taking some of the older women there, and not just on one occasion. I found that rather shocking.

I'm confused. If they're having surgery to make themselves look less Issan isn't this to make themselves more attractive to the East Asian market?

[Chacal60]

Totally agree. Plus, the retiree who still has some lead in his pencil and is interested in more than just a one-time shag is more attractive to the single mom with a high libido in search of a "good heart" who just happens to also help her pay the bills.

I don't try to compete with the younger, high rollers. I outlast them.

Well, you are kind of missing the point. When most of the "old guys" started coming here and decided to move here, a good percentage of the guys in the bars were expats on very generous packages. They had a lot of disposable income. Way more than the weekend warriors or two week millionaires that we see in the bars today. And guess what? They were not showering the gals with ridiculous money. In fact, some were the first to tell the newbie to pay the going rate and not to inflate the prices. I think this is the common amongst most Westerners no matter what their bankroll is. Asian culture is of course different. Bragging as to how much money you spent is a part of the game for many Asians. Just look at the success of luxury brands in Asia. Same holds true with their approach to P4 P gals. The retirees in Bangkok I know, can't speak for Pattaya, could pay whatever they wanted to for a gal; but they (we) don't. Because they don't see value in paying 150 USD plus for a wham bam ST. And neither do I.

[Robert Long]

Well, you are kind of missing the point. When most of the "old guys" started coming here and decided to move here, a good percentage of the guys in the bars were expats on very generous packages. They had a lot of disposable income. Way more than the weekend warriors or two week millionaires that we see in the bars today. And guess what? They were not showering the gals with ridiculous money. In fact, some were the first to tell the newbie to pay the going rate and not to inflate the prices. I think this is the common amongst most Westerners no matter what their bankroll is. Asian culture is of course different. Bragging as to how much money you spent is a part of the game for many Asians. Just look at the success of luxury brands in Asia. Same holds true with their approach to P4 P gals. The retirees in Bangkok I know, can't speak for Pattaya, could pay whatever they wanted to for a gal; but they (we) don't. Because they don't see value in paying 150 USD plus for a wham bam ST. And neither do I.

I, like George Carlin, would rather fuck 10 2's at 1500 baht than 1 10 at 8000 baht, who will file her nails until you finish. I've had both and the prima donnas are not worth it.

RL.

[Goatscrot]

This is the whole point. It's old white retirees on fixed incomes complaining about the increase in prices, bars being less fun. They're competing against Chinamen, Koreans in the prime of their working lives.

A young man in the prime of his working life should have far more disposable income than a retiree who doesn't know whether he needs to stretch his money for 5 years or 20 years.

White retirees trying to make their money stretch for 20 years is not reflective of middle-class disposable income in Western countries.

Well, you are kind of missing the point. When most of the "old guys" started coming here and decided to move here, a good percentage of the guys in the bars were expats on very generous packages. They had a lot of disposable income. Way more than the weekend warriors or two week millionaires that we see in the bars today. And guess what? They were not showering the gals with ridiculous money. In fact, some were the first to tell the newbie to pay the going rate and not to inflate the prices. I think this is the common amongst most Westerners no matter what their bankroll is. Asian culture is of course different. Bragging as to how much money you spent is a part of the game for many Asians. Just look at the success of luxury brands in Asia. Same holds true with their approach to P4 P gals. The retirees in Bangkok I know, can't speak for Pattaya, could pay whatever they wanted to for a gal; but they (we) don't. Because they don't see value in paying 150 USD plus for a wham bam ST. And neither do I.